Resource RU Old Gens Hub MK II (Feat USM RU)

MrAldo

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RU Old Gens Hub

oldgens_hub.png



Welcome to the RU Old Gens Hub. Given that RU is a pretty young tier compared to others like UU and NU (RU was introduced on the 5th generation of Pokemon) this thread will contain resources for - Black and White RU. and ORAS RU, and now USM RU. This thread will serve as a place to discuss each of these respective generations. Different posts will contain viability rankings, sample teams, and lists of mechanics with major variations from the current generation. Feel free to discuss your favorite aspects of these metagames, underrated threats, teams you wanna share, if you wanna challenge somebody or whatever.

Basic forum etiquette rules apply.


:blastoise-mega:USM RESOURCES:blastoise-mega:
:venusaur: ORAS RESOURCES :venusaur:
:moltres: BW RESOURCES :moltres:
 
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MrAldo

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USM RU

Generation 7 specific changes/mechanics:
Credit to roman and all the people that contributed to this project in the past

S RANK:

154872
Metagross
Salazzle
Virizion

A RANK:

A+:


Mandibuzz
Registeel
Roserade

A:

Blastoise-Mega
Donphan
Golisopod
Necrozma
Nidoqueen
Ninetales
Noivern
Slowbro
Toxicroak

A-:

Florges
Gardevoir
Passimian
Raikou
Shaymin
Sceptile-Mega

B RANK:

B+:


Abomasnow-Mega
Araquanid
Bewear
Bronzong
Diancie
Dragalge
Drapion
Flygon
Goodra
Hariyama
Houndoom
Machamp
Milotic
Mismagius
Rhyperior
Sigilyph
Tyrantrum
Zygarde-10%

B:

Arcanine
Aerodactyl
Barbaracle
Cresselia
Escavalier
Forretress
Gigalith
Lycanroc-Dusk
Mantine
Palossand
Porygon2
Slowking
Snorlax
Swellow
Vaporeon
Xatu
Yanmega

B-:

Alolan Marowak
Gastrodon
Honchkrow
Medicham
Pangoro
Ribombee
Tsareena

C RANK:

C+:


Ampharos-Mega
Ditto
Espeon
175443
Garbodor
Klinklang
154870
Sawk
Seismitoad
Sneasel
Stoutland
175442
Tangela
Umbreon
Venusaur

C:

Articuno
Cloyster
Dhelmise
Galvantula
Glalie-Mega
Golbat
Slurpuff
Steelix
Vivillon
Uxie
Vanilluxe

C-:

Emboar
Pyukumuku
Rotom-C
Vikavolt

D RANK:

Banette-Mega
Jolteon

https://pokepast.es/53add90d623e1d18

Ninetales @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower


Noivern @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Flamethrower
- Roost


Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge


Golisopod @ Insect Plate
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 104 HP / 240 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Leech Life
- Drill Run
- Aqua Jet


Roserade @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
 
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MrAldo

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ORAS RU


Generation 6 specific mechanics:
  • Burn damage deals 12% damage unlike in SM which has been reduced to 6%
  • Hidden Powers are IV dependant unlike in SM where you can have perfect IVs with any hidden power.
  • Crit chance ratio is of 6.25% unlike in SM where it has been reduced to around 4.16%
  • Paralysis status reduces speed by 75% unlike SM which has been decreased to 50%
Credit to phantom and to everyone involved in the building of this at the time

S RANK:
The best of the best. Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the RU metagame and are a clear-cut above the rest of the tier. These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for and/or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Alomomola
Flygon
Venusaur

A RANK:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame and can perform well against most play styles, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time. Pokemon in this rank are also known to define the play styles they fit on or are easy to add on any given team, while being able to carry their weight nearly every match.

A+ Rank

Diancie
Drapion
Magneton
Registeel
Sigilyph
Sneasel
Virizion

A Rank

Camerupt-Mega
Escavalier
Glalie-Mega
Jellicent
Medicham
Meloetta
Rhyperior
Slowking

A- Rank

Absol
Aerodactyl
Audino-Mega
Blastoise
Emboar
Jolteon
Sawk
Scrafty
Uxie

B RANK:
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job, are setup bait for dangerous sweepers, or often give too many free turns. Pokemon who are partially outperformed or struggle with taking on the Pokemon in the A or S Rank, but are otherwise dangerous in their own right and aren't difficult to fit on teams, may also fall into this category.

B+ Rank

Braviary
Bronzong
Exploud
Garbodor
Granbull
Gurdurr
Hitmonlee
Houndoom
Rotom-Mow
Seismitoad
Steelix
Xatu

B Rank

Delphox
Fletchinder
Gallade
Hoopa
Malamar
Rotom
Spiritomb
Torterra
Vivillon
Weezing

B- Rank

Abomasnow
Accelgor
Druddigon
Gourgeist XL
Hariyama
Mesprit
Musharna
Omastar
Piloswine
Scyther

C RANK:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective in the right setting, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks. Pokemon in this rank typically require more extensive support, struggle performing against the Pokemon ranked above, and are difficult to fit on teams.

C+ Rank

Aggron
Aromatisse
Aurorus
Banette (mega)
Barbaracle
Clawitzer
Golbat
Lanturn
Poliwrath
Sceptile
Togetic

C Rank

Eelektross
Ferroseed
Hitmontop
Kabutops
Liepard
Ludicolo
Manectric
Pelipper
Quagsire
Qwilfish
Samurott
Skuntank

C- Rank

Archeops
Articuno
Cofagrigus
Jynx
Klinklang
Lilligant
Roselia
Rotom-S
Smeargle

MERU RANK aka BLACKLISTED aka D RANK:
The worst of the worst. Bad pkmn (RU Pokemon by usage that are bad will be listed here. Everything not listed also falls in here). Unviable Pokemon that have been repeatedly brought up in this thread, whether they're RU by usage or not, will also be listed here. Discussion on these Pokemon often tends to derail the thread, and therefore discussion on them is not allowed.

D Rank

Ambipom
Cinccino

D- Rank

Typhlosion

Moving them eventually
 
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MrAldo

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BW RU


Generation 5 specific mechanics:
  • Dark and Ghost are resisted by Steel instead of neutral
  • Sleep turns reset to 0 when you switch out.
  • Hidden Power has a max base power of 70, and the base power depends on the Pokemon's IVs.
  • Grass-types can be affected by powder moves like Spore, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore unless they have an ability to avoid it.
  • Electric-types can be paralyzed by Thunder Wave unless they have an ability to avoid it.
  • Critical Hits deal double the damage instead of x1.5 from Gen 6 onwards.
  • Several other moves had different base power, PP, or accuracy.
Credit to Molk and the rest of the RU community at the time for compiling this.

S Rank: Reserved for the top threats in the RU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well with little to no extra support. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.


Druddigon


Durant


Moltres

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the RU metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively, but still perform less consistently than the average S rank Pokemon. A rank Pokemon have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.

Top:


Alomomola


Kabutops


Magneton


Qwilfish


Rotom-C


Sceptile


Sigilyph

Mid:


Aerodactyl


Amoonguss


Golurk


Lilligant


Rotom-N


Slowking


Steelix


Uxie

Low:


Aggron


Cryogonal


Entei


Gallade


Jynx


Lanturn


Mesprit


Omastar


Rhydon


Scolipede


Smeargle


Tangrowth


Torterra

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who are slightly above average in the RU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential

Top:


Absol


Accelgor


Braviary


Cinccino


Clefable


Escavalier


Emboar


Ferroseed


Garbodor


Gothorita


Manectric


Piloswine


Roselia


Spiritomb

Mid:


Archeops


Bouffalant


Crustle


Drapion


Exeggutor


Fraxure


Galvantula


Haunter


Hitmonlee


Kangaskhan


Klinklang


Ludicolo


Medicham


Rotom-F


Sawsbuck


Scyther


Seismitoad


Tauros


Zangoose

Low:


Altaria


Drifblim


Feraligatr


Gurdurr


Hariyama


Magmortar


Misdreavus


Miltank


Musharna


Poliwrath


Regirock


Samurott


Swellow


Typhlosion

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being top tier threats. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be as effective as higher ranked Pokemon in RU. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

Top:


Cacturne


Carracosta


Charizard


Crawdaunt


Dragonair


Duosion


Eelektross


Gardevoir


Hitmonchan


Mandibuzz


Pinsir


Primeape


Shiftry


Zweilous

Mid:


Electivire


Kadabra


Quagsire


Rotom-Spin


Swanna


Victreebel

Low:


Arbok


Basculin


Butterfree


Camerupt


Gabite


Lickilicky


Liepard


Murkrow


Relicanth


Sandslash


Scraggy


Vigoroth


Volbeat


Weezing


Whimsicott

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are below average in the RU metagame. These Pokemon often require very significant amounts of support with a relatively low reward compared to higher ranked Pokemon.

Top:


Ditto


Flareon


Leafeon


Linoone


Marowak


Muk


Riolu


Serperior


Simipour


Skuntank


Torkoal

Low:


Articuno


Audino


Dusknoir


Golem


Gorebyss


Natu


Ninjask


Rapidash


Shedinja


Shelgon


Swoobat


Vileplume


 
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Molk

Godlike Usmash
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Imagine not having my Drifblim team in the sample teams section for BW even though i made a post about it in the old thread and talked about the team and how to use it at great length.

Couldn't be me :(

Golurk @ Passho Berry
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Shadow Punch
- Toxic / Drain Punch / Fire Punch

Drifblim @ Flying Gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Destiny Bond

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave

Swellow @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Quick Attack

Kabutops @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Weak Armor / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall / Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Rapid Spin
- Aqua Jet

Emboar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
- Sleep Talk


Molk said:
I thought a good way to end this post would be to post a team that utilized one of the cores that i presented. I have to tell all of you, the team you're currently looking at is, through all generations that i've played competitive Pokemon, one of my absolute favorite teams to pilot of all time. I took the concept of this team and just ran with it back then. Not just did i use Drifblim to soften up Swellow's counters, but i went above and beyond to make counterplay to this team's win condition as difficult as i could. The Drifblim+Swellow core has great synergy with Spikes for various reasons that i already stated above, and seeing this, i decided to build the team so removing them would be as difficult as possible. If you look at the team, you'll see that it utilizes a double ghost core of Driblim+Golurk. This alone makes pulling off a successful Rapid Spin a difficult ordeal, although neither is *too* well equipped to deal with Kabutops or offensive Cryogonal (in all honesty, i added the Passho Berry to Golurk in hindsight to help it deal with Kabutops a bit more effectively, when i used this team it had Leftovers). However, the real kicker here comes in the form of Ferroseed, who not only has the staying power to both set up multiple layers of Spikes and potentially reset them later, but also has a good matchup against both Kabutops and Cryogonal. Kabutops requires Superpower to be particularly threatening to Ferroseed, defensive variations of Cryogonal struggle, and even offensive variations of HP Fire Cryogonal straight up lose to Ferroseed 1v1! (Technically if the Cryogonal is holding LO and SR is up, Ferroseed can potentially get OHKOed if the Cryogonal player gets a good roll, but a little bit of investment should patch that up). As an added bonus, Ferroseed can "punish" the opponent for successfully pulling off a Rapid Spin due to Iron Barbs, and tends to be able to use the bulky Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon that this team aims to weaken as Spikes fodder. Speaking of Rapid Spin, Kabutops was the team's own Rapid Spinner, to try and make sure that Swellow and Drifblim won't have to switch into SR too much. During the time that i used this team, it was extremely successful and an absolute blast to use, very few builds at the time were well equipped to handle this kind of obnoxious, dual "bird" spikestacking offense. However, i eventually did end up retiring this team because i felt like it struggled with certain Pokemon and builds that were becoming more commonplace, mainly augstall style builds due to Alomomola's ability to stomach hits from the team's dynamic duo and heal up the Pokemon the team sets out to weaken (although being Spikes fodder for Ferroseed helped a little), and Magneton due to the team's reliance on Ferroseed for success. However, i think this sort of style still has potential, and i even believe that this team in particular might still be workable in the current meta with a few tweaks to account for these things. If any of you have ideas on how to patch those up, feel free to comment below.
Also we had some discussion on changes to the BW VR and i don't think any of that actually ended up being implemented.

EDIT: sorry if this post came across as rude by the way, "imagine (insert thing here) couldn't be me" is a G&W thing lol
 
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Re: Molk's post, there are some good teams and posts in the old VR, which I think would be good to have merged.

Going to quickly share some of my most recent BW RU teams. I have a post in the old VR with my thoughts on the metagame, which have more or less stayed the same, so I'm just going to drop the teams with some minimal explanation. These teams being my most recent have been ones where I've been highly experimental in trying different anti-meta techniques. I think some are in fact very good top tier teams, while others are good but certainty have major flaws which perhaps makes them a few inches short of metagame standard.

https://pokepast.es/4cc3ac3c451eb9bd

This is a rain team. The idea was, in addition to using rain, to abuse the redundancy of Rock / Water physical attackers to break each others checks and sweep. For this reason, spikes were included as well. Banette is a niche pick which ended up being highly effective, being able to spinblock, whilst punishing traditional rain checks like Slowking. I think this is a top quality team.

https://pokepast.es/26b5f0bde14c4772

This is one of my first attempts at building Trick Room, which I think is a strategy obviously underutilized in such an offensive metagame. It trades an abundance of Trick Roomers for added offensive threats, meaning it requires being played somewhat aggressively so as to not run out of momentum. I think it in general is a very strong team, although Steelix (added as a soft durant check) has proved to be underwhelming, and would probably be better replaced with a different Pokemon choice.

https://pokepast.es/4e4ad44524f08717

This squad was developed half seriously at first, although I quickly realized it had potential, and pushed through various iterations. This, being the final version, is designed to abuse the strength of gen 5 T-wave, being 100% accurate and hitting electric types, to play the odds and stall out traditional teams relying on standard balanced offense mons. It is difficult to play with, and can fall apart quickly with simple mistakes, however I think based on the math of the odds, its a sound concept. I think this sort of archetype and variations might be worth further exploration.

https://pokepast.es/2fdd89aa8e632f4f

The idea behind this team was to abuse the explosiveness of the Sun Sweeper Victrebell in this tier, without fully committing to a sun archetype. Regigigas to that end was exploited as an unorthodox sun-setter, to provide an unexpected and potentially devastating late-game combo when paired with other traditional hyper-offense staples. I think this team is very strong.
 
hey y'all, I'm taking over this thread for Aldo.

Old Gens hasn't received much attention lately with the chaos of Generation 8 taking up most of the tier contributors energy, but I would like to start working towards some improvements towards this section of the forum for newcomers and to keep discussion around these metagames active. The first step I want to take is to actually put some sample teams up, and ones of high quality. I am hoping to get 8 - 10 well documented teams for each metagame, from a variety of different players in order to showcase different building styles and takes on each metagame. If you'd like to contribute to this, please PM me. In addition, I am going to try to start adding sample sets for the top Pokemon in each metagame, to which all are welcome to contribute. Thanks!
 
ehy, I'm here to drop off a quirky & successful SM team I made some time ago.

https://pokepast.es/c831197b2210a2e3

This team was originally an ORAS team in RU WCOP that nobody could win with, so I tried to use the same 6 in SM and it worked out pretty well. The premise is that you annoy stuff with trick gourgeist+weezing, get multi-hazards up and eventually sweep w/ scrafty or barb. I've always found barb to be an incredibly annoying sweeper to a lot of teams & it's usually what wins here.

Weezing+Bronzong have pretty decent defensive synergy. If you want to opt for heatproof on zong to help w/ tales that's also viable, since you have enough ground stops in weezing/gourgeist/flygon. Gourgeist is timid so that you outspeed mega-stoise post trick. I definitely feel stoise is the biggest pain to this team if anything. Scarf flygon is just for speedy utility/support.

I only used it twice in team tours I believe but here it is in action, albeit different gourgeist size.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-460573 - RU WCOP where the team was originally concocted
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-1024956525 - LTPL

I'd like to wager that if your opponent doesn't know what to expect or missteps it can definitely end really quickly, as partially viewable here.
 
Since this is gonna get rebranded i figured ill make a post. First, heres a team that i wanted to share. Only one cause my builds are mainly cteammy, sry about that :psycry:. Now, i wanted to discuss the overall SM RU VR, as i feel like its very outdated. Gonna remake the entier VR with reasonings if i feel like to give them.

S RANK:

154872
Metagross
Roserade
Virizion

A RANK:

A+:


Golisopod
Mandibuzz
Necrozma
Nidoqueen
Registeel
Salazzle
Sceptile-Mega

A:


Blastoise-Mega
Donphan
Ninetales
Noivern
Slowbro
Toxicroak

A-:
Araquanid
Drapion
Gardevoir
Passimian
Raikou
Slowking
Snorlax

B RANK:

B+:



Abomasnow-Mega
Aerodactyl
Bewear
Bronzong
Cresselia
Diancie
Dragalge
Drapion
Florges
Flygon
Goodra
Houndoom
Machamp
Milotic
Mismagius
:pangoro: Pangoro
Rhyperior
Sigilyph
Tyrantrum
Xatu
Zygarde-10%

B:


Arcanine
Barbaracle
Dhelmise (good mon that checks a lot of relevant threats and hits hard, the trapping set is very annoying too)
Escavalier
Forretress
Gigalith
Lycanroc-Dusk
Palossand
Porygon2
Shaymin

B-:

Alolan Marowak
Espeon
175443
Garbodor
Gastrodon
Hariyama
Honchkrow
Ribombee
Tsareena
Vaporeon
Yanmega

C RANK:

C+:



Ditto
Mantine
154870
Sawk
Seismitoad
Sneasel
Swellow
Stoutland
175442
Tangela
Umbreon

C:

:ampharos-mega: Ampharos-Mega
Articuno
Cloyster
Glalie-Mega
Golbat
Steelix
Uxie
Vanilluxe
Venusaur


D RANK:

Banette-Mega
:galvantula: Galvantula
Jolteon
Rotom-C (this mon realistically never saw usage and for good reasons.)
 
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Feliburn

Trance
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hey, figured it was time that the ORAS VR got a revamp, as I feel it's v outdated:

S -> A/A+
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A ->B+
A -> A-
A- -> B+
A- ->B-
A- -> B+
A- -> B
A- -> B
A- -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> C+
B+ -> B
B- -> C+


A -> A+
B+ -> A-
B -> A/A+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
C -> C+
C- -> B
D -> C+


s/o Ajna for helping me w/ some of these

I was gonna put explanations for them but I ended up swapping a lot of mons, so I'll try to make it as general as possible:

Starting with the biggest drop is Alomomola falling to A+, I'd even argue that it is an A rank tier pokemon. Reasoning behind this is how much the meta pressures it, mola is no longer the unkillable wish passer it once felt like, it has become a mon that allows ppl to abuse its passiveness to set up and apply pressure to the mola user. It's still the best wish passer in the tier and one of the best Sneasel answers, however it has for sure fallen from grace as the meta advances. The other mons are just not as great as they were when they were ranked where they are ROFL. If you disagree with me on any of these I'll be more than happy to elaborate on my specific thoughts on the mon.

On to the rises, the bigger one is Gallade to A, probably even A+ considering how amazing it is. It finds so many opportunities to set up in front of common pokemon like Regi, Venu, Slowking, Alomomola, and thanks to its bulk and typing it's able to come on top on exchanges vs common revenge killers like Drapion, Flygon and Sneasel if healthy enough (which isnt hard when u can drain punch half the tier). Next up are 2 bottom ranked pokemon like Cinccino and Cofagrigus, Cofag is easier to explain as it is a v strong wincon with the CM block set, a v matchupy set but it actually gets off blocks vs a good portion of the tier, making it way better than most of the pokemon ranked above it. Cinccino got a smaller boot to C+ from D rank but let's be honest, a pokemon with knock off, u-turn, strong stab in tail slap and bullet seed coverage isn't at least useful in this tier. Rest are just mons that seem to have a bigger niche than they once did in the current meta. Similar to above, I'll elaborate individually if u want me to.
 

lighthouses

Chasing after dreamers in the clouds
is a Tiering Contributor
Just gonna drop some random thoughts/suggestions, not an invitation to debate or anything like that you guys feel free to follow if youd like.

SM
A to A+
A to A+
B+ to A
B+ to A
B to B+ or A-
A to A+


A+ to A
A- to B+
A- to B+
B+ to B-


I also strongly believe that rose should be s rank in place of virizion but i realize that this would be a whole debate and frankly i don't really care enough rofl
I also agree with most of the ORAS changes propposed by the best couple so i won't bother you guys with those
 

termi

the eye of the needle
is a Tiering Contributor
Hiii! After a few users posted about the SM VR last year nothing changed which is sad because there's a lot that should be changed around, it's very outdated. idk how exactly VR updates are supposed to happen for old metas but I'm sure something of a vote can be worked out between people who still play the meta in tournaments or whatever. Here's a bunch of somewhat ordered thoughts of myself on things that should definitely be reconsidered.

Metagame staples that are not ranked where metagame staples should be ranked:

:diancie: B+ -> A: The user above me nommed this a while ago but yeah basically Diancie is epic and actually one of the best rockers we have. I've used both bulky sets with Heal Bell and offensive sets and they're great, pairing really well with other staples like Slowbro, mandibuzz, and Metagross, allowing the latter to run more interesting sets than SR Iapapa like CB, Scarf, or more niche sets like Demongross or mixed lure. One thing I love about it is that it annoys pretty much every common form of hazard removal, as Mandibuzz is basically countered by it, other Flying types like Xatu and Sigilyph obviously get smacked by Diamond Storm, and Donphan and Stoise don't appreciate getting chunked by Moonblast. Speaking of, specially defensive Diancie is a solid Stoise check as the latter usually forgoes Water STAB for Aura Sphere, while Diancie also checks a lot of other key threats like Noivern and Salazzle. Very very splashable mon, needs a significant bump in the rankings.

:slowbro: A -> A+: Regenerator is broken, simple as. Although I think a lot of people rate Ice Beam the real danger imo is Toxic, as it fucks with a ton of common checks like Stoise, Mandi, and non-Refresh Milotic and still annoys Ice Beam's targets a bunch. It's extremely good at staying alive and reliably checking physical threats while not being a passive piece of shit. Very essential mon in a tier where teambuilding is as constrained as it is since it gives you a lot of breathing room with the rest of the team.

:roserade: A+ -> S: Kills like 95% of the meta and clicks Spikes on the other 5%. Super versatile, very very hard to check in the teambuilder if you're not opting for passive ass Regi, kinda self-evident imo.

:flygon: B+ -> A-/A: #7 most used mon in RU Snake's latest iteration and the current #1 in RUPL, Flygon turns out to actually be very good and splashable despite it being laughed at as a shittier Zydog throughout most of the gen. Again I have to mention how constrained building is and how easily Scarf Flygon frees up building by having a lot of useful resists (offensive check to Lazzle, Raikou, Nidoqueen) while being a great offensive pivot that doesn't give a shit about hazards in a meta where hazard control is, and I will be saying this a lot, dogshit.

:drapion: B+ -> A-/A: Very tight mon, Choice sets especially do really well because Knock is very easy to spam and there's several things that can be kept real if you Pursuit trap them. Nice mon to put on teams that use a passive rocker since it gives you a way of getting rid of Xatu and Defog Sigilyph, which otherwise just make things really difficult for Registeel teams. Another major target is Roserade which as I mentioned before is hellish to check defensively in a lot of cases, meanhilw if you're CB Pursuit OHKOs on the switch which is nice as hell. Also invalidates Bronzong teams (will get to this later) because as it turns out if your bulky Steel has a tendency of getting trapped you're sorta fucked. The typing and physical bulk also has to be mentioned as it gives this thing a ton of miscellaneous utility, absorbing Tspikes and checking Virizion if Scarf. Good mon.

Things that were mentioned before that I probably would support but don't feel strongly enough about to write on: Noivern to A+, Necrozma to A+, Nidoqueen to A+, Slowking to B+


Fire types suck:

:salazzle: S -> A+: Very annoying, dangerous, possibly broken, but at the same time its SR weakness makes it kind of a pain to build with and its threat level on paper means that pretty much any builder in SM will do their best to cover for this mon as well as they can. Admittedly covering for it is always difficult since between variance in what Hidden Power it runs and the raw power of +2 Acid Downpour there are practically no reliable switchins besides AV Slowking, AV/Scarf Goodra, Dragalge, and Gigalith, most of which aren't the easiest fits on teams. At the same time, thanks to its frailty and SR weakness you only really need to pivot around it with mons like Noivern, Diancie, Scarfed Poison resists etc to keep it at bay as it typically will not be able to come in and threaten things throughout the match more than once or twice. The difficulties it faces are clearly reflected in team tours like RUPL, where Salazzle consistently struggles to make it into the top 20 most used mons. That just doesn't scream S rank to me.

:ninetales: A -> B: For sure unviable. While it's certainly a dangerous breaker on paper and a nuisance in the builder, it's actually rather hard to fit it on teams and get it to work. Building in SM is a very precise affair in my experience and typically your breakers need to pull their weight defensively or at least be very reliable where it comes to breaking the opponent's team. Ninetales does neither of these things as it is weak to SR in a meta with godawful hazard control and cannot switch in reliably to practically anything due to a lack of useful resists. Its main competitor, Salazzle, at least has the benefit of Poison typing and a great speed tier that allows it to decently check things like Roserade and Virizion at least once throughout the match. When Ninetales does manage to come in, kills are not guaranteed, as bulky Fire resists like Slowbro and Diancie and fast Fire resists like Noivern and Scarf Flygon are very common and good. Whether it is Specs or NP, it is therefore very reliant on getting the right predictions during the few turns in the match where it gets to do anything. To me, this mon is more of a "matchup fish" than anything else, which is not to say that it's not very dangerous in the right hands, but absolutely not deserving of sitting in the top ranks despite its power on paper.

:arcanine: B -> C or whatever: See above except it's a bit slower, worse at breaking, walled by Slowbro and Diancie, doesn't have a boosting move, dies very quickly between SR weakness and recoil, don't even bring up defensive. Keeping this thing ranked is already sorta generous but I want to hold out the hope that there's something this mon doesn't suck at, however I doubt it.


Miscellaneous noms:

:bronzong: B+ -> B/B-: I will never miss an opportunity to complain about Bronzong and how ass it is, although I think enough people have other thoughts on this mon that it probably doesn't matter much. It for sure has some very nice abilities that give it more role compression ability than a similar mon in Registeel, allowing it to check otherwise annoying mons like Nidoqueen with Levitate and Salazzle with Heatproof, although the loss in bulk is noticeable imo. However, I really hate that this mon is so easily trapped, as any matchup vs Drapion or Escavalier (kinda bad imo but I digress) leaves you sorta fucked because your defensive lynchpin is constantly at risk of getting trapped and essentially eliminated from play. You can, and in fact should, run Earthquake to mitigate the Drapion issue, but not only does this prevent you from running Protect which imo would typically be a much more optimal set for a mon so reliant on passive recovery, but even this is not enough as unlike Metagross you are too weak to do serious damage to Drap (example: this recent replay of mine from RUPL). Essentially this problem in addition to the general competition it gets from other Steels (and Diancie) leaves it feeling a bit too much like a matchup fish for what's supposed to be a defensive staple of your team. I would rather put Forretress on my team than this thing so you can tell it's a pretty dire situation.

:dhelmise: C or wherever it is rn -> B: Won't really elaborate as Luna already gave explanation but this thing's not half bad and can seriously fuck you over if your hazard control is Donphan.

:shaymin: A- -> B: Not bad but we have too many other Grass types that are quite simply better in a lot of cases. In fact I think the only reason you'd run this thing is for Leech Seed sets which are kinda annoying but hard to justify unless you explicitly build around it. Should see a significant drop.

:yanmega: B -> C or whatever: If you're gonna be 4x weak to SR in this meta you really gotta have something seriously good going on for yourself imo and Yanmega just falls short. Too many good specially fat mons like Registeel and Mandi in the meta for it to do any serious breaking vs a lot of teams whereas it's borderline impossible to sweep with Speed Boost. Meanwhile in order to make this thing work you need good hazard control which does not really, you know, exist. Bad!

As a general point, looking at the size of B+ and the mons in it I feel like this subrank in particular deserves a pretty significant revamp, some of these could easily be A- mons whereas several of these definitely feel too niche and hard to build with to be so high up.


The Unviables:

There's a bunch of things that are ranked when they really just are not good. All of the following should be unranked/go to D rank in my very humble opinion:

:galvantula::ampharos-mega::rotom-mow:: Electric types that are not Raikou are unviable in this meta. Galvantula is bad and you should never run it, as it sucks and I have not seen anyone make a serious attempt at integrating it into a serious competitive team in perhaps a century. If you need Webs you go Araquanid 100% of the time and if you need a breaker just pick literally anything else. Fabio used to be cool and nice and I'm sad to say it but it's absolutely terrible and cannot be justified in practice because it is painfully slow, easily worn down, and not good enough at breaking things to justify being ranked. Mowtom doesn't look terrible on paper until you realize Virizion/Roserade/Mega Sceptile are all very common and prevent it from ever cleaning with Scarf sets while also being way better Grass types to fit on your team than this thing. I excluded Vikavolt from this because it seems like it could be a Virizion check with Roost and Air Slash or something although frankly it's another case where idk when I would put it on my team in practice. Maybe people have experience with it and can vouch for it or whatever.

:emboar:: bigpig

:vivillon:: Between the fact that every team will have a bulky Steel or a Diancie or some shit and the fact that it's not too hard to pick off with priority or a faster Scarfer once weakened (or not weakened at all if Screens are off), is this thing ever sweeping? The answer is no. This mon is bad.

:vaporeon: Someone put this in B apparently so maybe I'm mistaken and this thing has a niche but frankly to me this looks like unviable garbage that should not be used. I don't care that it passes Wish to Registeel or whatever, use Synthesis Wish Florges if you really have to do that and use a bulky water that doesn't suck.

ok whatever im done
 

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