Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research


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Please limit discussion to battle mechanics only!

New Mechanics in Scarlet and Violet

  • Terastallizing into one of the user's original types makes that STAB 2x (Nails)
  • Soak fails against a Terastallized Pokemon (Theorymon)
  • Transform does not copy the target's Tera Type, and if the user is Terastallized it keeps its own Tera Type (DarkFE)
  • Reflect Type fails if the user is Terastallized (Kalalokki)
  • Illusion copies a Terastallized party member's appearance as if it was not Terastallized (DarkFE)
  • Revelation Dance matches the user's Tera Type while Terastallized (DarkFE)
  • Roost does not remove the user's Flying type while Terastallized (DarkFE)
  • Double Shock does not remove the user's Electric type while Terastallized (LucianoBegot), and changes STAB modifier depending on when it is used (Fragmented)
  • Adaptability gives 2.25x STAB with moves that match the user's Tera Type and one of its original types (Fragmented)
  • Being Terastallized causes most moves normally under 60 power to have 60 power if they match the Tera Type (Eve, Lily) (Eve, Nails) (Anubis), even when the modified power is below 60 (DaWoblefet, Karthik)
  • STAB takes into consideration what the Pokemon's types were prior to Terastallizing if they were changed - switching out and back in while Terastallized resets the Pokemon's original types (DaWoblefet, Karthik)

  • Order Up's stat boost depends on the Tatsugiri form; Attack with Curly Form, Defense with Droopy Form, Speed with Stretchy Form, and still provides a stat boost even if the attack doesn't connect (Theorymon); Order Up is boosted by Sheer Force without removing the stat boost (DaWoblefet, Karthik)
  • Last Respects gains 50 power for each party member that fainted during the battle (Kalalokki), does not lose power for reviving fainted party members (Fragmented), caps at 5050 power with 100 fainted allies (Anubis)
  • Mortal Spin removes hazards as well (Kalalokki)
  • Rage Fist gains 50 power for each time the user has been hit during the battle, and does not reset when switched out or fainted (Kalalokki)
  • Salt Cure deals 1/8 max HP at the end of each turn, or 1/4 max HP to Steel and Water types (Kalalokki), based on the affected Pokemon's current type (Z-nogyroP), and this effect is prevented by Covert Cloak (UltiMario)
  • Tera Blast can only change category after Terastallizing (Kalalokki)
  • Population Bomb checks accuracy for each hit (DarkFE)
  • Shed Tail and Fillet Away fail if the user does not have enough HP (Kalalokki)
  • Chilly Reception functions even if the user has nothing to switch to (DaWoblefet)
  • Shed Tail's substitute has 1/4 of the user's max HP (Fragmented)
  • Rage Fist does not count damage to the user's substitute, caps at 350 power after being hit 6 times (Fragmented)
  • Salt Cure's end-of-turn damage is based on the affected Pokemon's current type (Z-nogyroP)
  • Gigaton Hammer can be executed, but not selected twice in a row (Fragmented)
  • Tera Blast is affected by Pixilate prior to Terastallizing (Worldie), but not after (Theia)
  • Ceaseless Edge setting Spikes cannot be stopped by Covert Cloak/Shield Dust/substitutes (Kalalokki)
  • Jet Punch is boosted by Sheer Force (DaWoblefet)
  • Collision Course deals 1.3333x more damage when super effective (Anubis)
  • Glaive Rush's effect lasts until the user's next action (DaWoblefet)

  • Commander activates as soon as Tatsugiri and Dondozo are on the field at the same time, and makes Tatsugiri unable to use any actions until Dondozo faints + other Commander mechanics (Theorymon)
  • Well-Baked Body activates on Will-O-Wisp (Kalalokki)
  • Earth Eater heals 1/4 max HP, activates on Sand Attack (Kalalokki)
  • Protosynthesis/Quark Drive boosts Speed by 1.5x (Theorymon)
  • Good as Gold does not block Haze, is ignored by Mold Breaker (Kalalokki)
  • Toxic Debris activates against physical attacks, including from an ally to send Toxic Spikes to the opposing side (Kalalokki), and cannot be bounced back by Magic Bounce (TheMantyke)
  • Protosynthesis does not activate during Sunny Day with Cloud Nine active (Worldie)
  • Tablets of Ruin makes surrounding Attack stats 0.75x (Kalalokki)
  • Sword of Ruin makes surrounding Defense stats 0.75x (Kalalokki)
  • Mycelium Might makes the Pokemon move last in its priority bracket (Kalalokki), losing the Ability mid-turn does not change turn order (DarkFE), and Quick Claw cannot activate when using Status moves (DaWoblefet)
  • Purifying Salt does not cure pre-existing status conditions (Kalalokki); its Ghost damage reduction is a stat modifier (DaWoblefet)
  • Guard Dog raises Attack 1 stage when Intimidate activates against it, instead of lowering it (Kalalokki)
  • Seed Sower and Toxic Debris activate even if the Pokemon is knocked out by the attack (Kalalokki)
  • Protosynthesis/Quark Drive boosts Atk/Def/SpAtk/SpDef by 1.3x (Theorymon, Japanese Twitter)
  • Protosynthesis/Quark Drive considers stat stages to determine which stat gets boosted (Whitephoenixace)
  • Commander cannot be removed by Skill Swap or copied by Role Play (DarkFE)
  • Protosynthesis/Quark Drive are unaffected by Gastro Acid (Whitephoenixace)
  • Zero to Hero cannot be copied by Doodle (Shurtugal)
  • Protosynthesis/Quark Drive doesn't consider other changes to stats (Theorymon)
  • Protosynthesis/Quark Drive and the "of Ruin" Abilities are not ignored by Mold Breaker (DaWoblefet)
  • Protosynthesis/Quark Drive are unaffected by Worry Seed (FalcoLau)
  • Cud Chew activates with Berries that have been flung and eaten (Fragmented), and only activates for the most recent Berry eaten (Fragmented)
  • Commander does not activate again with the same Dondozo as long as it hasn't fainted (DarkFE)
  • Wind Rider does not activate via Sandstorm, despite being a wind move (Fragmented)
  • Anger Shell does not activate if the move had an effect removed by Sheer Force (Fragmented)
  • Costar also copies the Focus Energy effect (DaWoblefet)
  • Supreme Overlord boosts power for the number of fainted allies, caps at 5 (Anubis), number of fainted allies is determined when the Ability becomes active (Marty)
  • Orichalcum Pulse's Attack modifier is 1.3333x (Anubis)
  • Thermal Exchange cures burn immediately after being ignored by Mold Breaker (Fragmented)
  • Electromorphosis and Wind Power start the Charge effect (DaWoblefet, Karthik)
  • "of Ruin" Abilities do not affect Pokemon with the same Ability (Maelmc)

  • Booster Energy is consumed to activate Protosynthesis/Quark Drive for as long as the Pokemon stays active (Theorymon)
  • Booster Energy is not consumed if Protosynthesis/Quark Drive are currently activated by Sunny Day/Electric Terrain (Theorymon)
  • Punching Glove only protects from contact with punch moves (Kalalokki)
  • Loaded Dice for Population Bomb rolls a guaranteed 4-10 hits (Anubis)
  • Loaded Dice for 2-5 multi-hit moves rolls a guaranteed 4-5 hits (Anubis)
  • Ability Shield blocks Gastro Acid (DarkFE), but does not enable the holder's Ability again if obtained after the Gastro Acid effect (DarkFE)
  • Mirror Herb activates even if Opportunist activated (Fragmented)
  • Punching Glove removes the contact flag from punch moves (DarkFE)
  • Punching Glove boosts the power of punch moves by 1.1x, stacks with Iron Fist (jfrizzle)
  • Ability Shield blocks Neutralizing Gas for the holder (DarkFE), is still functional with Klutz (DarkFE), blocks Trace from activating for the holder (pyuk)
  • Booster Energy cannot be removed from Paradox Pokemon (DaWoblefet)
  • Adamant Crystal, Lustrous Globe, and Griseous Core change Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina to their respective Origin Forme (DaWoblefet), and have the same 1.2x type power boosts as the respective Orb items (Karthik)

  • Having Sword of Ruin and Beads of Ruin active do not prevent each other from working, but two of the same Ability do not stack (Kalalokki)
  • Each Pokemon keeps track of how many times it has been hit for Rage Fist, and this value is copied by Transform (DaWoblefet)
  • Imposter can activate against a Tatsugiri in Dondozo's mouth, but Transform, as well as Toxic from a Poison type will miss (DaWoblefet)
  • A copied Intrepid Sword also only activates once per battle (Theia)
  • The first hit of Dragon Darts knocking out a Dondozo with a Tatsugiri in its mouth does not have the second one hit Tatsugiri (DaWoblefet)
  • If Palafin faints in Hero Form and is revived, it comes back in Hero Form (DaWoblefet, Karthik)
  • Haze removes stat stages from Tatsugiri in Dondozo's mouth as well (DaWoblefet, Karthik)
  • Orichalcum Pulse/Hadron Engine quirks (Karthik)

Changes to Old Mechanics
  • Water Shuriken no longer has the "20 power, hits 3 times" property after Battle Bond activates (Kalalokki)
  • Charge's effect lasts until an Electric-type move is used, including Status moves (DaWoblefet)
  • Curse changed targeting behaviour again (DaWoblefet)
  • Recover - 5 PP, down from 10
  • Soft-Boiled - 5 PP, down from 10
  • Rest - 5 PP, down from 10
  • Milk Drink - 5 PP, down from 10
  • Slack Off - 5 PP, down from 10
  • Roost - 5 PP, down from 10
  • Ally Switch - can now fail if used in succession
  • Shore Up - 5 PP, down from 10
  • Grassy Glide - 60 power, down from 70
  • Wicked Blow - 75 power, down from 80
  • Glacial Lance - 120 power, down from 130
  • Snow Cloak - snow
  • Ice Body - snow
  • Snow Warning - snow
  • Protean - activates once per switch-in
  • Slush Rush - snow
  • Intrepid Sword - activates once per battle
  • Dauntless Shield - activates once per battle
  • Libero - activates once per switch-in
  • Ice Face - snow

Move table dump (Kaphotics, Anubis)

Flag descriptions for the above table:

Flag_Metronome - true if Metronome can call the move
Flag_FailEncore - true if Encore fails on the move
Flag_FailMeFirst - true if Me First fails on the move
Flag_FutureAttack - true if the move hits two turns later
Flag_Pressure - true if the move loses extra PP from an opposing Pressure Pokemon regardless of actually targeting it
Flag_Combo - true if the move can be combined with another (Pledge moves)
Flag_NoSleepTalk - true if Sleep Talk cannot call the move
Flag_NoAssist - true if Assist cannot call the move
Flag_FailCopycat - true if Copycat fails on the move
Flag_FailMimic - true if Mimic fails on the move
Flag_FailInstruct - true if Instruct fails on the move
Flag_Powder - true if the move has no effect on Pokemon that are Grass type, have the Overcoat Ability, or are holding Safety Goggles
Flag_Bite - true if the move is boosted by Strong Jaw
Flag_Bullet - true if the move has no effect on Pokemon with the Bulletproof Ability
Flag_NoMultiHit - true if Parental Bond cannot make the move hit twice
Flag_NoEffectiveness - true if the move will not display as super effective or not very effective
Flag_SheerForce - true if the move is boosted by Sheer Force regardless of having a traditional secondary effect
Flag_Slicing - true if the move is boosted by Sharpness
Flag_Wind - true if the move interacts with the Wind Power and Wind Rider Abilities
Flag_CantUseTwice - true if the move cannot be selected for use twice in a row
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Always more to find
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Shed Tail - What percentage of HP is put into the substitute?

Anger Shell - Is this yet another Sheer Force-negated effect?

Cud Chew - Does this effect also work with Berries eaten through Bug Bite/Pluck/Fling? What happens if the Pokemon eats a different Berry between the first one and the end of the next turn?

Electromorphosis - Does the effect end at the end of the next turn like Charge? Is the effect literally Charge?

Loaded Dice - Can 2 or 3 hits ever happen? Until proven otherwise (i.e. thousands of tests), this effect will be implemented on the sim as the higher number of two separate multi-hit rolls.

Mirror Herb - Does it activate against other Mirror Herbs?
Fling: Are TMs still flingable for their base power like TRs and if so, what is the new strongest TM?

Terastal: Can you still use moves/abilities that would change your type the same way after terastallizing?
Does Transform copy terastallization status or type like mega evolution, or can Ditto still terastallize normally? Will terastallization be preserved if done before using Transform?

Mirror Herb: Does Mirror Herb only copy the specific stat increase it triggered on or will it mirror every stat change the opponent has at the time like Psych Up?
How do type-changing Moves (Trick or Treat, Forest Curse, Soak, Magic Powder, Burn Up) & abilities (Color Change, Protean, Libero, etc) interact with Terastalising?
Both from being applied before and attempting to be applied after
ie: does having Trick or Treat done to a Pokemon prior to Terastalising cause it to "keep" the Ghost stab it gains vs does Trick or Treat work at all on something that already tera'd.
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Does Terastalising into a Fire type clear the Burn status, or somehow negate the stat drop from it? Now that we know a type-changing mon preserves some of the properties from its original type, does a Terastalised mon retain the status immunities from its original type?
Similarly, how does the Poison status condition interact with Tera-Poison or Tera-Steel?
Same with Paralysis and Tera-Electric.
How will Adaptability work with Terastallization, both when you use a different Tera type from the user, and the same Tera type as one of the original user’s types? Surprised this hasn’t been asked yet.
I don't know if this is beyond the purview of this thread because timer-related stuff is not as relevant for Showdown as it can be for console, but it would be neat to have answers for any possible changes to TOD (time-over-death) mechanics.

This would entail things like:
  • Timing entry animations for shiny vs. non-shiny
  • Possible timer discrepancies with SWSH-introduced ribbon-text toasts, if still present
  • Changes to existing animations (Moonlight being something like a third of a second slower to resolve than Morning Sun on Dusk-Mane is a relevant example from SWSH).

If this sounds silly, with 45 second player turns, the ingame 20 minute timer in SWSH (they bumped it up from the mere 15 minutes it was at release!) is a realistic win-condition you can play for under console conditions even outside of dedicated defensive team styles. This will remain true even if recovery moves get their max PP reduced as seemed to be the case with Rest in one of the ads for Scarlet/Violet.
Here‘s a couple of things I’ve been pondering:

1) How will Protean & Libero work with Terastalization? Will they just shift the non-Tera-type and apply STAB accordingly, or will they just stop working once you Terastalize? For example, if Cinderace goes Tera-Fighting, then uses High Jump Kick, will Libero make Cinderace Fighting-type and give HJK super-STAB, or will Cinderace remain a Fire-type and only get regular STAB? I would expect the latter, since Terastalized Pokémon retain their usual STABs, but I’m not 100% sure.

2) Since super-STAB is just Adaptability’s boost, will Adaptability stack with super-STAB, or will it be better to go for an off-type Tera-type to have an extra Adaptability-boosted move? Thinking about this mostly because Eevee’s in SV and could have a 160-base-power Quick Attack, which could be nice, but doesn’t seem to have much else going for it if Adaptability and super-STAB don’t stack outside of Tera Blasting.
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Research Leader
Guys, the games aren't out, there's no point in trying to answer any questions yet. It's also a new generation, so kindly leave your general knowledge of how things worked in Gen 8 at the door; I don't have any of these answers and neither do you. If you want to research the things you think you know in Scarlet/Violet when you play it yourself and then reply to the questions, then please, by all means.

I've gone ahead and deleted posts or sections of posts that aren't questions or even mechanics-related. Thank you for your cooperation.

Tea Guzzler

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BH brain kicking in
Terastal - If transforming into a Terastallized target, do you copy their Terastallization (and if so, their Tera type)? If not, are you prevented from Terastallizing whilst transformed? If Terastallized before transforming, do you keep the effects after transformation?
Some more specifics about the Mirror Herb:

It sounds like it activates for positive stat changes only (like it wouldn't be consumed to copy just a self-drop from Overheat),
but what about moves like Curse and Shell Smash that both raise and lower stats at the same time? Does it behave like Spectral Thief and copy only the positive part of the boost, or does it copy the whole boost as long as any part of it is positive?
like: an opponent uses Shell Smash - does the Mirror Herb holder get +2/0/+2/0/+2, or does it get +2/-1/+2/-1/+2?

If a Pokémon with Contrary is holding a Mirror Herb,
does it always lower its stats when an opponent boosts (like Contrary Spectral Thief: an opponent uses SD, so the Mirror Herb holder tries to copy the +2 but instead gets -2 from Contrary),
does it bypass Contrary like boosts from Z-Power,
or does it do something else entirely? the fun but unlikely option: Mirror Herb but you get +2 SpA because someone else used Overheat
The first option definitely feels the most realistic, but I'm curious all the same.

What happens to a Mirror Herb holder if multiple Pokémon are boosted at the same time?
Possible examples:
- a move like Howl that directly targets an entire side, or a move like Icy Wind on two opposing Contrary users;
- a move like Magnetic Flux/Gear Up or Rototiller/Flower Shield that targets multiple Pokémon individually (this would probably be the same as Howl?);
- an single Ability activation, like Intimidate or Cotton Down, boosting two opposing Contrary users simultaneously​
Do all of these behave the same?
Does it copy only one boost or all of the boosts from the same event?
If it copies only one, does it activate immediately after the first boost or does it still wait until all targets have been boosted?
If it waits for all targets to be done, what happens if one target has a different boost from the others (such as from Simple) - does it copy the first boost, the last boost or the greatest boost?

If the flag from Legends still exists, is a sleeping Pokémon woken up before it attempts to use Spark, Wild Charge or Volt Tackle? (or any additional moves with the same flag)
I ask because frostbite kept this element of freeze even though it was otherwise a completely different status, so I could see sleep bringing back this element of drowsiness in turn.
Also, what if it's damaged by another Pokémon's move on this list? What if it's damaged by another Pokémon's Electric-type move not on this list?

Another Legends-motivated edit:
If Dialga and Palkia turn out to be usable, do the power and accuracy of Roar of Time and Spacial Rend and the crit rate of Spacial Rend still change based on the user's form?
If Giratina turns out to be usable, do the power and accuracy of Shadow Force still change based on the user's form? This might be silly of me, but I wouldn't necessarily take for granted that Shadow Force will be changed even if Roar of Time and Spacial Rend are.

If their effects are now form-dependent, have Roar of Time, Spacial Rend and Shadow Force been made unusable for other species (compare Aura Wheel I think), or do other species default to Altered Forme?

These are all super minor, so no pressure!! I'm mostly just curious :'D but thank you so much either way!!
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If Mon A uses Snatch, and Mon B is holding a Mirror Herb and uses Howl, does Mirror Herb copy Mon A's +1 Atk?

It obviously should, but that doesn't mean it will actually work.
What moves introduced in Scarlet and Violet, if any, are checked for interaction flags for moves not within the games themselves. The main application of knowing this is National Dex and similar formats on Showdown.
The Legends arceus research thread just found that the new signature moves for the cloud legendaries don't miss in rainstorms despite this not being stated in game, so it seems like it'll be worth looking into here as well in Rain (especially if the moves have their effects changed). Likewise, do they have their accuracy nerfed in Sun
How will terastal affect Future Sight and Doom Desire if the user isn't on the field when the move's damage is dealt? This includes all possible cases: The case where the user was Psychic/Steel and chose a Psychic/Steel terastal, the case where their old type was Psychic/Steel and they chose a different type to terastal into and the case where the old type was not Psychic or Steel and they chose to terastal into Psychic/Steel


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If you feel the need to say "probably" in your answer to a question, you should not be posting. Clearly having this thread open early was a mistake; if you have an actual question to ask please PM it to me, I'll post it and change-author to you.


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Testing Mechanics on Commander

Commander is Tatsugiri's ability where it goes into Dondozo's mouth. Note I was only able to test this in an ingame battle, so I am missing some mechanics most likely.

General Mechanics

-When Tatsugiri is eaten by Dondozo, Dondozo gets a +2 boost in ALL of its stats!

When Tatsugiri is in Dondozo's mouth, it becomes impossible to hit (have not tested No Guard), it becomes a 1v2 battle. Basically, Dondozo can only move once per turn, and is the ONLY thing on your side that can move. Tatsugiri does nothing at ALL besides become an impossible to hit target. It can not use ANY moves.

-Dondozo can not switch out when it has Tatsugiri in its mouth. Think No Retreat.

- Spread moves still mention missing Tatsugiri when used against Dondozo. I am unsure if this impacts the damage calculation or not.

- If Dondozo switches in, it swallows Tatsugiri before any moves are thrown. As a result, Tatsugiri will have its move "cancelled". Anything targeting Tatsugiri will miss as well.

- Tatsugiri will go into Dodozno's mouth even if it Tatsugiri is Terrastalyzed.

- When Dondozo faints, Tatsugiri is spat out, and functions like a normal Pokemon once more (there is no animation for this). I am unsure if Tatsugiri can be hit by an attack right after Dondozo faints or not, the ingame battle was too weak unfortunately.

-Dondozo can still Terrastalyze with Tatsugiri in its mouth.

-If Tatsugiri is inflicted with Curse (the ghost one), it WILL still take that damage in Dondozo's mouth, and can still faint because of it. Dondozo keeps the boosts it got from eating Tatsugiri. Note that my Tatsugiri was hit by Curse when Dondozo was not on the field, so I'm unsure if Curse can hit it when its eaten.

-If Tatusugiri faints inside Dondozo's mouth, Dondozo will still be unable to switch out. However, a partner can now be switched in with Dondozo to make things function like a more normal double battle. Dondozo will still keep the boosts it got from eating Tatsugiri as well.

- Dondozo can only eat one Tatsugiri per match. No double dipping!

-Dondozo can actually target Tatsugiri. The attacks seem to always miss though. Order Up will still provide its given boost regardless of missing Tatsugiri.

EDIT: did a double battle with a Mimikyu in it. I can confirm that Order Up still does its stat boost when used against a Fairy-type! The Fairy is still unaffected as normal.

EDIT 2: more things tested!

- When Dondozo switches in, Tatsugiri even gets its attempts to Tera canceled! Commander takes priority over ANYTHING Tatsugiri would normally do if Dondozo switches in. Thankfully, you can still tera another mon if Tatsugiri's tera is canceled by Commander.

- Toxic Orb DOES activate on Tatsugiri when Dondozo eats it.

- Shed Shell actually FAILS when Commander is in effect.

Order Up

Order Up is an 80 BP physical Dragon-type attack that boosts one of Dondozo's stats depending on the Tatsugiri's forme. Here are the combinations!

Yellow Tatsugiri makes Order Up Boost Speed.

Orange Tatsugiri makes Order Up Boost Attack

Red Tatsugiri
makes Order Up Boost Defense

Things to test that I couldn't

Since I was doing an ingame battle, I couldn't set things up perfectly to test everything I wanted. Here are more things to test on a later date!

- Can Tatsugiri be attacked on the same turn that Dondozo faints?

- Is there ANYTHING that can hit Tatsugiri when its eaten?

- How does the damage calculation for spread moves work against Dondozo?
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Double Threat
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method: tera bug the bug type, hit a wild mon with stab bug bite. catch it, see how much damage it did and what the def stat is. put it into damage calc and see what bp makes the damage make sense. repeat as needed to get more damage rolls. ended up seeing damage ranges of 84-103 bp and 66-83 bp which is clearly impossible, but indicates that there was some rounding shenanigans going on (and that the bp was around low 80s). all of the damage rolls worked with 60 bp bug bite + adaptability.

probably should have someone else run some more tests as i've only done about a dozen, but i've seen what i'm pretty sure are min and max rolls and i'd be very surprised if the multiplier was anything but 4/3 (2x total stab bonus).
I am wondering if anyone can confirm by testing (not guessing or reading the description) how the Abilities Vessel of Ruin/Sword of Ruin/Beads of Ruin/Tablets of Ruin work.
I have seen people widely assuming that they lower their respective stat on entry like Intimidate, but their description makes me believe it is possible that they work more like Dark Aura or Battery.

- Do these Abilities have an activation message at all?

- Is the stat change an explicit one-time stat stage debuff (like Intimidate: it goes away when the affected Pokémon leaves and can be repeated when the user is sent back in),
or is it a passive modifier (like Battery: it applies as long as the Pokémon with the Ability is present, goes away when it leaves, and does not care about when other Pokémon enter or leave)?

- If there's any chance of getting a rough ballpark for the modifier, that would be awesome, too! but no pressure there at this early stage - I would be really happy just to know the most basic level of what they do, honestly!

None of the footage I have seen of the Pokémon with these Abilities shows them in action, as sources like @PalkiaOrigin on Twitter have been hacking them in and therefore using the wrong Abilities (like Limber from whatever Pokémon it was before they modded its species).
This is really important information to me if anyone could confirm it ;-; Thank you so much!!

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