Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

Thank you, but I asked it aware of that fact.
I was hoping for a quick test since mechanics behave weirdly at times.
This is equivalent to asking to test if each individual move is boosted by Sheer Force just because Jet Punch is (but without the specific reason to think the move might work strangely). With how much there already is to test in a new game, double-checking things we already have a reasonable understanding of is very low priority unless there’s a specific reason to suspect our current belief is wrong.
 
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Anubis

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Last Respects caps out at 100 KOs, or 5050 base power.

My setup:
- Wild Ditto copies a mon with Recycle, and I Tricked it a Leppa Berry.
- Houndstone with Last Respects (and Trick/Heal Pulse for utility, local hacks are OK).
- 4 Memento mons.
- A ton of Revive/Elixir.
- Debugger to print every attack's Base Power as it goes off.
- Set all final damage to 1 to keep the battle going indefinitely.
- Several hours sacrificing Diglett.

1670096608684.png


The hard cap is on the death count; it only does a +1 if the current value is 99 or under.
1670100596122.png


Here's a video demonstrating that it doesn't go up past 5050.
 
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Anubis

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Double post, yay.

Supreme Overlord isn't an attack modifier, but a base power modifier.

It works like this:
- It uses the total deaths in the current battle, same as what Last Respects uses. Reviving an ally doesn't decrease this counter.
- The move is capped at 5 deaths. Even though the counter goes up to 100, any further deaths won't increase the effect.
- Base Power is calculated using float arithmetic, using this table:

0 KO = 1.0 multiplier
1 KO = 1.1 multiplier
2 KO = 1.2 multiplier
3 KO = 1.3 multiplier
4 KO = 1.4 multiplier
5 KO = 1.5 multiplier

1670106203084.png


The value is rounded up.

Code:
Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 18, 0x00000044355675b4 in ?? ()
$45 = 233

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 21, 0x0000004435567d88 in ?? ()
$46 = 51

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 19, 0x0000004435567d98 in ?? ()
$47 = 75

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 20, 0x0000004435567d9c in ?? ()
$48 = 80
Level 75 Kingambit with 233 attack vs 51 def Oinkologne, using Iron Head, no deaths.

Code:
Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 18, 0x00000044355675b4 in ?? ()
$53 = 233

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 21, 0x0000004435567d88 in ?? ()
$54 = 51

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 19, 0x0000004435567d98 in ?? ()
$55 = 75

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 20, 0x0000004435567d9c in ?? ()
$56 = 88
Level 75 Kingambit with 233 attack vs 51 def Oinkologne, using Iron Head, 1 death.

Code:
Thread 13 "JobThread2" hit Breakpoint 18, 0x00000044355675b4 in ?? ()
$57 = 233

Thread 13 "JobThread2" hit Breakpoint 21, 0x0000004435567d88 in ?? ()
$58 = 51

Thread 13 "JobThread2" hit Breakpoint 19, 0x0000004435567d98 in ?? ()
$59 = 75

Thread 13 "JobThread2" hit Breakpoint 20, 0x0000004435567d9c in ?? ()
$60 = 104
Level 75 Kingambit with 233 attack vs 51 def Oinkologne, using Iron Head, 3 deaths.

Code:
Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 18, 0x00000044355675b4 in ?? ()
$97 = 233

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 21, 0x0000004435567d88 in ?? ()
$98 = 51

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 19, 0x0000004435567d98 in ?? ()
$99 = 75

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 20, 0x0000004435567d9c in ?? ()
$100 = 111
Level 75 Kingambit with 233 attack vs 51 def Oinkologne, using Kowtow Cleave, 3 deaths.
 
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Currently in Metronome Battles, if a Normal-type Protean/Libero mon uses Metronome, it only changes type once it calls a non-Normal-type move.

If a Libero Cinderace uses a Fire-type move the first turn it is out, does Libero fix its typing as mono-Fire that turn? What happens to Cinderace's typing if it uses a non-Fire-type move the turn after that?
 
Currently in Metronome Battles, if a Normal-type Protean/Libero mon uses Metronome, it only changes type once it calls a non-Normal-type move.

If a Libero Cinderace uses a Fire-type move the first turn it is out, does Libero fix its typing as mono-Fire that turn? What happens to Cinderace's typing if it uses a non-Fire-type move the turn after that?
I already asked Karthik this and he told me that Libero is not triggered in this case, instead it waits until Cinderace uses a move of a different type to Cinderace itself. (I assume you could start by using Fire type moves, then Hatterene could use Magic Powder on it, then you could use Psychic type moves, but Libero would still not have activated.)
 
Also, gonna take the chance to bump my question from Page 2 just in case it went by unnoticed:
I found the answer btw. Wind Power doesn't stack with Charge, which means they likely apply the same status flag on the user.

I have a different question to make, still related to Wind Power.
I see that Electromorphosis activates multiple times for multihit moves even though it likely also applies the exact same status flag, judging by how it (supposedly) doesn't stack with neither Wind Power nor Charge (GJ if so, Game Freak!).
Could anyone tell me if Wind Power also has this property? If it activates multiple times for multihit moves?

Also, does it activate even if the Pokémon is about to faint? I heard Electromorphosis does, hence why I feel the need to ask.
Thanks
 
Double post, yay.

Supreme Overlord isn't an attack modifier, but a base power modifier.

It works like this:
- It uses the total deaths in the current battle, same as what Last Respects uses. Reviving an ally doesn't decrease this counter.
- The move is capped at 5 deaths. Even though the counter goes up to 100, any further deaths won't increase the effect.
- Base Power is calculated using float arithmetic, using this table:

0 KO = 1.0 multiplier
1 KO = 1.1 multiplier
2 KO = 1.2 multiplier
3 KO = 1.3 multiplier
4 KO = 1.4 multiplier
5 KO = 1.5 multiplier

View attachment 470525

The value is rounded up.

Code:
Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 18, 0x00000044355675b4 in ?? ()
$45 = 233

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 21, 0x0000004435567d88 in ?? ()
$46 = 51

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 19, 0x0000004435567d98 in ?? ()
$47 = 75

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 20, 0x0000004435567d9c in ?? ()
$48 = 80
Level 75 Kingambit with 233 attack vs 51 def Oinkologne, using Iron Head, no deaths.

Code:
Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 18, 0x00000044355675b4 in ?? ()
$53 = 233

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 21, 0x0000004435567d88 in ?? ()
$54 = 51

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 19, 0x0000004435567d98 in ?? ()
$55 = 75

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 20, 0x0000004435567d9c in ?? ()
$56 = 88
Level 75 Kingambit with 233 attack vs 51 def Oinkologne, using Iron Head, 1 death.

Code:
Thread 13 "JobThread2" hit Breakpoint 18, 0x00000044355675b4 in ?? ()
$57 = 233

Thread 13 "JobThread2" hit Breakpoint 21, 0x0000004435567d88 in ?? ()
$58 = 51

Thread 13 "JobThread2" hit Breakpoint 19, 0x0000004435567d98 in ?? ()
$59 = 75

Thread 13 "JobThread2" hit Breakpoint 20, 0x0000004435567d9c in ?? ()
$60 = 104
Level 75 Kingambit with 233 attack vs 51 def Oinkologne, using Iron Head, 3 deaths.

Code:
Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 18, 0x00000044355675b4 in ?? ()
$97 = 233

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 21, 0x0000004435567d88 in ?? ()
$98 = 51

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 19, 0x0000004435567d98 in ?? ()
$99 = 75

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 20, 0x0000004435567d9c in ?? ()
$100 = 111
Level 75 Kingambit with 233 attack vs 51 def Oinkologne, using Kowtow Cleave, 3 deaths.
I'm pretty bad with math, does this make Kingambit weaker or stronger (relative to our old understanding of his ability)? Can't tell.

EDIT: Ran some calcs in the damage calculator, and it seems move damage boosts and stat boosts are basically the same thing as far as I can tell.

Ran Metal Coat Iron Head vs Kingambit with a 20% higher attack stat (rounded up) and the results were identical.
 
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Has there been a change to Misty Terrain? I'm specifically wondering if it might now give Fairy moves a 1.3x boost. I've had a few in-game interactions that seemed like awfully suspicious damage rolls, if they weren't due to an unforeseen modifier.
Level 54 Florges with 128 SpA did 120 damage with Moonblast in Misty Terrain to Iron Hands with 87 SpD at +1. That damage roll is too low for even a 1.1x multiplier, so I think it’s safe to say that Misty Terrain didn’t boost the damage at all.


Lvl 54 0 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. +1 Lvl 55 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands: 114-134 (47.1 - 55.3%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (114, 114, 116, 116, 120, 120, 120, 122, 122, 126, 126, 128, 128, 132, 132, 134)
 
Was reading the UU thread and someone mentioned about the Rocky Payload with Tera Rock multiplier being 2.25x, so I just went ahead to confirm it.

Level 75 Bombirder with 163 Atk using Rock Slide vs 134 Def Brute Bonnet

expected damage without Tera:

Lvl 75 0- Atk Rocky Payload Bombirdier Rock Slide vs. Lvl 59 0 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 75-89 (33.7 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89)

actual damage with Tera: 212-86 = 126 = 1.5 x 84

So yeah, the multipliers stack. This should be the same for Steelworker and Tera Steel, as well as Water Bubble with Tera Water too.

Also, Rocky Payload does not affect Stealth Rock damage.
 

GMars

It's ya boy GEEEEEEEEMARS
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However there is a interesting thing where Tera-Blast on my Pixilate Sylveon is actually fairy type before Teraing.
Sadly since my Sylveon is Tera-Fire, i can't exactly check what happens after that (after Teraing, it correctly becomes Fire Type)
Do we know the interaction between Pixilate & Tera Blast? If Sylveon Tera’d into the Normal type, will Tera Blast stay Normal or turn Fairy & be boosted by Pixilate?
Can confirm that if you don't Terastilize, Tera Blast gets the Pixilate bonus of turning Fairy-type and 1.2x damage.

Damage Rolls: 48, 51, 50

252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Tera Blast with 1.2x Pixilate Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 46-54 (29.8 - 35%) -- 21.2% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (46, 46, 47, 48, 48, 48, 49, 50, 50, 51, 51, 52, 52, 53, 54, 54)

252+ SpA Sylveon Tera Blast without 1.2x Pixilate Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 38-45 (24.6 - 29.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
Possible damage amounts: (38, 39, 39, 39, 40, 40, 41, 42, 42, 42, 42, 43, 44, 44, 45, 45)

Zard stats:


Sylveon stats:


Damage Rolls:




Fairy-typing on Tera Blast:
 
I found the answer btw. Wind Power doesn't stack with Charge, which means they likely apply the same status flag on the user.

I have a different question to make, still related to Wind Power.
I see that Electromorphosis activates multiple times for multihit moves even though it likely also applies the exact same status flag, judging by how it (supposedly) doesn't stack with neither Wind Power nor Charge (GJ if so, Game Freak!).
Could anyone tell me if Wind Power also has this property? If it activates multiple times for multihit moves?

Also, does it activate even if the Pokémon is about to faint? I heard Electromorphosis does, hence why I feel the need to ask.
Thanks
Not sure how that could be tested, since there are no multi-hit wind moves? :smogthink:
 
Not sure how that could be tested, since there are no multi-hit wind moves? :smogthink:
Like Dunsparce Fanboy implied, one could potentially cheat in Parental Bond via PkHax into any Pokémon and then use a Wind move such as Gust against a Kilowattrel with Wind Power

Now, normally, that ability is exclusive to Kangaskhan so there are chances that the ability is not functional because it wouldn't be normally obtainable.
Kangaskhan isn't even in the list of Home transfers present in RoiDadadou's sheet, so doing such a test would clear out one thing or the other at worst; whether Wind Power does trigger multiple times for multihit moves, and/or whether Parental Bond is fully implemented and working in SV.
 
Like Dunsparce Fanboy implied, one could potentially cheat in Parental Bond via PkHax into any Pokémon and then use a Wind move such as Gust against a Kilowattrel with Wind Power

Now, normally, that ability is exclusive to Kangaskhan so there are chances that the ability is not functional because it wouldn't be normally obtainable.
Kangaskhan isn't even in the list of Home transfers present in RoiDadadou's sheet, so doing such a test would clear out one thing or the other at worst; whether Wind Power does trigger multiple times for multihit moves, and/or whether Parental Bond is fully implemented and working in SV.
Yeah, that would have to be the way. Hopefully it is implemented so it could be used for testing.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
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Covert Cloak blocks Salt Cure. This isn't currently implemented on Showdown. There's probably more we're missing about this item but this is likely the most pressing.


Edit: Have to go but wanted to run through one more set of checks. I don't have time to check how Showdown currently implements these but I'll list them for posterity.
Covert Cloak does NOT block:
• Partial Trapping effects (Infestation, etc)
• Parting Shot stat drops or switch (Or switch effects on any U-Turn type move)
• Detrimental effects your opponents suffer from their own attacking moves (Overheat, etc)
 
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That all seems consistent with (I think, sorry I can't find the post to verify) Wobl's research on it.
1) Both Sheer Force and Shield Dust block all effects of the "does damage and inflicts a status" category of moves, with the "bound" status of partial trap moves notably excluded.
2) Parting Shot's stat drops are its "primary" effect, and switching effects are handled separately (iirc Dragon Tail still forces the switch, but I could be wrong)
3) Moves that are in the category of "does damage and affects stats" are notedly split into changing stats for the user and for the opponent, so it also shouldn't block things like Rapid Spin Speed boosts.

All this and also "Salt Cure is a status", I suppose!
 
Getting more relevant since we started playing Gen 9 Pure Hackmons games on the main Showdown server (and this will be at least slightly relevant in Gen 9 The Loser's Game):
  • Does Good As Gold block Ghost Curse? Alternately, does it let the Ghost opponent lose half their max. HP but let the Good As Gold targeted user be completely unaffected by the Curse status?
 
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Getting more relevant since we started playing Gen 9 Pure Hackmons games on the main Showdown server (and this will be at least slightly relevant in Gen 9 The Loser's Game):
  • Does Good As Gold block Ghost Curse? Alternately, does it let the Ghost opponent lose half their max. HP but let the Good As Gold targeted user be completely unaffected by the Curse status?
Good As Gold blocks Ghost-type curse and prevents the HP loss.

 
Dumb question. Do abilities such as Protosynthesis, Quark Drive, Orichalcum Pulse and Hadron Engine activate only during Switch In, or they can be activated later too?
For example, if I send out a Miraidon on the first turn of a battle and then I make it use Electric Terrain to set up an electric field terrain, does Hadron Engine activate after the move or do you need to Switch Out Miraidon and then switch it back in?
I imagine that it does activate normally, but I'm not seeing confirmation of this anywhere (granted, I can be super blind sometimes.) so it'd be nice to have that
 
Dumb question. Do abilities such as Protosynthesis, Quark Drive, Orichalcum Pulse and Hadron Engine activate only during Switch In, or they can be activated later too?
For example, if I send out a Miraidon on the first turn of a battle and then I make it use Electric Terrain to set up an electric field terrain, does Hadron Engine activate after the move or do you need to Switch Out Miraidon and then switch it back in?
I imagine that it does activate normally, but I'm not seeing confirmation of this anywhere (granted, I can be super blind sometimes.) so it'd be nice to have that
They will activate or de-activate any time the effect happens. This happens very often during the raids in fact.

Es, Miraidon + Iron Hands are in, Quark Drive + Hadron Engine activates. Koraidon dies, comes back, Hadron Engine reactivates (only for the boost).
If Miraidon was to die again after the terrain is set, or terrain is set again (i do this occasionally with Pincurchin in fact), Quark Drive AND Hadron Engine will re-activate again (if Miraidon is still on the field, he'll receive the Hadron Engine damage boost message)
 
They will activate or de-activate any time the effect happens. This happens very often during the raids in fact.

Es, Miraidon + Iron Hands are in, Quark Drive + Hadron Engine activates. Koraidon dies, comes back, Hadron Engine reactivates (only for the boost).
If Miraidon was to die again after the terrain is set, or terrain is set again (i do this occasionally with Pincurchin in fact), Quark Drive AND Hadron Engine will re-activate again (if Miraidon is still on the field, he'll receive the Hadron Engine damage boost message)
Oh god. I don't know why did I bring up Orichalcum Pulse and Hadron Engine at all, LMAO.
Those abilities generate sun and an electric terrain respectively. Of course they'll activate if neither condition is in effect.

I'm really sorry, I must be getting really tired. Been re-coding ability effects for a few hours now, haha.
My question was actually specific to Protosynthesis and Quark Drive.
If you send out a Great Tusk and a Slither Wing, and then you use Sunny Day with Slither Wing, does Great Tusk's Protosynthesis activate?
 
If you send out a Great Tusk and a Slither Wing, and then you use Sunny Day with Slither Wing, does Great Tusk's Protosynthesis activate?
It does. I specifically have Sunny Day on my raid support Scream Tail specifically to buff other past Paradoxes (or myself) in case of no Koraidon (or Koraidon just dies).

Functionally, the abilities of Koraidon and Miraidon are just Drought / Electric Surge + 30% boost to their offense (kinda like Calyrex has 2 abilities in a sense).

Protosyntesis and Quark Drive will activate in any activation of the appropriate condition and will dissipate at the removal of said condition.
For all means they work same of Swift Swim or Solar Power, except they also have a "activation popup".

Notable exception: Booster Energy-triggered ability will not deactivate (or reactivate) in response the condition while it's active.
 
Hey just a mechanical note, but it doesn't say on the data dumps that Stone Axe and Ceaseless Edge have increased crit stage, despite their descriptions suggesting it. Is there an increased crit rate handled somewhere else in their effect sequence, or is Showdown's implementation incorrect?

For reference, MoveData from the slp/Kaphotics dumps:
1670203622510.png


And the Smogon Move Pages:
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/moves/stone-axe/
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/moves/ceaseless-edge/

EDIT: Dire Claw too! They really pulled high crit from everything, it seems like.

EDIT2: It also says that Triple Arrows has a 10% Flinch chance, when the Kaphotics dump clearly shows it as 30 (the 0s are the inflict stats and the 1 is the increased crit stage)

1670204076588.png


EDIT3: Ally Switch also has a chance to fail when used in succession now, is that implemented? It's not in the description so I'm double-checking. Also is Ally Switch's failure condition also linked with Protection moves?
 
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Marty

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Research Leader
Bunch of stuff here!

So I was testing for the Supreme Overlord modifier rounding and here are some results.
level 100 Kingambit, 319 Attack VS 230 Defense Baxcalibur
Kingambit switches in after one ally fainted

Kowtow Cleave

if 93 power
(139, 141, 142, 144, 145, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 156, 157, 159, 160, 162, 165)

if 94 power
(141, 142, 144, 145, 147, 148, 151, 153, 154, 156, 157, 159, 160, 162, 163, 166)

363-222 = 141
277-120 = 157
363-215 = 148
279-132 = 147
241-100 = 141
279-138 = 141
279-119 = 160
273-125 = 148
273-32 = 241 (crit?)
(knocked out and revived Baxcalibur)
342-195 = 147
339-192 = 147
342-197 = 145
339-173 = 166
363-218 = 145
342-197 = 145
363-203 = 160
340-195 = 145
344-203 = 141
(knocked out another ally, keeping Kingambit active)
322-162 = 160
351-132 = 219 (crit?)
332-184 = 148
320-164 = 156
(switched Kingambit out and back in)
319-127 = 192
320-128 = 192
339-155 = 184
244-58 = 186
Annoyingly, the game doesn't print the message when attacks against your own ally (that don't animate?) are critical hits or super effective so you just have to guess. (Patch?? Please??) Anyway, it's clear that Supreme Overlord's boost with one fainted ally is slightly higher than the average 1.1x modifier (4505/4096) to be able to round up to 94 power, so it's 4506/4096.

What's also clear is that Supreme Overlord did not increase its modifier as more allies fainted while Kingambit stayed active. You have to switch out and back in to "gain strength from the fallen" and renew the fainted Pokemon counter's effect on Supreme Overlord. Anubis shows this is not the case for Last Respects, alongside Supreme Overlord:
1.png
Houndstone used Last Respects, Kingambit used Kowtow Cleave
Last Respects 50 power, Kowtow Cleave 85 power
first Houndstone faints, replaced with Houndstone2
2.png
Houndstone2 used Last Respects, Kingambit used Kowtow Cleave
Last Respects 100 power, Kowtow Cleave 85 power
Houndstone2 remains on the field, Kingambit switches to another Houndstone which faints, Kingambit comes back in
3.png
Houndstone2 used Last Respects, Kingambit used Kowtow Cleave
Last Respects 150 power, Kowtow Cleave 102 power

After all this fun, Anubis was able to check the Collision Course modifier when super effective (while fixing the roll to always be max damage).
4.png
2000 is the final damage dealt to a Cetoddle.
5.png
After a Soak on another Cetoddle with the same stats, the damage is now 750.

Collision Course's damage modifier when super effective is 5461/4096, or 1.3333x.

Now, the 324 in the two screenshots above is the Koraidon's final Attack stat, but here are its unmodified stats:
6.png


Which means Orichalcum Pulse's Attack modifier is also 5461/4096, or 1.3333x.

She then finagled a way to output the exact modifiers during battle just to double check.
7.png
8.png
Protosynthesis non-Speed modifier is 5325/4096, or 1.3x
Protosynthesis Speed modifier is 6144/4096, or 1.5x

Woo!
 

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