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Lower Tiers RBY Ubers Hub
- Thread starter Sabelette
- Start date
Deadline to submit a VR is March 10!
With the in-progress tournaments ending, here are the new people with reqs:
Melbelle
Huntu
NotVeryCake
And people who have reqs but haven't submitted:
Blui
CollectorEly
Enigami
Evuelf
FriendOfMrGolem120
Frrf
Ice Yazu
Kaz
kjdaas
Leru
MTB
nicole7735
Peasounay
Sabelette
SaDiSTiCNarwhal
Sceptross
shiloh
Torchic
tylerfitz8
Unowndragon
Sorry if I tagged anyone who submitted, doing this right before bed so just poke me if I messed something up.
With the in-progress tournaments ending, here are the new people with reqs:
Melbelle
Huntu
NotVeryCake
And people who have reqs but haven't submitted:
Blui
CollectorEly
Enigami
Evuelf
FriendOfMrGolem120
Frrf
Ice Yazu
Kaz
kjdaas
Leru
MTB
nicole7735
Peasounay
Sabelette
SaDiSTiCNarwhal
Sceptross
shiloh
Torchic
tylerfitz8
Unowndragon
Sorry if I tagged anyone who submitted, doing this right before bed so just poke me if I messed something up.
Might comment on placings later but quick notes:
1. Dropoffs between tiers are really really steep after A-, and everything after C is a niche gimmick that relies on opponents not being familiar with the gimmick, up until E/F which are just bad gimmicks and/or done better by something above it
2. Physical offense is cracked and I almost put Rhydon and Dnite higher than I did
3. Literally everything is droppable but the mews, if you want to drop them just use them as twavers/boom/etc instead, they're too versatile to ever drop when you could use them to do anything a lower ranked mon could do nearly as well and still have them do 2-3 other things on top
4. I'm theorymonning pretty hard bc a lot of these I've only played on ladder/had Ctown or whoever bring absurd heaters into me. Once you get past Fearow my experience is limited (barring Charizard, lol) but this VR doesn't affect tiering so I'm willing to shoot some shots in the dark, it's not like newbies should be playing anything below like Golem anyway
Edits:
1. Forgot Jolteon, putting it above Zam
2. Moving Arbok up to right above Fearow, Enigami convinced me
1. Dropoffs between tiers are really really steep after A-, and everything after C is a niche gimmick that relies on opponents not being familiar with the gimmick, up until E/F which are just bad gimmicks and/or done better by something above it
2. Physical offense is cracked and I almost put Rhydon and Dnite higher than I did
3. Literally everything is droppable but the mews, if you want to drop them just use them as twavers/boom/etc instead, they're too versatile to ever drop when you could use them to do anything a lower ranked mon could do nearly as well and still have them do 2-3 other things on top
4. I'm theorymonning pretty hard bc a lot of these I've only played on ladder/had Ctown or whoever bring absurd heaters into me. Once you get past Fearow my experience is limited (barring Charizard, lol) but this VR doesn't affect tiering so I'm willing to shoot some shots in the dark, it's not like newbies should be playing anything below like Golem anyway
Edits:
1. Forgot Jolteon, putting it above Zam
2. Moving Arbok up to right above Fearow, Enigami convinced me
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I haven't played this tier for a while so don't feel strongly about most placements but think Porygon should at least be ranked.
Starting with E my rankings become very arbitrary.
Hello fellow RBY ubers nerds 
Here is my quick ranking in order from tier, although the bottom tiers are kinda messy so don’t take too much from it:
*Edit: I forgot to add some lowtier trash, (I mean viable… mons” - If you’re wondering on the absence of trode, kingler and such.*
S tier: The GOATs. There are two and only two; anyone who says otherwise is likely drunk. At times it’s worth mentioning the Mew has consideration for the #1 spot (biased aside if you know me). Against very good players Mewtwo seems to act more defensively, almost like a chansey, albeit with the clear offensive threat - that is conveniently blocked by said chansey or an opposing mewtwo. This leads to M2 freeze wars or boomtwo.
Mew on the other hand couldn’t care less. However it’s main drawback is it’s available movepool, sometimes getting (almost or entirely) walled by gengar, zapdos, or rhydon, depending if you’re running mono normal or only quake. For this reason it’s hard to put Mew at #1, although I like to consider both Mews pretty close regardless.
A - These are your core mons that help your progress, or in tauros’ spot, finish (side note, leading tauros is a niche play and it’s main job is to finish not lead). Lax is probably the most common mon outside of the mews for good reason - It does great damage, tanking ability, can para, can boom, has quake, and can scare your opponent with the threat of counter. Reflect rest sets work, albeit way less than in OU, but they’re also an option. Chansey sees a decrease in viability in this meta, I think people began to see this more sometime in late 2023. It’s hard to progress with it at times, although seismic toss for plain and guaranteed damage seems to be the best way most of the time. Having a backup sleeper with sing is always a plus. Eggy just works almost all the time; being solid typing, having stun and sleep, and ofc boom which is a forever staple of the tier. Notably, Egg is a solid Mew check, as well as the other more obvious mons on the list purely based on typing.
B - I’m going to run through this a bit faster. Gar being the faster sleeper, rhydon being the best ground/rock (tailwhip/sub is damn good when you throw it in on a paraed mon, especially to deal with the mews). Zap needs no explanation. Slowbro starts to be one of the less widely used (widely used mons, lol) although it has good defensive bulk spreading paras, and can quickly be an unlikely offensive powerhouse with amnesia if the opponent isn’t running chansey, doesn’t have electric moves, or is simply not paying attention to the threat. Jynx is a solid lead with a best *sleep odds to speed ratio* in the tier. Nothing more really. Zam just can’t do much in ubers like it does in OU; simply because of the presence of so many strong or recovery psychics in the case of the mews and slowbro. It can however be okay if you need a fast mon to deal with something like a player who spams the raging bull, but I wouldn’t place my bets on it much. Jolteon does what zapdos does, worse but also with more variability.
C - I won’t speak for all these. They are players but with a more specific team oriented play style. Hypno plays great against lead M2, cloy as it does in OU, golem as a budget rhydon with BOOM, etc. Starmie I want to note is arguably the most significant decreases in viability in terms of OU to ubers IMO. Its ability to really do good usually comes down to if it can get some helpful rng with paras or crits along the way. If the objective is spreading paras, there are simply better options, and damage just isn’t there.
Niche - Yeah we got the wrappers and what not. A few mons that have tried and sometimes succeeded, but if you’re really trying to win you won’t see these guys much, unless there is a *clear* reason to use them.
Arc - Fire Doggo with good stats
Here is my quick ranking in order from tier, although the bottom tiers are kinda messy so don’t take too much from it:
*Edit: I forgot to add some lowtier trash, (I mean viable… mons” - If you’re wondering on the absence of trode, kingler and such.*
S tier: The GOATs. There are two and only two; anyone who says otherwise is likely drunk. At times it’s worth mentioning the Mew has consideration for the #1 spot (biased aside if you know me). Against very good players Mewtwo seems to act more defensively, almost like a chansey, albeit with the clear offensive threat - that is conveniently blocked by said chansey or an opposing mewtwo. This leads to M2 freeze wars or boomtwo.
Mew on the other hand couldn’t care less. However it’s main drawback is it’s available movepool, sometimes getting (almost or entirely) walled by gengar, zapdos, or rhydon, depending if you’re running mono normal or only quake. For this reason it’s hard to put Mew at #1, although I like to consider both Mews pretty close regardless.
A - These are your core mons that help your progress, or in tauros’ spot, finish (side note, leading tauros is a niche play and it’s main job is to finish not lead). Lax is probably the most common mon outside of the mews for good reason - It does great damage, tanking ability, can para, can boom, has quake, and can scare your opponent with the threat of counter. Reflect rest sets work, albeit way less than in OU, but they’re also an option. Chansey sees a decrease in viability in this meta, I think people began to see this more sometime in late 2023. It’s hard to progress with it at times, although seismic toss for plain and guaranteed damage seems to be the best way most of the time. Having a backup sleeper with sing is always a plus. Eggy just works almost all the time; being solid typing, having stun and sleep, and ofc boom which is a forever staple of the tier. Notably, Egg is a solid Mew check, as well as the other more obvious mons on the list purely based on typing.
B - I’m going to run through this a bit faster. Gar being the faster sleeper, rhydon being the best ground/rock (tailwhip/sub is damn good when you throw it in on a paraed mon, especially to deal with the mews). Zap needs no explanation. Slowbro starts to be one of the less widely used (widely used mons, lol) although it has good defensive bulk spreading paras, and can quickly be an unlikely offensive powerhouse with amnesia if the opponent isn’t running chansey, doesn’t have electric moves, or is simply not paying attention to the threat. Jynx is a solid lead with a best *sleep odds to speed ratio* in the tier. Nothing more really. Zam just can’t do much in ubers like it does in OU; simply because of the presence of so many strong or recovery psychics in the case of the mews and slowbro. It can however be okay if you need a fast mon to deal with something like a player who spams the raging bull, but I wouldn’t place my bets on it much. Jolteon does what zapdos does, worse but also with more variability.
C - I won’t speak for all these. They are players but with a more specific team oriented play style. Hypno plays great against lead M2, cloy as it does in OU, golem as a budget rhydon with BOOM, etc. Starmie I want to note is arguably the most significant decreases in viability in terms of OU to ubers IMO. Its ability to really do good usually comes down to if it can get some helpful rng with paras or crits along the way. If the objective is spreading paras, there are simply better options, and damage just isn’t there.
Niche - Yeah we got the wrappers and what not. A few mons that have tried and sometimes succeeded, but if you’re really trying to win you won’t see these guys much, unless there is a *clear* reason to use them.
Arc - Fire Doggo with good stats
Attachments
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I'm not going to bore anyone who may be reading this with the same filler fluff everyone else's tier list says, so I'll get right into hot takes.
Snorlax: Reflect Snorlax is, in my opinion, extremely underutilised, most Snorlax only end up clicking Body Slam and Self-Destruct, so giving up the other two slots for what ReflectLax does is worth it. Reflect Snorlax forces very uncomfortable situations for opposing PhysLax and Mew, forcing PhysLax to either switch out to something that can attempt to tank Snorlax's Body Slam or boom to trade unfavorably, and dishing out hard hits to Mew. It punishes the advent of physically offensive Boom heavy teams that are lacking in recovery. I have heard some just claim that once its resting it becomes a sitting duck for Mewtwo to farm, but partnered with TWave Mewtwo or Boom Mewtwo to incapacitate/KO opposing Mewtwo works well. I believe PhysLax's incredibly high usage is partly due to inertia from when Mewtwo freeze wars were the only thing that mattered and Snorlax couldn't afford to be passive, but the meta has changed, and Mewtwo isn't the unbeatable titan it once was as people have found ways to handle it (namely your own Mewtwo and Mew)
Chansey: Chansey is wierd, it's passive, slow, and can only soft check Psychic Mewtwo, but it works extremely well on more defensive teams as it sticks around for a really time, wastes PP, absorbs freeze, and spreads TWave incredibly well.
Starmie: Starmie is an extremely good lead, forcing out Tauros and Gengar and pairing nicely with Boom Mewtwo in the back to clear the way for Starmie later on. Chansey being dropped more and more frequently means quite a few teams haveno switchins to Starmie aside from Mewtwo, which lets Starmie paralyze it and help facilitate its teammates.
VR time! Cutoff for a Pokemon to be ranked was at least 4 votes. Thank you to: Torchic YBW Fc stunner047 Paulluxx Ctown Eledyr royzin King Billu Oiseau Bleu Sabelette FriendOfMrGolem120 Kaz CollectorEly NotVeryCake Blui Enigami for contributing to the first VR update in 3 whole years! Rank letters mean nothing, they're just used to denote significant separations in rankings. I'm hoping to run a sample teams update soon, so if anyone would like to contribute, please DM me!
Frankly, I can't show the graphs as intended because a few extreme outliers/mons ranked by just 1 person made a mess of it. Here's the dissimilarity matrix but you have to ignore weird ones like Nidoking to make it work:
And a few more graphs:
Raw vote data here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BAS08E7yLWFPJaw4M7SCCzxPAAkTLdrN3TeNcvMl4Bk/edit?usp=sharing
01 Mewtwo
02 Mew
03 Snorlax
04 Exeggutor
05 Tauros
06 Chansey
07 Gengar
08 Rhydon
09 Slowbro
10 Zapdos
11 Jynx
12 Alakazam
13 Starmie
14 Hypno
15 Golem
16 Jolteon
17 Dragonite
18 Cloyster
19 Sandslash
20 Aerodactyl
21 Lapras
22 Victreebel
23 Articuno
24 Persian
25 Dodrio
26 Moltres
27 Dugtrio
28 Electrode
29 Porygon
30 Poliwrath
31 Arbok
32 Charizard
33 Ditto
02 Mew
03 Snorlax
04 Exeggutor
05 Tauros
06 Chansey
07 Gengar
08 Rhydon
09 Slowbro
10 Zapdos
11 Jynx
12 Alakazam
13 Starmie
14 Hypno
15 Golem
16 Jolteon
17 Dragonite
18 Cloyster
19 Sandslash
20 Aerodactyl
21 Lapras
22 Victreebel
23 Articuno
24 Persian
25 Dodrio
26 Moltres
27 Dugtrio
28 Electrode
29 Porygon
30 Poliwrath
31 Arbok
32 Charizard
33 Ditto
01 Mewtwo: +0
02 Mew: +0
03 Snorlax: +1
04 Exeggutor: +2
05 Tauros: +0
06 Chansey: -3
07 Gengar: +1
08 Rhydon: +3
09 Slowbro: +0
10 Zapdos: -3
11 Jynx: -1
12 Alakazam: +2
13 Starmie: +0
14 Hypno: +7
15 Golem: +1
16 Jolteon: -4
17 Dragonite: +0
18 Cloyster: -3
19 Sandslash: Newly Ranked
20 Aerodactyl: Newly Ranked
21 Lapras: -4
22 Victreebel: -2
23 Articuno: -4
24 Persian: -3
25 Dodrio: Newly Ranked
26 Moltres: Newly Ranked
27 Dugtrio: Newly Ranked
28 Electrode: -5
29 Porygon: Newly Ranked
30 Poliwrath: Newly Ranked
31 Arbok: Newly Ranked
32 Charizard: Newly Ranked
33 Ditto: Newly Ranked
02 Mew: +0
03 Snorlax: +1
04 Exeggutor: +2
05 Tauros: +0
06 Chansey: -3
07 Gengar: +1
08 Rhydon: +3
09 Slowbro: +0
10 Zapdos: -3
11 Jynx: -1
12 Alakazam: +2
13 Starmie: +0
14 Hypno: +7
15 Golem: +1
16 Jolteon: -4
17 Dragonite: +0
18 Cloyster: -3
19 Sandslash: Newly Ranked
20 Aerodactyl: Newly Ranked
21 Lapras: -4
22 Victreebel: -2
23 Articuno: -4
24 Persian: -3
25 Dodrio: Newly Ranked
26 Moltres: Newly Ranked
27 Dugtrio: Newly Ranked
28 Electrode: -5
29 Porygon: Newly Ranked
30 Poliwrath: Newly Ranked
31 Arbok: Newly Ranked
32 Charizard: Newly Ranked
33 Ditto: Newly Ranked
| Rankers | Average | Max | Min | Median | Mode | |
| Mewtwo | 17 | 1.00 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Mew | 17 | 2.00 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Snorlax | 17 | 3.65 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 3 |
| Exeggutor | 17 | 4.88 | 3 | 7 | 5 | 4 |
| Tauros | 17 | 5.47 | 3 | 9 | 5 | 4 |
| Chansey | 17 | 5.71 | 3 | 8 | 6 | 4 |
| Gengar | 17 | 7.53 | 5 | 12 | 7 | 7 |
| Rhydon | 17 | 8.41 | 3 | 10 | 9 | 9 |
| Slowbro | 17 | 8.76 | 5 | 16 | 9 | 9 |
| Zapdos | 17 | 8.94 | 6 | 13 | 9 | 10 |
| Jynx | 17 | 11.94 | 6 | 21 | 11 | 11 |
| Alakazam | 17 | 13.59 | 11 | 20 | 13 | 12 |
| Starmie | 17 | 15.41 | 7 | 25 | 16 | 17 |
| Dragonite | 17 | 16.82 | 11 | 22 | 17.5 | 14 |
| Golem | 16 | 16.44 | 12 | 24 | 16 | 12 |
| Cloyster | 16 | 17.63 | 13 | 26 | 16 | 13 |
| Aerodactyl | 16 | 19.44 | 11 | 26 | 19 | 16 |
| Victreebel | 16 | 21.56 | 12 | 29 | 22 | 19 |
| Hypno | 15 | 15.67 | 14 | 24 | 15 | 14 |
| Jolteon | 15 | 16.53 | 11 | 23 | 17.5 | 18 |
| Lapras | 15 | 21.20 | 13 | 29 | 22 | 21 |
| Sandslash | 14 | 18.93 | 11 | 27 | 19 | 15 |
| Articuno | 14 | 22.00 | 17 | 27 | 23 | 23 |
| Persian | 14 | 22.14 | 12 | 32 | 22 | 23 |
| Moltres | 13 | 23.69 | 17 | 31 | 24 | 25 |
| Electrode | 13 | 25.31 | 19 | 30 | 25.5 | 28 |
| Porygon | 13 | 25.85 | 12 | 41 | 27 | 20 |
| Dodrio | 11 | 22.45 | 16 | 27 | 22 | 22 |
| Poliwrath | 9 | 27.33 | 25 | 30 | 27 | 26 |
| Arbok | 6 | 27.67 | 26 | 34 | 26.5 | 26 |
| Ditto | 5 | 31.20 | 25 | 36 | 30 | 36 |
| Dugtrio | 4 | 24.75 | 18 | 31 | 25 | #N/A |
| Charizard | 4 | 28.50 | 20 | 33 | 30.5 | #N/A |
| Raticate | 2 | 24.50 | 24 | 25 | 24.5 | #N/A |
| Clefable | 2 | 25.50 | 25 | 26 | 25.5 | #N/A |
| Fearow | 2 | 27.00 | 26 | 28 | 27 | #N/A |
| Lickitung | 2 | 27.50 | 23 | 32 | 27.5 | #N/A |
| Kingler | 2 | 32.50 | 31 | 34 | 32.5 | #N/A |
| Haunter | 2 | 33.00 | 32 | 34 | 33 | #N/A |
| Dragonair | 2 | 33.50 | 28 | 39 | 33.5 | #N/A |
| Golbat | 2 | 35.00 | 33 | 37 | 35 | #N/A |
| Butterfree | 2 | 37.50 | 35 | 40 | 37.5 | #N/A |
| Tentacruel | 2 | 38.00 | 33 | 43 | 38 | #N/A |
| Nidoking | 1 | 14.00 | 14 | 14 | 14 | #N/A |
| Golduck | 1 | 30.00 | 30 | 30 | 30 | #N/A |
| Arcanine | 1 | 30.00 | 30 | 30 | 30 | #N/A |
| Kabutops | 1 | 33.00 | 33 | 33 | 33 | #N/A |
| Onix | 1 | 35.00 | 35 | 35 | 35 | #N/A |
| Pinsir | 1 | 35.00 | 35 | 35 | 35 | #N/A |
| Pidgeot | 1 | 38.00 | 38 | 38 | 38 | #N/A |
| Gyarados | 1 | 42.00 | 42 | 42 | 42 | #N/A |
And a few more graphs:
Raw vote data here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BAS08E7yLWFPJaw4M7SCCzxPAAkTLdrN3TeNcvMl4Bk/edit?usp=sharing
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