Hi,
I have not been around for a while but got notified per E-Mail about phoopes messaging me on smogon about the suspect test.
I cannot read every wall that has been written in both threads, so forgive me if I miss something. This is not gonna be a lenghty post either.
I just kinda wanna say that this seems to me like the suspect we had last year did not have the outcome some people wanted (even though it was a fair vote) and now another suspect is held. This will probably repeat until the result those people want is reached.
We can argue about "uncompetitive" or "broken" all day long. Some people seem puzzled about others bringing arguments akin to the brokenness to that tabe in this thread even though this is solely about uncompetitiveness. Well... you cannot fully seperate those things here and clearly for some people this is not only about the uncompetitiveness (a word that can be bendt to fit any purpose you'd like it to)
Simple words for what is going on:
People really don't like AgiliWrap, but they really like their Dragonite in UU. Banning Dragonite from UU (which could have happened last year) would accomplish exactly what they are trying to because no, Dragonair would not fill its role. Don't forget that people are trying to use Pokemon to WIN games. Run Dragonair all you want. You are compromising yourself because you have something with way less defensive utility and stats just for a way less effective AgiliWrap than Dragonite. Play that 5v6. Of course you can win it (I remember some RBY OU Invitational Troller brought a Magicarp vs someone and won with it), but surely something better than Dragonair would give you better chances and team synergy.
But wait! It would not accomplish the same! "Why, Lusch? It effectively makes APT disappear from UU". Well, because that is not what they are trying to achive. Big part of what they are trying to achieve is keeping Dragonite around while getting rid of their hated AgiliWrap. So we don't accept Dragonite for what it is (a Pokemon that learns the legal moves Agility and Wrap) in the same way we usually do (We accept Snorlax or Chansey for learning all the legal moves they get, right? We don't handpick moves there), but we try to tailor the moveset to keep a Pokemon in the tier. Maybe if we started all tiering from scratch and people liked Mew, a Softboiled-less Mew would not look so bad? ;)
I have not been around for a while but got notified per E-Mail about phoopes messaging me on smogon about the suspect test.
I cannot read every wall that has been written in both threads, so forgive me if I miss something. This is not gonna be a lenghty post either.
I just kinda wanna say that this seems to me like the suspect we had last year did not have the outcome some people wanted (even though it was a fair vote) and now another suspect is held. This will probably repeat until the result those people want is reached.
We can argue about "uncompetitive" or "broken" all day long. Some people seem puzzled about others bringing arguments akin to the brokenness to that tabe in this thread even though this is solely about uncompetitiveness. Well... you cannot fully seperate those things here and clearly for some people this is not only about the uncompetitiveness (a word that can be bendt to fit any purpose you'd like it to)
Simple words for what is going on:
People really don't like AgiliWrap, but they really like their Dragonite in UU. Banning Dragonite from UU (which could have happened last year) would accomplish exactly what they are trying to because no, Dragonair would not fill its role. Don't forget that people are trying to use Pokemon to WIN games. Run Dragonair all you want. You are compromising yourself because you have something with way less defensive utility and stats just for a way less effective AgiliWrap than Dragonite. Play that 5v6. Of course you can win it (I remember some RBY OU Invitational Troller brought a Magicarp vs someone and won with it), but surely something better than Dragonair would give you better chances and team synergy.
But wait! It would not accomplish the same! "Why, Lusch? It effectively makes APT disappear from UU". Well, because that is not what they are trying to achive. Big part of what they are trying to achieve is keeping Dragonite around while getting rid of their hated AgiliWrap. So we don't accept Dragonite for what it is (a Pokemon that learns the legal moves Agility and Wrap) in the same way we usually do (We accept Snorlax or Chansey for learning all the legal moves they get, right? We don't handpick moves there), but we try to tailor the moveset to keep a Pokemon in the tier. Maybe if we started all tiering from scratch and people liked Mew, a Softboiled-less Mew would not look so bad? ;)