Resource Rain Discussion Thread (W4: Keldeo Competition)

[MANNAT]

SlaySlenderDragon XD To add on to what has already been said, niche mons in general should be omitted, and you should have niche mons missing rather than unnecessary mons because people can nominate mons to be added and we can discuss them as opposed to spend a bunch of time having to clean up the thread and clear away random stuff that you don't need, and I'm just going to give you a list of changes to do to try and fix your thread.

Good Cores: Move Mmane+Tornt and Klefki to offensive cores, remove chansey/blissey from the cores altogether as they aren't really worth a teamslot.

Viability Rankings: Just put in astroboy's thread and list a few mons that you think should be added as discussion points for people to talk about.

Roles: Remove Quagsire Rotom-W Goodra and Sab from rain setters, Remove Beartic from Swift swimmers (lol), Remove Quag from everything actually, Remove Forre from everything, and a lot of the mons in the roles section are missing sprites next to them, so you should probably get on that.

Topic of the Week: For this, you should post in the thread with a short post explaining the topic and link to it in the previous TotW archive in the OP so that people can browse through the discussion in case they're interested in any of these topics.

Contributers: This sections isn't really needed imo, but if you really want to include this, then you should try to include it in a hide tag.

Misc Stuf: In general, you should use hide tags a bit more to separate different sections of the thread, and if running this thread seems a bit too overwhelming to you, then I would be happy to take it over from you :]

 

[Take Azelfie]

I was testing out Chansey, Forretress, and Quagsire last night. My final conclusion
Forretress only has the advantage of Volt Switch and TSpikes and Rapid Spin (which I only pulled 1 off succesfully) REMOVED
Chansey was used a bulkier rain build which it was fine supporting the likes of Mega Pert (Later Mega Cross) and offensive Zapdos but I felt myself struggling to paralyze things like Keldeo which were a huge threat to the team and Physical Waters were dealing a hell of a lot to Chansey in the rain. There was one match against rain where Chansey was the all star being able to T-Wave everything but overall I could be using Slowbro or even Alomomola if I wanted to Wish Pass REMOVED
Quagsire was still a 50-50 I found him doing work half the games I played but the other half he was just a sacrifice. I'll go with everyone and say that Quagsire should be REMOVED.

 

[Martin]

FYI Uxie is totally legit on rain lol I'd argue its about as good as Moltres on it lol

Misc Stuf: In general, you should use hide tags a bit more to separate different sections of the thread

He uses a buttload of hide tags lol idk why u aren't seeing them

Anyway yea basically come to reitterate a lot of what other people have said; remove stall mons and try and be conservative on the inclusion of niche mons (Moltres+Uxie are fine but stuff like Mence, Forry and other overshadowed shit really need to go). I'm not gonna tell u how to run your own thread, but I'd say that the only unrankeds/Ds that warrant any ranking are as follows (no particular order)

• torn i
• uxie
• moltres
• ludicolo
• lanturn
• melo (mixmelo on rain is scary with its 100% accurate serene grace thunders+potential to relic song for a crispy 20% sleep rate after grace+ability to wreak house with pirouette)
  
• possibly heliolisk and cacturne
• possibly Shedinja (although this is more shaky than helio and cact)

maybe a few other mons i forgot but there can't be many lol

 

[MANNAT]

He uses a buttload of hide tags lol idk why u aren't seeing them

I'm talking about for the potential changes and roles thing as they both take up a bunch of space. Also, you should probably move the potential changes to the top and have them as discussion points, posting and changing that part every time that something new comes up.

I was testing out Chansey, Forretress, and Quagsire last night. My final conclusion
Forretress only has the advantage of Volt Switch and TSpikes and Rapid Spin (which I only pulled 1 off succesfully) REMOVED
Chansey was used a bulkier rain build which it was fine supporting the likes of Mega Pert (Later Mega Cross) and offensive Zapdos but I felt myself struggling to paralyze things like Keldeo which were a huge threat to the team and Physical Waters were dealing a hell of a lot to Chansey in the rain. There was one match against rain where Chansey was the all star being able to T-Wave everything but overall I could be using Slowbro or even Alomomola if I wanted to Wish Pass REMOVED
Quagsire was still a 50-50 I found him doing work half the games I played but the other half he was just a sacrifice. I'll go with everyone and say that Quagsire should be REMOVED.

Chansey is also still in the good cores

 

[Take Azelfie]

Should I not remove the descriptions of why the pokemon are in the roles section and just put 3 stars
EX. (I'm just stealing these sprites from LL)
3 Star

2 Star

3 Star

 

[MANNAT]

Should I not remove the descriptions of why the pokemon are in the roles section and just put 3 stars
EX. (I'm just stealing these sprites from LL)
3 Star

2 Star

3 Star

No, the description is important for people to understand how mons work on rain and better know how to integrate them into their rain teams.

 

[Take Azelfie]

No, the description is important for people to understand how mons work on rain and better know how to integrate them into their rain teams.

I just revamped offensive cores, I'm going to prioritize roles for now but if there are changes needed to be made or new offensive cores to be added please let me know (also I hope it seemed easy to tell how I organized these making it somewhat convenient for people to see variations.

 

[Drop]

I just revamped offensive cores, I'm going to prioritize roles for now but if there are changes needed to be made or new offensive cores to be added please let me know (also I hope it seemed easy to tell how I organized these making it somewhat convenient for people to see variations.

You should probably throw out or significantly revise the two Lucario cores.

They have there niches in rain as well with one being immune to Water and the other not taking as much damage from fire type attacks.

This is from the first Luke core. Defensive synergy is kinda useless when you're talking about an offensive core with Lucario or Toxicroak.
And from the second core:

Aura Sphere hits Ferrothorn, Chansey, Blissey

Psychic [Lucario] hits Breloom, Mega Venusaur and Amoongus as well as some other fighting types that may try to switch in [to a Lucario] like Keldeo and a plethora of other coverage moves. This core cannot be shoved into most teams and is very situational to how the rest of your team covers Mega Swampert.

wat

Also for the Heliolisk + Torn-T core I'd recommend either dropping it altogether or emphasizing repeatedly throughout the entire description that 99.99% of the time Heliolisk is really bad when there are things like M-Manectric floating around.
One more edit that you should also make now that I've looked through the cores a bit more:
Omastar + Kabutops:

Omastar also has access to a rock typing allowing it to deal with Talonflame and Mega Pinsir a lot easier.

Kabutops checks both just fine anyways if rain is up. Make a note that Omastar has Shell Smash too, which is a (perhaps situational) tool that Kingdra and Kabutops lack.

 

[Take Azelfie]

You should probably throw out or significantly revise the two Lucario cores.

This is from the first Luke core. Defensive synergy is kinda useless when you're talking about an offensive core with Lucario or Toxicroak.
And from the second core:



wat

Also for the Heliolisk + Torn-T core I'd recommend either dropping it altogether or emphasizing repeatedly throughout the entire description that 99.99% of the time Heliolisk is really bad when there are things like M-Manectric floating around.
One more edit that you should also make now that I've looked through the cores a bit more:
Omastar + Kabutops:

Kabutops checks both just fine anyways if rain is up. Make a note that Omastar has Shell Smash too, which is a (perhaps situational) tool that Kingdra and Kabutops lack.

Thanks that helped out a lot

 

[Ramses]

Uhh Helioisk should probably be Low Ranked since other Electrics are often always a better choice.

Keldeo should probably go to high since it gets the Water-types STAB boost from Rain and can deal with things like Ferro for the rest of the rain team.

Could you like space out the sections of the OP, everything is way too close together.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Uhh Helioisk should probably be Low Ranked since other Electrics are often always a better choice.

Keldeo should probably go to high since it gets the Water-types STAB boost from Rain and can deal with things like Ferro for the rest of the rain team.

Could you like space out the sections of the OP, everything is way too close together.

I'll spread the sections out.

 

[MANNAT]

hey SlaySlenderDragon XD what is the second reserved post in the OPs for? If nothing then you should put the topic of the week there.

 

[Take Azelfie]

hey SlaySlenderDragon XD what is the second reserved post in the OPs for? If nothing then you should put the topic of the week there.

The second reserve space will be for sets (since there are a lot of pokemon and that will take up to many characters in the OP) I'll get to that after I finish off "Other Sweepers" and "Hazard Setters" in the roles section.

 

[MANNAT]

The second reserve space will be for sets (since there are a lot of pokemon and that will take up to many characters in the OP) I'll get to that after I finish off "Other Sweepers" and "Hazard Setters" in the roles section.

sets aren't really needed since people can just look up the sets in the smogon analysis's, you can link it in the OP if you want.

 

[Take Azelfie]

sets aren't really needed since people can just look up the sets in the smogon analysis's, you can link it in the OP if you want.

true, for now I think a link to the smogdex would be fine. I'll put the topic of the week in the second post. If people start coming up with sets that benefit from rain (for example maybe taking a Charizards X Flare Blitz in the rain after Stealth Rocks).

 

[Jaguar360]

sets aren't really needed since people can just look up the sets in the smogon analysis's, you can link it in the OP if you want.

Not sure if I agree with this tbh just because this is for rain. Some of the lower ranked Rain mons in particular like Moltres and Heliolisk don't have OU analyses and it might be difficult to newer players/rain users for which set is optimal to use. Then you also have some of the better Rain Pokemon that will still run different sets on Rain than on a standard OU team. This is particularly notable for potential Rain setters like Klefki, Tornadus (both formes, though Torn-I has a UU rain set), or Mew. I think a sets section would be really useful, personally.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Not sure if I agree with this tbh just because this is for rain. Some of the lower ranked Rain mons in particular like Moltres and Heliolisk don't have OU analyses and it might be difficult to newer players/rain users for which set is optimal to use. Then you also have some of the better Rain Pokemon that will still run different sets on Rain than on a standard OU team. This is particularly notable for potential Rain setters like Klefki, Tornadus (both formes, though Torn-I has a UU rain set), or Mew. I think a sets section would be really useful, personally.

I won't move the TotW section just yet, if spreads and sets are provided I will start including them.

 

[MANNAT]

Not sure if I agree with this tbh just because this is for rain. Some of the lower ranked Rain mons in particular like Moltres and Heliolisk don't have OU analyses and it might be difficult to newer players/rain users for which set is optimal to use. Then you also have some of the better Rain Pokemon that will still run different sets on Rain than on a standard OU team. This is particularly notable for potential Rain setters like Klefki, Tornadus (both formes, though Torn-I has a UU rain set), or Mew. I think a sets section would be really useful, personally.

can we have sets for pokemon that don't have rain specific sets in their smogon analysisis then?

 

[Take Azelfie]

can we have sets for pokemon that don't have rain specific sets in their smogon analysisis then?

yes, this means maybe calcing to see if X pokemon can take X hit in rain or if ones movepool improves in rain (ex. Like Roserade)

 

[Take Azelfie]

I'll keep the topic of the week up for another since it got no discussion and everyone was to focuesed on trying to help.
Also finished other sweepers section and now wroking on finishing hazard setters.

 

[MANNAT]

To be honest, most grass types on rain play similarly to how they usually do, they just benefit from the rain weakening fire moves that would usually hit them pretty hard, and the main grass types used on rain are probably ferrothorn and serperior with Breloom, Ludicolo, Sceptile, and Roserade occasionally thrown into rain teams. There isn't much more to discuss about grass types on rain aside from the fact that ferrothorn is a really big threat to rain as it can check every single swift swimmer in the high level of the rain VR.

 

[Take Azelfie]

crap forgot to update this, well the Topic of the week is a team building competition with Keldeo. Read OP for more details on it and best of luck

 

[Celticpride]

Locking, thanks to SlaySlenderDragon XD for putting time into this, really appreciate it.

For those of you wondering, there most likely won't be another Rain thread, as these threads don't need to be constantly revamped (if you want to talk about Rain, use the Metagame Discussion thread or the VR).