As many people are coming to realize, there is not a set of 6 pokemon capable of countering everything. Especially, now with the advent of platinum moves and pokemon, things are very hectic.
So, as a comprimise, I've attempted to create a team in which most of D/P serious threats are adequately countered. The others which aren't, are sort of half dealt with, but this will allow me to mount an effective offensive strategy as well, which can prove too hard to counter by the opposing team.
I'll explain in detail as i talk about the pokemon and afterwards as i conclude.
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 152 Def / 88 SpD
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Roar
The new EV suggestion on Shoddy works really well. I've tested a few different hippo's but this spread actually works the best. I still can take hits from TTar, Machamp and Flygon ridiculously well, as well as surprisingly taking quite a beating from the special side too. With this spread i am no longer afraid of jolteon, zapdos, tyraniboah, and others.
Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Electric
This thing has so many jobs, that it really is the crux of my team. It does the brunt of the work in countering Salamence and Gyarados, as well as being a critical Fighting resist to my team. I'll explain that part at the end.
HP electric >>> Charge Beam IMO as i wont be stalling late game too much, and Charge beam has a significant chance not to 2HKO gyarados.
It also helps counter infernape, although it wont do it all as I am not using Psychic. It also helps counter kingdra in a pinch.
It is a counter for Electivire, and also an O.K. breloom buffer.
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
Naive nature (+SpA, -SpD)
- Explosion
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice
- Overheat/Fire Blast
This pokemon has many jobs too.
First and foremost, it is a reliable OHKO counter to all forms of Lucario, weavile, Heracross, and Scizor. It can also OHKO outraging Salamence.
Also, it should be noted that Heatran is technically also a sweeper with that huge SpA. Nothing likes taking a STAB overheat or fireblast from this.
Heatran works very very well with Cresselia. IMO much better with Cress than Celebi. I will talk about the stategy here at the end.
As far as the last move, i lean toward overheat, as its rarely in for more than one turn anyway. and late sweeping is just about prediction anyway. Ill explain more about my overall strategy at the end.
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
-Aromatherapy
-Thunderwave
-Softboiled
-Seismic Toss
Well, here she is. IMO the best OU pokemon. She there for one thing and one thing only. Absorb ALL special attacks.
Actually, there is a little bit more to tell.
I'm really frustrated by her. I tried not to EV her this way, i really did. But i always kept coming back to this. Why? well the most obvious is that she actually takes physical hits surprisingly well. a non boosted waterfall does like 40% for example. Another reason is that Dugtrio can NEVER 2HKO Blissey.
So, here is probably my biggest dilemma. This is probably where i need the most criticism. I'm looking to try and keep Blissey on this team, and, if its manageable, keep aromatherapy on. Although, i realize, that may not be possible.
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Extremespeed
-Crunch/Bullet Punch
Along with Salamence, i call these two pokemon my mid-to-late game sweepers. They both serve two purposes. A: they both can switch in a in one hit finish off a weakened opponent if i need it or need a little help. and B: they have a 1 turn set up, and nearly no counters, especially both of them working together in mid-to-late game.
The choice in the last slot is pretty tough. Notice that Ice punch is not there. That is for two reasons. It is because most gliscor are ev'd to beat ice punch lucario anyway, and because a jolly lucario cannot sweep anywhere near as good as an Adamant one. But Crunch and Bullet Punch serve two different purposes. Do i want to hit Gengar, Mismagius, and Aerodactyl in mid-to-late game, or do i want to kill Celebi, Cresselia, non choice scarf Rotom forms, and Dusknoir? I really lean toward Crunch, so thats my choice.
So, the only real issue for Lucario once it gets set up is again gengar and aero. mismagius cant OHKO it without some form of set up. Spiritomb also gives me problems. Again, this LUcario works so well with Salamence in mid-to-late game.
Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
-Dance Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Fang
As mentioned before, this, along with Lucario, are my two mid-to-late game sweepers.
A number of things need to be explained here. First, the Ev's. At max speed neutral nature, with one dragon dance, i at least tie all choice scarf users at neutral nature max speed. However, i handily outspeed scarftran, and almost all variants of scarfgon, scarfcelebi, and scarfrachi.
Next. Lum Berry over life orb. This is important because things that i generally wont be OHKO with Outrage, i wont be OHKO with a life orb outrage either. Generally that is. Also, Lum berry guards me against a spore or a Twave here or there, as well as curing me of confusion after outrage to reliably continue a sweep.
Now. Why am i choosing Fire Fang for my last slot, and concordantly EVing my Salamence to accomodate it? I do it for two very important reasons. Firstly, i really dont want a nature that lowers defense or Spd, just to get FireBlast or Flamethrower. Secondly, and much more importantly, the standard salamence cannot 2HKO many and probably most variants of Bronzong with its special fire attacks. Though it can OHKO skarmory with it, it cannot 2HKO bronzong. This salamence, after a DD, can 2HKO all Bronzong, and 3HKO all skarmory, with a small chance of 2HKO.
There are more reasons for me doing this. ill list them.
-Fire Fang is also useful for OHKO some weaker enemies that wouldnt normally fall to Earthquake. That way you dont have to lock yourself into Outrage. A Fireblast wouldnt cut it against these weaker enemies. well, at least not OHKO, but that is the point. Some of these pokemon include Breloom, Jumpluff(more common now for some reason), and any somewhat damaged weaker enemy. Like an azelf at 60% for instance.....
-I would rather sacrifice a 1HKO on Skarmory, to gain back a 2HKO on Bronzong, neutral defenses, another option for weaker enemies. The bronzongs that scare everyones salamences away do it because they can kill it with GyroBalls. Skarmory can only really brave bird, and it cant kill salamence, even if its above somehwere around 40-50% at the time. The best it can do is phaze it away. Thus, i can then use my sala as a tool later on to sweep, or if its too weak, as a last ditch intimidate and maybe a quick move before he dies.
-We will talk more about my logic at the end of my individual pokemon discussions.
------------Overall Strategy----------
Okay.
Let me start with the the TranCRess part of my team first.
To adequately counter scizor, weavile, lucario, and heracross, i need to "force" them to not use their fighting attacks on the switch to Heatran. That is what Cress is there for, as i can switch her in and then switch in heatran, or some other combo like that. You get the premise.
To adequately counter salamence and gyarados, i need a rest sleep talk cresselia. And, even that wont do the job all the way, especially if cresselia is already substantially hurt. so, that where heatran can come in to trap up an Outrage from salamence, and OHKO with HP Ice. It should be noted that Salamence will be nearly "forced" to use outrage when faced with CRess, as his other attacks do nearly nothing. As far as Gyarados, Cress will ALWAYS 2HKO with HP electric, but if i need help i can enlist help from salamence, hippo, or even blissey. Maybe even lucario on the revenge. You get the premise.
Cress also can counter electivire, and help out with kingdra and infernape.
Blisseys job is to spread some paralisys, keep the sweepers free of an incidental status, and counter all special attackers. For calm minders, i can switch in Hippo to help out and phaze.
Now for my offense, my goal is to let a little damage start to befall their team, before i strike. When i see a good oportunity for salamence or lucario to set up, ill take it. Set up, and attempt a sweep. If i get stopped or killed, then ill go back to my strategy of using the 4 "walls". Generally then, ill try to save my other sweeper for late game to sweep then, or else if i see a great opportunity ill take it.
It should be noted that my sweepers will help out in countering when necessary, and usually ill take that as a good set up time.
--------------Noticeable problems with team------
If i let the entry hazards pile up enough, then stall teams can become very troublesome. Usually though, if im smart enough with predicting, i can find a good opportunity to sweep, and ruin half or more of their team with one of my sweepers.
A well placed trick can ruin me. i hate trick.
I have considerable amount of trouble dealing with kingdra. Also, Not as bad as kingdra, but i also have trouble with NP maxape.
random choice scarfers will ruin my anticipation skills. some i now no to look out for are starmie and rotom forms. But i get so frustrated when i lose to them because i know that whenever that person plays a team with a CB tar, which is common, their team is shot. That is if their scarfed of course.
------------------Areas of expected criticism-----------
Well, obviously im looking for other opinions to help me improve my team to make it the best it can be. Its really good now, but i know it can be better. Im looking for as much information as each person can give me as possible. I want to hear every possibility.
Specifically, Blissey is my most questionable point. I'd like some real input there. Ev's, moves, and the such.
SOme criticism on Salamence is to be expected, but after i made my argument, i want to hear the responses, so that i can better asses my salamence.
Also, if there is a way or a pokemon or a combo or move or something to make kingdra and infernape less of an issue PLEASE let me know.
Otherwise, im looking to improve everywhere on the team. So ANY suggestion is open. Please reply :)
So, as a comprimise, I've attempted to create a team in which most of D/P serious threats are adequately countered. The others which aren't, are sort of half dealt with, but this will allow me to mount an effective offensive strategy as well, which can prove too hard to counter by the opposing team.
I'll explain in detail as i talk about the pokemon and afterwards as i conclude.
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 152 Def / 88 SpD
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Roar
The new EV suggestion on Shoddy works really well. I've tested a few different hippo's but this spread actually works the best. I still can take hits from TTar, Machamp and Flygon ridiculously well, as well as surprisingly taking quite a beating from the special side too. With this spread i am no longer afraid of jolteon, zapdos, tyraniboah, and others.
Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Electric
This thing has so many jobs, that it really is the crux of my team. It does the brunt of the work in countering Salamence and Gyarados, as well as being a critical Fighting resist to my team. I'll explain that part at the end.
HP electric >>> Charge Beam IMO as i wont be stalling late game too much, and Charge beam has a significant chance not to 2HKO gyarados.
It also helps counter infernape, although it wont do it all as I am not using Psychic. It also helps counter kingdra in a pinch.
It is a counter for Electivire, and also an O.K. breloom buffer.
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
Naive nature (+SpA, -SpD)
- Explosion
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice
- Overheat/Fire Blast
This pokemon has many jobs too.
First and foremost, it is a reliable OHKO counter to all forms of Lucario, weavile, Heracross, and Scizor. It can also OHKO outraging Salamence.
Also, it should be noted that Heatran is technically also a sweeper with that huge SpA. Nothing likes taking a STAB overheat or fireblast from this.
Heatran works very very well with Cresselia. IMO much better with Cress than Celebi. I will talk about the stategy here at the end.
As far as the last move, i lean toward overheat, as its rarely in for more than one turn anyway. and late sweeping is just about prediction anyway. Ill explain more about my overall strategy at the end.
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
-Aromatherapy
-Thunderwave
-Softboiled
-Seismic Toss
Well, here she is. IMO the best OU pokemon. She there for one thing and one thing only. Absorb ALL special attacks.
Actually, there is a little bit more to tell.
I'm really frustrated by her. I tried not to EV her this way, i really did. But i always kept coming back to this. Why? well the most obvious is that she actually takes physical hits surprisingly well. a non boosted waterfall does like 40% for example. Another reason is that Dugtrio can NEVER 2HKO Blissey.
So, here is probably my biggest dilemma. This is probably where i need the most criticism. I'm looking to try and keep Blissey on this team, and, if its manageable, keep aromatherapy on. Although, i realize, that may not be possible.
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Extremespeed
-Crunch/Bullet Punch
Along with Salamence, i call these two pokemon my mid-to-late game sweepers. They both serve two purposes. A: they both can switch in a in one hit finish off a weakened opponent if i need it or need a little help. and B: they have a 1 turn set up, and nearly no counters, especially both of them working together in mid-to-late game.
The choice in the last slot is pretty tough. Notice that Ice punch is not there. That is for two reasons. It is because most gliscor are ev'd to beat ice punch lucario anyway, and because a jolly lucario cannot sweep anywhere near as good as an Adamant one. But Crunch and Bullet Punch serve two different purposes. Do i want to hit Gengar, Mismagius, and Aerodactyl in mid-to-late game, or do i want to kill Celebi, Cresselia, non choice scarf Rotom forms, and Dusknoir? I really lean toward Crunch, so thats my choice.
So, the only real issue for Lucario once it gets set up is again gengar and aero. mismagius cant OHKO it without some form of set up. Spiritomb also gives me problems. Again, this LUcario works so well with Salamence in mid-to-late game.
Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
-Dance Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Fang
As mentioned before, this, along with Lucario, are my two mid-to-late game sweepers.
A number of things need to be explained here. First, the Ev's. At max speed neutral nature, with one dragon dance, i at least tie all choice scarf users at neutral nature max speed. However, i handily outspeed scarftran, and almost all variants of scarfgon, scarfcelebi, and scarfrachi.
Next. Lum Berry over life orb. This is important because things that i generally wont be OHKO with Outrage, i wont be OHKO with a life orb outrage either. Generally that is. Also, Lum berry guards me against a spore or a Twave here or there, as well as curing me of confusion after outrage to reliably continue a sweep.
Now. Why am i choosing Fire Fang for my last slot, and concordantly EVing my Salamence to accomodate it? I do it for two very important reasons. Firstly, i really dont want a nature that lowers defense or Spd, just to get FireBlast or Flamethrower. Secondly, and much more importantly, the standard salamence cannot 2HKO many and probably most variants of Bronzong with its special fire attacks. Though it can OHKO skarmory with it, it cannot 2HKO bronzong. This salamence, after a DD, can 2HKO all Bronzong, and 3HKO all skarmory, with a small chance of 2HKO.
There are more reasons for me doing this. ill list them.
-Fire Fang is also useful for OHKO some weaker enemies that wouldnt normally fall to Earthquake. That way you dont have to lock yourself into Outrage. A Fireblast wouldnt cut it against these weaker enemies. well, at least not OHKO, but that is the point. Some of these pokemon include Breloom, Jumpluff(more common now for some reason), and any somewhat damaged weaker enemy. Like an azelf at 60% for instance.....
-I would rather sacrifice a 1HKO on Skarmory, to gain back a 2HKO on Bronzong, neutral defenses, another option for weaker enemies. The bronzongs that scare everyones salamences away do it because they can kill it with GyroBalls. Skarmory can only really brave bird, and it cant kill salamence, even if its above somehwere around 40-50% at the time. The best it can do is phaze it away. Thus, i can then use my sala as a tool later on to sweep, or if its too weak, as a last ditch intimidate and maybe a quick move before he dies.
-We will talk more about my logic at the end of my individual pokemon discussions.
------------Overall Strategy----------
Okay.
Let me start with the the TranCRess part of my team first.
To adequately counter scizor, weavile, lucario, and heracross, i need to "force" them to not use their fighting attacks on the switch to Heatran. That is what Cress is there for, as i can switch her in and then switch in heatran, or some other combo like that. You get the premise.
To adequately counter salamence and gyarados, i need a rest sleep talk cresselia. And, even that wont do the job all the way, especially if cresselia is already substantially hurt. so, that where heatran can come in to trap up an Outrage from salamence, and OHKO with HP Ice. It should be noted that Salamence will be nearly "forced" to use outrage when faced with CRess, as his other attacks do nearly nothing. As far as Gyarados, Cress will ALWAYS 2HKO with HP electric, but if i need help i can enlist help from salamence, hippo, or even blissey. Maybe even lucario on the revenge. You get the premise.
Cress also can counter electivire, and help out with kingdra and infernape.
Blisseys job is to spread some paralisys, keep the sweepers free of an incidental status, and counter all special attackers. For calm minders, i can switch in Hippo to help out and phaze.
Now for my offense, my goal is to let a little damage start to befall their team, before i strike. When i see a good oportunity for salamence or lucario to set up, ill take it. Set up, and attempt a sweep. If i get stopped or killed, then ill go back to my strategy of using the 4 "walls". Generally then, ill try to save my other sweeper for late game to sweep then, or else if i see a great opportunity ill take it.
It should be noted that my sweepers will help out in countering when necessary, and usually ill take that as a good set up time.
--------------Noticeable problems with team------
If i let the entry hazards pile up enough, then stall teams can become very troublesome. Usually though, if im smart enough with predicting, i can find a good opportunity to sweep, and ruin half or more of their team with one of my sweepers.
A well placed trick can ruin me. i hate trick.
I have considerable amount of trouble dealing with kingdra. Also, Not as bad as kingdra, but i also have trouble with NP maxape.
random choice scarfers will ruin my anticipation skills. some i now no to look out for are starmie and rotom forms. But i get so frustrated when i lose to them because i know that whenever that person plays a team with a CB tar, which is common, their team is shot. That is if their scarfed of course.
------------------Areas of expected criticism-----------
Well, obviously im looking for other opinions to help me improve my team to make it the best it can be. Its really good now, but i know it can be better. Im looking for as much information as each person can give me as possible. I want to hear every possibility.
Specifically, Blissey is my most questionable point. I'd like some real input there. Ev's, moves, and the such.
SOme criticism on Salamence is to be expected, but after i made my argument, i want to hear the responses, so that i can better asses my salamence.
Also, if there is a way or a pokemon or a combo or move or something to make kingdra and infernape less of an issue PLEASE let me know.
Otherwise, im looking to improve everywhere on the team. So ANY suggestion is open. Please reply :)
