Reshiram [QC:2/3] dropped

[Rei]

​

[OVERVIEW]

• Reshiram with its strong special attacks that does acceptable damage, when paired with Grassium Z, it can perform as a wallbreaker and take on Pokemon it usually could not such due to resisting its STABs such as Arceus-Ground, Primal Kyogre, and Arceus-Water.
• Reshiram's defensive typing allows can come in on Fire attacks from Pokemon like Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh which could benefit a team with no defensive utility.
• However, Reshiram is weak to entry harzards, especially Stealth Rock. It has to be very careful when switching in when Stealth Rocks are up due to its Fire-typing. Reshiram has to be paired with a teammate that has Defog in order to keep it from taking chip damage when coming in that can hinder it.
• Reshiram's Grassium Z has to be timed perfectly in order for Bloom Doom to KO the Pokemon it is supposed to.
• It also faces competition from other wallbreakers that have better speed like Lunala, Ultra Necrozma, and Kyurem-W with its better Speed and has a higher Special Attack stat than Reshiram. It also suffers from having to run Modest nature and being in a common speed tier in the metagame. Running Grassium Z means that Pokemon that are better wallbreakers like Nercozma-DM, Marshadow, and Lunala cannot run the z-move. Therefore this is the needed cost needed in order to run Reshiram.
• Reshiram also suffers from its defensive typing as its weaknesses are very commonly found on Pokemon like Primal Groudon, and Arceus-Ground.
• Reshiram also disappoints from being unable to check Fairy-types due to taking neutral damage and unable to KO Arceus-Fairy and Xerneas with its attacks.
• Furthermore, there are better Fire-types in the tier such as Ho-Oh or Primal Groudon that can better support the team. Primal Groudon can set up Stealth Rock, or Ho-Oh being able to soak up Special Attacks from its neutral special bulk. Both of these Fire-types are also better with their high Physical Attack, have better bulk, and a better typing than Reshiram.
• Reshiram is very difficult to justify on teams and has no truly defined niche in Ubers.

[SET]
name: Bloom Doom
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Blue Flare
move 3: Solar Beam
move 4: Stone Edge / Roost
item: Grassium Z
ability: Turboblaze
nature: Modest Nature
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Draco Meteor is its best Dragon STAB that it has, as it can greatly damage Pokemon like Primal Groudon, and Dragon-types like Giratina-O, but it lowers its Special Attack stat.
• Blue Flare easily KOs any Steel-type in the tier minus Dialga. This is good to scare common Steel-types like Necrozma-DM and Ferrothorn. It also has a 20% chance of burning the target, which can be an additional hindrance for physical switch ins such as Arceus-Rock, and Arceus-Ground to deal with.
• Solar Beam is for Grassium Z, which becomes a powerful 190 Base power Bloom Doom OHKOing Arceus-Ground, Primal Kyogre, or Arceus-Water with Stealth Rocks up.
• Stone Edge is solely for Ho-Oh as its a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock.
• Roost helps with Reshiram's durability, as it can roost up on forced switch outs.

Set Details
========

• Modest nature is for maximum damage output from its moves and OHKOS threats like Primal Kyorge and Arceus forms with Bloom Doom.
• Maximum EVs in speed to outpace most defensive Pokemon like Ho-Oh, and steel types like Necrozma-DM.
• Turboblaze nulls abilities like Multiscale.
• Grassium Z is needed to use Bloom Doom.

Usage Tips
========

• Try not to switch directly into Reshiram due to it's poor defensive typing, rather try to bring it in safely though a Pokemon fainted, U-turn or a Pokemon that is locked into a resisted attack like Sacred Fire from Ho-Oh.
• Make sure hazards are removed before setting out Reshiram on the field because Stealth Rock will make it lose 25% of it's HP each time.
• Reshiram's usefulness is whether it actually hits it's intended targets with Bloom Doom such as Arceus-Ground or Primal Kyogre, so it's good to take note of what the opponent is usually switching into Reshiram, before using Bloom Doom.
• Make sure to be aware of any special walls such as Blissey, Chansey or Ho-oh when lacking Stone Edge, as they can comfortably switch into any of Reshiram's attacks without taking much damage.

Team Options
========

• A Defogger is needed to help get hazards away and to prevent Reshiram from losing 1/4 of its HP every time it comes in. For more bulkier teams Pokémon like Arceus-Water, Giratina-O and Mega Salamence are the best options because they all can help with Ho-Oh and provide useful Ground immunity that threatens Reshiram itself. Mega Salamence can help with Facade or Double Edge, and Arceus-Water can threaten Ho-Oh with Judgement.
• Rapid spinners like Cloyster and Excadrill can also help set harzards and clear off the field with Rapid Spin for Reshiram on more offensive teams.
• Mega Lucario and Marshadow can help with specially defensive Pokemon such as Chansey and Blissey that threaten Reshiram because it can eat any of it's attacks. While Mega Lucario helps against Xerneas, Marshadow can help deal with Ultra Necrozma in general thanks to Shadow Sneak and also helps in a more offensive matchup.
• A rock settler is must to secure KOs with Bloom Doom, so Primal Goudon or Nercozma-DM can cover that while also helping with the threat of Xerneas. Primal Groudon also appreciates Reshiram with getting rid of threats that threaten Primal Groudon that prevents it from setting up with Swords Dance and/or Rock Polish and sweeping like Primal Kyorge, and Arceus-Ground. Stealth Rock also helps with dealing with Ho-Oh due to its typing.
• Pokemon like Arceus-Fairy and Xerneas both appreciate the pressure that Reshiram puts on Steel-types. Both of these in return can help with opposing Dragon- and Fighting-types like Mega Salamence and Marshadow.
• Water-type Pokemon like Arceus-Water and Primal Kyorge can help take on Ground Pokemon that Reshiram struggle with like Primal Groudon, and Arceus-Ground, .
• After Reshiram gets rid of Primal Kyorge, or Arceus-Ground thanks to Bloom Doom, Pokémon like Rock Polish Primal Groudon can freely set up thanks to its threat being KOed from Reshiram's Z-move. Other setup Pokemon like Zygarde-C can now freely set up thanks to it no longer fearing Ice Beam from Primal Kyorge or from Arceus-Water.
• Yveltal can help against Marshadow , and also provide a safe way to bring Reshiram in thanks to U-turn.
• Extreme Killer Arceus can also help with Swords Dance powering up its moves and can take of threats like Ho-Oh, and being able to chip Xerneas.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Reshiram can also run Life Orb with Roost over Solar Beam to make Reshiram live longer, but it loses its one time nuke with Grassium Z and loses the ability to take on Water-, Ground or Rock-type Pokemon.
• Tailwind can be ran to double the speed of Reshiram and its teammates for four turns.
• Dragonium Z can be used over Grassium Z, but this makes it unable to kill threats like Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Water. This also makes it run a risk of getting KOed or about knocked out from Arceus's attack.
• Toxic can cripple them on a predicted switch in and put them on a timer.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Chansey and Blissey**: Chansey and Blissey can soak up any of Reshiram's attacks due to it being a special defensive tank and allows it to get Toxic back.

**Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh can easily become a problem with either Stone Edge missing or not running Stone Edge at all. Furthermore, it can tank any of Reshiram attacks with ease and can easily KO it.

**Revenge Killers**: Common Pokemon such as Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, Marshadow, Arceus-forms, and Ultra Necrozma easily outspeed and can OHKO Reshiram.

**Water-types**: Water-types that are still alive due to a misprediction with Bloom Doom can OHKO Reshiram back as most can live a Draco Meteor.

**Rock-types**: If Bloom Doom is already used Arceus-Rock and Mega Diancie can easily take any attack Reshiram throws at it and KO back.

**Hazards**: Hazards, especially Stealth Rock can cripple Reshiram due to its typing.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon can easily KO Reshiram with Precipice Blades, while Reshiram at most can 2KO it with Draco Meteor.

 

[Nayrz]

Magma

24 hours, we're picking things back up now and deadlines will be enforced. this has been in wip for quite a while

 

[Rei]

Magma

24 hours, we're picking things back up now and deadlines will be enforced. this has been in wip for quite a while

Asking for two more hours after 24 just to make sure I have time to look it over for grammar when I finish writing it up when I get up tomorrow, if not I do the best I can with the time I have.

 

[Cynara]

Im going to focus on the content mainly, I feel like english isn't your first language, but try to brush this up as best as you can, as it will help in the GP stage.

Overview

This could do with some beefing up, there's no mention of reshirams horrible defensive typing, it's weak to the most common offensive types in the tier, such as ground and offers like no useful resistances.

* Furthermore, there are better Fire-types in the tier such as Ho-Oh or Primal Groudon that does a better job for the team and have better bulk and Special Attack.

better job for the team how so? Groudon and Reshiram also share the same special attack stat. Include in a small detail what Ho-Oh and Groudon are able to offer to the team over Reshiram.

* Turboblaze nulls abilitys like Prism Armor.

No it does not. Prism Armour, Shadow Shield, Full Metal Body are not affected by Turbroblaze/Mold Breaker etc

Usage tips

I would like to see some more detail go into the usage tips, your sentences are very short and not on point, lack of how its defensive typing hinders it, besides the mention of hazards, with resisted attacks to bring it in on, you could give examples of these such as Ho-oh choice locked into Sacred Fire, it can only really come in on steels or the rare grass type.

you need to be more concise with 'special walls being knocked out' this can be expanded on explaining that Reshiram needs to be preserved until it's checks are removed against defensive teams,. Offensive teams will require some aggressive plays to function as it has a bad matchup against offense.

Checks and Counters

I would like to see faster pokemon such as Marshadow, SD Arceus such as Ground Arceus, Rayquaza, Deo-a Etc as a mention as they can easily dispatch of Reshiram due to it's mediocre speed at best.

Other options: Toxic over stone edge is a good mention here, as Reshiram baits out support arceus, still puts Ho-Oh on a timer

Implement these and beef the analysis up, then I will consider looking at giving a QC stamp.

 

[Rei]

Alright very sorry for being late, I got too involved with getting drafted for mpl and forgot about this. I added everything that needed to be.I also added a bit more to the analysis to try to give it more length. Wanted to see if this a step in the right direction or not. I know my grammar is bad, but English is my first language :(

 

[Cynara]

Overview

* Its typing also makes its suffer as it's weaknesses are very common in the metagame due to coverage for other Pokemon.
* It also suffers from its defensive typing as its weakness are very common coverage on Pokemon like Band ho-Oh, Necrozma-DM and on Arceus-Fairy.

The 2nd point is redundant, you repeat yourself, it should also be rearranged in the overview so it's above the following point:
* However, Reshiram is weak to hazards and has to be very careful when switching in when hazards are up. It has to be paired with a teammate that has Defog in order to keep it from taking chip damage.
____

* It suffers from having no Sun support to help maximize damage from Blue Flare, but cannot happen due to Primal Kyorge being around.

This isn't really relevant, Reshiram is strong, even without sun support, which isn't required to get the most out of Reshiram.

* It also faces competition from Kyurem-W with its better Speed and has a higher Special Attack stat than Reshiram.

Kyurem-W is not the only thing that gives it competition here, as a wallbreaker as a whole, it has a mediocre speed stat in a crowded speed tier, has to rely on Modest to actually wallbreak and therefore faces competition with other wallbreakers such as Necrozma Ultra and Lunala, I feel these are worth noting and then mentioning how it's outclassed by Kyurem-W such as it's superior offensive typing.

* Another point is its hard to justify using Reshiram when it barely does anything for the team and sometimes is just dead weight.

A better way to say this, is "Reshiram is very difficult to justify on teams and has no truly defined niche in Ubers" - It should also be the last point in the overview.

Outside of the overview, this analysis could do with a bit of work, mainly in usage tips, I am willing to give this analysis a chance, as a reasonable amount of work has been put into it and I can see what you're trying to say in the analysis, but it just needs to be beefed up or made more concise throughout and I would dislike to see your efforts go to waste.

I have made my suggested changes in quoted sections in bold and made any additional comments underneath, please implement these changes / comments carefully in your own words.

Usage tips

[SET]
name: Bloom Doom
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Blue Flare
move 3: Solar Beam
move 4: Roost / Stone Edge
item: Grassium Z
ability: Turboblaze
nature: Modest Nature
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Draco Meteor is its best Dragon STAB that it has. It can greatly damage Pokemon, but it lowers its Special Attack stat.
* Blue Flare easily KOs any Steel-type in the tier minus Dialga. It also has a 20% chance of burning the target, which can be an additional hindrance for switch ins such as Arceus-Ground or Giratina-O to deal with. (Lugia isn't worth mentioning here as it doesn't want to switch into Reshiram at all, Turboblaze bypasses Multiscale.)
* Solar Beam is for Grassium Z which becomes a powerful 190 Base power Bloom Doom OHKOing Arceus-Ground, Primal Kyogre, Arceus-Water
* Stone Edge is solely for Ho-Oh as its a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock

Roost should be the main move in slot 4 and Stone Edge should be slashed after it. Roost helps with Reshiram's durability, as Reshiram can roost up on forced switch outs. (more on this will be in usage tips) and Isn't one of the best Ho-Oh answers and Ho-Oh should be accounted for in the team options stage even with Stone Edge.

Usage Tips
========


* Reshiram's Bloom Doom has to be timed perfectly because if not, it will wasted on a Pokemon that resists the attack and miss hitting a threat like Primal Kyorge or Arceus-Ground.

I would much prefer this to be more concise; Bloom Doom is prediction reliant and users should be aware if the opponent has a strong Reshiram check such as a Blissey or Chansey, they are always going to switch it in before anything else. Reshiram's usefulness is whether it actually hits it's intended targets with Bloom Doom such as Arceus-Ground or Primal Kyogre, so it's good to take note of what the opponent is usually switching into Reshiram, before using Bloom Doom.

* Make sure hazards are removed before setting out Reshiram on the field because Stealth Rock will make Reshiram lose 25% of it's HP each time. (The comments about Defoggers and Rapid Spinners belong in team options)
* Try not to switch directly into Reshiram due to it's poor defensive typing, rather try to bring it in safely though a Pokemon fainted, a U-turn or a Pokemon that is locked into a resisted attack like Sacred Fire from Ho-Oh. It can also come in on Support Nercozma-DM, or Mega Venusaur. (This should be reordered so it is the first point of the usage tips section)
* Make sure to be aware of any special walls such as Blissey, Chansey or Ho-oh when lacking Stone Edge, as they can comfortably switch into any of Reshiram's attacks.
* Reshiram suffers from its bad defensive typing and its common weaknesses are very easily found in the metagame. Its Speed tier also hinders it against more offensive teams. (this point becomes redundant as it can be merged into a previous point as suggested above)
* There is little reason to use Reshiram other then it's niche of knocking out Primal Kyorge or Arceus-Ground as there are better Fire-types out there. This is not a usage tip and is already mentioned in the overview to an extent, remove this.

Team options

* Arceus is needed for its role of being a Defogger, the best would be Arceus-Ground on a balance team to help with Ho-Oh, and Groudon, two things that greatly threaten Reshiram.

I think Arceus-Water, Giratina-O and Mega Salamence are worth mentioning here and explain why, Arceus-Ground does not help out with Ho-Oh at all. Mega Salamence is mentioned later on in team options, but it should be merged here, due to the fact it's a good Ho-oh answer to consider as you mentioned, due to Facade.

* Mega Lucario helps with specially defense Pokemon such as Chansey and Blissey that can eat any of Reshiram's attacks, and also serve to help out against Xerneas

* Marshadow easily helps against Ultra Necrozma that is running Earthquake and help with offensive pressure due to its high Attack and Speed.

These two pokemon perform the same role and can be merged together, while Marshadow can help deal with Ultra Necrozma in general thanks to Shadow Sneak and also helps with the offense matchup.

* A rock settler is must to sercure KOs with Bloom Doom, so Primal Goudon covers that and can also help with the threat of Xerneas.

* Necrozma-DM can support also with Stealth Rocks and being able to help against a Xerneas that is sat up.

These examples of Stealth Rock setters can be merged together also, and the points that they deal with Xerneas. Also mention how Stealth Rock can help deal with Ho-Oh, which is something Reshiram would struggle against.

Extreme Killer Arceus is also worth noting in team options to help with Offense due to it's strong priority.

Other Options

Roost can be removed from OO as it is in the main set. Tailwind can be added to OO for team support, but it's hard to fit.

* Toxic can be used over Stone Edge to get Ho-oh and Arceus-forms.

This doesn't read well, it's more so Toxic can cripple them on a predicted switch in and put them on a timer.

Checks and Counters

Overall, Checks and Counters looks fine, I would reorder so Hazards are below rock types and make the point more concise, Reshiram is suspectible to every type of entry hazard and is weak to Stealth Rock. Ho-oh should also be in checks and counters after specially defensive walls.

Overall, I would take time going over the grammar and spelling of the analysis, before it goes into the GP Stage, there is a lot of misspellings and grammatical errors throughout, for example Arceus-forms should be 'Arceus formes' and there are instances where Grassium-Z is spelled incorrectly.

You can reference this thread if you have any issues

Please implement this check so I can review for a stamp, you can also ask any questions in the #Analyses channel on the ubers discord.

 

[Rei]

Ok I think this is ready as well, I hope I didn't miss anything. Will be checking it over for grammar, and spelling after I get 1/3.

 

[Cynara]

Looks like you implemented my check to an acceptable standard. Reword the Toxic mention in OO as I previously pointed out, give this another read over and try to improve the grammar as best as you can.

QC 1/3

 

[Rei]

I tried my best to fix my grammar and reworded Toxic in OO. Ready for check #2.

 

[Minority]

Reshiram has a high Special Attack and when paired with Grassium Z, it can become a powerful wallbreaker to break Pokemon such as Arceus-Ground, Primal Kyogre, and Arceus-Water.

I'm not convinced this is the best way to encapsulate Reshiram's limited strengths. Grassium Z is basically run in spite because fat waters just make it near impossible too break anything otherwise. Reshiram can break these with good guesswork, but no player that knows the tier is going to be surprised Reshiram is running it. It may be more accurate to say that Reshiram has very strong special attacks and can simply bust through things that aren't resists, but it still has a couple options (like Grassium Z) to try and catch Pokemon that resist its STABs.

Big issues with this mon are that it has STABs that are well covered in the tier, doesn't have any utility outside of trying to lay damage, and has poor defensive synergy + low Speed, meaning it can neither switch in or revenge kill things. In short, Reshiram is a Pokemon who's limited use is to break things, yet is bad at breaking things because of how its STABs matchup against the tier.

In C&C merge Ultra Necrozma with the "Faster Pokemon" section. Please list them in order of relevance.

QC: 2/3

 

[Rei]

Alright I'm on vacation rn, but will add this check in on Sunday night. I hope that's ok, if not I try to add it in when I have some down time.

 

[Rei]

Ok I believe I added the check above, and put it in bullet points as this is check #3. If you want the first sentence to be fixed better lemme know becuase I believe it gets the point across.

 

[Nayrz]

I'm afraid to say that the more I read of this, the more I realize is missing or just not up to my standards. I had a large post by the half way mark and then the bottom half was even more work. I don't feel like ghost writing the sheer amount of stuff I'd want to personally see on this analysis. Sarah has already went over a lot and so much is still to be done. A bad mon is not a free pass to have us do it for you. I recommend taking some time to reflect and learn more about analysis writing, the metagame, and the Pokemon you reserve in question.

QC Rejected 1/3

 

[Lotus]

My opinion on whether this analysis can see a recovery or not is not likely going to significantly influence QC's perspective, but here are some issues I found from the OP:

Overview section somewhat disappoints the reader. Saying that Reshiram is a Pokemon with high Special Attack, capable of breaking through non-resists, and being weak to entry hazards (this doesn't even specify Stealth Rock weakness) are something that won't need a genius to figure out. These are self-explanatory to the point where an analysis can assume that reader knows this by seeing stat bar in dex page and with their minimal knowledge to the competitive Pokemon.

The best way to cover this Pokemon in Overview will probably be:

- Acceptable damage output and lure its checks with Bloom Doom (that's the only 'usable' thing we have at this moment).
- Mention about how Reshiram provides its team with no defensive utility. It resists Fire and Grass, but Grass isn't that relevant / common and the most relevant Fire-types are Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh - the former just offensively checks Reshiram and Ho-Oh does not care about Reshiram lacking Stone Edge. Not checking Fairy-types as a Fire-type is also a downside. CB Ho-Oh, Fairyceus, and Necrozma-DM are not acceptable examples here.
- Opportunity cost for not running Z-Crystal on better breakers like Necrozma-DM or Lunala.


Moves section fails to properly address what each move aims to accomplish. Draco Meteor doesn't say it chunks Primal Groudon and threatens Dragon-types like Giratina-O. Blue Flare doesn't talk about hitting relevant Steel-types like Necrozma-DM and Ferrothorn. Stone Edge should be slashed before Roost so that Reshiram can pull out the most from its potency as a 'wallbreaker'.


Team Options is not discussing offensive partners that can benefit from foes that Reshiram can get rid of with Bloom Doom (mixed rp Primal Groudon is one). The section overall looks very barren to me with lack of points that discuss what Pokemon can cover Reshiram's weakness against Ground-types and create good offensive synergy with it.


Checks and Counters should be ordered like this:

- Chansey and Blissey
- Ho-Oh
- Revenge Killers
- Water-types
- Rock-types
- Primal Groudon

Blobs just stop Reshiram completely regardless of its set while Ho-Oh does the same to Reshiram without Stone Edge. Revenge killers are essentially most Pokemon that are faster than Reshiram and this is where the likes of Arceus-Ground, Marshadow, and Ultra Necrozma can fit. Water-types and Rock-types are checks but they are lower down here because of the risk they might switch into Bloom Doom. Primal Groudon is a blanket check.


And I gave all of this feedback while intentionally not looking at feedbacks from other QC members. The feedbacks overlap with mine and this possibly implies that you have not implemented their check properly while requesting next checks from different QC's. The overall writing needs to be honed with providing better examples and ordering things in order of relevance. Others recommend you to understand the metagame and the Pokemon in analysis better, but I'd further recommend you to be fully confident with the Pokémon's viability, potential, and places it can justify in teams before taking on to write a analysis. Be quick to contact QC if you get stuck, or pay a visit to dex page or previous skeletons (do not plagiarize though) if you have no idea about how to progress - though not knowing where to start likely means that you shouldn't have reserved it in the first place. You also might want to consider taking advantage of the tips stated in the first post of analysis index thread.

This is all I have for now. Dedicate yourself to hone this analysis to provide as much details as possible, and there may be a considerable chance that you can get the last stamp.

 

[Lotus]

Looks like this is getting worked on. Give me a ping when you are done so I can give it a look later and see if I can give a final check because I'm in a different position now.

 

[Lotus]

Magma is this ready for me to be taken a look? I am aware that you have informed me about your inconsistent activity, but I see that this is getting edited periodically.

 

[Rei]

Magma is this ready for me to be taken a look? I am aware that you have informed me about your inconsistent activity, but I see that this is getting edited periodically.

It will be tomorrow or Wedesday. Goal is to finish this tomorrow, just finished my final doctor appointment today, and finally have more time starting tomorrow. Everything is now ok with my health. I will pm you on cord and tag you here when I am done tomorrow.

 

[Lotus]

I am afraid to tell you that I will have to reject this.

I understand your intent to improve this analysis, but I personally don't see much signs that this thread is going to see any significant improvement from this point. I believe you had ample time to look over other QC's checks, PM someone other than me (there are 7 other QC members who have significantly more experience & knowledge than me that you could contact with), and even read a feedback of my own. Even after a week I have informed you about my plan to give this a look, the Overview section still fails to inform much about Pokemon, and to be honest, I find a lot of similarities with the SM Reshiram analysis from Smogon Dex page.

Usage Tips look very barren to me and it fails to discuss important matchups and how to fulfill the purpose of using the Pokemon in question. There will be just too much things for me to point out to improve this analysis to the point where it will meet our standards. I am sorry, but I'd suggest you to get a better grasp of how this metagame works - it will take longer than you may imagine.

QC Rejected 2/3

 

[Rei]

Dropping and if you think it looks so similar with onsite I will accept my fate with it. I will be unable to get this to standards and rather have someone else do it with more experience at this point. I will just take this as a learning experience and hopefully will be able to do uber analysis next gen when my metagame knowledge approves with time.