I didn't get permission to post this thread or anything but before SPL starts I really want to have a discussion about why we haven't touched brightpowder or evasion weather abilities this gen. Both the ability and the item are clearly uncompetitive in nature and should fall under evasion clause as well. I can list countless examples of those abilities being truly uncompetitive but a great example is this replay. There is literally no counterplay for me against that garchomp. It is either I hit the encore or I miss and thus, I get swept because I missed. I can show countless other replays of just it subbing down and getting a sweep. You could argue garchomp is the pokemon that is uncompetitive in this case but it is clearly the items and ability that are uncompetitive here. I really believe these two should be looked at before SPL. I apologize for posting when I don't have permission but I really would like there to be discussion about why we choose that only evasion moves are banned yet these abilities and items are just as uncompetitive.
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Reviewing Brightpowder and Evasion Weather Abilities (in Generation 8)
- Thread starter sugarhigh
- Start date
First off, to me, the strategy of spamming Substitute to fish for free turns with Sand Veil Garchomp is indeed problematic, as it is both viable and based on sheer luck.
So while I agree that Sand Veil is uncompetitive, I don't necessarily agree that it's the case with Bright Powder (and Lax Incense) as well.
For those looking for some numbers, Sand Veil causes the accuracy of moves used against the Pokemon with this ability to be 80% of their original value. In a similar vein, Bright Powder causes the accuracy of moves used against the holder to be 90% of their original value. Combined, this makes 72%.
I won't go deep into the specifics of using Bright Powder vs. Leftovers on Sand Veil SubSD Garchomp (though I firmly believe Leftovers to be superior), but to me this should be handled like in generations 3-5: ban Sand Veil, as it is the main culprit behind this strategy. The 80% accuracy modifier of Sand Veil makes spamming Substitute to fish for free turns worthwhile, but I'd say the 90% accuracy modifier of Bright Powder doesn't, especially as it comes at the cost of giving up Leftovers, which can grant you an additional Substitute to go for. Bright Powder, unlike Sand Veil, doesn't enable any problematic strategies on its own merit, so I don't believe it necessarily has grounds to be banned.
So while I agree that Sand Veil is uncompetitive, I don't necessarily agree that it's the case with Bright Powder (and Lax Incense) as well.
For those looking for some numbers, Sand Veil causes the accuracy of moves used against the Pokemon with this ability to be 80% of their original value. In a similar vein, Bright Powder causes the accuracy of moves used against the holder to be 90% of their original value. Combined, this makes 72%.
I won't go deep into the specifics of using Bright Powder vs. Leftovers on Sand Veil SubSD Garchomp (though I firmly believe Leftovers to be superior), but to me this should be handled like in generations 3-5: ban Sand Veil, as it is the main culprit behind this strategy. The 80% accuracy modifier of Sand Veil makes spamming Substitute to fish for free turns worthwhile, but I'd say the 90% accuracy modifier of Bright Powder doesn't, especially as it comes at the cost of giving up Leftovers, which can grant you an additional Substitute to go for. Bright Powder, unlike Sand Veil, doesn't enable any problematic strategies on its own merit, so I don't believe it necessarily has grounds to be banned.
My big boss sugarhigh encouraged me to post something as I'm one of the dudes who usually abuses of this stupid ass threat. I wanted to abuse of bright powder+sand veil chomp strategy in a game I did in OU circuit poffs vs John W
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-534325
The point is that Garchomp got a lot of nice shit in 8th gen (scale shot) and overall it is not difficult to have counterplay to this mon but things like sand veil+bpowder as you can see can literally change the outcome of a game. For example a buzzwole usually can deal with Garchomp but in this game Buzzwole was literally obliterated by a stupid rng based strategy. The point is that Sand Veil+BPowder Garchomp does not really add anything in the metagame, it only adds more RNG that we don't need in a metagame that is still developing. Tbh Sand Veil Chomp should be suspected at least or quickbanned... then idk if Bright Powder without Sand Veil deserves the same fate. Probably it should not be a problem banning Sand Veils as it was banned also in adv and dpp.
EDIT: Probably we need to look also how other hax based items can affect the meta. Remember when things like KingRock Cloyster or Quick Draw galarian slowbro were spammed lol.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-534325
The point is that Garchomp got a lot of nice shit in 8th gen (scale shot) and overall it is not difficult to have counterplay to this mon but things like sand veil+bpowder as you can see can literally change the outcome of a game. For example a buzzwole usually can deal with Garchomp but in this game Buzzwole was literally obliterated by a stupid rng based strategy. The point is that Sand Veil+BPowder Garchomp does not really add anything in the metagame, it only adds more RNG that we don't need in a metagame that is still developing. Tbh Sand Veil Chomp should be suspected at least or quickbanned... then idk if Bright Powder without Sand Veil deserves the same fate. Probably it should not be a problem banning Sand Veils as it was banned also in adv and dpp.
EDIT: Probably we need to look also how other hax based items can affect the meta. Remember when things like KingRock Cloyster or Quick Draw galarian slowbro were spammed lol.
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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238466688-nt6weionskwabshhcpjwyz1ls0cuwv2pw
Have a look at this replay , it's against my opponent for a Spanish Tournament that I had 2 weeks ago and you can see what sand veil can do with scale shot, this is a good example of a replay I think to show the potential of sand veil + brightpowder, even if you are in a position to lose a game you can still win it with this combination. (watch turn 30)
Have a look at this replay , it's against my opponent for a Spanish Tournament that I had 2 weeks ago and you can see what sand veil can do with scale shot, this is a good example of a replay I think to show the potential of sand veil + brightpowder, even if you are in a position to lose a game you can still win it with this combination. (watch turn 30)