OU RBY OU Viability Ranking (2016 to 2020)

Status
Not open for further replies.

vapicuno

你的价值比自己想象中的所有还要低。我却早已解脱,享受幸福
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past WCoP Champion
Moderator
Updates

edit: bug fixed, should be correct now

1. Important! Analysis of camps across the entire metagame. Do take a look; there are many interesting and non-obvious relationships between pairs of Pokemon.

2. Corrected errors in marcoasd's data.
3. Spaced out the markers a little bit for clearer viewing.

I want to thank Jorgen for inspiring me to do the analysis mon-wise across camps with the heatmap, based on work he has done in the GSC OU VR.
 
Last edited:

Amaranth

is a Tournament Directoris a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
From this data, I conclude that the Amaranth camp has significant opinion deviations in both the big 5 and the later part of the B- to C tier, and such a deviation in opinion spanning the entire metagame is a mark of a true divide. The ErPeris camp is more subtly separated from the main camp, and its deviations lie in the significant overvaluing of Lapras, and somewhat that of Slowbro and Persian.

Would anyone care to comment on these trends?
I think it's quite interesting that the Amaranth camp contains 4 people who played in SPL11, three of them ending up with strong records (out of 6), the ErPeris camp contains 3 people who played in SPL11 but generally didn't do quite so well (out of 4), and the massive Enigami camp somehow contains a grand total of 0 people out of 12 who actually played RBY in SPL11. Maybe something about that tournament has flipped opinions, and the camps with SPL players are reflecting the recent trends (whether they're flavor of the month or here to stay is another question) while people who haven't been quite so involved are voting based on more historical data.

Some data points in your charts seem to possibly confirm this: Amaranth camp prefers Starmie over Eggy slightly, rates Jynx and Jolteon more than others in that middle part of the rankings, absolutely hates Lapras and Victreebel, loves Moltres and Articuno which in turn knocks down all the other low ranked mons by a couple places. You can find pretty much all of these trends in SPL11 stats.

I think this is my best attempt at explaining the divide, the Amaranth camp is voting within the microcosm of SPL11 with all its flavor of the month picks and whatnot, while the Enigami camp has not quite jumped the gun on a few things quite yet - and maybe they're right and Cuno will prove to be unviable in the long run, who knows. Certainly not us because we won't have another SPL to see how this data develops lol
 

Hipmonlee

Have a nice day
is a Community Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Four-Time Past WCoP Champion
Ok, I am gonna go through some things until I either get bored or until my partner is ready to watch netflix. Either one could come first here.

So starting at the top and working my way down.
Firstly, Lax seems to have gained at the expense of Chansey. This is a bit of a surprise to me, from people's comments I would have thought it would have gained at the expense of Tauros, but the stats dont seem to bear that out. So the big thing for Chansey that has changed from last year is a dramatic reduction in Reflect and Stoss on Chansey's move set.

In an ice Chansey dominated metagame, having an unparalysed Chansey against your opponents paralysed Chansey means sometimes it can feel like total dead weight. It is absolutely dominated by the enemy Chansey. On the other hand, Snorlax comes in easily against the paralysed Chan and can really mess up your opponents team in the process. So its easy to see why Snorlax would feel like a much more impactful pokemon if your opponent is playing freeze games and you arent willing to.

So in that situation you might think, ok so I will just drop Chansey. Which used to be a really strong option. However, due to the Body Slam change Chansey there's a bit of a trick these days. Because what you want to do is say, ok I will drop Chansey and instead I will paralyse my opponents Chansey and dominate them with my Snorlax. So what I want is a check to things that check Snorlax, that will lure in my opponents Chansey, allowing me to bring my Lax back. That way my Lax is taking weak hits from Chansey, and my opponent's Lax check is taking stronger hits from Snorlax, but their Lax check never actually hits my Lax. We are looking for something that consistently checks the likes of Snorlax and Cloyster and to a lesser extent Gengar and Eggy. And if you can think of a better option here than a Chansey then maybe you are better at RBY than I. So I guess I kinda predict an upswing in reflect Chansey usage (which tbh I think I have already started seeing) in the next few months. Which may boost Chansey's popularity a bit again.

This is why I put Chan at 2 over Snorlax. I think Lax doesnt work without Chan's support, but that Chan can get away with replacing Lax with things like Cloyster and Rhydon. At least more easily than you can replace Chan with like Porygon or something. And even if you dont want to do that, just chuck sing on it and get rid of your god damn Eggy. Chansey just does so much and does it all so well..

The Snorlax Eggy correlation I think is an interesting one. Personally I think this may be about the desire to control games (which I would argue you guys are taking too far if youre voting Lax ahead of Tauros). So back in the long times ago when everyone other than me sucked at RBY, Lax was my favourite mon to use, because it gave me so much security. Whatever the fuck you are dealing with, Lax will either beat it 1v1 or trade with Self-Destruct. This is very desirable if you are way better than whoever you are playing against. On the other hand, Eggy can be hilariously unreliable. Sometimes it will D-E to kill a paralysed Zam, sleep your opponents Eggy then Explode on their Chansey. Sometimes, it will FP a lot and not even get its sleep off before exploding on a Starmie and not even kill it. When you are way better than everyone else this is not really what you want out of a mon.

Now the funny part is that Snorlax is great partly because of Self Destruct, but Eggy is godawful because of Explosion. The key thing being that Eggy needs to Explode to be useful, whereas Snorlax doesnt. So firstly, Explosion always simplifies the game, which is generally better for the weaker player. It's very easy to explode on a pokemon and then realise that actually need your Eggy to deal with your opponents Exeggutor for instance. With Snorlax if you dont want to simplify the game, then dont explode. But if youre in trouble then do it. Eggy doesnt really have that luxury. And because of that with Eggy the calculation of predicting an Explosion is pretty much always straightforward, and even a very novice player will get this right against you often enough. With a Lax the downsides to getting that wrong are much worse. And you dont even know if your opponents Lax is even carrying it!

I think this also carries on to Pokemon like Victreebel and Slowbro. Both are incredibly unreliable mons. Victreebel in particular being very cookie cutter in its use, and it makes it hard to differentiate yourself from your opponent when you use it. Basically everyone knows exactly how to use Wrap these days, and the only reason to use it is for that golden par mie, rhydon matchup (or even better, the slowbro matchup). Personally I think there is a lot of potential in the way Victreebel can provide free switches, although there is a huge downside to that because the free switch to whatever you get in is paid for with the very high cost of ever switching Vic in.

Slowbro is a much better mon than most people give it credit for. It requires a lot of prediction to work it well. Dont just Amnesia 3 times then rest and expect to sweep with it. It should aim to come in at least twice. Paralyse it's counters on the first pass and do the damage on the second. You only need two Amnesias to be doing enough damage to Chansey that it isnt really much of a threat to you any more. Boltless Chansey is just a dream come true for Slowbro. You can use it early in the game to paralyse stuff or late in the game as a cleaner (or both). Reflect Bro is pretty cool too, but I think at the moment its pretty hard for that to work.

Ok, Netflix time.
 

Amaranth

is a Tournament Directoris a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
Whats the niches of Flareon and Dodrio exactly?
Flareon's advantage over Moltres is the significantly higher physical attack which allows it to break through Chansey and other special walls with Body Slam and Hyper Beam a lot more easily than the bird can. Pays for it with less bulk, speed, Fire Blast power, and a weakness to Earthquake though. At least he's not Ice weak like Moltres.

Dodrio hits like a truck, higher attack than Tauros (same as Snorlax) coming from 100 base speed with the related critrate. Sadly he's made of wet paper and cannot hit a Rock to save its life. A frail Normal-type attacker in the same vein as Persian, he's considerably better against Exeggutor and Gengar by comparison and he's really quite difficult to switch into if you're lacking a Rock but the low bulk plus the weaknesses to Ice, Electric, and any form of paralysis really tends to invalidate him
 
Jolt and Rhydon stick out like sore thumbs in their respective rankings. Jolt really isn't much worse than Zap, it still possesses a good combination of sweeping/wallbreaking power. Statistically, the superior speed at the cost of inferior bulk I think is an interesting trade-off and I'm not sure I have much of a preference, as it's very situational as to which one is preferable, but the typing's a big deal imo, particularly the lack of Ice weakness which allows it to soft-check waters a lot better and generally gives it more opportunities to enter play. Rhydon is just awful, it's way too support dependent, struggles to find opportunities, and that combined with the lack of explosion means that it has a really tough time making an impact worthy of what it takes to enter play.
 
  • Like
Reactions: p2
Rhydon is just awful, it's way too support dependent, struggles to find opportunities, and that combined with the lack of explosion means that it has a really tough time making an impact worthy of what it takes to enter play.
I'm sorry but this is one of the worst takes I've ever seen. Rhydon is so dangerous in the end game as a sweeper, especially if it can get a sub up. EQ 2 hit KOs chansey and can 2 hit KO star. Rhydon wins so many games sweeping up against paralyzed mons. Rhydon is also a massive defensive resource, you get free turns against zap/jolteon and can use bslam to spread para against an incoming eggy/starmie. You can use Rhydon to predict explosions and tank hyper beams. There's not many mons that can match Rhydon's defensive and offensive flexibility.
 
Rhydon is just incredibly unrewarding. It's exceptionally difficult to use, as so many things deal significant damage to it that it has a really rough time coming in, it requires extensive para support and it has a ubiquitous check in the Exeggutor, in addition to a bunch of other things that perform decently against it. Also I've observed no trend of dropping Egg so idk about that. Basically it requires extensive support, has bad matchups against a lot of things and when it does find an opening all it usually accomplishes is a reasonable chunk of chip damage before being forced out. If we compare to Golem, Explosion is a huge deal as it's a fantastic general utility move both offensively and defensively.
 
Rhydon is just incredibly unrewarding. It's exceptionally difficult to use, as so many things deal significant damage to it that it has a really rough time coming in, it requires extensive para support and it has a ubiquitous check in the Exeggutor, in addition to a bunch of other things that perform decently against it. Also I've observed no trend of dropping Egg so idk about that. Basically it requires extensive support, has bad matchups against a lot of things and when it does find an opening all it usually accomplishes is a reasonable chunk of chip damage before being forced out. If we compare to Golem, Explosion is a huge deal as it's a fantastic general utility move both offensively and defensively.
:rb/rhydon:
Even though I'm personally not the biggest Rhydon fan in the world, to say it's awful or unrewarding is just wrong. Yes, it's hard to switch in at times (unless they have an Electric-type, in which case it can switch in for free) but when you do, it can screw the opponent over royally. This is especially true if Chansey is paralyzed and Exeggutor is either not present or already exploded - a very common gamestate currently. You want to keep your Tauros healthy, and everything else is either slower or too frail, so the best switch-in becomes Starmie, who risks taking paralysis from Body Slam or losing most or all of its health from a critical hit Earthquake.

That's the offensive potential of Rhydon. Defensively, it renders Zapdos and Jolteon more-or-less useless as long as it's present. This is an incredbile quality, since these are very dangerous Pokemon. It can also give certain Snorlax sets a hard time (those with only Normal-type moves), is a stellar Gengar answer, and can tank even the strongest Explosions.

Speaking of Explosion, that's Golem's only relevant advantage over Rhydon, and most players agree that it's not even a great one. As we know, Explosion causes Golem to faint, ergo, it can no longer wall Zapdos and Jolteon. With this in mind, if you know that an Electric-type is in the wings somewhere, Explosion is no longer a viable play, and Golem becomes a strictly worse Rhydon who doesn't hit as hard.

Hmm, writing this post has actually made me appreciate Rhydon a little more.
 
No trend of dropping Eggy? What did you observe? 2015 tournaments?
I have never had a problem switching my Rhydon into game multiple times, there is plenty of good turns, Hyper Beam, Self Destruct, Explosion, Rest, Soft Boiled, Recover of par Zam, Seismic Toss, and i'm pretty surprised no one mentioned Thunder Wave immunity which is the biggest. If anything Rhydon is one of the most rewarding pokemons on the tier, that's why it is used so much despite his bad defensive fallacies.
But if you want to tell me that i made my rby experience work despite Rhydon sucking, be my guest i must be really great because i played Rhydon 2/3 of my games for years.
Sure thing it isn't a brainless switch to most moves, but since when stuff has to be brainless to be good? You are just nitpicking a pokemon you never understood, talk shit of Lapras if you must
 

Amaranth

is a Tournament Directoris a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
Also I've observed no trend of dropping Egg so idk about that.
SPL IX: 94% usage
SPL X: 76% usage
SPL XI: 70% usage

Seems like your observational skills need a little polishing bro

I think badabing actually has a decent point with Rhydon but he's being way too harsh with his words. Rhydon is more difficult to set up than it used to be, for much of the same reason Victreebel has become nearly impossible to set up - fast things switching out of TWave turn 1. I didn't have much success with it in SPLXI and pretty much gave up on it by the end of the tournament. The way I was pacing myself in my games, Rhydon just did not fit that playstyle at all (realistically I should have played 200 practice games of rhydon to figure this out but I couldn't be bothered). BUT you're insane to be claiming that it's an awful pokemon. Its EQ is one of the hardest things in the game to switch into, he can farm loads of match up wins incredibly easily any time he runs into an electric, so on and so forth - people are already making those arguments for me. Just want to play devil's advocate a little because I do think Rhydon has gone down a notch with the amount of Starmies eating TWave turn 1 dropping so dramatically
 
Not sure if trolling but I'll respond anyway. Maybe the mod Mr. Friend of Golem could help me.

Rhydon is mediocre at best and Golem is a better version of Rhydon that outspeeds it and has Explosion. They only exist in OU to hedge against the possibility of enemy Zapdos. Golem at least can switch into a Normal attack and trade with Explosion to keep momentum. Otherwise, if you're gonna get 2HKOed by everything you may as well just use Persian/Dodrio who hit hard but aren't slow, Sandslash who keeps the T-Wave immunity but with SD and better Speed, Gengar for Normal immunity and Explosion. People act like they're playing against a full parad team when Tauros can practically OHKO these pebbles tl;dr don’t place Rhydon above Golem

Re Egg Drop: Calling Egg a liability is a huge exaggeration given that nothing that threatens it, bar Jynx, wants to switch in on either a Psychic or a Stun spore (this applies to Zapdos as well).

Then you have to consider what Egg brings to the table- it's the most reliable sleeper in the game, a fantastic check to physical attackers, particularly GolDon and it also has Boom and a Psychic resist. Physical checks are bloody invaluable, but it's the sleep that makes it extremely difficult to not fit on a team- if you're not running it that means you're using something niche like Bel or something wildly inconsistent like Sing or non-lead Gengar.
 
Not sure if trolling but I'll respond anyway. Maybe the mod Mr. Friend of Golem could help me.

Rhydon is mediocre at best and Golem is a better version of Rhydon that outspeeds it and has Explosion. They only exist in OU to hedge against the possibility of enemy Zapdos. Golem at least can switch into a Normal attack and trade with Explosion to keep momentum. Otherwise, if you're gonna get 2HKOed by everything you may as well just use Persian/Dodrio who hit hard but aren't slow, Sandslash who keeps the T-Wave immunity but with SD and better Speed, Gengar for Normal immunity and Explosion. People act like they're playing against a full parad team when Tauros can practically OHKO these pebbles tl;dr don’t place Rhydon above Golem

Re Egg Drop: Calling Egg a liability is a huge exaggeration given that nothing that threatens it, bar Jynx, wants to switch in on either a Psychic or a Stun spore (this applies to Zapdos as well).

Then you have to consider what Egg brings to the table- it's the most reliable sleeper in the game, a fantastic check to physical attackers, particularly GolDon and it also has Boom and a Psychic resist. Physical checks are bloody invaluable, but it's the sleep that makes it extremely difficult to not fit on a team- if you're not running it that means you're using something niche like Bel or something wildly inconsistent like Sing or non-lead Gengar.
Unless they're using Explosion or STAB Hyper Beam (which have drawbacks), no physical attacker can match the raw power of Rhydon's Earthquake in a single turn, not even Tauros. Take a look at these calcs:

Tauros Body Slam vs. Chansey: 251-295 (35.7 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Chansey: 354-417 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now, you are correct in saying that Rhydon's power is somewhat offset by its poor Speed and Special, and that it would probably be used less if it weren't for Zapdos, but the fact that the best counter in the game to such a dangerous Pokemon is also consistently capable of sweeping paralyzed teams is what makes it such an important Pokemon in the metagame.

As for Exeggutor, nobody is denying that it is an incredible Pokemon, nor that any team that drops it doesn't feel its absence, but that doesn't change the fact that Exeggutor usage is, in fact, down significantly. Dropping Exeggutor gives you an extra teamslot to work with, which is huge. Incidentally, the most irreplaceable thing Exeggutor does is tank Rhydon's Earthquake - everything else is role compression. Sleep, for instance, can be covered by lead Jynx, non-lead Gengar, and Sing Chansey. You mentioned the last two like they were outlandish, but they're both popular in the current metagame.
 
Rhydon is mediocre at best and Golem is a better version of Rhydon that outspeeds it and has Explosion. They only exist in OU to hedge against the possibility of enemy Zapdos. Golem at least can switch into a Normal attack and trade with Explosion to keep momentum. Otherwise, if you're gonna get 2HKOed by everything you may as well just use Persian/Dodrio who hit hard but aren't slow, Sandslash who keeps the T-Wave immunity but with SD and better Speed, Gengar for Normal immunity and Explosion. People act like they're playing against a full parad team when Tauros can practically OHKO these pebbles tl;dr don’t place Rhydon above Golem
The only time that Golem's speed matters is against Rhydon and Golem can't switch into Rhydon nor does Golem want to go against Rhydon because after Golem beat Rhydon it's pretty much worthless. Which leads me to my second point of Golem being made of paper compared to Rhydon. Golem is OHKOd or 2HKO by a big chunk of the meta (non-IB Lax, SToss Chansey and a few others as exceptions) which means that explosion doesn't have much of a surprise factor and it doesn't hit hard enough to where everything fears it (It only OHKOs Starmie about a third of the time).This combo makes Golem's explosion much less effective than it might seem at first glance.

To be honest, I think everyone at some point likes Golem over Rhydon for the very reason that you mention. It looks cool and explosion is so much easier to use than Rhydon, and when used against below top level players, explosion works most of the time as intended. I value Golem more than a lot of players on here. But there's only like 2 teams that I would honestly prefer it on over Rhydon, and arguably there's better choices.

Troller has some really good Rhydon gameplay in this video.
It might help get rid of some of your reservations about Rhydon.
 
Unless they're using Explosion or STAB Hyper Beam (which have drawbacks), no physical attacker can match the raw power of Rhydon's Earthquake in a single turn, not even Tauros. Take a look at these calcs:

Tauros Body Slam vs. Chansey: 251-295 (35.7 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Chansey: 354-417 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Directly 2HKOing Chansey isn't even important. 40% to a paralyzed Chansey is more than enough to make progress. If you're so worried about punishing T-Wave or Soft-boiled, why not bring Nidoking? It has double Rhydon's crit rate, the potential to live 2 Ice Beams, 3HKO Egg while outspeeding for upside with Blizzard, and Thunder for Starmie. You don't even need to para anything. It's crazy to me how people overlook Giovanni himself runs Nidoking to clean up, when Rocks were intended as a mere layup at the first gym.
 
Last edited:

FriendOfMrGolem120

aka. FOMG
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Moderator
I think we should stop the Rhydon vs Golem debate for now as it seems Badabing is arguing against everyone else and I doubt this will lead anywhere now that the best arguments were already presented. Fact is: at the moment the vast majority, if not all, of the top RBYers are ranking Rhydon above Golem. Maybe it will change again at some point in the future. I don't consider Golem outclassed but currently Rhydon is overall the preferred choice.
 

p2

Banned deucer.
I think the idea of Golem should be explored more as opposed to completely dismissing it, I feel Golem with a boom in hand is way more capable of flipping a game, especially in a scenario like Golem vs Tauros. Rhydon vs Tauros 1v1 is a losing battle and you might not even get a hit in thanks to the bulls 20% crit rate (same applies for Golem) but if you DO get that attack in it makes a much bigger difference (OHKO if bull is below 75%) which sets up your bull much better for a late game.

Even though its (only slightly) weaker Golem still has the potential to power through Chansey and if Chansey is para'd, the odds are vastly in your favour. I feel playing aggro with booms is one of the most effective ways to offensively power through RBY teams, and Golem adds to this playstyle more than Rhydon ever can. I don't think it should be so overlooked.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I don't think its reasonable to consider Golem overlooked when it was the de facto standard option for literally RBYs entire history prior to the body slam mechanics being discovered.

It's possible that it might have a role in a given meta shift but it isn't a hidden gem, as the lack of usage and success in tours the last 5ish years would attest to.
 

kjdaas

this girl rly slapped some letters together huh
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnus
Moderator
I dont want to add anything myself right now because I haven't used golem in a while, but i think Nails explain Rhydons merit over Golem here perfectly imo (original and longer post on Pokemon Perfect can be found here). it's already a bit old but I don't think the meta has changed anything regarding the merit of rhydon vs golem.
 

Isa

I've never felt better in my life
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I don't think its reasonable to consider Golem overlooked when it was the de facto standard option for literally RBYs entire history prior to the body slam mechanics being discovered.
this is not an accurate comparison

rhydon is the de facto standard option these days, which pleases me as a long term rhydon fan, but golem was the preferred alternative prior to smth like 2017? remember that initially _rhydon_ was seen as the mon made unviable by the body slam mechanic.
however, the level of dominance rhydon has established in the teambuilder over golem these days is not comparable at all to how golem vs. rhydon looked in the past. golem and rhydon were seen as more or less equivalent, golem got a touch more usage but rhydon wasn't far behind. these days golem is a rare sight to the point that it'd be fair to be surprised by the sight of one. this has never been true of rhydon (except possibly in 2016 when people were still figuring out the meta).
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Rhydon is overall the generally more consistent option, due to higher attack and slightly higher bulk. If you're not benefiting from Boom, there's just no reason to use Golem. So to some extent too I'd say Golem has been hurt by recent meta trends towards Reflect Normals, Cloyster, and Gengar, and away from Slowbro, which have all made Golem's boom less useful.

Slowbro, may it rest in peace, was a slow special set up sweeper that was a prime target for a powerful boom. Its usage is now virtually zero.

The rise of reflect Lax in particular, but also reflect Chansey, also makes boom less attractive. There's not a ton of value in switching Golem into Snorlax as it uses Reflect and then only threatening ~35% (~55% to Chansey) damage with Explosion. Golem will never break through either without a crit anyway, so your odds are likely higher by paralyzing them and fishing with Rhydon behind a sub.

There's been a rise of Gengar and Cloyster as alternative Normal checks and they can also boom. While having one of these boomers on your team doesn't rule out having additional boomers - indeed spamming boom can be an effective offensive strategy, it also makes them less necessary. So if you are using Cloyster and decide you need a good Zapdos check for example, you might now be inclined to use Rhydon, since you don't "need" boom from Golem anymore. Cloyster has that covered. (You might also use Jolteon in this day and age, but that's a whole nother story)
On the flip side, Gengar and Cloyster also make Boom itself a riskier option to use, since they take 0 or survivable/restable damage from it. You may intend to boom on a paralyzed Snorlax before it gets reflect up... but what you want to do isn't necessarily what you're gonna do.
 
I'm surprised Raichu isn't ranked yet. Sure, its mostly outclassed but Surf alone is genuinely a great attribute as its something Rhydon and Golem aren't willing to take.
 
I'm surprised Raichu isn't ranked yet. Sure, its mostly outclassed but Surf alone is genuinely a great attribute as its something Rhydon and Golem aren't willing to take.
Raichu is actually pretty much unviable. The only thing going for it is that Rhydon won't switch into it (because no sane person would leave Rhydon in against Raichu), and if you can keep alive and unpara'd it beats it last mon don. In exchange, you lose pretty much all physical offensive pressure, which means that Chansey, Amnesia Lax, Egg and Jolteon all hard check it. Raichu also has to choose between getting completely walled by those mons or running agility, which makes late game cleaning even more difficult. And even if you're ok with all of that and you're one hundred percent confident your opponent will use Rhydon, Raichu can't even switch into Rhydon, because if Rhydon Earthqyakes or Subs then Raichu will die. If Rhydon uses Body Slam and Raichu gets para'd then Raichu dies. It's a really cool mon that has a really interesting niche, but unfortunately that niche is just not enough to make Raichu even make the list, imo.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top