RU Stage 2 - Welcome Back (RU Beta Starts | Light Clay banned, see post #30)

[Feliburn]

Welcome to the much awaited RU Beta!​

Magnezone moved from New to UU

Alomomola moved from UU to RU
Charizard moved from UU to RU
Ditto moved from UU to RU
Klefki moved from UU to RU

RU List

Abomasnow moved from New to RU
Altaria moved from New to RU
Arboliva moved from New to RU
Arcanine moved from New to RU
Avalugg moved from New to RU
Bellibolt moved from New to RU
Blissey moved from New to RU
Bombirdier moved from New to RU
Bronzong moved from New to RU
Cetitan moved from New to RU
Cloyster moved from New to RU
Coalossal moved from New to RU
Cryogonal moved from New to RU
Dachsbun moved from New to RU
Dragalge moved from New to RU
Drednaw moved from New to RU
Espeon moved from New to RU
Flamigo moved from New to RU
Florges moved from New to RU
Froslass moved from New to RU
Gardevoir moved from New to RU
Hariyama moved from New to RU
Haxorus moved from New to RU
Heracross moved from New to RU
Komala moved from New to RU
Krookodile moved from New to RU
Lycanroc-Dusk moved from New to RU
Mismagius moved from New to RU
Mudsdale moved from New to RU
Naclstack moved from NFE to RU
Palossand moved from New to RU
Primeape moved from NFE to RU
Revavroom moved from New to RU
Rotom-Heat moved from New to RU
Rotom-Mow moved from New to RU
Sableye moved from New to RU
Salazzle moved from New to RU
Slowbro moved from New to RU
Sylveon moved from New to RU
Tatsugiri moved from New to RU
Tauros-Paldea-Blaze moved from New to RU
Toxtricity moved from New to RU
Weavile moved from New to RU

Once again we have lost Magnezone, and Charizard, Klefki, Ditto and Alomomola return to the RU tier, SHOCKER.

But before we get into the Beta phase of our tier.....



Haxorus & Lycanroc-Dusk are now banned from RU!

The RU Council has decided to vote on these 2 mons, as they have been the most dominating forces in the tier this past alpha month. They are able to set up and just break through every team that isn't heavily prepped for them, making them unhealthy for the current tier. Tagging Marty & Kris to implement please and thank you!

You can find the votes here:

Votes

EviGaro didn't get to vote, but it didn't matter in the end... also s/o Bebo for his final vote!

The RU council is still discussing the current state of the metagame, but in order to speed up the important changes, we went ahead and posted the suspect slate. So maybe expect some more updates soon!

 

[DiamondDiancie25]

As much as I loved abusing tera banded outrage with Haxorus, I'm happy it's gone. That thing killed almost the entire tier WITHOUT setup, and if you give even a single free turn to LO DDance sets, you are very likely to get run right over from there

 

[Sneakyplanner]

In non-ban related developments, we lost magnezone and gained klefki. Both are steel types with great defensive typings but losing magnezone is a pretty big deal for teams that wanted a bulky pivot and gaining klefki is going to make screens HO and spike stacking way stronger. Hazard control is already pretty dire, and I feel like a core of klefki, palossand for spinblocking and Braviary for punishing defog will be very common.

 

[Bebo]

hey guys thanks for having me as ur council for the past 7 years it was a pleasure and i'm glad this was my last vote much love <3

i'd like to give you guys my pov behind my votes and show you my reasoning behind my votes as i am the outcast!

Lycanroc-Dusk, a Rock-type Pokemon, has several weaknesses that make it a less desirable choice for many trainers. One of its biggest weaknesses is its vulnerability to Water and Grass-type moves, which are super effective against Rock-types. This means that it is susceptible to taking heavy damage from common Pokemon that use these moves. Additionally, Lycanroc-Dusk also has a low Special Defense stat, making it vulnerable to Special Attack moves. Its lack of Speed also puts it at a disadvantage, as it will often be outsped by many of its opponents, leaving it open to taking damage before it has a chance to attack. Finally, its limited movepool can also be a hindrance, as it limits its options for both attacking and protecting itself in battle. All these factors combined make Lycanroc-Dusk a less desirable choice compared to other Pokemon in the RU tier.

Haxorus, a Dragon-type Pokemon, has several weaknesses that make it a less desirable choice for many trainers. One of its biggest weaknesses is its vulnerability to Ice and Dragon-type moves, which are super effective against Dragon-types. This means that it is susceptible to taking heavy damage from common Pokemon that use these moves. Additionally, Haxorus also has a low Defense stat, making it vulnerable to Physical Attack moves. Its lack of Speed also puts it at a disadvantage, as it will often be outsped by many of its opponents, leaving it open to taking damage before it has a chance to attack. Finally, its limited movepool can also be a hindrance, as it limits its options for both attacking and protecting itself in battle. All these factors combined make Haxorus a less desirable choice compared to other Pokemon in the RU tier.

 

[Lily]

wow Bebo that's really impressive writing, your dedication and commitment to the voting process is very commendable! you could submit this to a college professor and get fantastic marks! this grammar and syntax is also much better than your usual standard; why, if I didn't know any better, I'd almost assume this was written by a robot!

 

[CryoGyro]

if i see any of you writing like this i’ll make you a less desirable choice

 

[MrAldo]

After some though about how the meta will progress, Id seriously like to discuss a potential light clay ban or some discussion about it especially with klefki in the equation. Having 8 turns with still a pretty good amount of competent of setup sweepers without haxorus, I still believe it is way too uncompetitive and too much of a support for some already potent threats made even more potent with tera. Just something to think about for sure for sure. Some stuff to add to the post!

Bellibolt @ Leftovers
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 16 SpA / 48 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Muddy Water
- Acid Spray
- Slack Off

I honestly was skeptical at first of a slow bulky GROUNDED electric type being ever great but damn, this shutted the heck out of my mouth. I am a fan now. It is incredible and so hard so kill. Bulky electrics were born to spam discharge so make of that whatever you want, really great mon that offers a lot of resilience to a team.

This thing is honestly pretty incredible, but I feel for a couple of unhealthy reasons. I feel it is barely manageable on the current state of affairs since thankfully phys def walls are honestly pretty good right now but damn is this thing hard af to stop properly. Scarf Tera Flying and whatever-you-want for coverage Tera Band or SD are pretty damn crazy. Even for purely defensive walls it is tricky if you want an SD Roost set of some sort. Now, I am not witch hunting or anything, just wanting to spark some discussion, and I think it is fair to say that thing is honestly really damn good, maybe a bit too much. At least the defensive value it offers is really damn cool so yeah, I really like having a mon like this. Thank God it doesnt learn knock off.

Drednaw @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Strong Jaw
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Liquidation
- Crunch
- Stone Edge / Earthquake

Monster. Really damn scary setup sweeper and with the right item it is downright repulsive to even handle properly. Tera Dark with Crunch is honestly pretty much the only coverage you need on this, and from there edge or earthquake is the last option to see what you wanna hit tbh. Straightforward, but damn, it is so crazy. Much crazy than cloyster since the coverage makes it much more effective and it is such an efficient tera abuser. Under screens... glorious.


On a more positive note, some other I have tried:

Revavroom @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overcoat
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Haze
- Spin Out
- Toxic / Toxic Spikes
- Parting Shot

I honestly LOVE this thing. Such cool utility to boot and with the investment really good at soft checking and pivoting around. Spin Out is honestly a pretty alright option, with a lot of power behind it even with no investment. Lowering speed isnt that bad of a trade-off considering parting shot and man, naturally learning toxic is so valuable these days given the lack of toxic distribution. Big fan, this is gonna be useful for a good while.

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Night Slash
- Low Kick
- Ice Shard / Icicle Crash

Maybe I am pushing the narrative a bit too hard but listen! Without lycanroc for competition this thing and scald being removed from basically everyone I believe in this set. With tera fighting and the coverage it can pose a pretty important threat on the late-game, and having the shard for the migo is pretty nice. Think the more the tier settle the more loveable this option could get. Trust me, I wouldnt recommend something shit, right?

For a more powerful dark this is the guy. Choice Band is amazing, it just kills shit and resists taking 40 at least. Good ass mon, oml. Definitely the premier dark type atm, really damn reliable!

Also Arboliva is BROKEN, that guy is killing resists! Thats incredible


Thats some of the stuff I have extensively tried. Nasty Plot Vacuum Wave Toxicroak is also hella lit cause we sniping them scar krooks and shell smashers while laughing in the face of the bro thinking it can beat us! HAH!

Cheers!

 

[Moon]

What's up, it's a walking pile of bones with hot takes. I have been enjoying laddering/spectating kickoff tour and thought it would be fun to create a visual for how I am seeing viability in the tier currently. This was done quickly and reflects my own whims more than anything.

Moon's VR

Ordered very loosely left to right and divided into semi evenly-sized groups for aesthetic purposes. There are a couple more totally fine NU mons that I haven't added here.
Flamingo:
Best:
Good:
Ok:
Snow:
Sus:

Some opinions:

• Flamigo is absolutely cracked, this is the best mon in the tier for me. That said I can understand why some are more focused on screens/Drednaw being potentially broken.
• Toxtricity I think is overrated and not broken, but still a great mon.
• The vroomer set Aldo has posted above is the most fun mon to use in the tier. It's much better and more consistent than I expected given its odd stat spread and typing.
• Most defensive options in the tier are passive and easily exploited by a number of setup mons. Some people have managed to make some cool balance teams work despite this, with scarf-lazzle as a revenge killer at times being a highlight.
• Zone was fine but the rise/drops don't look too impactful outside of klefki, which should be a prime option for spikes and screens. Mola and Zard are looking extremely sad, but maybe there are good sets to be found.

A couple mons that I think are sleeper hits:

Zoroark @ Black Glasses
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Tera Blast
Fun mon that sits at a great speed tier and is suitably threatening, illusion tricks aside. I'm sure there are plenty of other sets that can be good i.e. nasty plot, tera poison, etc. Can be a scary partner for Flamigo.


aoemica's dudunsparce (Dudunsparce) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Glare
AKA Druddigon. It's easy to underestimate its damage when invested with silk scarf. Can leverage decent natural bulk to trade 1v1 and is generally hard to beat with hazard removal. It's awkward to use a mon this slow that provides next to no defensive utility, but I think it deserves the occasional nod. This mon has a bonus effect of mind-flooding your ladder opponents into throwing away mons versus it as they are used to seeing meme sets. Pioneered by aoemica, speed creep may vary and you can try a few moves over glare such as roost or calm mind. Here's a calc since calcs always improve a forum post. Dudun can eventually pressure out and keep rocks up against even a max max altaria.
252+ SpA Silk Scarf Dudunsparce Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 157-186 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO

I'll end with dropping the team I used most to ladder during the initial meta, it is probably not as good now (avalugg stocks down).

old screenshot for credibility and posterity

Peace, listen to Purple Mountains

 

[Pabloaram]

Hi...
A few personal opinion on a few mons/playstiles:

Screens: with the lack of good defensive options (being the only "viable" unaware mon in the tier) setup sweepers have the easier time sweeping teams. You can't prepare against all on team building bc the lack of defensive option and outoffence mons behind klefki screens or aboma aurora veil is hard specially if you need to stall 8 screens turn. A potencial Light Clay ban or suspect can do wonders in this regard.
A good tech is Paldean Tauros signature move Raging Bull wich break screen and match great against the most common screens setter.

Gardevoir i think she isn't as good as people think. Yes, trace is good against weather but the speed and the lack of power outside of Terra Fairy Moonblast make his scarf set fairly useless in some matchups. Specially know that Revabroom and Klefki are common to make you do no progress on a match.

Primeape I feel this mon annoying against most bulkier builds. Taunt + eviolite boosted bulk is hard to maneuver around from defensive mons. A common check is another annoying mon..

Naclstack Talking off, this dude does the same thing as his evolution in OU: abuse is broken ass Salt Cure. The lack of Knock Off and the posibility to go Terra Ghost can make his IronPress hard to stop if you dont have something like a Toxtricity to punch trought

About the rest:
- Flamigo and Fighting- type are stronger rn. The flamingo friend is a S tier mon.
- Both Cloyster and Drednaw need to go asap. Both are fairly annoying specially under screens

Of the new mons i only feel Klefi and Alomomola have a niche. I already mention Klefki but Alomola can run a trapper set on more defensive/stall team.
Something like Whirpool + Chilling Water + Wishtect could be a thing

 

[schlondark]

Revavroom @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overcoat
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Haze
- Spin Out
- Toxic / Toxic Spikes
- Parting Shot

I honestly LOVE this thing. Such cool utility to boot and with the investment really good at soft checking and pivoting around. Spin Out is honestly a pretty alright option, with a lot of power behind it even with no investment. Lowering speed isnt that bad of a trade-off considering parting shot and man, naturally learning toxic is so valuable these days given the lack of toxic distribution. Big fan, this is gonna be useful for a good while.

You really shouldn't be running black sludge on a mon who is going to terra into a non-poison type

 

[TDanger]

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Protect

Been running this vaporeon set and honestly its been pretty good. The ability to threaten out pokemon it shouldn't just because it can start setting up is great, and throw in being able to wish pass, honestly its been much more useful than alomomola just thanks to how mola cant really force anything out, but vaporeon both has some offenses from the getgo and the ability to sit in front of cryagonal if you can calm mind, its just kinda better.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

View attachment 489739
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Protect


Been running this vaporeon set and honestly its been pretty good. The ability to threaten out pokemon it shouldn't just because it can start setting up is great, and throw in being able to wish pass, honestly its been much more useful than alomomola just thanks to how mola cant really force anything out, but vaporeon both has some offenses from the getgo and the ability to sit in front of cryagonal if you can calm mind, its just kinda better.

Vaporeon can’t sit in front of Cryogonal. Freeze Dry does a lot of damage to Vaporeon. That set also has no STAB move, so it really won’t be hitting hard until about +3 or 4 on anything neutral. IMO you would be better off with Sub CM Surf and either Ice Beam or Stored Power in the last slot

 

[TDanger]

Vaporeon can’t sit in front of Cryogonal. Freeze Dry does a lot of damage to Vaporeon. That set also has no STAB move, so it really won’t be hitting hard until about +3 or 4 on anything neutral. IMO you would be better off with Sub CM Surf and either Ice Beam or Stored Power in the last slot

Vaporeon shouldn't be able to sit in front of cryogonal but it does, thanks to cryogonal not being that strong. Surf works but with vaporeon you have to choose between surf for higher damage but you can't hit tatsugiri, or you can use ice beam and you're a bit weaker. Vaporeon has a great base 110 spatk so it hits a bit harder than you'd expect. The main power of the set is that by all accounts it functions as a normal defensive vaporeon until you find a chance to set up, which happens a lot due to its good mixed bulk.

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

Cryogonal can Haze away Calm Mind boosts from Vaporeon. You might be able to "sit" on it to an extent, however it's not a very favourable interaction. 252 SpA Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 194-230 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. (Granted, I'm not sure what exactly is the most common Cryogonal set people run, but sitting on smth with a freeze chance for a prolonged period of time doesn't sound great) Vaporeon shouldn't really be your Cryogonal answer but it can sit on it to an extent I guess. Maybe it would be better to run both Surf and Ice Beam. If you really wanted to hit Tatsugiri, I think Yawn might be better for that than Ice Beam as well.

 

[Pabloaram]

Cryogonal can Haze away Calm Mind boosts from Vaporeon. You might be able to "sit" on it to an extent, however it's not a very favourable interaction. 252 SpA Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 194-230 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. (Granted, I'm not sure what exactly is the most common Cryogonal set people run, but sitting on smth with a freeze chance for a prolonged period of time doesn't sound great) Vaporeon shouldn't really be your Cryogonal answer but it can sit on it to an extent I guess. Maybe it would be better to run both Surf and Ice Beam. If you really wanted to hit Tatsugiri, I think Yawn might be better for that than Ice Beam as well.

Talking about Tatsugiri...

Commander is worthless in singles but you know what is more worthless a scarf Gardevoir being +1 bc of Storm Drain...
If Garde continue to be top scarf mon you has the choice to run Commander in your Tatsugiri. Also you 4x resist water anyway

 

[EviGaro]

I'd be interested in seeing more discussion about screens in this tier, actually. It's no real secret that light clay has been quite discussed since alpha by Council members, and remains a contentious issue in the tier due to a ton of screens options - Klefki being added is a bit yikes as well - and a quantity of setup mons that are already threatening but just get way more mileage on those builds, like Oricorio, Frosmoth, Drednaw, or the obvious screens barometer Cloyster.

What are you guys' opinions on this? RULT is also super relevant to bring up if the experience there mattered obviously!

 

[TDanger]

Cryogonal can Haze away Calm Mind boosts from Vaporeon. You might be able to "sit" on it to an extent, however it's not a very favourable interaction. 252 SpA Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 194-230 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. (Granted, I'm not sure what exactly is the most common Cryogonal set people run, but sitting on smth with a freeze chance for a prolonged period of time doesn't sound great) Vaporeon shouldn't really be your Cryogonal answer but it can sit on it to an extent I guess. Maybe it would be better to run both Surf and Ice Beam. If you really wanted to hit Tatsugiri, I think Yawn might be better for that than Ice Beam as well.

yeah it "sits" on cryogonal, which usually nabs you a switch if youve got a freeze dry resist. overall it just functions like defensive vaporeon but with calm mind for random sweeps

 

[Feliburn]

I'd be interested in seeing more discussion about screens in this tier, actually. It's no real secret that light clay has been quite discussed since alpha by Council members, and remains a contentious issue in the tier due to a ton of screens options - Klefki being added is a bit yikes as well - and a quantity of setup mons that are already threatening but just get way more mileage on those builds, like Oricorio, Frosmoth, Drednaw, or the obvious screens barometer Cloyster.

What are you guys' opinions on this? RULT is also super relevant to bring up if the experience there mattered obviously!

I've been laddering a lot recently (topped the ladder, and now I'm on my second grind cause of RULT), and from my personal experience screens have not been such a pain in the butt as previous gens. I see the argument that you can't kill the breakers because of a specific tera type, but I've been abusing the same tera type to stop said breaker as they click a not very effective move vs my tank.

However, the current abusers are insanely strong; Drednaw just nukes everything, and you kind of have to guess between both specific tera types and items. Cetitan can also just destroy teams single-handedly. Toxtricity is in theory the scariest immediate threat out of all of them, as you either let it set up or let it kill the mon you have in vs it, but I find specs sets scarier than set up sets.

As it has always been in this tier, screens will always become an issue, and this is just talking about an early metagame. I can see screens teams get more creative with different set up sweepers thanks to terastilization. I'd personally like to remove Light Clay, given the impression it has left in the tier in such a small period of time, and then tackle the remaining breakers depending on if they are still as obnoxious as they were with extended screens. BUT THAT'S JUST ME.

 

[Pabloaram]

However, the current abusers are insanely strong; Drednaw just nukes everything, and you kind of have to guess between both specific tera types and items. Cetitan can also just destroy teams single-handedly. Toxtricity is in theory the scariest immediate threat out of all of them, as you either let it set up or let it kill the mon you have in vs it, but I find specs sets scarier than set up sets.

I feel the same about this mons but also think that they don't need 8 turns of screens to be dominant. The bulk from screens lets them set up and win games from this point to easily.
They are also the best tera abuser in the tier. Tera Dark Drednaw, Terra Rock/Ice Cloyster, Tera Normal Toxtricity are the strongest abuser (specs > setup tox)

Screens HO is always going to be problematic. The amount of setup sweeper tranks to Drednaw ganing Shell Smash and the Oricorios Quiver Dance and the lack of Unaware mons, being Crocalor the only viable unaware in both RU and NU make no sense to me in terms of balance.

But i still prefer banning the stronger abuser over light clay for now. I dont care what happen first but both are good choice

 

[Perla]

Set-up sweepers like Drednaw and Cloyster would be broken with or without screens (I honestly think that the turtle is more problematic than the mollusk). The point is that the defensive property of terastallization provides a new tool to set-up more easily (Shell Smash, QD, Shift Gear...).

Moreover there are so many Pokemon that can exploit all this stuff and I've clearly seen successful teams in which you just set up and set up and leave the opponent without counterplay.

Maybe right now this kind of HyperOffense is a "brain-dead playstyle" and anyone can have success with it, but banning just the Light Clay would simply bring to "better-crafted" teams with the purpose of dealing with all the checks that are supposed to take care of the threats of that team (for examples I've seen lots of people saying that Vacuum Wave lets you check Cloyster and Drednaw, but then it takes nothing to put the tera-ghost on one of them, so you bait and get rid of the Vacuum Wave user and, even if you lose the first set-up sweeper, now the second set-up sweeper can do whatever it wants).

So I think that the problem is inherently in the single sweepers and I believe that some kind of hierarchy should be made.

Right now Shell Smash users are the most problematic ones imho: they immediately get speed and power.

The other ones have some flaws (but this doesn't mean that they don't need to be investigated).

QD users become threatening after several QDs so you have to prevent this scenario. This can still be accomplished thanks to moves like Whirwind, Roar and Dragon Tail

Shift Gear users gain power and speed, but at least the atk boost is just +1 (for Toxtricity the advantage is just for its speed).

The flaw of Belly Drum users is that they are slow. Anyway they have priority so this aspect must not be overlooked


To conclude, as I said before, I think that right now the scariest pair of the tier is Drednaw/Cloyster : tera dark, Strong Jaw, Crunch is insane and the oyster is the usual oyster.
Drednaw is a really effective "Cloyster enabler", because it can really weaken the opponent team so Cloyster can clean up everything.
And a final point on tera-dark: Sableye cannot use Encore or Will-o-Wisp!

 

[Sneakyplanner]

This might not be the most professional opinion, but I say that banning light clay is a move with next to no negative impact. It doesn't kill screens offense as a concept, just makes it easier to play around. The fact that it requires such little commitment means that it can be banned and then the meta can be examined further. If Drednaw and Cloyster are still an issue after that then they can be banned as well. Also while this is a matter of opinion, I agree with what most others in this conversation have been saying that screens being a strong playstyle is a net negative on the tier. It's too easy to play, too linear to make exciting games and there just aren't enough ways to build around it.

The issue of light clay is also compounded by Klefki being added to the tier. Klefki simply removes a lot of the counterplay that previously existed to screens because it will always get at least one screen up before being taunted or killed and it has much better stats than Sableye, the old prankster screener. The closest thing to counterplay is Tauros, who can both hit Klefki super effectively and break screens with one move. But prankster makes it so Klefki still has an advantage in that matchup and Tauros is important enough for dealing with the threats on screens HO that it really doesn't want to take a thunder wave. It's simply too safe to set up screens with Klefki and the shell smash sweepers are just too strong.

 

[TDanger]

i feel like it would be easiest to just ban screens and then go about banning the big sweepers, but at the same time, klefki is the main screens enabler, and the big sweepers are big sweepers

so ultimately i don't know what we should do

 

[Lilo]

Lately been looking at a couple of mons that could be present on a BO Hail team...

: Building hail teams u definitely want a way to deal with np rotom-heat (and salazzle) since it has been on the rise and spdef klawf helps u "deal" with it. Access to knock and rocks with the rock stab of choice and one of the goat abilities in the game - regen - klawf seems like one of the best checks to heat even if burned.

Klawf (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rock Blast
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Klawf: 204-240 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Klawf: 188-222 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Klawf Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 150-186 (62.2 - 77.1%) -- approx. 2HKO
0 Atk Klawf Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 200-248 (82.9 - 102.9%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Klawf Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 66-78 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

/ : So with these two mons utility umbrella comes into play. This item would allow them to recover with no drawbacks from hail through Morning Sun and Synthesis respectively, allowing for a nice cm sweep after cetitan broke the opposing team.

Feel like BO Hail could be explored a bit more and would like to hear your guys thoughts on it.

 

[EviGaro]

Hlelo, RU Council voted on a slate consisting of Drednaw, Frosmoth, Primeape and Toxtricity this weekend. Due to changes in the requirements for quickbans, what would have been a simple majority needed vote is now 2/3, which means here 6/9 to ban instead of 5/9. Nothing in this outcome has been affected by the changes, however.

Also, following what we alluded to here, we decided to ask ourselves about action on Light Clay. We cannot actually vote it out without a foray in Policy Review though, so this vote was action or no action instead to. Here are the results and my well placed cursor:

Following a unanimous vote, Drednaw is now banned from SV RU! Tagging Kris and Marty for implementation on ladder, thank you! Toxtricity (4/9), Frosmoth (2/9), and Primeape (0/9) all stay in the tier.

On Light Clay: a post will be up soon in PR following the 8/9 vote here for action. But it's also largely clear that the other options here are dependent on the result of this first. Frosmoth and other QD options are bolsered immensely by screens and tera this gen, which makes their tiering... complicated. Primeape, and other fighting types like Hariyama, have so much sustain under screens and ability to be easily overwhelming that they certainly are concerning, but do they remain as such without light clay? Once that's settled, other slates in beta will be more straightforward.

 

[Fabi_ODST]

RIP mini bowser, your sweeps'll be missed ;-;

Regarding the issue of Light Clay, I do agree it's very difficult to play around, specially for other hyper offense teams. Bulky sweepers like hariyama and primeape are unstoppable once they setup, plus they have the option to pick which of their weaknesses they nullify with tera to make that situation a whole lot worse. However, I feel like they would be impacted the least with a Lighr Clay ban, given that they don't require as many turns of bulk to do their thing.

To me, the biggest losers of that option would be Cloyster and the QD sweepers, given how fragile they are.I'll talk about the ones I've used and how I feel a ban would affect them:

Missing roost on this fella f*cking sucks ;-; that, combined with the inaccuracy of sleep powder and how frail it is means Venomoth is the most screen dependent QD sweeper. Losing screen time also means you have to go for a defensive tera type instead of boosting your STAB, leaving you in this awkward spot where you either don't KO stuff or you don't survive long enough for the setup to be worth it. It can still snowball out of control 75% of the time, but screens definitely play a big part on how strong this fella feels.

This is the one I've used the most, mainly because I like hitting sleep powder XD While you don't hit resistances as hard, you can secure setup opportunities much more reliably, and the sheer power of 91% accurate hurricane means you're not starving for power either. Losing screen time wouldn't hit it AS hard as venomoth, but it would make priority a more reliable checking method, due to the lack of variety vivillon has in terms of tera options (though that may be my observation bias. I've only seen tera ground for tera blast coverage and tera steel to have better resistances)

This one is tricky, as it only requires one screen to be affective, but it'll MISS those extra turns of reflect to cover it's priority weakness. I still think it's the one that'll fare the best if screens are limited though, as people are figuring out that staying power is as valuable as setup opportunities, something that Ice Scales makes really easy against special attackers. I've seen many tera types from this moth, so I can't make a judgement in that area.


TLDR: QD mons would be the most affected if screens are limited, though that may be for the best regarding the tier's health