Format Discussion Scarlet/Violet Random Battle Sets

Dorron

BLU LOBSTAH
is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
I think the AV+Inti Luxray set should be removed. It absolutely lacks the raw power Guts sets have and it doesn't even have decent coverage for Grass and Ground types, their biggest counters. Ice Fang is extremely weak and half of the times it hits super effectively it is better to simply switch out and let other teammate deal with the opponent. And in case we are keeping the set, please make it always have Volt Switch. The Guts set is overall better and now more than ever with Tera.

If it is possible, consider removing White Herb mons as leads too. I can't count the number of times my lead was a Shell Smash user that had its Herb consumed due to an opposing Intimidate.
 
Moreover than the Kingambit defiant set, i just had the Glimmora Corrosion
-Balloon

-Spikes
-Toxik
-Sludge Wave
-Energy Ball

The generate set engine is really weird sometimes
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

moist and crusty
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Random Battle Lead
Moreover than the Kingambit defiant set, i just had the Glimmora Corrosion
-Balloon

-Spikes
-Toxik
-Sludge Wave
-Energy Ball

The generate set engine is really weird sometimes
This is intentional because it does not have coverage for Steels. It generates Corrosion when it gets Toxic and no Earth Power. This will not be changed. It gets Toxic Debris in literally every other situation. Please do not argue to fix it because it is not broken.
 

shiloh

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Tiering Lead
hello i got highish on ladder and wanted to suggest some sets:

- garganacls bulky setup set should be: iron defense / body press / salt cure / recover. curse edgequake doesnt make sense on it, and its main move that gets damage and is good is salt cure. bulky support sets def shouldnt have edge either and always have salt cure bc its chip dmg is reliable af.
- hatterene should have a cm set with cm / dkiss / psyshock / mystical fire / nuzzle. and the wallbreaker set should have an option for healing wish asw.
- theres a chance tatsugiri has np / hydro / surf on the same set, idk if its feasible to make it so neither appear on the same set, and if it isnt one should be removed.
- kingambit should have tera fly added to its set / other support teras. fly allows it to avoid fighting / ground moves which help it once setup.
- cyclizars shift gear set is bad and should be deleted (scarf is good). u just wanna be spamming shed tail, and its not strong enough to get anything done even w/ a +1 attack boost.
- pawmot should be tera elec on both sets. double shock can be reloaded w/ it and its a better stab for it to spam.
- barraskewda should also have tera water as a possibility bc stronger jets / stabs.
- zarude is way 2 high of a level and should be brought down to the level of ou / uu mons. rn its power level is 2 high, and it makes no sense for it to be the same level as stuff like dachsbun.
- hisuian liligant should have wide lens on hustle sets 2 hit moves

idk if this is enough reasoning so i can expand if needed
 

pokeblade101

is a Community Contributor
RBTT Champion
- garganacls bulky setup set should be: iron defense / body press / salt cure / recover. curse edgequake doesnt make sense on it, and its main move that gets damage and is good is salt cure. bulky support sets def shouldnt have edge either and always have salt cure bc its chip dmg is reliable af.
This was already suggested and again, this is not OU, this is Rands and that set is not as effective in rands as it would seem. Having a strong stab move that isnt blocked by ghost is important as Garganacl is not nearly as bulky as it is in tiers therefore it runs out of Recovery faster.

- hatterene should have a cm set with cm / dkiss / psyshock / mystical fire / nuzzle. and the wallbreaker set should have an option for healing wish asw.
I wouldn't mind an AV set for Hatterene by adding Nuzzle but CM DKiss was shown to be not very effective in gen 8 so i'm skeptical on that because again pokemon in rands are not as bulky in tiers so youre taking a lot more damage without investment and cannot set up. I also don't like the idea of a weak fairy coverage move.

- theres a chance tatsugiri has np / hydro / surf on the same set, idk if its feasible to make it so neither appear on the same set, and if it isnt one should be removed.
That occurs when you already have removal on your team. You can only have one form of hazard removal per team. Since Surf/Hydro Pump would be the only other move Tatsugiri has then it gets that.

- cyclizars shift gear set is bad and should be deleted (scarf is good). u just wanna be spamming shed tail, and its not strong enough to get anything done even w/ a +1 attack boost.
Lol I agree tbh.

- pawmot should be tera elec on both sets. double shock can be reloaded w/ it and its a better stab for it to spam.
It only has tera electric on the double shock set. Why Electric on the Iron Fist set?

- zarude is way 2 high of a level and should be brought down to the level of ou / uu mons. rn its power level is 2 high, and it makes no sense for it to be the same level as stuff like dachsbun.
oh, we know.

If I left out something, I agree with it.
 

Dorron

BLU LOBSTAH
is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
also small nitpick but it could be helpful to have in the op the people who decide on the sets and all that shit so we know when a response is "official" rather than somebody who is informed but not part of the "council" so we can keep on discussing a topic we might consider relevant
 

bobomania

every moment every day beyond words
is a Pre-Contributor
I think the AV+Inti Luxray set should be removed. It absolutely lacks the raw power Guts sets have and it doesn't even have decent coverage for Grass and Ground types, their biggest counters. Ice Fang is extremely weak and half of the times it hits super effectively it is better to simply switch out and let other teammate deal with the opponent. And in case we are keeping the set, please make it always have Volt Switch. The Guts set is overall better and now more than ever with Tera.

If it is possible, consider removing White Herb mons as leads too. I can't count the number of times my lead was a Shell Smash user that had its Herb consumed due to an opposing Intimidate.
Preventing White Herb on lead prevents Shell Smashers from leading, which is something too valuable to lose. We can see about getting Volt Switch to be on more Luxray sets, though.
 

Celever

the bear becomes the ringleader
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
also small nitpick but it could be helpful to have in the op the people who decide on the sets and all that shit so we know when a response is "official" rather than somebody who is informed but not part of the "council" so we can keep on discussing a topic we might consider relevant
There isn't really a council separate from rands auth at large. Some rands auth are more involved in set making than others, but technically all rands auth have equal influence.

As far as this thread is concerned I think it's generally clear when a response is from someone speaking as an individual (such as Blade's above yours) or when it's something that's been discussed as a group (like in that situation I straight up say "we discussed this and...". Aside from Cake, who will generally be providing a final say, auth use the thread as a discussion platform as individuals most of the time. The other main exception is when taking a more formal approach such as explaining set generation etc..

Generally the actual "official" response is when sets are either changed or not changed. Generally speaking a suggested change in the thread will be implemented in the next patch (recorded in the changelog pin), assuming there it's been at least 24ish hours since the suggestion.
 
I have a suggestion about Basculin's Tera typing.

For those unaware, Adaptability only increases the STAB boost to a mon's current typing. This means that :
  • Pre-Tera, Basculin gets a 2x BP boost to Water moves thanks to its Water typing and Adaptability, increase the effective base power of its Wave Crash from 120 to 240.
  • If Basculin Teras to Water, this boost is further increased to x2.25, further increasing the BP of Wave Crash to 270.
  • If Basculin Teras to a different type however, even though it retains the STAB boost from its original typing, Adaptability only applies to its new type, dropping Wave Crash's BP to "only" 180.
    • In turn, Adaptability applying to its new typing means it could increase its Tera Blast BP to 160, or its Head Smash to a whopping 300.

With that out of the way, Basculin's only Tera type in randbats seems to be Water. While increasing Wave Crash's damage is nice, I think that Basc could benefit from more versatility, instead of "winmore"-ing its Wave Crash, which already deals immense damage. Some suggestions :
  • Dragon and Grass Teras both give Basculin resistances to Grass and Water, its two only weaknesses, which can avoid a crucial revenge kill from Regieleki, Electrode, Meowscarada, or various Scarfers, and KO them with Wave Crash, Tera Blast, or Head Smash.
    • Dragon Tera Blast gives Basculin a great option to fight Dragons, particularly Koraidon, which resists both Wave Crash (+ sunlight) and Head Smash. Tatsurigi is also a great target for a Dragon Tera Blast due to its Water immunity and since it is not OHKO'd by Head Smash (barely, admitedly, but Head Smash's low accuracy + an OHKO that is only guaranteed with prior damage makes Dragon Tera much more attractive)
    • Grass Tera Blast gives Basculin a reliable way to defeat Gastrodon and Quagsire, which may be immune to Water moves, resist Head Smash, and take low damage from Psychic Fangs and Crunch.
    • Some calcs that assume Basc has Tera'd to Dragon, which show that Wave Crash still deals immense damage without its Adaptability Boost :
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Wave Crash vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Regieleki: 317-374 (122.3 - 144.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Wave Crash vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Electrode: 231-273 (92.7 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Tera Blast vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Meowscarada: 170-201 (67.1 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Tera Blast vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Baxcalibur: 276-328 (87.6 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Tera Blast vs. Lvl 72 84 HP / 84 Def Koraidon: 256-304 (97.3 - 115.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
  • Another option is Tera Rock. While not bringing any valuable defensive utilty to Basculin, it allows it to circumvent Water-resistant mons like the aforementioned Grass- and Dragon-types
    • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Rock Basculin Head Smash vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Meowscarada: 317-373 (125.2 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Rock Basculin Head Smash vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Tatsugiri: 343-404 (139.4 - 164.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

All things considered, my pick would be Dragon > Grass > Rock > Water, but all four could be added to its Tera pool. I'm not sure Tera Water grants Basc any additional kills that it wouldn't already have access to, and in general seems like a bit of a waste of one's Tera button, but I maybe someone can correct me.
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

moist and crusty
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Random Battle Lead
I have a suggestion about Basculin's Tera typing.

For those unaware, Adaptability only increases the STAB boost to a mon's current typing. This means that :
  • Pre-Tera, Basculin gets a 2x BP boost to Water moves thanks to its Water typing and Adaptability, increase the effective base power of its Wave Crash from 120 to 240.
  • If Basculin Teras to Water, this boost is further increased to x2.25, further increasing the BP of Wave Crash to 270.
  • If Basculin Teras to a different type however, even though it retains the STAB boost from its original typing, Adaptability only applies to its new type, dropping Wave Crash's BP to "only" 180.
    • In turn, Adaptability applying to its new typing means it could increase its Tera Blast BP to 160, or its Head Smash to a whopping 300.

With that out of the way, Basculin's only Tera type in randbats seems to be Water. While increasing Wave Crash's damage is nice, I think that Basc could benefit from more versatility, instead of "winmore"-ing its Wave Crash, which already deals immense damage. Some suggestions :
  • Dragon and Grass Teras both give Basculin resistances to Grass and Water, its two only weaknesses, which can avoid a crucial revenge kill from Regieleki, Electrode, Meowscarada, or various Scarfers, and KO them with Wave Crash, Tera Blast, or Head Smash.
    • Dragon Tera Blast gives Basculin a great option to fight Dragons, particularly Koraidon, which resists both Wave Crash (+ sunlight) and Head Smash. Tatsurigi is also a great target for a Dragon Tera Blast due to its Water immunity and since it is not OHKO'd by Head Smash (barely, admitedly, but Head Smash's low accuracy + an OHKO that is only guaranteed with prior damage makes Dragon Tera much more attractive)
    • Grass Tera Blast gives Basculin a reliable way to defeat Gastrodon and Quagsire, which may be immune to Water moves, resist Head Smash, and take low damage from Psychic Fangs and Crunch.
    • Some calcs that assume Basc has Tera'd to Dragon, which show that Wave Crash still deals immense damage without its Adaptability Boost :
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Wave Crash vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Regieleki: 317-374 (122.3 - 144.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Wave Crash vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Electrode: 231-273 (92.7 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Tera Blast vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Meowscarada: 170-201 (67.1 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Tera Blast vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Baxcalibur: 276-328 (87.6 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
      • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Dragon Basculin Tera Blast vs. Lvl 72 84 HP / 84 Def Koraidon: 256-304 (97.3 - 115.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
  • Another option is Tera Rock. While not bringing any valuable defensive utilty to Basculin, it allows it to circumvent Water-resistant mons like the aforementioned Grass- and Dragon-types
    • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Rock Basculin Head Smash vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Meowscarada: 317-373 (125.2 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • Lvl 86 84 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Rock Basculin Head Smash vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Tatsugiri: 343-404 (139.4 - 164.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

All things considered, my pick would be Dragon > Grass > Rock > Water, but all four could be added to its Tera pool. I'm not sure Tera Water grants Basc any additional kills that it wouldn't already have access to, and in general seems like a bit of a waste of one's Tera button, but I maybe someone can correct me.
We're not adding Tera Blast to basculin. Basculin's job is to click water move very hard until it dies. Adding literally any tera other than Water makes that invalid. Head Smash is not a move you want to make your sole Adaptability STAB, either.

We are denying this suggestion.
 
We're not adding Tera Blast to basculin. Basculin's job is to click water move very hard until it dies. Adding literally any tera other than Water makes that invalid. Head Smash is not a move you want to make your sole Adaptability STAB, either.

We are denying this suggestion.
Being able to Tera to survive a revenge kill from an electric type can net an extra kill while still clicking the water move button. The concern I'm bringing up is that Tera water doesn't really add much to Basculin's power. A defensive Tera to survive a revenge kill attempt and hit back with a huge Wave Crash is much more valuable than a marginal increase to damage that almost always overkills.

Edit : this is obviously anecdotal, but I just had a game were I was getting smashed by an Iron Bundle, and if I could've Tera'd my Basculin to Rock, I could've survived his Freeze Dry, OHKO'd, and probably have a little leftover health to fire a second choice-band + adaptability boosted Head Smash.
Even in your above post where you say that Basc's job is to press the big Wave Crash button, Tera Rock to instead press the big Head Smash button is just as valid.
 
Last edited:
Hey y’all, I’ve been laddering for a bit now and after running into it a couple times I really feel moody scovillian should be toned down a bit level wise, it’s super overwhelming even just after a couple turns, and every time I have it I believe I’ve always won the game with it. Just a suggestion, would love to hear if y’all have a different opinion :)
 

bobomania

every moment every day beyond words
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey y’all, I’ve been laddering for a bit now and after running into it a couple times I really feel moody scovillian should be toned down a bit level wise, it’s super overwhelming even just after a couple turns, and every time I have it I believe I’ve always won the game with it. Just a suggestion, would love to hear if y’all have a different opinion :)
Since Gen 9 Randbats levels are based on the winrates of individual mons, this will happen naturally over the course of a few months. Said level adjustments should be happening soon enough, too.
 
Thank you to those in charge of editing sets!

Some things I think should be changed, which I think are fairly widespread opinions:

- Iron Bundle should always have Freeze Dry + Hydro Pump, with the rest being optional
- Klefki should always have Spikes
- Dragonite should sometimes get Extreme Speed (tera normal)
- Overall things that learn spin should get spin, as most games are very hazard-centric (Cyclizar, Toedscruel, etc)
 

bobomania

every moment every day beyond words
is a Pre-Contributor
Thank you to those in charge of editing sets!

Some things I think should be changed, which I think are fairly widespread opinions:

- Iron Bundle should always have Freeze Dry + Hydro Pump, with the rest being optional
- Klefki should always have Spikes
- Dragonite should sometimes get Extreme Speed (tera normal)
- Overall things that learn spin should get spin, as most games are very hazard-centric (Cyclizar, Toedscruel, etc)
50% of all dragonites are already Tera Normal with Extreme Speed. The rest of these may not be feasible with how set generation works, but I agree on Klefki.
 
I wouldn't mind an AV set for Hatterene by adding Nuzzle but CM DKiss was shown to be not very effective in gen 8 so i'm skeptical on that because again pokemon in rands are not as bulky in tiers so youre taking a lot more damage without investment and cannot set up. I also don't like the idea of a weak fairy coverage move.
I do not have fond memories of getting DK Hatterene when it was tried, so I full agree. It doesn't have the Comfey benefit of Triage allowing it to bypass it's super slow speed (not that comfey was slow obviously).

But I really love your nuzzle suggestion. I know para is annoying and already rampant, but without dynamax to counter a speedy setup sweeper, it can be extremely valuable. I'd be down for that to be tested.

Being able to Tera to survive a revenge kill from an electric type can net an extra kill while still clicking the water move button. The concern I'm bringing up is that Tera water doesn't really add much to Basculin's power. A defensive Tera to survive a revenge kill attempt and hit back with a huge Wave Crash is much more valuable than a marginal increase to damage that almost always overkills.

Edit : this is obviously anecdotal, but I just had a game were I was getting smashed by an Iron Bundle, and if I could've Tera'd my Basculin to Rock, I could've survived his Freeze Dry, OHKO'd, and probably have a little leftover health to fire a second choice-band + adaptability boosted Head Smash.
Even in your above post where you say that Basc's job is to press the big Wave Crash button, Tera Rock to instead press the big Head Smash button is just as valid.
I think you presented a well thought argument, and definitely wouldn't mind Tera Rock Basculin to be a thing. But at the end of the day, I agree with Cake about having a 80% accuracy move being the sole adaptability move.

Wave Crash is just much more reliable a packs similar power on neutral hits. I also don't think, thanks to Head Smash's BP, that it needs the Tera + Adaptibility boost to be able to pick up KO's on Pokemon it would use it against. Rock is a slightly better offensive type for sure.

And while it (Tera rock) could allow it to resist some hits, overall, rock is simply a worse defensive typing than water. It really only removes the electric weakness (and freeze dry I guess) in exchange for weaknesses to the common ground and fighting types.

I'd stay statu quo with it for now. A lot of things will likely change and be reassessed when DLC releases; if there's a ton of new water resists + a lot of rock weaknesses (higher proportion than now that is), I guess this could be re-explored.
 
Got a punching glove Urshifu-Rapid-Strike with Ice Spinner over Ice punch. Isn't ice punch better for freeze chance + more damage? Removing terrain is pretty niche and freezes can win games
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

moist and crusty
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Random Battle Lead
Got a punching glove Urshifu-Rapid-Strike with Ice Spinner over Ice punch. Isn't ice punch better for freeze chance + more damage? Removing terrain is pretty niche and freezes can win games
Giving it Ice Punch would
a) prevent Ice move from breaking through Protect on the Punching Glove set
b) also give it Ice Punch when it isn't running punching glove

this was discussed and ultimately rejected due to the presence of powerful Grass/Flying protect users.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Curse Dondozo should probably be removed, I know it is the luck of the draw to get some autowin matchups at times but every time I get it it is the easiest wincon ever and pretty much invalidates any team once special attackers are removed. Just way too easy to win with, RestTalk + 2 attacks on its own would be a fine set though.
 

Irpachuza

You didn't get this far by giving up, did you?
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Random Battle Lead
Please do not post:
- One-liners. This includes suggestions without any backup reasoning.
- Complaints of illegal Pokemon or sets.
- Requests to add the National Dex.
- Posts complaining about unfairness, demanding certain Pokemon should be "banned" from the format, or complaining about hax.
If a Pokemon is deemed too strong by monthly winrates, its level will be reduced. Pokemon will always aim to have their most optimised options to bring to the battle.
 
Curse Dondozo should probably be removed, I know it is the luck of the draw to get some autowin matchups at times but every time I get it it is the easiest wincon ever and pretty much invalidates any team once special attackers are removed. Just way too easy to win with, RestTalk + 2 attacks on its own would be a fine set though.
If the stats show that it's overpowered (high win rate), its level will be lowered accordingly. If it's lowered to the point of being bad, it will be removed and the level will be adjusted up.

It's also not undealable with unless as you say you have a very bad draw.
 

Peum

formerly Mandibuladel5555
I think Torkoal should have Tera Grass instead of Tera Dragon

- Grass resists Water and Ground, Dragon only resists Water
- Tera Grass gives stab to Solar Beam
- Gets immunity to powder moves
 

Tarrembeau

le moi est incommunicable
is a Community Contributor
I think Torkoal should have Tera Grass instead of Tera Dragon

- Grass resists Water and Ground, Dragon only resists Water
- Tera Grass gives stab to Solar Beam
- Gets immunity to powder moves
I also gives a weakness to every fire mons that want to abuse its sun, so I'm not too sure about it, and grass has more annoying weaknesses like flying or weakness to uturn
 

Peum

formerly Mandibuladel5555
I also gives a weakness to every fire mons that want to abuse its sun, so I'm not too sure about it, and grass has more annoying weaknesses like flying or weakness to uturn
If you are using Tera with Torkoal is to beat a Water, Ground or Rock anyways, the Stab Grass could help, also, you have to factor that if you decide to Tera Torkoal is
1- You are in an endgame
2- You have a Sun abuser on your team and wanna get rid of the Water type.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top