Question regarding Metronome [Item]

[Demoncleaner]

Does the item Metronome (the one that boosts moves that are used multiple times in a row) strengthen each hit of a move that hits multiple times, like Spike Cannon or Triple Kick? I looked it up in the Smogon database and it said that it only increases damage each time the move is executed, not whenever the move hits (ie moves like Outrage will only increase in power when selected again, not when the move requires three turns to use). However, I put a Metronome on a Hitmontop with Triple Kick and started testing it out, and it seems like each successive kick is doing way more damage than it should - while the first, second, and third kicks should each deal 10, 20, and 30 base power respectively, the damage between each kick is more than doubling, which makes me think the Metronome is definitely coming into play here. That could potentially be very powerful, between Hitmontop's STAB and the ability Technician...

The other reason I bring this up is because Cloyster's ability Skill Link could allow a move like Icicle Spear or Spike Cannon to hit that double-damage cap on the Metronome very quickly, allowing Cloyster to deal very good damage while walling physical attacks. I'm pretty sure that the game registers Triple Kick as three seperate attacks and Spike Cannon as multiple hits of the same attack, but I'm not sure on this. Does anyone else have any insight?

 

[AJC]

No Metronome only boosts per time a move is selected in a row not when a move is performed.

IE rollout gets boosted by 1.1x the next time its selected after it runs its course the first time instead of it getting boosted every time it moves.

The boost doesn't get triggered with multi hit moves unless the multi hit move is selected again in a row.

like this

Rollout picked 1.0
Rollout runs it course
Rollout picked again 1.1
Roollout runs it course

this belongs in simple question though.

 

[Articanus]

You use a move, its x1
use it again, 1.1
again, 1.2
keeps it up till 2x

 

[Kijin]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40647

Your question is more suited here, like most all specific yet very simple questions.

 

[Demoncleaner]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40647

Your question is more suited here, like most all specific yet very simple questions.

Thanks for the link.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

This wasn't tested with Triple Kick, so it's conceivable that Metronome increases with each kick. I doubt it, though. If it doesn't work with Rollout or Spike Cannon, I don't think it'll work with Triple Kick.

 

[Resist]

Triple Kick as defined by Smogon, has 3 seperate Kicks, so it is unique in that sense, which is why Metronome is great with perhaps that ONE SPECIFIC MOVE.

And it even differentiates between Icicle Spear and Triple kick saying that Skill Link would not guarantee Triple Kick to hit 3x.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/triple_kick

 

[Kagster123]

i always wondered if a metronome/brine set could be effective >_>

 

[Resist]

Same with Avalanche and Revenge, etc.

Wonder how it would work with the following abilties increasing the Base Power of moves:

Blaze
Torrent
Swarm
Over Grow

or even Sunny Day/Rain Dance

(Say bye bye Life Orb on Kingdra, and Hello Metronome on Hydro Pump Kingdra!)

I notice however, that Metronome gets reset for your moves when the opponent switches out... SO be aware of that.

 

[Kagster123]

Interesting.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

I notice however, that Metronome gets reset for your moves when the opponent switches out... SO be aware of that.

You're kidding. How did you find that out?

 

[Demoncleaner]

This wasn't tested with Triple Kick, so it's conceivable that Metronome increases with each kick. I doubt it, though. If it doesn't work with Rollout or Spike Cannon, I don't think it'll work with Triple Kick.

I don't understand how Rollout and Spike Cannon are pulled into the same boat here. Is it because the game registers each hit of both attacks as part of one execution of the attack, regardless of how many actual hits it lands or turns it may take to stretch out?

Triple Kick as defined by Smogon, has 3 seperate Kicks, so it is unique in that sense, which is why Metronome is great with perhaps that ONE SPECIFIC MOVE.

And it even differentiates between Icicle Spear and Triple kick saying that Skill Link would not guarantee Triple Kick to hit 3x.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/triple_kick

Maybe some testing would be required here? I have a Level 60 Hitmontop with Technician and Triple Kick, so I'll go against beefy opponents and see if the damage steadily increases or not. It's hard to tell because the first kick is so weak (even with multipliers) and because it would take a little while for the multipliers to really make a difference:

Attack One (ignoring Technician, weakness/resistance, and STAB)
1st kick: 10 Power * 1 = 10 BP
2nd kick: 20 Power * 1.1 = 22 BP
3rd kick: 30 Power * 1.2 = 36 BP
Total BP for first attack: 68

Attack Two
1st kick: 10 Power * 1.3 = 13 BP
2nd Kick: 20 Power * 1.4 = 28 BP
3rd kick: 30 Power * 1.5 = 45 BP
Total BP for second attack: 86

Attack Three
1st kick: 10 Power * 1.6 = 16 BP
2nd kick: 20 Power * 1.7 = 34 BP
3rd kick: 30 Power * 1.8 = 54 BP
Total BP for third attack: 104

Attack Four
1st kick: 10 Power * 1.9 = 19 BP
2nd kick: 20 Power * 2.0 = 40 BP
3rd kick: 30 Power * 2.0 = 60 BP
Total BP for fourth attack: 119

Total BP for fifth attack and up: 120


While that's a pretty steady increase from one kick to the next (ignoring the fact that STAB and Technician would both kick in to boost those to 153, 193.5, 234, 267.75, and 270 respectively), that doesn't change the fact that each kick still only has a 90% chance to land, and, as Resist mentioned, Metronome does reset it's multipliers whenever an opponent switches (which screws the point of the whole thing right there). Plus, if the game registers each seperate kick as a seperate hit with it's own accuracy, wouldn't that mean every time you miss a kick in a move (even if you land the first kick and the move lands), the Metronome multiplier would be reset? A Wide Lense would really help, but obviously defeat the purpose...

Even so, all of that is speculative so far, and regardless of any of that, Triple Kick would just barely start out-damaging a STABbed Close Combat come the second turn, where 2 Close Combats in a row would already have done more combined damage.

EDIT: Maybe Triple Kick could be a potential weapon for defensive / bulkier Hitmontops? He does have much better defenses than either of his Hitmon- counterparts, and having the potential to hit even harder than Close Combat without losing defenses does sound pretty sweet. Plus there's Agility to keep it fast, Aerial Ace w/Technician for type coverage and great damage vs. accuracy, and then something like Rock Slide or Pursuit to deal with Flying types and Psychic types respectively.

 

[Kagster123]

Same with Avalanche and Revenge, etc.

Wonder how it would work with the following abilties increasing the Base Power of moves:

Blaze
Torrent
Swarm
Over Grow

or even Sunny Day/Rain Dance

(Say bye bye Life Orb on Kingdra, and Hello Metronome on Hydro Pump Kingdra!)

I notice however, that Metronome gets reset for your moves when the opponent switches out... SO be aware of that.

I just noticed, and maybe empoleon can use agility/brine with metronome. With torrent it can be really deadly

 

[Resist]

Think about how long it would survive if at 33% or less to activate Torrent... Not for very long...

Also, consider if Petaya Berry is better over all.

Perhaps something already fast and benefits from Weather : Ie; Kingdra, and to think about it, Rain Dance replaces the need for Torrent.

Hehe perhaps on a Rain/Rest Manaphy!

Rain Dance/Rest/Surf/Ice Beam

You keep up your instant full heal with Rest under Hydration, so you don't need Leftovers, and you power up your moves!

Rain Dance makes up for lack of Torrent.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

@Resist: Seriously, how do you know that the Metronome boost resets when the opponent switches. That sounds dubious to me. What if you're using Earthquake in a Double Battle? Does it reset when any target switches, including your partner? Does it reset when all of the original targets have left, or only if they all switch at once?

Although it could be the case that the boost resets when the target switches, this is the first I've heard of it and it seems odd to me. Have you tested this yourself?

 

[Resist]

Yes, that is how I know... WHy else would I have said so?

Doubles aren't available on Shoddy, so I don't know, but perhaps YOU can test that, however I am using logic to say that if it hits your opponents, lets say both, then it gets a 10% boost from each, and then an additional 10% from your partner. If you use it again the next turn and your teamamte switches, I am guessing it will be reset, but still activate once more by 10% again for each of your opponents hit by it, otherwise it may end up simply resetting to each specific target (it would reset against your partner whom switched out, but keep the initial 20% from the first round against your opponents)

If you have attitude towards me have the facts to back it up, at least I do for the Single battles.

Otherwise you can blame shoddy and say it has a bug, but I doubt that.

 

[obi]

Shoddybattle is never a source of information. They code whatever we as a community have found to be true. They don't have any secret information.

As for Triple Kick + Metronome, I asked about this earlier (and apparently added it to the first post), but I must have accidentally deleted it because I can't find any testing.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=564813

 

[X-Act]

Testing on Shoddy is irrelevant. You need to test things on the games to be sure of something.

This is something that definitely warrants testing in-game.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

If you have attitude towards me have the facts to back it up, at least I do for the Single battles.

Sorry, man. I'm not taking an issue with you. I was just asking how you knew because I didn't want to have to test it. I was hoping you'd done some exhaustive test in-game or seen it on the research page or something. Since you're getting your info from Shoddy, now we have to test it in-game.

Otherwise you can blame shoddy and say it has a bug, but I doubt that.

I found this hilarious. Shoddy has numerous bugs. There's a reason it's called 'Shoddy Battle'. In general, the less an item or move is used, the more likely it is to be buggy, sometimes because people haven't discovered it yet and sometimes because nobody feels it's worth the time to fix it.

 

[Demoncleaner]

I'm still testing this out; at the moment I'm looking for Pokemon in-game that can take a lot of Triple Kicks so I can tell whether or not each attack (each kick) is noticably increasing in damage. This is difficult because my Hitmontop is EV'd in attack, is Adamant natured, was bred for IVs, etc. and not very many in-game Pokes can take more than a couple of hits. Any one else have any results, or maybe suggestions to Pokemon in-game that I can consistently test this on (ie wild Pokes or VS Seeker combatible trainers)?

 

[Resist]

Try 4x resistant pokemon: Crobat/Scyther/Venemoth, etc.

Crobat/Zubat/Golbat are pretty common in most Pokemon games.

 

[cim]

No, you actually want Blissey so you can get a huge, accurate damage reading to test with. you don't want resists. use potions or something if you have to. Rest Hariyama is probably your best shot.

 

[obi]

Find a double battle trainer and target your ally.

 

[RBG]

Judging by the results of this test, I am going to have to say no, metronome does not increase after every individual triple kick.

Hitmontop - Lv 49, 109 Att, Technician, Metronome
Blissey - Lv 100, 107 Def, Leftovers
vs. Pachirsu trainer

Turn 1:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:667 - 647 == 20
Pt 2:647 - 611 == 36
Pt 3:611 - 555 == 56

Turn 2:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 649 == 20
Pt 2:649 - 607 == 42
Pt 3:(Hit two times!)

Turn 3:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 651 == 18
Pt 2:651 - 609 == 42
Pt 3:609 - 553 == 56

Turn 4:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 649 == 20
Pt 2:649 - 607 == 42
Pt 3:607 - 545 == 62

Turn 5:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 643 == 26
Pt 2:643 - 595 == 49
Pt 3:595 - 527 == 68

Turn 6:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 643 == 26
Pt 2:643 - 589 == 54
Pt 3:589 - 505 == 84

Turn 7:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 637 == 32
Pt 2:637 - 581 == 56
Pt 3:581 - 503 == 78

Turn 8:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 637 == 32
Pt 2:637 - 577 == 60
Pt 3:577 - 491 == 86

Turn 9:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 637 == 32
Pt 2:637 - 571 == 66
Pt 3:571 - 481 == 90

Turn 10:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:(Attack Missed!)

Turn 11:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:667 - 631 == 36
Pt 2:631 - 559 == 72
Pt 3:559 - 461 == 98

Turn 12:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 633 == 36
Pt 2:633 - 565 == 68
Pt 3:(Hit 2 Times!)

Turn 13:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 631 == 38
Pt 2:631 - 481 == 150(Critical hit!)
Pt 3:481 - 377 == 104

Turn 14:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:(Attack Missed!)

Turn 15:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:(Attack Missed!)

Turn 16:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:669 - 627 == 42
Pt 2:627 - 549 == 78
Pt 3:549 - 441 == 108

Turn 17:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:480 - 438 == 42
Pt 2:438 - 358 == 80
Pt 3:358 - 244 == 114

Turn 18:
Triple Kick
Pt 1:618 - 576 == 42
Pt 2:576 - 496 == 80
Pt 3:496 - 380 == 116

 

[Mekkah]

Awesome job testing. Two comments though:

Turn 7 & 8:
Pt 1:669 - 637 == 32

Turn 9:
Pt 1:669 - 637 == 31

I'd correct that.

Also, you can prevent misses by using Sweet Scent on the Blissey beforehand with something else.