OU Salamence

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell

Where have you to run?

[OVERVIEW]

* Moxie, Dragon Dance, and a Z-crystal together have frightening synergy, allowing Salamence to outspeed and OHKO many common answers to it, starting an unstoppable snowball.
* While 100 base Speed is by no means like lightning, arguably the tier's two best Choice Scarf users in Landorus-T, and Genesect fall below that number, making a +1 Speed sweep a realistic prospect.
* Salamence's typing and defenses are not exceptional, but they offer enough to create opportunities to set up
* Outside of Supersonic Skystrike + Moxie, it's hopelessly outclassed by other similar attackers like Dragonite, Gyarados, Kyurem-B, and Mega Charizard X. This leaves it quite predictable.


[SET]
name: Z-crystal Moxie Sweeper
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Fly
move 3: Outrage
move 4: Earthquake
item: Flyinium Z
ability: Moxie
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP


[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Dragon Dance is what defines this set. Because of Moxie, Supersonic Skystrike, base 100 Speed and base 135 Attack, Salamence can sweep with just one boost.
* Fly in combination with Flyinium Z give Salamence a very strong attack with no drawbacks from a great offensive type, forming excellent synergy with its ability Moxie. It may also be used without the Z-crystal as a strong STAB attack should the enemy still be in possession of healthy Steel- and Fairy-types, making Outrage a bad idea.
* Outrage is the cleaner, rampaging through the remaining neutral targets on the enemy team. While it has no shortage of drawbacks, its 120 Base Power and perfect accuracy do make it suitable for this specific task.
* Earthquake gets past Steel-, Electric-, and Rock-types like Excadrill, Magearna, Heatran, Metagross, Jirachi, Magnezone, Tapu Koko, and Tyranitar with little to no fuss. It also has nice neutral coverage that can OHKO plenty of offensive Pokemon while at +1 or 2 and suffers from no drawbacks unlike Outrage and Fly.
* Fire Blast can be used in the last slot. While it is inferior to Earthquake in most respects against Steel-types it can still get past many that are sufficiently weakened and prevents Skarmory, which normally laughs in the face of Flying-, Dragon-, and Ground-type coverage, form making a fool of Salamence.

Set Details
========

* Maximum Speed EVs and a Jolly nature are necessary for outspeeding Choice Scarf Genesect and tying the occasional opposing base 100, like Jirachi and Manaphy.
* Maximum Attack investment is used because Salamence is a fully offensive Pokemon and needs to do as much damage as possible.
* Moxie and Z-crystal are the entire niche of the Pokemon and are necessary to start the snowball.
* Make sure to run a Naive nature and 4 Special Attack EVs with Fire Blast.

Usage Tips
========

* Because of the nature of Outrage and Z-crystals, there is no doubt that Salamence is a late-game cleaner. Any attempts to use it in the early-game should be strictly for creating a win condition elsewhere by luring in and KOing something with Supersonic Skystrike, or absorbing a weaker resisted attack.
* As is the nature of a late-game sweeper Salamence's counters needs to be taken care of. When you have switch advantage in the match, try and pressure your opponent into going to Salamence's counters. Bring in your Latios, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, or whatever Steel- and Fairy-type lure you're packing and let loose the appropriate attack to hit them; the payoff could be game winning.
* Late in the game, attempt to draw in Pokemon that Salamence can set up on. Think ahead a few turns, identify what Salamence can set up on, and force the opponent to go to that. Then simply attack it until whatever you have on the field faints, and bring in Salamence. Mega Charizard Y, Keldeo, Venusaur, Kartana, Manaphy, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Gyarados, Tapu Bulu, Buzzwole, Alakazam, Tangrowth, and Magnezone can all be potentially set up on, depending on what set they're running and how weakened they are. While Salamence may sustain a lot of damage in doing so, it should be at 100% HP and can frequently only need one turn of setup to sweep.

Team Options
========

* Magnezone's ability to trap and KO nearly every Steel-type that hampers Salamence makes it a formidable partner.
* Lures to these problematic walls are a less drastic resort to dealing with them. Life Orb Thunder Latios and Life Orb Fire Blast Garchomp are generally quite skilled at bringing in Skarmory and Celesteela and annihilating them. They both also have strong neutral attacks for getting past Fairy-types as well.
* Salamence's late-game nature means that it benefits heavily from early hazard stacking, Defiant users, and a lot of pivoting. Spikes Greninja, Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, Rotom-W, Garchomp, Bisharp, and Genesect are good places to start when building a team around this.
* Mixed Kyurem-B is a powerful wallbreaker that can draw in and break Steel- and Fairy-type Pokemon.
* Hoopa-U is also excellent at turning early-game momentum into holes in the opponent's defenses for Salamence to exploit.
* Landorus-T is another big problem for Salamence. It needs to be whittled down to about 60% before Salamence can KO it with +0 Supersonic Skystrike. Powerful neutral physical attackers that can draw in Landorus-T and wear it down include Choice Band Tyranitar, Life Orb Excadrill, and Swords Dance Garchomp.
* Substitute + Focus Punch Buzzwole is quite effective at drawing in physically defensive Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Skarmory, Rotom-W, Quagsire, and Toxapex to either outright beat them or seriously wear them down. With Poison Jab, it can wear down Clefable to the point where Supersonic Skystrike will OHKO.
* Salamence's weakness to Stealth Rock is quite the problem, as that 25% can be the difference a successful and unsuccessful sweep. Fortunately it's fairly easy to mitigate, as Salamence only has to come in once per game. Excadrill, Latios, and Starmie are the best at performing this task, as in a late-game scenario they can simply remove entry hazards, do some damage, and then faint, clearing a path for Salamence to come in safely, primed to sweep.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* While Salamence's movepool and stats are formidable, any minor deviation in role renders it outclassed in the OU tier. Dragonite, Gyarados, Zygarde, and Mega Charizard X all pull off defensive Dragon Dance better. Similar things can be said about mixed all-out-attacker, Choice Scarf, Choice Band, and utility sets.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Select Priority and Exceptionally Fast Choice Scarf users**: While Salamence may have the Speed, typing, and bulk to deal with certain threats to its sweep such as Choice Scarf Genesect and Greninja's Water Shuriken, it will fall to the likes of Choice Scarf Latios, Pheromosa, and Nihilego and any Ice Shard user.

**Unaware Users**: Though Supersonic Skytrike does a large amount to both Clefable and Quagsire, it's simply not enough to consistently get past these two, considering that they can safely recover on the turn that Salamence may consume its Z-crystal. While it is true that Supersonic Skystrike followed by Outrage will eliminate Quagsire, it will leave Salamence easily revenge killed. Without good team support to eliminate Unaware users, Salamence will not sweep.

**Steel- and Fairy-types**: These prevent Salamence from simply firing and forgetting with Outrage. While they can be dealt with coverage moves in a fairly effective manner, there are exceptions and shortcomings involved when facing Pokemon such as Skarmory, Celesteela, or Heatran depending on what coverage move you select.

**Very Strong Physical Walls**: Hippowdon, defensive Landorus-T, and Slowbro can switch into Salamence and stop its sweep through status, phazing, or super effective attacks.

**Protect Users**: While the move itself is fairly uncommon, it's extremely annoying to Salamence, being able to throw a wrench into its plans of KOing with Supersonic Skystrike or thrashing through a team with Outrage. Alomomola and Ferrothorn are known to carry this move.
 
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AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Hey Ash Borer you did a fine job with this one. Several nitpicks though:
  • Perhaps put the remaining 4 EVs in Defense for the main Jolly spread as it gives Genesect a +1 boost to SpA instead of Attack, which is useful since CB Extremespeed is already dealing some considerable damage and you don't want to put Mence in any KO range (44.7 - 52.8% vs 67 - 79.1%, which is a KO at +1 after SR). Of course this is zilch if it's running Naive.
  • Mentions of Defog and Rapid Spin support since Mence hates switching into SR and all. You mentioned Latios so you have a good start there, while Excadrill generally pounds stuff into the ground and checks Koko.
  • Protect users in Checks and Counters is mentionable imo since they prevent Fly from being a consistent alternative to Outrage, stalls Outrage turns by itself, and weakens Supersonic Skystrike if you decide to expend the Z-move on that target.
 
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Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Hey Ash Borer you did a fine job with this one. Several nitpicks though:
  • Perhaps put the remaining 4 EVs in Defense for the main Jolly spread as it gives Genesect a +1 boost to SpA instead of Attack, which is useful since CB Extremespeed is already dealing some considerable damage and you don't want to put Mence in any KO range (44.7 - 52.8% vs 67 - 79.1%, which is a KO at +1 after SR). Of course this is zilch if it's running Naive.
  • Mentions of Defog and Rapid Spin support since Mence hates switching into SR and all. You mentioned Latios so you have a good start there, while Excadrill generally pounds stuff into the ground and checks Koko.
  • Protect users in Checks and Counters is mentionable imo since they prevent Fly from being a consistent alternative to Outrage, stalls Outrage turns by itself, and weakens Supersonic Skystrike if you decide to expend the Z-move on that target.
I believe download gives SpA a boost if the defenses are even 100% of the time. Thank you for the comments ^_^
 
Fire Blast isn't worth a slash. The damage versus Skarmory is nice and all, but it's not worth being walled by the likes of Heatran and friends for, especially since Salamence should be paired with Magnezone anyways. Losing out on a strong physical move against neutral targets also blows because Salamence has to lock itself into Outrage in many more scenarios.

3/3
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Yeah Fire Blast is okay at best. This isnt ready for gp just yet. On my phone,will edit when I get home.

edit: ok GP ready, do your worst.
 
Last edited:

Lumari

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remove
add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/1
[OVERVIEW]

* Moxie, Dragon Dance, (AC) and (RC) a Z-crystal together have frightening synergy, allowing Salamence to outspeed and OHKO many common answers to it, starting an unstoppable snowball.
* While base 100 Speed is by no means like lightning, what are arguably the tier's two best Choice Scarf users (RC) in Landorus-T, and Genesect fall below that number, (AC) making a +1 Speed sweep a realistic prospect.
* Its Salamence's typing and defenses are not exceptional, but they offer enough to create opportunities to set up
* Outside of Z Fly Supersonic Skystrike + Moxie, (AC) it's hopelessly outclassed by other similar attackers like Dragonite, Gyarados, Kyurem-B, (AC) and Mega Charizard X. This leaves it quite predictable.


[SET]
name: Z-crystal (AH) Moxie Sweeper
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Fly
move 3: Outrage
move 4: Earthquake
item: Flyinium Z
ability: Moxie
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP


[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Dragon Dance is what defines this set. Because of Moxie, Supersonic Skystrike, base 100 base Speed, (AC) and base 135 base Attack, (AC) Salamence can sweep with just one boost.
* Fly in combination with Flyinium Z give Salamence a very strong attack with no drawbacks from a great offensive type, forming excellent synergy with its ability Moxie. It may also be used without the Z-crystal as a strong STAB attack should the enemy still be in possession of healthy Steel- and Fairy-types, making Outrage a bad idea.
* Outrage is the cleaner, rampaging through the remaining neutral targets on the enemy team. While it has no shortage of drawbacks, its 120 Base Power and perfect accuracy do make it suitable for this specific task.
* Earthquake gets past Steel-, Electric-, (AC) and Rock-types like Excadrill, Magearna, Heatran, Magnezone, Metagross, Tyranitar Jirachi, Magnezone, Tapu Koko, (AC) and Jirachi Tyranitar (sort by typing) with little to no fuss. It also has nice neutral coverage that can OHKO plenty of offensive Pokemon while at +1 or 2 (RC) and suffers from no drawbacks unlike Outrage and Fly.
* Fire Blast's can be used in the last slot. While it is inferior to Earthquake in most respects against Steel-types, (AC) it can still get past many that are sufficiently weakened (RC) and prevents Skarmory, who which normally laughs in the face of Flying-, Dragon-, (AC) and Ground-type coverage, form from making a fool of you Salamence.

Set Details
========

* Maximum Speed EVs and a Jolly nature are necessary for outspeeding Choice Scarf Genesect and tying the occasional opposing base 100, like Jirachi and Manaphy.
* Maximum Attack investment is used as because Salamence is a fully offensive Pokemon and needs to do as much damage as possible.
* Moxie and Z-crystal are the entire niche of the the Pokemon and are necessary to start (RC) or even have a chance to snowball at all.
* Make sure to run a Naive nature and 4 SpA Special Attack EVs with Fire Blast.

Usage Tips
========

* Because of the nature of Outrage and Z-crystals, (AC) there is no doubt that Salamence is a late-game (AH) cleaner. Any attempts to use it in the early-game (AH) should be strictly for creating a win condition elsewhere by luring in and KOing something with Z-fly, Supersonic Skystrike or absorbing a weaker resisted attack.
* As is the nature of a late-game sweeper, (AC) its Salamence's counters needs to be taken care of. When you have switch advantage in the match, try and pressure your opponent into going to Salamence's counters. Bring in your Latios, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, (AC) or whatever Steel- and Fairy-type lure you're packing and let loose the appropriate attack to hit them; (SC) the payoff could be game(space)winning.
* Late in the game, attempt to draw in Pokemon that Salamence can set up on. Think ahead a few turns, identify what Salamence can set up on, and force the opponent to go to that. Then simply attack it until whatever you have on the field faints, and bring in Salamence. Mega Charizard Y, Keldeo, Venusaur, Kartana, Manaphy, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Gyarados, Tapu Bulu, Buzzwole, Alakazam, Tangrowth, and Magnezone can all be potentially set up on, depending on what set they're running and how weakened they are. While Salamence may sustain a lot of damage in doing so, it should be at 100% HP before it sets up (?) (RC) and can frequently only need 1 one turn of set up setup to sweep.

Team Options
========

* Magnezone's ability to trap and KO nearly every Steel-type that hampers Salamence makes it a formidable partner.
* Lures to these problematic walls are a less drastic resort to dealing with them. Life Orb Thunder Latios (RC) and Life Orb Fire Blast Garchomp are generally quite skilled at bringing in Skarmory and Celesteela and annihilating them. They both also have strong neutral attacks for getting past Fairy-types as well.
* Salamence's lategame late-game nature means that it benefits heavily from early hazard stacking, anti-hazard- hazard removal, (AC) and a lot of pivoting. Spikes Greninja, Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, Rotom-W, Garchomp, Bisharp, and Genesect are good places to start when building a team around this.
* Mixed Kyurem-B is a powerful wallbreaker who that can draw in and break Steel- and Fairy-type Pokemon.
* Hoopa-U is also excellent at turning early-game (AH) momentum into holes in the opponent's defenses for Salamence to exploit.
* Landorus-T is another big problem for Salamence. It needs to be whittled down to about 60% before Salamence can KO it with +0 Supersonic Skystrike. Powerful neutral physical attackers that can draw in Landorus-T and wear it down include Choice Band Tyranitar, Life Orb Excadrill, and Swords Dance Garchomp.
* Substitute + Focus Punch Buzzwole is quite effective at drawing in physically defensive Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Skarmory, Rotom-W, Quagsire, and Toxapex, only to either outright beat them (RC) or seriously wear them down. With Poison Jab, (AC) it can wear down Clefable to the point where Supersonic Skystrike will OHKO.
* Salamence's weakness to Stealth Rock is quite the problem, as that 25% can be the difference a successful and unsuccessful sweep. Fortunately it's fairly easy to mitigate, (AC) as Salamence only has to come in once per game. Excadrill, Latios, and Starmie are the best at performing this task, as in a late-game scenario they can simply remove entry hazards, do some damage, and then faint, clearing a path for Salamence to come in safely, primed to sweep.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* While Salamence's movepool and stats are formidable, (AC) it's simply irrelevant at any other minor deviation in role leaves it simply irrelevant in the OU tier. Dragonite, Gyarados, Zygarde, and Mega Charizard X all pull off defensive Dragon Dance better. Similar things can be said about mixed all-out-attacker, Choice Scarf, Choice Band, and utility sets.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Select Priority and Exceptionally Fast Choice Scarf users**: While Salamence may have the Speed, typing, (AC) and bulk to deal with certain threats to its sweep such as Choice Scarf Genesect and Greninja's Water Shuriken, it will fall to the likes of Choice Scarf Latios, Pheromosa, and Nihilego (assumed Phero and Nihi were running Scarf too)and any Ice Shard user.

**Unaware Users**: Though Supersonic Skytrike does a large amount to both Clefable and Quagsire, it's simply not enough to consistently get past these two, considering that they can safely recover on the turn that Salamence may consume its Z-crystal. While it is true that Supersonic Skystrike followed by Outrage will eliminate Quagsire, it will leave Salemence Salamence easily revenge killed. Without good team support to eliminate Unaware users, Salamence will not sweep.

**Steel- and Fairy-types**: These prevent Salamence from simply firing and forgetting with Outrage. While they can be dealt with coverage moves in a fairly effective manner, there are exceptions and shortcomings involved when facing Pokemon such as Skarmory, Celesteela, or Heatran depending on what coverage move you select.

**Very Strong Physical Walls**: Hippowdon, defensive Landorus-T, and Slowbro can switch into Salamence and stop its sweep through status, phazing, (AC) or super effective attacks.

**Protect Users**: (RH) While the move itself is fairly uncommon, it's Protect is extremely annoying to Salamence, being able to throw a wrench into its plans of KOing with Supersonic Skystrike (RC) or thrashing through a team with Outrage. Alomomola (RC) and Ferrothorn are known to carry this move.
 
Last edited:

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