Metagame Reversed

actually I'm fairly sure Scarf Skymin was a set in Gen 6 whose sole purpose was either to revenge kill or flinch a +2 Xern to death.
(correction: apparently it's a set this gen LMAO, althouth its purpose has changed to checking setup sweepers in general)
Just so this isn't a 1-liner, here's a shit set I thought of based on some shitty AG memes I was running around with:



HEATSQUAD (Marshadow) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

Pretty fun set imo, if you struggle against stall then this set can stallbreak due to Ghost-type and near unresisted STAB coverage. It's not dead weight against offense either, since it has 125 Spe.

EDIT: had to change HP fighting to Focus Blast lmao, stupid 3IV legends
Just want to point out that Technician HP Ghost is stronger than Shadow Ball. Afaik, legends can have HP Ghost even with at least 3IVs since I'm pretty sure Ash-Gren has 3 max IVs and still HP Ghost.
 
Just want to point out that Technician HP Ghost is stronger than Shadow Ball. Afaik, legends can have HP Ghost even with at least 3IVs since I'm pretty sure Ash-Gren has 3 max IVs and still HP Ghost.
Ash-Greninja's IVs are locked to HP Ghost, but other legendaries can have any hidden power except HP Fighting, although some HP types (e.g. HP Flying) require at least 1 Atk IV, over and above normal IV restrictions (e.g. HP Dark is never legal with 0 IVs), although I don't think the sim checks this.
 
Viability Rankings

Viability Rankings are here! Please check the second post in the thread to view them.

If you wish to contribute by adding Pokemon to the Viability Rankings or changing a Pokemons position, feel free to post below with a detailed reason and evidence to support your claim.
 
Viability Rankings

Viability Rankings are here! Please check the second post in the thread to view them.

If you wish to contribute by adding Pokemon to the Viability Rankings or changing a Pokemons position, feel free to post below with a detailed reason and evidence to support your claim.
js, i think you should rank them by the traditional S, A ,B ,C ,D ranks rather than ascending tiers. it'll be better for consistency, at the very least.
 
js, i think you should rank them by the traditional S, A ,B ,C ,D ranks rather than ascending tiers. it'll be better for consistency, at the very least.
Indeed, currently you get the feeling that tier 3 and below only consist of anti-meta Pokémon.
Also: nominating Kartana from unranked to Tier 2 (or B, if they get renamed). It has exactly 4 "usable" Special moves in its arsenal and is very predictable; however, when used well, it can absolutely demolish opposing teams when holding a Life Orb or Choice Scarf.
EDIT: Gonna try and add calcs and/or more evidence later, currently I'm busy+on phone.
 
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Indeed, currently you get the feeling that tier 3 and below only consist of anti-meta Pokémon.
Also: nominating Kartana from unranked to Tier 2 (or B, if they get renamed). It has exactly 4 "usable" Special moves in its arsenal and is very predictable; however, when used well, it can absolutely demolish opposing teams when holding a Life Orb or Choice Scarf.
js, i think you should rank them by the traditional S, A ,B ,C ,D ranks rather than ascending tiers. it'll be better for consistency, at the very least.
Going to rename to letter based grades now. Please give evidence and good reasoning for ranks. One line is not enough to warrant a response.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I don't think Tapu Bulu, Hippowdon, Mantine or Mega Latios are in any way deserving of A+ rank. I understand that the rankings are premature, but the rankings (especially Mega Latios) is warranted. Mega Latios sucksss. as vanilla Latios hits harder with a LO and it takes up a precious Mega slot. Plus they arent that great sweeperwise as the presence of Scarf Naganadel hurts it. I think it should kicked out of A ranks entirely. The other stuff just need lower subranks, as I don't think they have the impact on the meta as the other A+ stuff.

I'd like to also nominate Mega Charizard to A+ rank. Bruh Char Y is insane!!!! 159 Attack is no joke, and barely anything can switch into Flare Blitz, with only Chansey being a viable switch in.

252 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 148-176 (48.6 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 220-260 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Reshiram: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian in Sun: 195-231 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

With hazard removal easy to place on teams and it being immune to Will O Wisp, Mega Charizard is the premiere physical wallbreaker in the tier and is easily on par with things like Naganadel and Keldeo.
 
I don't think Tapu Bulu, Hippowdon, Mantine or Mega Latios are in any way deserving of A+ rank. I understand that the rankings are premature, but the rankings (especially Mega Latios) is warranted. Mega Latios sucksss. as vanilla Latios hits harder with a LO and it takes up a precious Mega slot. Plus they arent that great sweeperwise as the presence of Scarf Naganadel hurts it. I think it should kicked out of A ranks entirely. The other stuff just need lower subranks, as I don't think they have the impact on the meta as the other A+ stuff.

I'd like to also nominate Mega Charizard to A+ rank. Bruh Char Y is insane!!!! 159 Attack is no joke, and barely anything can switch into Flare Blitz, with only Chansey being a viable switch in.

252 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 148-176 (48.6 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 220-260 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Reshiram: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian in Sun: 195-231 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

With hazard removal easy to place on teams and it being immune to Will O Wisp, Mega Charizard is the premiere physical wallbreaker in the tier and is easily on par with things like Naganadel and Keldeo.
Let me first address my reasoning behind each of the Pokemon's VR before addressing what you have added.

Tapu Bulu
Tapu Bulu is great in this meta, with good dual STAB, Calm Mind and Synthesis as well as Grassy Terrain and decent bulk. It is hard to find switch ins for this monster. The only special walls that beat it from the top of my head are Skarmory, Celesteela and Ferrothorn which are both prone to being trapped by Alolan Golem. Yes it is forced out by Nagandel but it can not come in and check Tapu Bulu fearing Dazzling Gleam. It checks Keldeo, which Chansey can not, and soft checks Tapu Koko as well as Sceptile.

Hippowdon
Hippowdon seems to be the best Specially defensive Pokemon that is not at risk of being trapped. Being able to come in and check Landorus as well as Tapu Koko. The main point being the best answer to Tapu Koko, unless it is running Grass Knot, it has access to Stealth Rocks as well as being a good phasing Pokemon.

Mantine
Mantine is the best Defensive Pokemon to learn Defog, it can come in on Pokemon such as Keldeo, Nagandel, Mega Latios, Azumarill and Reshiram, checking them and removing Hazards. It also forces Charizard to run Thunder Punch to beat it.

Mega Latios
Mega Latios was given the rank not just on its Attack and Speed but also on its bulk. It can Dragon Dance and use Roost to let it set up on weaker Pokemon or ineffective moves. Its Speed tier does give it a huge advantage, one Dragon Dance makes it outspeed most of the tier.

Replying to your comments

Mega Latios < Latios
Although I did originally put Mega Latios higher than Latios, I do feel like in this current meta you are right, it seems to be very Hyper Offensive with people trying to find the best offensive Pokemon. Latios with Life Orb does hit harder and could sweep after one Dragon Dance against offense. I will for now put Latios as A and remove Mega Latios completely, however it is worth keeping an eye on how the usage and viability progresses as the meta evolves.

Mega Charizard-Y => A+
Charizard is a great Pokemon in this meta, I have been preaching it from the day I submitted this OM. However with much faster Pokemon such as Naganadel and Tapu Koko being so prevalent with Scarf it is hard to justify it being A+. It also struggles to break Chansey and Mantine (without Thunder Punch). I feel like it has two good options. Dragon Dance, Roost, Fire Punch, Earthquake or Dragon Dance, Flare Blitz, Earthquake, Thunder Punch, one being a more offensive variant. I do feel like it deserves the same rank as Keldeo so I have decided to give it A+ rank for now. However it is another Pokemon to keep a close eye on as the meta progresses.
 
Nominating Kartana from unranked to A-
Kartana has exactly four "usable" Special moves: Giga Drain, Air Slash, Hidden Power, and Vacuum Wave. Note that his strongest move has a disappointing 75 Base Power. However, thanks to Kartana's sky-high SpA stat and Beast Boost increasing that after every kill, we get one dangerous cleaner here when equipped with a Choice Scarf or Life Orb. See this calc:
252 SpA Kartana Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
A neutral-natured Kartana, without a Life Orb, can 2HKO one of the best special walls in the meta. This is assuming this wall runs absolute maximum Special Defense and HP investment, while most people will probably rather invest something in its mediocre physical Defense too.
252 SpA Kartana Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 186-220 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 SpA Kartana Air Slash vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 124-148 (36 - 43%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Remember that these are the calcs for Scarf Kartana against a Bulu that invests in HP rather than speed--Life Orb sets will likely deal more damage. Also note that most Bulu sets can't really touch Kart either, with Giga Drain and Energy Ball being 4x resisted, Dazzling Gleam also being resisted, and very few non-Specs sets actually running Focus Blast or HP Fire. Kartana also has a decent Special Defense stat allowing it to take most non-SE Special Attacks.
+1 252+ SpA Tapu Bulu Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 84-100 (32.4 - 38.6%) -- 4.6% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Remember, Kartana also has Beast Boost to boost its SpA after a KO, allowing it to clean teams easier or becoming harder to check after it revenge kills stuff.
Kartana has some major problems though: Predictability, very weak physical defense, and not being able to reliably break stuff like Skarmory. Its succes is also mainly because of some specific metagame trends being weak to it. However, I believe he at least deserves a spot on the VR.
 

Dunfan

formerly Dunsparce Fanboy
Nominating Kartana from unranked to A-
Kartana has exactly four "usable" Special moves: Giga Drain, Air Slash, Hidden Power, and Vacuum Wave. Note that his strongest move has a disappointing 75 Base Power. However, thanks to Kartana's sky-high SpA stat and Beast Boost increasing that after every kill, we get one dangerous cleaner here when equipped with a Choice Scarf or Life Orb. See this calc:
252 SpA Kartana Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
A neutral-natured Kartana, without a Life Orb, can 2HKO one of the best special walls in the meta. This is assuming this wall runs absolute maximum Special Defense and HP investment, while most people will probably rather invest something in its mediocre physical Defense too.
252 SpA Kartana Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 186-220 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 SpA Kartana Air Slash vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 124-148 (36 - 43%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Remember that these are the calcs for Scarf Kartana against a Bulu that invests in HP rather than speed--Life Orb sets will likely deal more damage. Also note that most Bulu sets can't really touch Kart either, with Giga Drain and Energy Ball being 4x resisted, Dazzling Gleam also being resisted, and very few non-Specs sets actually running Focus Blast or HP Fire. Kartana also has a decent Special Defense stat allowing it to take most non-SE Special Attacks.
+1 252+ SpA Tapu Bulu Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 84-100 (32.4 - 38.6%) -- 4.6% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Remember, Kartana also has Beast Boost to boost its SpA after a KO, allowing it to clean teams easier or becoming harder to check after it revenge kills stuff.
Kartana has some major problems though: Predictability, very weak physical defense, and not being able to reliably break stuff like Skarmory. Its succes is also mainly because of some specific metagame trends being weak to it. However, I believe he at least deserves a spot on the VR.
While Giga Drain recovery sure is a nice thing for a mon with mediocre HP, Kartana is far from deserving an A- rank.
Giga Drain is in terms of power a straight downgrade from OU's Leaf Blade, and Kartana also loses its good coverage of Sacred Sword and Knock Off for Air Slash and Hidden Power.
In addition to this, it loses its reliable Swords Dance setup for Calm Mind, which i don't think is good enough to be used over an All-out attacker set or a Choice item set.
The fact that it sweeps an unprepared team in a meta that just started doesn't make it viable at all.
 
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While Giga Drain recovery sure is a nice thing for a mon with mediocre HP, Kartana is far from deserving an A- rank.
Giga Drain is in terms of power a straight downgrade from OU's Leaf Blade, and Kartana also loses its good coverage of Sacred Sword and Knock Off for Air Slash and Hidden Power.
In addition to this, it loses its reliable Swords Dance setup for Calm Mind, which i don't think is good enough to be used over an All-out attacker set or a Choice item set.
The fact that it sweeps an unprepared team in a meta that just started doesn't make it viable at all.
Okay, maybe it can be ranked a little lower then. It is a quite good Scarfer though (despite massive competition from stuff like Naga). Maybe A- is indeed a little too high, but just because it got a downgrade from its OU potential doesn't instantly make it bad. I don't run Calm Mind Kartana (not worth it), the 2 on my teams are Specs and Scarf. It may have probably the most limited movepool for its role in the entire meta, but it can work quite well and is deserving of at least being ranked, although I do understand that S and A Pokémon will get priority and it may have to wait a little first.
 
So I have made my first Rain team for Reversed and I tested it vs the bot. Thought I'd share it to get thoughts from you all.


Even with the nerf to Pelippers offense, it is still the best rain setter. Being able to pivot out with U-turn as well as Defog to remove hazards. It now should run Knock Off to cripple opposing teams.


Dragonite offers so much to Rain teams in this meta. Being able to use Rain boosted Surf as well as 100% accurate Thunders and Hurricanes. The last spot being used for a powerful STAB Draco Meteor. Using Z-Thunder to be able to hurt Flying-types reliably when out of Rain.


A great Pokemon on any team in the meta, Keldeo runs Life Orb with Swords Dance and Liquidation, Close Combat and Stone Edge. This lets it deal with both Mantine and Chansey easier.


Now sporting a Special set, Swampert can be quite damaging with Hydro Pump, Earth Power, Ice Beam and Focus Blast. However on this set I have gone with Work Up over Ice Beam to boost the damage of my other moves.


Ash's Greninja is rocking Waterfall, Night Slash, Low Kick and Gunk Shot. With the Choice Scarf to outspeed Naganadel.


Tapu Bulu, one of my favorite Pokemon to use in Reversed. I added it as a Bulky Sweeper, considering the team is less afraid of Pokemon such as Charizard and Landorus, it frees up Tapu Bulu to be able to set up and deal terrifying amounts of damage. With Calm Mind and Life Orb Tapu Bulu will be breaking through a lot of teams.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Dragonite @ Electrium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Draco Meteor

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Work Up
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Greninja-Ash (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Night Slash
- Waterfall
- Low Kick
- Gunk Shot

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
 
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So I have made my first Rain team for Reversed and I tested it vs the bot. Thought I'd share it to get thoughts from you all.


Even with the nerf to Pelippers offense, it is still the best rain setter. Being able to pivot out with U-turn as well as Defog to remove hazards. It now should run Knock Off to cripple opposing teams.


Dragonite offers so much to Rain teams in this meta. Being able to use Rain boosted Surf as well as 100% accurate Thunders and Hurricanes. The last spot being used for a powerful STAB Draco Meteor. Using Z-Thunder to be able to hurt Flying-types reliably when out of Rain.


A great Pokemon on any team in the meta, Keldeo runs Life Orb with Swords Dance and Liquidation, Close Combat and Stone Edge. This lets it deal with both Mantine and Chansey easier.


Now sporting a Special set, Swampert can be quite damaging with Hydro Pump, Earth Power, Ice Beam and Focus Blast. However on this set I have gone with Work Up over Ice Beam to boost the damage of my other moves.


Ash's Greninja is rocking Waterfall, Ice Punch, Low Kick and Gunk Shot. With the Choice Scarf to outspeed Naganadel.


Tapu Bulu, one of my favorite Pokemon to use in Reversed. I added it as a Bulky Sweeper, considering the team is less afraid of Pokemon such as Charizard and Landorus, it frees up Tapu Bulu to be able to set up and deal terrifying amounts of damage. With Calm Mind and Life Orb Tapu Bulu will be breaking through a lot of teams.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Dragonite @ Electrium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Draco Meteor

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Work Up
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Greninja-Ash (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Waterfall
- Low Kick
- Gunk Shot

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
Random question, but is there a reason you aren't running Liquidation on Pelipper and some Dark move on Greninja? Other than that, the team looks cool.
 
Random question, but is there a reason you aren't running Liquidation on Pelipper and some Dark move on Greninja? Other than that, the team looks cool.
Pelipper in my opinion doesn't need the offense of Liquidation. There is enough Water STAB on the team that pivoting into them with U-turn is more effective. As for Knock Off, being able to Knock Off Choice Scarfs and Leftovers helps the team break more Pokemon rather than the 20% damage with Liquidation.

Greninja doesn't have Dark STAB because I'm an idiot that forgot to take off Ice Punch when I added Gunk Shot. Editing that now thanks!
 

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
Pelipper in my opinion doesn't need the offense of Liquidation. There is enough Water STAB on the team that pivoting into them with U-turn is more effective. As for Knock Off, being able to Knock Off Choice Scarfs and Leftovers helps the team break more Pokemon rather than the 20% damage with Liquidation.

Greninja doesn't have Dark STAB because I'm an idiot that forgot to take off Ice Punch when I added Gunk Shot. Editing that now thanks!
Seeing as Ash-Gren has better Special Stabs and only a slight loss of power (still ~145 SpA), wouldn't running a special set like Choice Specs be better?
 
Seeing as Ash-Gren has better Special Stabs and only a slight loss of power (still ~145 SpA), wouldn't running a special set like Choice Specs be better?
You got a good point, the main reason I ran it is because you lack the Physical Swift Swim user like Mega Swampert used to be, so making it up with a Physical Scarf user helps, plus the coverage is pretty good in this meta, Low kick for chansey, Gunk for Koko, Night Slash for neutral threats like Naganadel and Waterfall to abuse rain with.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Seeing as Ash-Gren has better Special Stabs and only a slight loss of power (still ~145 SpA), wouldn't running a special set like Choice Specs be better?
Its just that its really hard to nab the first kill with 95 SpA.
 

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
Its just that its really hard to nab the first kill with 95 SpA.
I wouldn't say it's a huge downgrade from 103 Special Attack, and it bops both Hippo and Bulu. Walled by Skarm and Toxapex before transforming which sucks, but I think it's better than the physical set (which still has its counters like Mantine and Toxapex).

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 211-250 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Naganadel: 204-241 (71 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I mean isn't that important but still outspeeds if not Scarf)

4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 348-412 (101.1 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (It's actually more than this, calc'd with 95 Atk)

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 278-330 (66.1 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 195-229 (65.6 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hydro has a chance to OHKO)

4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 214-252 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Set:
Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot
 
I wouldn't say it's a huge downgrade from 103 Special Attack, and it bops both Hippo and Bulu. Walled by Skarm and Toxapex before transforming which sucks, but I think it's better than the physical set (which still has its counters like Mantine and Toxapex).

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 211-250 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Naganadel: 204-241 (71 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I mean isn't that important but still outspeeds if not Scarf)

4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 348-412 (101.1 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (It's actually more than this, calc'd with 95 Atk)

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 278-330 (66.1 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 195-229 (65.6 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hydro has a chance to OHKO)

4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 214-252 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Set:
Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot
You could argue about a lot of mons having a lot of counters. Toxapex and Mantine are easily dealt with, with the other members on the team. So there really is little to no need to mention them.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I wouldn't say it's a huge downgrade from 103 Special Attack, and it bops both Hippo and Bulu. Walled by Skarm and Toxapex before transforming which sucks, but I think it's better than the physical set (which still has its counters like Mantine and Toxapex).

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 211-250 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Naganadel: 204-241 (71 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I mean isn't that important but still outspeeds if not Scarf)

4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 348-412 (101.1 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (It's actually more than this, calc'd with 95 Atk)

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 278-330 (66.1 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 195-229 (65.6 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hydro has a chance to OHKO)

4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 214-252 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Set:
Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot
no sense in gunk shot with Specs. Just run LO or Expert Belt as a lure
 
Just discovered something.
Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature/Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Ancient Power
- Rock Polish/Focus Blast/Earth Power

165 base Special attack boosted by SF+LO. You could use this with Trick Room support to run more bulk. It also gets some more interesting options like Dragon Pulse, Surf, and Fire Blast.
Nidoking and 'Queen are nothing compared to this. It also doesn't face as much competition from Lando-T.
 
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Hey I have been working on a similar metagame, but it may be too similar to this one. Are stat increasing moves swapped as well, as i found they aren't well distrubuted when stats are swapped. Eg bulk up becomes the equivalent of calm mind and vice versa same with swords dance and nasty plot, quiver dance increases attack,defense and speed.
 
Hey I have been working on a similar metagame, but it may be too similar to this one. Are stat increasing moves swapped as well, as i found they aren't well distrubuted when stats are swapped. Eg bulk up becomes the equivalent of calm mind and vice versa same with swords dance and nasty plot, quiver dance increases attack,defense and speed.
No, that's not the case here. Calm Mind increases the SpA and SpD of users as in the usual meta, which allows mons like Lando-T and Tapu Bulu to become very scary special sweepers.
 

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