Hello RBY gamers,
I am once again here with an absolute wall of text for you. This one probably would fit well in Policy Review, but I think as a cross-tier RBY concern it makes sense to discuss here.
I. The Problem(s)
If you've spent any time playing low tiers in the last few years, you have probably complained about the disproportionate prevalence of fast, high-crit offensive staples on every team and the lack of defensive counterplay. I've outlined the issues that I believe cause this below.
a. Centralization
Every low tier suffers from a centralization issue where a core set of 4-6 Pokemon can or should be run on practically every team. If they do not currently suffer from this because of a metagame shakeup, like current NU, they still trend back toward this. This leads to both matchup fishing and static, on-rails gameplay where the lines are always obvious, meaning the only deciding factor remaining is RNG - crits, paralysis, speed ties, etc.
b. Offense Outpaces Defense
The centralizing Pokemon tend to be frail offensive ones, meaning that games can swing excessively by them getting a crit, taking a crit, missing an attack, or full paralyzing. This is because RBY crit mechanics and the centralization caused by OU leave lower tiers with very few reasonable defensive options that can keep pace even if they have to click Rest. OU has monopolized a lot of the strongest defensive picks and the best ones left to UU - Lapras and Hypno - have simply too much offense and defense and utility compared to their peers. This leaves us often using bottom-tier defensive picks to fend off top-tier offensive picks in every tier - Tangela to fend off Dugtrio, Exeggcute to fend off Mr. Mime, Omanyte to hold back Arcanine.
c. Tiering Cutoffs
Defensive Pokemon tend to occupy the lower rungs of a tier but get kept in a tier for an understandable reason - they do have a real niche in checking top threats. However, this deprives tiers below of the option of using these defensive Pokemon to help check their offensive threats without actually providing benefit to the higher tier, which could still use that Pokemon if it dropped. Cutoffs are subjective, yet we keep any defensive mon with a niche in the tier even if it sees 1% use. Why do we do this when Omastar can still check Articuno and Dodrio even if we make it a C rank and let it fall to NU?
d. Ban Reluctance
The playerbases of various low tiers are hesitant to ban Pokemon, once again understandably - these offensive Pokemon do have answers to an extent and there's no guarantee that the banned Pokemon ever gets a fair retest later. This is exacerbated by current voting reqs letting people who played a tier 3 metas ago vote on whether things are broken now, leading to situations like Fearow surviving an obvious ban because it was less broken in a less optimized metagame. However, this is 2024, and RBY low tiers have extremely active leadership, so the worries of something getting exiled for eternity with no though of reevaluating it later shouldn't be a concern.
II. The Evidence
Key
Red, Bold - fast offensive threat in the tier
Blue, Italic - meaningful defensive presence in tier
Centralizing - core Pokemon of a metagame with high usage that would realistically never drop from the tier
Meta - important Pokemon in a metagame that all teams need to account for but not necessary high usage; unlikely to ever drop barring big shakeups
Anti-meta - Pokemon whose place in the metagame is built off of hard countering a centralizing or meta Pokemon; too many of these is likely not healthy
Niche - Pokemon that do a good thing but need highly specific team structures or scouting to be better than centralizing or anti-meta picks
This is just meant as a quick-and-dirty highlight, not a perfect representation of the metagames
RBY UU
Centralizing: Tentacruel, Kadabra, Dugtrio, Articuno, Kangaskhan, Dodrio
Meta: Dragonite, Persian, Gyarados, Clefable
Anti-meta: Electabuzz, Dewgong, Haunter, Golem, Tangela, Electrode, Vaporeon, Omastar, Ninetales
Niche: Raichu
RBY NU
Centralizing: Aerodactyl, Mr. Mime, Raticate, Venomoth, Moltres
Meta: Blastoise, Charizard, Golduck, Poliwhirl, Poliwrath, Seadra, Arcanine, Fearow, Venusaur
Anti-meta: Gastly, Kabutops, Magneton
Niche: Nidoking, Kingler, Pinsir, Porygon, Rapidash, Wigglytuff
RBY PU
Centralizing: Nidoqueen, Fearow, Arcanine, Seaking, Staryu, Gastly
Meta: Rapidash, Porygon, Drowzee, Scyther
Anti-meta: Graveler, Omanyte, Magneton
Niche: Dragonair, Magmar, Pinsir, Machamp
RBY ZU
Centralizing: Pidgeot, Primeape, Sandslash, Parasect
Meta: Flareon, Tentacool, Weezing, Marowak, Slowpoke
Anti-meta: Onix, Rhyhorn, Butterfree, Poliwag
Notice the pattern - the centralizing, high-usage mons of most tiers are mostly the offensive threats, and the bottom end of the tier tends to be filled out by the few things that can check these threats, many of which only cling to relevance because they fend off some 100% usage threat, and many of them fail at that if they get crit on entry. It's also notable that often these checks are horrifically weak to several other top threats. In other words, the offensive threats are so good they pull up defensive checks from lower tiers that would otherwise not be relevant and still can't really keep up. This is even reflected in changes in role - Porygon went from a defensive wall to an Agility sweeper because it simply cannot keep up with the pace of offense.
III. The Solution
Since offensive Pokemon are pulling up defensive Pokemon that can't handle them, I propose we get things realigned. In short, I'm proposing two things. One, raise the cutoff for each tier about 1-2 subdivisions higher, which knocks 2-5 mons at the bottom of each tier down to the next one. Two, ban 1-2 mons in each of UU/NU/PU/ZU to reduce offense.
The idea here is to realign the offensive and defensive Pokemon by letting defensive Pokemon at the bottom of tiers drop and banning a few key offensive threats in UU, causing a vacuum that pulls up some offensive mons from lower tiers. This simultaneously weakens offense by a bit and introduces new defensive options, and it leaves lower tiers with the option to ban these new drops if they're too strong. In my mind the first offensive targets for this are the birds (Articuno, Dodrio, Moltres, Fearow) - all of which have stupidly powerful STAB moves, high Speed, and Agility - to let them be replaced by weaker counterparts from lower tiers. I'm also looking at Normal-types generally because STAB Hyper Beam is fucking stupid.
My plan is to institute the higher cutoff for all future VRs via collaboration between myself and each tier's council instead of these cutoff votes, which are already arbitrary. I also intend to standardize tiering definitions because it seems people think a C or D rank Pokemon is not genuinely a viable part of the tier - I'd like the lower end of the VR to reflect real options and not theorymons, freeing up space to regard niche Pokemon like Vaporeon or Aerodactyl as C-ranks and still acknowledge their role in the tier while also allowing them to drop. I will have UU and PU do a VR toward the end of this year, do a NU and ZU interim VR late 2024 or early 2025, then a proper NU and ZU VR at the end of 2025.
IV. The Discussion
I'm opening this thread for a few purposes beyond explaining the thought process. I want to take action on this, and I want it now, because this is going to take a long while to fully implement. It's also a multi-part process, which means I need people to be willing to trust the process and not back out when the first ban or drop doesn't improve the metagame. I can do several parts of this with no oversight or community approval, but I also do not want to do that if it's remotely avoidable, because I think it wouldn't work as well and I do think things should be done with community support whenever possible. That said, we've been spinning the wheels in circles for years and it never meaningfully improves, so I'm in favor of making bigger changes, especially because I'm also not against reverting changes if it doesn't work out. Let's make lower tiers more skill-based and less RNG-prone.
Please discuss, and also, here's a survey on RBY UU to help guide some of the opening steps of this. Please respond so I can get a sense of where people are at.
I'm going to be very direct in my opinion - I personally think we should test a ban on Articuno first, because I think covering Articuno + Dugtrio is the most constrictive thing in the builder presently. I think Articuno has the least defensive utility of any top Pokemon in UU, and I think it's the most RNG-prone in both directions thanks to Freeze, Blizzard/Hyper Beam accuracy, Rock Slide accuracy, Blizzard crits OHKOing half the tier, and Rock Slide crits OHKOing Articuno. After that, I'd like to see about banning a Normal-type to reduce the presence of Normal spam, which is already good and would love to see Articuno gone. After that, I think UU is probably significantly more playable and leaves room for the lower-ranked Pokemon to drop while still being useful in UU. You're free to disagree and advocate for different directions, but please consider supporting some kind of change so we can get the wheels turning on weakening offense and improving space for skill expression in the builder and in-game. Thanks for reading.
I am once again here with an absolute wall of text for you. This one probably would fit well in Policy Review, but I think as a cross-tier RBY concern it makes sense to discuss here.
I. The Problem(s)
If you've spent any time playing low tiers in the last few years, you have probably complained about the disproportionate prevalence of fast, high-crit offensive staples on every team and the lack of defensive counterplay. I've outlined the issues that I believe cause this below.
a. Centralization
Every low tier suffers from a centralization issue where a core set of 4-6 Pokemon can or should be run on practically every team. If they do not currently suffer from this because of a metagame shakeup, like current NU, they still trend back toward this. This leads to both matchup fishing and static, on-rails gameplay where the lines are always obvious, meaning the only deciding factor remaining is RNG - crits, paralysis, speed ties, etc.
b. Offense Outpaces Defense
The centralizing Pokemon tend to be frail offensive ones, meaning that games can swing excessively by them getting a crit, taking a crit, missing an attack, or full paralyzing. This is because RBY crit mechanics and the centralization caused by OU leave lower tiers with very few reasonable defensive options that can keep pace even if they have to click Rest. OU has monopolized a lot of the strongest defensive picks and the best ones left to UU - Lapras and Hypno - have simply too much offense and defense and utility compared to their peers. This leaves us often using bottom-tier defensive picks to fend off top-tier offensive picks in every tier - Tangela to fend off Dugtrio, Exeggcute to fend off Mr. Mime, Omanyte to hold back Arcanine.
c. Tiering Cutoffs
Defensive Pokemon tend to occupy the lower rungs of a tier but get kept in a tier for an understandable reason - they do have a real niche in checking top threats. However, this deprives tiers below of the option of using these defensive Pokemon to help check their offensive threats without actually providing benefit to the higher tier, which could still use that Pokemon if it dropped. Cutoffs are subjective, yet we keep any defensive mon with a niche in the tier even if it sees 1% use. Why do we do this when Omastar can still check Articuno and Dodrio even if we make it a C rank and let it fall to NU?
d. Ban Reluctance
The playerbases of various low tiers are hesitant to ban Pokemon, once again understandably - these offensive Pokemon do have answers to an extent and there's no guarantee that the banned Pokemon ever gets a fair retest later. This is exacerbated by current voting reqs letting people who played a tier 3 metas ago vote on whether things are broken now, leading to situations like Fearow surviving an obvious ban because it was less broken in a less optimized metagame. However, this is 2024, and RBY low tiers have extremely active leadership, so the worries of something getting exiled for eternity with no though of reevaluating it later shouldn't be a concern.
II. The Evidence
Key
Red, Bold - fast offensive threat in the tier
Blue, Italic - meaningful defensive presence in tier
Centralizing - core Pokemon of a metagame with high usage that would realistically never drop from the tier
Meta - important Pokemon in a metagame that all teams need to account for but not necessary high usage; unlikely to ever drop barring big shakeups
Anti-meta - Pokemon whose place in the metagame is built off of hard countering a centralizing or meta Pokemon; too many of these is likely not healthy
Niche - Pokemon that do a good thing but need highly specific team structures or scouting to be better than centralizing or anti-meta picks
This is just meant as a quick-and-dirty highlight, not a perfect representation of the metagames
RBY UU
Centralizing: Tentacruel, Kadabra, Dugtrio, Articuno, Kangaskhan, Dodrio
Meta: Dragonite, Persian, Gyarados, Clefable
Anti-meta: Electabuzz, Dewgong, Haunter, Golem, Tangela, Electrode, Vaporeon, Omastar, Ninetales
Niche: Raichu
RBY NU
Centralizing: Aerodactyl, Mr. Mime, Raticate, Venomoth, Moltres
Meta: Blastoise, Charizard, Golduck, Poliwhirl, Poliwrath, Seadra, Arcanine, Fearow, Venusaur
Anti-meta: Gastly, Kabutops, Magneton
Niche: Nidoking, Kingler, Pinsir, Porygon, Rapidash, Wigglytuff
RBY PU
Centralizing: Nidoqueen, Fearow, Arcanine, Seaking, Staryu, Gastly
Meta: Rapidash, Porygon, Drowzee, Scyther
Anti-meta: Graveler, Omanyte, Magneton
Niche: Dragonair, Magmar, Pinsir, Machamp
RBY ZU
Centralizing: Pidgeot, Primeape, Sandslash, Parasect
Meta: Flareon, Tentacool, Weezing, Marowak, Slowpoke
Anti-meta: Onix, Rhyhorn, Butterfree, Poliwag
Notice the pattern - the centralizing, high-usage mons of most tiers are mostly the offensive threats, and the bottom end of the tier tends to be filled out by the few things that can check these threats, many of which only cling to relevance because they fend off some 100% usage threat, and many of them fail at that if they get crit on entry. It's also notable that often these checks are horrifically weak to several other top threats. In other words, the offensive threats are so good they pull up defensive checks from lower tiers that would otherwise not be relevant and still can't really keep up. This is even reflected in changes in role - Porygon went from a defensive wall to an Agility sweeper because it simply cannot keep up with the pace of offense.
III. The Solution
Since offensive Pokemon are pulling up defensive Pokemon that can't handle them, I propose we get things realigned. In short, I'm proposing two things. One, raise the cutoff for each tier about 1-2 subdivisions higher, which knocks 2-5 mons at the bottom of each tier down to the next one. Two, ban 1-2 mons in each of UU/NU/PU/ZU to reduce offense.
The idea here is to realign the offensive and defensive Pokemon by letting defensive Pokemon at the bottom of tiers drop and banning a few key offensive threats in UU, causing a vacuum that pulls up some offensive mons from lower tiers. This simultaneously weakens offense by a bit and introduces new defensive options, and it leaves lower tiers with the option to ban these new drops if they're too strong. In my mind the first offensive targets for this are the birds (Articuno, Dodrio, Moltres, Fearow) - all of which have stupidly powerful STAB moves, high Speed, and Agility - to let them be replaced by weaker counterparts from lower tiers. I'm also looking at Normal-types generally because STAB Hyper Beam is fucking stupid.
My plan is to institute the higher cutoff for all future VRs via collaboration between myself and each tier's council instead of these cutoff votes, which are already arbitrary. I also intend to standardize tiering definitions because it seems people think a C or D rank Pokemon is not genuinely a viable part of the tier - I'd like the lower end of the VR to reflect real options and not theorymons, freeing up space to regard niche Pokemon like Vaporeon or Aerodactyl as C-ranks and still acknowledge their role in the tier while also allowing them to drop. I will have UU and PU do a VR toward the end of this year, do a NU and ZU interim VR late 2024 or early 2025, then a proper NU and ZU VR at the end of 2025.
IV. The Discussion
I'm opening this thread for a few purposes beyond explaining the thought process. I want to take action on this, and I want it now, because this is going to take a long while to fully implement. It's also a multi-part process, which means I need people to be willing to trust the process and not back out when the first ban or drop doesn't improve the metagame. I can do several parts of this with no oversight or community approval, but I also do not want to do that if it's remotely avoidable, because I think it wouldn't work as well and I do think things should be done with community support whenever possible. That said, we've been spinning the wheels in circles for years and it never meaningfully improves, so I'm in favor of making bigger changes, especially because I'm also not against reverting changes if it doesn't work out. Let's make lower tiers more skill-based and less RNG-prone.
Please discuss, and also, here's a survey on RBY UU to help guide some of the opening steps of this. Please respond so I can get a sense of where people are at.
I'm going to be very direct in my opinion - I personally think we should test a ban on Articuno first, because I think covering Articuno + Dugtrio is the most constrictive thing in the builder presently. I think Articuno has the least defensive utility of any top Pokemon in UU, and I think it's the most RNG-prone in both directions thanks to Freeze, Blizzard/Hyper Beam accuracy, Rock Slide accuracy, Blizzard crits OHKOing half the tier, and Rock Slide crits OHKOing Articuno. After that, I'd like to see about banning a Normal-type to reduce the presence of Normal spam, which is already good and would love to see Articuno gone. After that, I think UU is probably significantly more playable and leaves room for the lower-ranked Pokemon to drop while still being useful in UU. You're free to disagree and advocate for different directions, but please consider supporting some kind of change so we can get the wheels turning on weakening offense and improving space for skill expression in the builder and in-game. Thanks for reading.