SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

-Slither Wing looks underwhelming. Good Attack and decent bulk, but not much else. Bug/Fighting is an interesting defensive type as we see with Buzzwole, but it worked on Buzzwole because it had excellent physical bulk to take neutral hits quite well, which Slither Wing does not have. Probably not gonna be very good.
It probably gets victory dance as a physical replacement for QD,but we dont even know if victory dance is in the game yet so i might be wrong.
 
Am back, here's a pile of design opinions.

General ability notes: Definitely hoping that the ability has some way to activate (even in a lesser form) without always requiring the cover legend. I'd prefer if the mons aren't purely blunt instruments with high stats in formats that don't allow 670 BST mons.

Magneton: Yeah, I'll give this one to them. The filings on the non-leg magnets is a nice callback to Probopass and Golem-A, and it's definitely a method to keep the standard facing while dropping the floating aspect.

Salamence: There's a part of me that thinks that Mence without Flying is missing the thematic point of the line.

Misdreavus: Honestly doesn't look that distinct compared to regular.

Future forms in general: An interesting note about the relative lack of Steel: the part that's the mon's namesake is consistently depicted as brightly colored and sparkling (donphan's central colunm, volcarona's wings, haryama's palms, hydreigon's collars, tyranitar's spikes, delibird's sack, gallevoir's blades and 'heart', miraidon's wheels). So the most important part is one of the few that isn't shown as metallic.

Honestly, I like that a consistent design thread is there between the future mons. If you're going to have the same Ability between a bunch of robots, being able to look at them and figure out where the Quark Drive probably is feels nice. (also, shoutouts to the pairing of Quark Drive and Hadron Engine actually making sense. Orichalcum is only originally mentioned in the context of being used by relatively advanced civilizations, so it's at odds with prehisotic mons)

Hydreigon: There is actually a small design change that I think really fits. The parts surrounding the minor heads are bigger and more rigid. In addition to putting the Iron Jugulis in, well, Iron Jugulis, reducing access to the side heads fits the typing and stat changes. It loses out on the ability to bite effectively with those limbs at the same time it gets -25 Atk and loses STAB for Bite and Crunch.
 

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In all honesty, I can't even justify why large chunks of Ubers are there anymore.
Would Palkia really break the meta of Tapu Fini, Dragapult, and Glowking?
I have the opposite problem. I lost interest in OU as it gradually filled up with legendaries and super forms.

Way back when, competitive Pokémon had this charm, you know, where it felt like trainers gathered with their top-trained Pokémon gathered from all over the wilds, or nursed from Eggs, and trained during long travels across the land. The Pokémon you saw featured in the analyses were finely trained and equipped with rare TM moves, but they were ordinary enough otherwise: Breloom, Forretress, Gengar, Starmie, Jolteon, Blissey ... You could imagine a tournament of Average Joes carrying these Pokémon. Sure, there were the occasional legendaries in OU even back in the RSE days, but they were quite few and far between.

Over time, though, as power creep did its inevitable thing, OU ended up being mostly populated by Pokémon that lore-wise were the stuff of legends or once-in-a-generation miracles. One-off guardian deities, Ultra Beasts from another dimension, the incredibly rare Mega Evolution phenomenon, mythical beings ... stuff the Average Joe should count himself blessed if he ever saw one of, once in his life, from a great distance . Managing to find, capture, and master multiple such miracles is just the entry level required to get anywhere in that competitive metagame.

I think Gen VII was the worst in this regard. The list of SM OU 'mons is a game of "spot the Pokémon available to every trainer on the street". SS is better, but still very legend-heavy. Of course, mechanics-wise, there's little difference between a Ho-Oh and a Talonflame, but the perception of it all would be very different if everybody ran around with a Ho-Oh all the time. Ho-Oh is meant to be this unique, god-like creature of ancient legend, while Talonflame can be spotted in any random forest.

I wonder if there's a custom meta for Average Joes, where legendary Pokémon and miracle super forms are outright banned. I sometimes think about what that would look like.
 
Yup. Scarlet won. At least Scarlet has something more creative than just old Pokemon as robots.
a quick question on this topic, what was everyone expecting the future/violet Paradox Pokémon to look like? Given what we knew, they were obviously going to look robotic to some extent, I get that they could've looked a bit better but Gallade, Delibird and Volcarona all look really cool.

I feel like a lot of people thought they were going to be like.. evolutions that happened in the future but if you focused on what Khu was saying and how also Miraidon looked (Who we knew for a while was a Paradox Mon) it should have given an inclination that they were going to be robotic. Seems to me like people set themselves up for disappointment based on what they thought they would be, rather than looking at what we knew.

But hey, Pokémon fans being logical? as real as these paradox mons I'm afraid :ghorse:

(sorry if this comes across confrontational at you personally, it's just a general thought after seeing the reception to the Violet mons)
 
I have the opposite problem. I lost interest in OU as it gradually filled up with legendaries and super forms.

Way back when, competitive Pokémon had this charm, you know, where it felt like trainers gathered with their top-trained Pokémon gathered from all over the wilds, or nursed from Eggs, and trained during long travels across the land. The Pokémon you saw featured in the analyses were finely trained and equipped with rare TM moves, but they were ordinary enough otherwise: Breloom, Forretress, Gengar, Starmie, Jolteon, Blissey ... You could imagine a tournament of Average Joes carrying these Pokémon. Sure, there were the occasional legendaries in OU even back in the RSE days, but they were quite few and far between.

Over time, though, as power creep did its inevitable thing, OU ended up being mostly populated by Pokémon that lore-wise were the stuff of legends or once-in-a-generation miracles. One-off guardian deities, Ultra Beasts from another dimension, the incredibly rare Mega Evolution phenomenon, mythical beings ... stuff the Average Joe should count himself blessed if he ever saw one of, once in his life, from a great distance . Managing to find, capture, and master multiple such miracles is just the entry level required to get anywhere in that competitive metagame.

I think Gen VII was the worst in this regard. The list of SM OU 'mons is a game of "spot the Pokémon available to every trainer on the street". SS is better, but still very legend-heavy. Of course, mechanics-wise, there's little difference between a Ho-Oh and a Talonflame, but the perception of it all would be very different if everybody ran around with a Ho-Oh all the time. Ho-Oh is meant to be this unique, god-like creature of ancient legend, while Talonflame can be spotted in any random forest.

I wonder if there's a custom meta for Average Joes, where legendary Pokémon and miracle super forms are outright banned. I sometimes think about what that would look like.

Totally agree with this post. I think that there are two main problems:
-The increased amount of legends in recent Gens.
-Back in Gen 1-3 Legends were mostly (with exceptions like Jirachi) balanced by poor Movepools. Nowadays its not the case, they get the most powerful Moves combined with the most powerful Stats. This is a very bad change of policy for me. Hopefully a real Movexit happens this time and moves like Rocks, Knock Off and Toxic have worse distribution in SV, with average Mons getting some of them but not the legends.
 
I wonder if there's a custom meta for Average Joes, where legendary Pokémon and miracle super forms are outright banned. I sometimes think about what that would look like.
There is, it's early SwSh meta, which I believe is regarded as one of the worst metas ever.

Problem being, while the perception of a "legendary" vs "non legendary" is what it is, in practice it's still the same: everyone uses the same top cut pokemon.

Pre-Natdex VGC is same, sure you see very few legendaries, but in concept it's still the same, but instead of Lando-T and Urshifu in every team, you have Arcanine and Togekiss in every team. In fact early SwSh VGC was a terrible offender of this, and there was basically no legendary allowed (other than uuuh the sword of justice I guess).

Like, I understand the perception issue, but when it comes to putting it in practice, "legendary-less" meta is exactly the same as a normal meta, just with different names.
 
I have the opposite problem. I lost interest in OU as it gradually filled up with legendaries and super forms.

Way back when, competitive Pokémon had this charm, you know, where it felt like trainers gathered with their top-trained Pokémon gathered from all over the wilds, or nursed from Eggs, and trained during long travels across the land. The Pokémon you saw featured in the analyses were finely trained and equipped with rare TM moves, but they were ordinary enough otherwise: Breloom, Forretress, Gengar, Starmie, Jolteon, Blissey ... You could imagine a tournament of Average Joes carrying these Pokémon. Sure, there were the occasional legendaries in OU even back in the RSE days, but they were quite few and far between.

Over time, though, as power creep did its inevitable thing, OU ended up being mostly populated by Pokémon that lore-wise were the stuff of legends or once-in-a-generation miracles. One-off guardian deities, Ultra Beasts from another dimension, the incredibly rare Mega Evolution phenomenon, mythical beings ... stuff the Average Joe should count himself blessed if he ever saw one of, once in his life, from a great distance . Managing to find, capture, and master multiple such miracles is just the entry level required to get anywhere in that competitive metagame.

I think Gen VII was the worst in this regard. The list of SM OU 'mons is a game of "spot the Pokémon available to every trainer on the street". SS is better, but still very legend-heavy. Of course, mechanics-wise, there's little difference between a Ho-Oh and a Talonflame, but the perception of it all would be very different if everybody ran around with a Ho-Oh all the time. Ho-Oh is meant to be this unique, god-like creature of ancient legend, while Talonflame can be spotted in any random forest.

I wonder if there's a custom meta for Average Joes, where legendary Pokémon and miracle super forms are outright banned. I sometimes think about what that would look like.
I can relate to this. I stopped playing competitive seriously back in Black and White 2. My favourite generation is and will forever be DPPt in terms of competitive. It seemed like a perfect balance between powerful but fair mons and not stats over 400 everywhere in both sweepers and walls, not regenerator shit and no teleport spam. If you made a mistake you'd sure pay for it. I also don't like team preview, since I think it artificially encourages predictions that shouldn't be there in the first place and negates the importance of the knowledge regarding team composition so you could infer what mon your rival is using by gradually seeing what their mons were.

We are talking about a generation where Lucario was a peak cleaner and people used Flygon. Again, before Pokémon with 400 in every important stat appeared.
 
a quick question on this topic, what was everyone expecting the future/violet Paradox Pokémon to look like? Given what we knew, they were obviously going to look robotic to some extent, I get that they could've looked a bit better but Gallade, Delibird and Volcarona all look really cool.

I feel like a lot of people thought they were going to be like.. evolutions that happened in the future but if you focused on what Khu was saying and how also Miraidon looked (Who we knew for a while was a Paradox Mon) it should have given an inclination that they were going to be robotic. Seems to me like people set themselves up for disappointment based on what they thought they would be, rather than looking at what we knew.

But hey, Pokémon fans being logical? as real as these paradox mons I'm afraid :ghorse:

(sorry if this comes across confrontational at you personally, it's just a general thought after seeing the reception to the Violet mons)
i agree, personally all i expected from the violet mons was cool robots and that's exactly what happened. the robot thing just makes the most sense from a marketing perspective and imo is just a cool idea in general. only beef i have is that you can tell game freak was really reaching with the types to not make them all steels or electric
 
There is, it's early SwSh meta, which I believe is regarded as one of the worst metas ever.

Problem being, while the perception of a "legendary" vs "non legendary" is what it is, in practice it's still the same: everyone uses the same top cut pokemon.
Early SS Meta had some huge problems with Arena Trap, Dracovish, etc.

DLC1 Meta is what I think was the best SS Meta by far. Lots of Pokemon came back, but only 3 of them were legendaries (Urshifu forms and Magearna, which was banned eventually). I really liked a the styles that emerged in that Meta and all the experiments with weaker Mons (Centiskorcg, Poliwrath, Roserade, Heracross, etc.) that worked. Only thing that I would have fixed was banning Dark Urshifu, but other than that, I really enjoyed that Meta with low legends amount (though it being my Pokemon career peack might have something to do with that). Then DLC2 came, all legends came back and only the ones I actually liked in the Meta (Pheromosa, Kyurem and Zygarde) were banned, so the meta got ruined for me.
 
Is this true?

What the fuck is that 135 135 135 spread on Mismagius.
Take it with a grain of salt,,,I only trust Pearl enthusiast for the real leaks on twitter and he still not sure about this whether its true or not,,,But if thats the case then this think will just straight up OU, The only paradox pokemon that is faster than it is the...Delibird (weird -_-)
 
So given that these straight up two standard word things seem to be the Paradox mons' actual names, why? The Doxphans have normal names in Japanese, Great Tusk is イダイナキバ (Idainakiba) and Iron Treads is テツノワダチ (Tetsunowadachi), not multiple regular words.
 
Early SS Meta had some huge problems with Arena Trap, Dracovish, etc.

DLC1 Meta is what I think was the best SS Meta by far. Lots of Pokemon came back, but only 3 of them were legendaries (Urshifu forms and Magearna, which was banned eventually). I really liked a the styles that emerged in that Meta and all the experiments with weaker Mons (Centiskorcg, Poliwrath, Roserade, Heracross, etc.) that worked. Only thing that I would have fixed was banning Dark Urshifu, but other than that, I really enjoyed that Meta with low legends amount (though it being my Pokemon career peack might have something to do with that). Then DLC2 came, all legends came back and only the ones I actually liked in the Meta (Pheromosa, Kyurem and Zygarde) were banned, so the meta got ruined for me.
Yes but the point I wanted to make is that it's just a "perception" issue.

People tunnel behind the legendaries, but I don't see people complaining about Toxapex and Incineroar everywh--- ok, I lie, I do.

Realistically speaking, one can like or not like the pokemon, but I think it's been enough years that people need to accept that removing legendaries doesn't make a meta more diverse or fun. It just changes the names at the top, while maintaining the same exact landscape.

As FSG says often, "tier X resembled tier X+1 from previous gen", and that is more or less the case. If you want "OU without leges"... you basically just go to UU, which has exactly the same problems as OU, with different names.

And if UU has too many leges, same applies to RU: same concept, same "X pokes have most of the usage", you just change names.

I don't doubt that expecially with paradox pokemon joining, OU will likely be basically only leges, pseudo leges, and similar "unique" pokes that happen to have higher budget... and you can find everything else in UU instead.
 
Take it with a grain of salt,,,I only trust Pearl enthusiast for the real leaks on twitter and he still not sure about this whether its true or not,,,But if thats the case then this think will just straight up OU, The only paradox pokemon that is faster than it is the...Delibird (weird -_-)
delibird supremacy! we're all on the naughty list.

also, as a side note, PearlEnthusiast isn't a leaker, they just collate evidence and leaks like Centro (without the ego)
 
Wait a sec, I just noticed something guys

Big brain time

So know how people were saying that Roaring Moon looks a bit more like Mega Salamence than regular Salamence?

B81931D4-592D-4C86-8084-1F59E7A7EA59.jpeg
9E192711-8887-4F1F-8C7B-5F8DA7334E02.png

I don’t think that’s a coincidence. I was looking at its counterpart, Iron Valiant, and I noticed that I don’t think it’s actually Gallade + Gardevoir as people were claiming. I think it’s based specifically on Mega Gallade!

D60A788A-B110-4473-BEE4-CBD61BCA6702.jpeg
D73F1D68-C8F4-44B5-8E32-DB138C1C884B.png

SO GAME FREAK REMEMBERED THAT MEGAS EXISTED

…Oh, and I’m curious what it means for the lore too of course lol

EDIT: Actually, I think Iron Valiant does have Gardevoir in it after all.

Mega Gardevoir! Look at the sleeves:

6F41EE36-B45F-446A-87C6-D37161964C12.png
 
a quick question on this topic, what was everyone expecting the future/violet Paradox Pokémon to look like?
In general, Past would have ancient/historical motifs and be more monsterous, and Future would be future/sci-fi motifs. I expects Mechs for the future paradoxes, namely Mechatyranitar, but not everything to be just old Pokemon but as a mech. I was expecting Alien-like designs, Pokemon being more domesticated, and Cyborgs.
For specific things, I was expecting Jigglypuff to be a vampire like what the leaks said, and would look like Lugosi Dracula but as Jigglypuff, or Donphan being more like a mammoth. I was expecting Future Volcarona to be a poisonous Volcarona, after the typings were revealed. Something like Volcarona being toxic waste.
 
SO GAME FREAK REMEMBERED THAT MEGAS EXISTED

…Oh, and I’m curious what it means for the lore too of course lol
I doubt they're related to the megas in any way

BUT

Megas are stated to cause the pokemon to often go feral due to the massive stress and potentially pain of the induced mega evolution.
These Paradox pokemon do seem like feral pokemon who got unnaturally altered due to <plot reasons we don't know>

So the concept isnt too dissimilar, and I can definitely see valid reasoning for using megas as inspiration for their design
 

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While I understand the concern about a flood of high BST mons, I also really don't think all of them would be OU viable. Love Ungaboonguss but it aint OU material. Same could be said for The Iron Thorns and The Screaming Tail, and while we know literally nothing of the dark quartet, I doubt that a dark grass mon, who is probably slow and defensive (its a snail), is gonna be anywhere near OU either

Do think its incredibly hilarious that the ones that look the most viable are Misdreavus and Delibird tho lol
 
I doubt they're related to the megas in any way

BUT

Megas are stated to cause the pokemon to often go feral due to the massive stress and potentially pain of the induced mega evolution.
These Paradox pokemon do seem like feral pokemon who got unnaturally altered due to <plot reasons we don't know>

So the concept isnt too dissimilar, and I can definitely see valid reasoning for using megas as inspiration for their design
Related? I highly doubt it. But the two strongest Paradoxes base their designs around Megas, whereas the other Paradoxes don’t, even in the case of Tyranitar who actually has a Mega. That has to be intentional, at least as a design choice.
 
In general, Past would have ancient/historical motifs and be more monsterous, and Future would be future/sci-fi motifs. I expects Mechs for the future paradoxes, namely Mechatyranitar, but not everything to be just old Pokemon but as a mech. I was expecting Alien-like designs, Pokemon being more domesticated, and Cyborgs.
For specific things, I was expecting Jigglypuff to be a vampire like what the leaks said, and would look like Lugosi Dracula but as Jigglypuff, or Donphan being more like a mammoth. I was expecting Future Volcarona to be a poisonous Volcarona, after the typings were revealed. Something like Volcarona being toxic waste.
That's fair! And I can't lie some of those would've been v good, but I feel like that falls into the category of evolution, or adapting to environmental changes. Whereas it seems they're going with the Paradox theme, for a timeline that has never existed, but somehow also does, and that timeline is simply Pokémon who have had mechanical changes to them - whether it was forced, whether they were always that way, we don't know yet, but it makes for v interesting lore (and to me, the lore aspect makes Violet's group potentially more interesting than Scarlet)

Some of them could be more creative, nothing in the Violet category touches the insanity of Salamence, but I don't think the hysteria is warranted (Again, a general statement, not you specifically)
 

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