Project Research Week: SM PU Edition - Week 16 (Poliwrath and Ludicolo)

What would you like to see for next research week?

  • Challenge Week (read rules if you don't know what I mean by this)

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • Regular Week

    Votes: 2 40.0%

  • Total voters
    5
  • Poll closed .
hi frens.
I didn't actually sign up for this week but i've had experience with Lurantis so i'm gonna throw in some 2am thoughts from a tired very Dib.


Lurantis @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Synthesis
- Defog

The thing that stands out about Lurantis to me is being a defogger with a good match-up against common hazard setters. The grass typing allows it to trade positively against the common rockers in Regirock, Golurk and Golem whilst also walling Ferroseed and Qwilfish. The ability to wall and defog freely against Ferroseed is especially valuable in hazard wars as it can freely leech seed and set spikes against stealth rockers and leech seed other popular defoggers in Swanna and physical Skuntank. Going beyond the hazard war is where Lurantis starts to fall, as even with contrary leaf storm it's base speed prevents it from being any kind of offensive threat. Although it has above average defensive stats they still fall short, with any small amount of chip putting it at risk of 2hkos from physical threats such as Primeape, Hitmonchan and Absol. This forces Lurantis to synthesis very often, creating a predictable playstyle that is further exploitable by how weak leaf storm is pre-boost. Also, with the introduction of USUM move tutors Servine now has defog. The two mons are very comparable, with Servine having better bulk and speed but being weaker, whilst Lurantis isn't reliant on eviolite and is therefore able to check mons who have knock off better such as Absol and Gurdurr. Although both options have trade-offs it gives it more competition for it's niche as a bulky grass type defogger with reliable recovery.

tl;dr the main reason I ever consider using Lurantis is when I really want a strong match-up against hazard setters. Beyond that, Lurantis lacks the defensive stats to check higher ranked physical threats reliably.

As for Swoobat I can't really comment much since i've only used it on Grassy Terrain, but overall Skuntank just gives it a really tough time and it doesn't really have the tools to fix this problem efficiently.
 
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Yeah now that i tried mplozes set to use blitz i can see what you meant.
But the problem i had is exactly what dibs said. Its predictable. Nothing runs leaf guard and all contrary variant will have superpower(didn't knew it got superpower till mploz pointed. Thnx dude). Still its usable and favorable matchup against hazard setters sure gives oppertunities. But it is not the fastest mon and yes in trick room it helps,but trick room fades away way quicker than a fraction of the match. You can expect only to get one or two kills,And remember that is if you can set it up. People see that stuff coming from way far since i use A-exeggutor to set it up first. None the less an underappreciated mon who is going to stay that way since it's niche of defog is from now, well dibs covered that part.

Replays
Actually nothing good
Just realised that in the moments captured lurantis was outshined by other sweepers like throh and duosion.
 
REGIROCK
-------------------
It seems as regirock is a highly underestimated wall that is impossible to ohko (due to sturdy xD) unless it's hit with boosted SE hit or unboosted strong special one. In anyways it was able to tank and KO a combusken who was at +2 atk and also was able to tank a close combat from primape.
Bear in mind these results were with 252/252/4 bulk,so i know its not reasonable.
Now testing it with a rock polish weakness policy set and for now it is less reliable as a check and least reliable sweeper on my entier team. But pretty sure it will grow. Will post updates

ABOMASNOW
------------------------
I know i voted regirock but since i was doing so much gimmic with my first regirock team(regirock was a gravity zap cannon set and have a dusknoir with telekinesis dynamic punch) i thought of testing viability of scarf abomasnow.
To my surprise it really got people off guard. They couldn't know that thier mespirit was going to be wood hammered by a hulking Christmas tree until i revealed, so a big surprise factor was present in my favour. Also i knew that it even scarfed was not going to outspeed much but all i needed was to test its usability and it is definitly useful.

Also i could only get one good replay, so excuse me on that front.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-664037417
I bet he too was surprised to find that abomasnow was scarfed. Regirock didn't do much but that always happens

EDIT:here is a demonstration of my regirock set
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-664508797
Yea nothing else to add

TEAM
Regirock @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Drain Punch

Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pain Split
- Shadow Sneak
- Telekinesis
- Dynamic Punch

Dugtrio-Alola @ Groundium Z
Ability: Tangling Hair
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Reversal

Manectric @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower

Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Stench
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
 
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Anyone have any clue as to why last week nobody else participated?
RW11 dec

To answer your question, I actually discussed a lack of users participating with Dibs at one point, and he said something along the lines of (sorry if my memory fails me Dibs) "The thread requires a commitment of sorts, which tends to put a strain on people who participate. Other threads don't require a huge investment of time, making them more user-friendly." If anyone has any suggestions on ways to improve the thread / make it more accessible, then feel free to let me know
 
The thread requires a commitment of sorts, which tends to put a strain on people who participate. Other threads don't require a huge investment of time, making them more user-friendly. If anyone has any suggestions on ways to improve the thread / make it more accessible, then feel free to let me know
Well there better be a plan cause i think this thread is gonna die soon, how about telling everyone we engage?

As for research result, well aggron that i tested was a red card metal burst lure and it worked sortof. As for pinsir, it decimates team after one or 2 moxie boosts. Could have better speed thou.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-667794550
 
Hey guys! The thread will be undergoing a major overhaul over the course of a few weeks. I'll be open to suggestions while the overhaul is under way, so please PM me if you have a suggestion that could benefit the thread. And for anyone who is wondering, yes, the thread will run like normal during the overhaul, so no need to worry. With that said, I look forward to you guys seeing the thread once the changes are complete!
 
Challenge Week: Alright guys! The next mons up for research are Lycanrock (both forms) and Liepard. The challenge is that Liepard must use a Choice Item and that Lycanrock must use a Z Crystal. Good luck and have fun!
 
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In using Lycanroc as RW Redhorse

Lycanroc-Midnight @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Focus Punch
- Foul Play / Stomping Tantrum
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish

Speed EVs are to outspeed scarf Ape at +2
252+ Atk Lycanroc-Midnight All-Out Pummeling (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 329-388 (121.4 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Lycanroc-Midnight Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 123-146 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
^surprisingly the same calc for Stomping Tantrum
Lycanroc @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Accelerock
- Drill Run
- Stone Edge

252+ Atk Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Lycanroc: 140-168 (48.1 - 57.7%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO
 
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Liepard @ Choice Band
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn / Pursuit
- Copycat

CB Liepard is interesting and not really something you see anymore in favor of NP or weather supprt. Copycat allows you to revenge kill Primeape with their own +1 Priority Close Combat, Archeops with their own Stone Edge, etc. For some reason Gunk Shot isn't on the main set, but it gives stuff like SpDef Clefairy and Silvally-Fairy a nasty surprise.

I will be posting a team and (possibly) replays later, I'm just getting this set posted here.
 
A lil late, but here are some quick thoughts on Lycan-Doggo.

Using Lycan-Midnight with this set actually felt almost exactly like using the standard SD-Lycanium set for normal Lycanroc, except that it traded priority and power for speed.

My prior experience with Lycanroc has been:
- Pray for a chance to set up an SD (there aren't many, since it gets OHKO'd by pretty much everything)
- Blow Splintered Stormshards on whatever's in front of me because I'm not 100% sure I'll live to get another opportunity
- Desperately Accelerock whatever comes in to clean up, since it probably outspeeds and/or resists my coverage (even with team support)
- Alternately, miss Stone Edge on whatever comes in and lose game

This Lycan-Midnight set functions similarly, except with a little more bulk
- Pray for a chance to set up an RP (a bit easier, actually - the base stats and HP investment are enough to help the pupper live with 5-20% health on a lot of things that would normally kill standard-Lycan
- Probably immediately blow Fight-Z because whatever came in is usually a rock/steel/fighting type. This nets a KO most of the time, or at least severely weakens the switch-ins
- If I remember correctly, this did ~85% to a Lefties Lanturn, Lycan lived a Scald, and was able to KO with Stone Edge.
- Surprise factor is a big deal here, as it nets a lot more kills (in my experience) than the expected Splintered Stormshards (added benefit, it isn't resisted by fighting mons)
- Either continue denting mons (now that you outspeed almost everything, you're basically guaranteed another hit) or complete the sweep
- Harder to RK than normal Lycan, only taking 55-65 from Chan's Mach Punch
- 252+ Atk Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Lycanroc-Midnight: 188-224 (55.7 - 66.4%)
- 252+ Atk Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lycanroc: 210-248 (72.1 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Lycanroc-Midnight All-Out Pummeling (200 BP) vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 266-314 (90.7 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Lycanroc-Midnight Stone Edge vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 100-118 (34.1 - 40.2%)

Overall, I found this set to be as usable as standard SD Lycan. You could swap Crunch for Stomping Tantrum for coverage, but I found the damage on Mesprit to be more helpful than the potential damage on Skuntank. The case for Tantrum would be extending the cleanup (not getting walled after blowing fight-Z). I did get a few chances to use focus punch unprotected, but the replays weren't worth sharing.

A typical performance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-709663798

A good performance against a poorly constructed team
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-709620342

Cleanup duty against another dubious team
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-709669040

I peaked at 1400 with ~73 GXE in 25 battles. The team isn't especially well-made, but it got the job done and was fun to use. Drifblim is definitely the most expendable member but I couldn't be bothered to figure out how to replace it. It was originally ShellSmash Carracosta, but that was too many fighting weaknesses for my liking (still really fighting week).

Sash lead Auro and AV Kec murder the ladder. AV Kec is slept on. But it wasn't the focus of this thread/post.

Lycanroc-Midnight @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Focus Punch
- Foul Play
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Freeze-Dry
Drifblim @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Acrobatics
- Destiny Bond
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Shadow Ball
Magmortar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt
Kecleon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch
Gourgeist-Super @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed
- Flame Charge
- Will-O-Wisp
 

Volbeat (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Tailwind/Encore/Defog

So pretty interesting mon here, it isn't seen too much outside of setting up rain. This set allows it to annoy a lot of the fighting types like Hitmonchan and Primeape, and pivot out. It has a ton of utility, so the fourth move slot really is a toss up. Encore is the most popular choice but tailwind could help you speed up some wall breakers and Defog is pretty self explanatory. Hoping to get some replays with this thing but just wanted to get this set out there, and hopefully get this thread going again :]
 
STOUTLAND
--------------------
Man just came into the moment of truth that Stoutland is awesome. Even when it's ev's are assigned to pure bulk(252/0/252) and 4 atk it still is able to 2hko most offensive mons and a 2hko isnt that bad
-1 252+ Atk Fist Plate Iron Fist Hitmonchan Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Stoutland: 242-288 (64.7 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and
4 Atk Stoutland Frustration vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 145-172 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
So yeah definitly possible. I chose frustration over return to kindof imposterproof ditto's that are rampant(atleast in my run)

Plus with choice band and intimidate you could nuke almost all walls within 2hko category unless they are extremly bulky or is immune to it
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Frustration vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 297-349 (101.3 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Frustration vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 366-432 (135 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Frustration vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Tangela: 144-171 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
and still have enough bulk for this
-1 252+ Atk Fist Plate Iron Fist Hitmonchan Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Stoutland: 242-288 (64.7 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Sure u instant die agaist defiant primape but still,it's a tradeoff worthy imo.
And besides to avoid primape issue you could somehow run scrappy but that makes matchup with hitmonchan terrible.
This is my current set
Stoutland @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Frustration

SHIFTRY
-------------
At first glance I had high hopes,but still upto this moment i haven't had any success beyond it's niche defog support path. Still working on it tbh, but clearly can break past stuff quite easily if found in favorable matchup.
Now kinof exploring its early bird ability xD
Shiftry @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Rest

Will update with replays if I get suitable ones.
 

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