Scolipede [QC 3/3] [GP 0/1]


[OVERVIEW]
* Scolipede's niche in OU is primarily due to its high base speed and access to Speed Boost
* Difficult to revenge kill and can get pasts common defensive cores with Hydro Vortex and Sword Dance
*Thanks to Speed Boost and its Bug/Poison typing Scolipede is the premier Speed Boost passer in the tier.
* Can set up on common Defensive Pokemon such as Tapu Fini or Tangrowth.
* Gets worn down easily between its Stealth Rock weakness and its medicore bulk.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Megahorn
move 2: Poison Jab
move 3: Aqua Tail
move 4: Sword Dance
item: Waterium Z / Life Orb
ability: Speed Boost
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4HP

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
* Megahorn is a staple since it provides a powerful STAB move with acceptable accuracy.
* Poison Jab is a more reliable, albeit less powerful STAB attack which also hits Fairies for super effective damage.
* Aqua Tail can deal with some Fire and Ground Types like Landorus and Heratran who resist Megahorn.
* With Waterium Z Aqua Tail turns into Hydro Vortex and flat out OHKOs most of the bulkier Bug/Posion resists at +1/+2.
* Sword Dance boosts Scolipedes attack and makes it much harder to wall.


Set Details
========
* 252 EVs in Attack are required for offensive sets since Scolipede needs every bit of power it can get.
* Jolly nature with maximum speed investment allows you to to outrun the likes of Latios and Terrakion even before Speed Boosts kicks in.
* Waterium Z is the Item of choice since it allows Scolipede to blow past Landorus-T, Gliscor, Magearna, Magnezone and other defensive mons at +2.
*Life Orb can be used if your team is already using a Z-move attacker, although it wears Scolipede down over time and does not archieve the same KOs as Hydro Vortex.

Usage Tips
========
* Very solid for cleaning weakened teams due its speed and reasonable attack. Safe Scolipede for the later stages of the game where it has a chance to actually clean.
* Aims set up on some defensive mons like Tapu Fini and Ferrothorn without Gyro Ball or Choice locked mons like Tapu Bulu or Tapu Lele
* Use Waterium Z to blast past defensive mons like Landorus-T,Magnezone,Heatran and AV Magearna who resist your STAB attacks.
* Can be used as lure to remove troublesome defensive Pokemons via Hydo Vortex who are otherwise unfazed by its presencse.
*Some defensive checks require prior damage before you can hammer them with Hydro Vortex.
* Can be used to check some dangerous attackers by the virtue of its typing. Notable examples are Serperior, Tapu Bulu and Pheromosa.
*Can tank most priority attacks once if neccesary, even Mega-Pinsirs Quick attack wont OHKO you at 100%.


Team Options
========
* Pokemon that can dent or remove the likes of Skarmory, Celesteela,Toxapex and Rotom are good teammates.
* Magnezone can remove Scizor, Celesteela and Skarmory via Magnet Pull, Dugdrio can eliminate Toxapex, Magnezone and Magearna.
* Stealth Rock and Spikes setters like Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Greninja and Excadrill are incredible useful to wear down the enemy team.
* Rapid Spinners and Defog uses are also appreciated to keep SR and Spikes off the field. Again Excadrill, Latios, Tapu Fini and Skarmory are good hazard removers
* Sweepers or Cleaners that enjoy Landorus-T, Heatran or AV Magearna gone will appreciate Scolipedes ability to hammer them with Hydro Vortex.
* Tapu Finis Misty Terrain protects Scolipede from any Status move,giving it an easier time to set up.
* Tapu Leles Psychic Terrain neuters strong priority users which would otherwise threaten a weakened Scolipede.


[SET]
name: SubPass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Protect
move 4: Megahorn / Poison Jab / Earthquake
item: Black Sludge
ability: Speed Boost
nature: Jolly
evs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
* Baton Pass is the move this set revolves around, you want to pass at least a +2 Speed Boost and ideally a Sub to a teammate.
* Protect allows you to stall turns for Speed Boosts and Black Sludge recovery.
* Substitute compliments Protect for turn stalling and can be given to your pass target if you use it on a switch.
* Megaghorn and Poison Jab can be used to revenge kill certain threaths and just give you some offensive presence.
* Earthquake can suprise some checks that resist Bug and Poison, mainly Heatran and Magnezone

Set Details
========
* Black Sludges passive recovery gives your more longevity and allows you to come in or use Substitute more often.
* Jolly nature with 44 Spe EVs outspeeds max Speed Pheromosa after one Speed Boost.
* Alternatively, 28 Spe EVs are enough to outspeed Mega Alakazam after one Speed Boost if you think that outspeeding Pheromosa is not very important.
* Remaining EVs are pumped into HP an Defense to bolster its better physical bulk and make it more resilent to priority.

Usage Tips
========
* Use Scolipede as a Lead to start a Baton Pass chain right away.
* This set can also use its typing and decent bulk to switch into resisted hits.
* Once Scolipede is switched in stall for at least +2 Speed boost via Substitute and Protect.
* Use Baton Pass to switch into a teammate that handles the opposing Pokemon well and has the best chances to sweep.
* Can revenge kill weakened sweepers or nail some of its usual switch-ins depending on your attacking move.

Team Options
========

* Multiple bulky or powerful attackers are advised since this set is designed to allow them to sweep. Mega Metagross, Kryuem-B,Manaphy,Thundurus-T ,Mega Garchomp and Hoopa-U are good choices.
*Pokemon that can create setup opportunities via Encore or Memento are welcome. Whimsicott is a great example here since it has access to Prankster and both Encore and Memento.
* Your recipients should complement each others typing so you have an easier time passing your speed boosts.
* Espeon is also helpful since it deals with Phazers and Haze user very well via Magic Bounce and can continue the BP chain.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]


Other Options
=============
* If you opt for Life Orb on the offensive set Earthquake can be used over Aqua Tail to deal with Magnezone,Toxapex and Magearna.
* Protect can also be used over Sword Dance on the Life Orb variants which gives you the ability to safely accumulate Speed Boost and allows Scolipede to revenge kill the majority of Scarfers.
* A Sash Lead with Spikes,Toxic Spikes,Endeavor and Megahorn could do well for a suicide set, using its blistering speed to get multiple layers of hazard of and cripples the enemy lead with Endeavor after is has been brought down to 1 HP. However, with the presence of Magic Bounce users and Defog it can be a wasted teamslot in some cases.
*Sword Dance cannot be used on Baton Pass sets since other stat boosting moves are not allowed on with Baton Pass.

Checks and Counters
===================
* **Physically Defensive Pokemon**: The likes of Skarmory, Toxapex and Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball have no trouble switching into Scolipedes STAB moves and can cripple it in return. They also live a +2 Hydro Vortex in a worst case scenario. Celesteela can also use Protect to exploit the one-time use nature of Hydro Vortex. If Scolipede uses its Z-move prematurely against another target, Ground types like Landours-T,Gliscor and Hippowdon will also be able to deal with it.

* **Priority Users**: Mega Pinsir can OHKO Scolipede with Quick Attack after one round of Stealth Rock, but i does not want to switch in. Mega Scizor can Ash-Greninja can also pick up a weakened Scolipede.

* **Status**: Burn and Sleep will practically neuter the Offensive set and Paralysis will also cripple it to some extend. Note that Scolipede can still set up on passive mons after a burn and paralysis effect on speed is somewhat less effective thanks to Speed Boost.

* **Phazers**: Skarmory, Hippowdon and Suicune are more than capable to take hits from the BP set and can neuter the chain thanks to their access to Whirlwind or Roar. Also Haze users like Toxapex and Mantine can reset any stat boosts accumulated.

* **Taunt users**: Thundurus and Sableye can taunt the BP set thanks to their priority on status moves and prevent it from doing anything.
 
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Protect shouldn't be slashed with anything, it's necessary. Not being able to revenge scarfers like Tapu Lele or boosted stuff like Z-Dance Manaphy is a huge waste of its potential.
 
Sub/Pass should definitly get a written out set. Dont get me wrong offensive is pretty solid but its main niche is the frustrating-to-play-against Sub-Protect spam then pass set. It alone forces major preparation because you are going to encounter it on the ladder and you are going to lose to it If unprepared.

That being said suicide lead is pretty unique and decent.
 
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A full Baton Pass set definitely deserves to be in there. To be fair, with how much success it had last gen, and considering how many good new partners it got in gen7, it should propably even be the first/main set, over the offensive one that no one really uses :P

Scolipede @ Black Sludge (F)
Speed Boost
248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe
Bold
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Substitute
- Attract / Poison Jab / Megahorn

Female to cheese extra turns with Attract, Sub, Protect and BP are obvious, EVs are used to tank + outspeed many threats. Good teammates are Espeon (mandatory), Manaphy, Xurkitree, Buzzwole, M-Hera (is that legal atm?), Garchomp, Thundurus, etc.

Can go into more detail if you need help with it, just let me know!
 
hi, i know this is a WIP, but the main set really should be

name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Protect
move 4: Megahorn
item: Black Sludge
ability: Speed Boost
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 Spe

scolipede's only decent niche in OU is passing speed. an offensive set can either be listed below the baton pass set or relegated to OO—up to you.

again, main set has to be baton pass.

edit: speed EVs put you just above timid mega-zam at +1, with the rest invested in bulk
 

Martin

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hi, i know this is a WIP, but the main set really should be

name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Protect
move 4: Megahorn
item: Black Sludge
ability: Speed Boost
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 Spe

scolipede's only decent niche in OU is passing speed. an offensive set can either be listed below the baton pass set or relegated to OO—up to you.

again, main set has to be baton pass.

edit: speed EVs put you just above timid mega-zam at +1, with the rest invested in bulk
That EV spread is inefficient; 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 Spe jolly hits the same benchmark while netting an extra 2 points in defense

upload_2016-12-9_9-33-50.png
 
Ive added the Baton Pass set daddy's kisses posted with Martin EVs changes, its the main set now. I gonna flesh out other option and checks and counters sections so this can move to QC.
Thanks for the input guys.
 
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Attract should be added as a Slash for the BP set, or AT LEAST in the OO. It was a major option in Gen6, and there's no real reason why it shouldn't be anymore
 
Im not 100% sold on Attract since it requires the right gender (Showdown randomizes the gender by default IIRC) on the opposing pokemon and a good chunk of the metagame is genderless anyways.Even if it lands its basically a 50/50 gamble.

But then again Megahorn and Poison Jab are also very situational on a 0 Atk EV set so im slashing it after those moves.
 
Im not 100% sold on Attract since it requires the right gender (Showdown randomizes the gender by default IIRC) on the opposing pokemon and a good chunk of the metagame is genderless anyways.Even if it lands its basically a 50/50 gamble.

But then again Megahorn and Poison Jab are also very situational on a 0 Atk EV set so im slashing it after those moves.
Many of the high tier pokemon are auto-male, like Lando-T, Latios, etc., that's why running that on a female Scolipede was comparably common. And like you said, the attack moves don't really do much on this set, apart from not making it taunt bait. I guess a late slash should do though, yeah
 
Baton Pass clause should be mentioned somewhere, because most people will be wondering why Swords Dance + Speed Boost + Baton Pass isn't a set.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Attract is really bad and is a gimmick at best; STABs are p. much always better than it so that you can pose as more than just a sitting duck vs. certain Pokemon (while also allowing you to revenge kill weakened Pokemon with Scolipede--a trait which has constantly come in useful for me in the past), and Attract's usefulness is entirely dependent on both a) the target being male (50% vs. the vast majority of un-forced males, which makes up p. much 90% of the available selection) and b) avoiding the 50% chance that they aren't immobilised on the first turn.
 

PK Gaming

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SubPass
  • Attract is definitely too unreliable to be a main slash; OO material.
  • I'd slash Earthquake instead, since coverage on Ground-type weaks is nice.
  • Why stop at Mega Alakazam? With 44 Speed, you can outrun Pheromosa at +1.
Multiple bulky or powerful attackers are advised since this set is designed to allow them to sweep.Mega Heracross and Metagross,Tapu Bulu,Guzzlord, Kryuem-B,Manaphy and Garchomp are common choices.
Mega Heracross is not usable and Guzzlord isn't common in OU. There are better Pokemon that can also be mentioned here; Swords Dance Landorus-T and Necrozma, Xurkitree.
 
SubPass
  • Attract is definitely too unreliable to be a main slash; OO material.
  • I'd slash Earthquake instead, since coverage on Ground-type weaks is nice.
  • Why stop at Mega Alakazam? With 44 Speed, you can outrun Pheromosa at +1.

Mega Heracross is not usable and Guzzlord isn't common in OU. There are better Pokemon that can also be mentioned here; Swords Dance Landorus-T and Necrozma, Xurkitree.
Attract had amlost 45% usage in Gen6 at the time of OTL, just saying. I don't think something that popular can be that easily shoved off as niche/OO. Also people rely on a lot more 50/50s than just that rofl... But hey, idgaf, it's not my thread, if people think it should be OO, go for it.

To add to the good gen7 teammates: Buzzwole (makes for a reasonable M-Hera replacement), Xurkitree, Stored Power Espeon, SD Alowak, Manaphy, Hoopa, etc.
 

PK Gaming

Persona 5
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Attract had amlost 45% usage in Gen6 at the time of OTL, just saying. I don't think something that popular can be that easily shoved off as niche/OO. Also people rely on a lot more 50/50s than just that rofl... But hey, idgaf, it's not my thread, if people think it should be OO, go for it.

To add to the good gen7 teammates: Buzzwole (makes for a reasonable M-Hera replacement), Xurkitree, Stored Power Espeon, SD Alowak, Manaphy, Hoopa, etc.
Oh yeah?

A dark, bitter part of me realizes how valuable "luck" can be on a Pokemon as scummy as this, so I concede it to being better than OO material. The metagame has changed a lot since Gen VI so I don't think we can lean on it too badly, but it couldn't hurt to mention Attract in Set Comments. If luck is on your side you can really screw over your opponent...
 
Oh yeah?

A dark, bitter part of me realizes how valuable "luck" can be on a Pokemon as scummy as this, so I concede it to being better than OO material. The metagame has changed a lot since Gen VI so I don't think we can lean on it too badly, but it couldn't hurt to mention Attract in Set Comments. If luck is on your side you can really screw over your opponent...


Don't get me wrong, I don't like this RNG moves just one little bit either x) And yeah, I agree that with the metagame changes it might not be as "good" as it was in gen6. Just like I said, with as much usage as it had, I don't know if it shouldn't AT LEAST be mentioned in the set details
 

Martin

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is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
It could have 0% or 100% usage, but it doesn't change the fact that Attract fucking sucks. The only reason why Attract was used as much as it was last gen was because everyone just stole the team which ran it, and that team was actively made better by replacing Attract. "The set is already scummy so I might as well make it more scummy" is a really awful argument considering that semi-consistent+scummy is way way way way way better than inconsistent+slightly more scummy, and whether it is being used by Zardman999 at 1100 or an OLT playoffs qualifier doesn't change the fact that it is awful; analyses are meant to paint a picture of what is the best way to use a Pokemon, and by advertising a really shitty variant as on-par with the actually viable options or even above the other shitty options in OO is misleading af.

This move is really bad and shouldn't be anywhere higher than OO.
 
SubPass
  • Attract is definitely too unreliable to be a main slash; OO material.
  • I'd slash Earthquake instead, since coverage on Ground-type weaks is nice.
  • Why stop at Mega Alakazam? With 44 Speed, you can outrun Pheromosa at +1.

Mega Heracross is not usable and Guzzlord isn't common in OU. There are better Pokemon that can also be mentioned here; Swords Dance Landorus-T and Necrozma, Xurkitree.
Im always mixing up Guzzlord and Xurkitree and i didnt knew that Mega Hera was unavailable in S/M. My bad.
Ive added some BP teammates you and NVT_Sart mentioned.
Im not really sure if its worth to outspeed Pheromosa at +1 since only Life Orb Ice Beam has a slim chance to 2HKO Scolipede.And most of the time its using U-Turn or HJK,depending on your team.
It makes Scolipede an really solid Pheromosa check though so im mentioning it in Set details.Its in the main set now.
Attract is now in OO and Eartquake takes the last slash.

Added some stuff under Usage Tips on both sets and changed some stuff here and there.

Baton Pass clause should be mentioned somewhere, because most people will be wondering why Swords Dance + Speed Boost + Baton Pass isn't a set.
This is now under the moves section,thanks.
 
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Eh this is quite nitpicky but,

Jolly nature with maximum speed investment allows you to to outrun Timid Thundurus even before Speed Boosts kicks in.

If you go jolly you more notably beat lati@s and modest mzam before speed boost, who often assume you're ada, whereas you can't get an ohko on thundurus (unless rock slide) and thus will get beat by it.
 

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