Gen 1 Seaking (Tradebacks OU Mini) [QC 2/2] [GP 1/1]

[Plague von Karma]

With Tradebacks OU C&C open, I'm gonna get some of the grunt work done. Paging Enigami for the Tradebacks OU Seaking knowledge, I remember him being quite into this little bugger.

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[OVERVIEW]

With the addition of Swords Dance into its movepool, Seaking manages to function as a competent setup sweeper. With STAB Surf as an added bonus, it also blasts through common Hyper Beam switch-ins, such as Rhydon. Agility distinguishes Seaking from its competing Swords Dance users, as, even when paralyzed, it still poses a threat to sweep if the opposing team has been damaged. Once set up, Seaking can be a difficult Pokemon to stop, KOing frailer Pokemon such as Persian and Jolteon from over 75% HP with Hyper Beam. Seaking is decently sturdy as well, surviving two hits from Starmie's Thunderbolt and Alakazam's Thunder Punch a significant majority of the time, giving it more opportunities to set up than Kingler.

However, Seaking has to use both Swords Dance and Agility to pose any threat to the opposition. With only Surf and a single physical attack in its attacking moveset due to this—most likely Hyper Beam or the middling Double-Edge—Seaking is not surpassingly rewarding either, struggling to break through bulky Pokemon like Reflect Chansey. It's also completely incapable of breaking through the common Gengar and is struck with Thunderbolt in return; the improved coverage of staples like Thunder Punch for Alakazam and Hypno does not help its case either. Seaking is rarely seen in Tradebacks OU by account of its committal nature and unexceptional reward, normally finding itself competing with Kingler, which, while lacking Agility, has far better damage output for the effort put in.

[SET]
name: Double Dance
move 1: Hyper Beam
move 2: Surf
move 3: Agility
move 4: Swords Dance

[SET COMMENTS]

Swords Dance raises Seaking's Attack to acceptable levels, letting Hyper Beam land guaranteed OHKOs against Jynx and Alakazam, while Agility allows it to outrun the unboosted metagame and ignore the Speed drop from paralysis. A +2 Hyper Beam can also KO Pokemon such as Persian, Rapidash, Chansey, Jolteon, and Hypno if around 20% damage has been dealt prior. At +4, Seaking can OHKO Chansey, Hypno, Starmie, and even Tauros a third of the time. Surf covers Rock-types such as Rhydon, as well as dealing around 25% to Gengar, while also serving as an attack without a drawback.

Seaking's movepool is barren but does have other options worth exploring; generally, it should always use a Double Dance set, or it's outclassed by Pokemon like Kingler. Blizzard is a plausible alternative to Surf for the freeze chance and 3HKOing Exeggutor and Zapdos, but the damage is otherwise unimpressive and it fails to OHKO Rhydon. Double-Edge, while having less drawback than Hyper Beam, is weak enough to largely diminish Seaking's threat level once set up. Hydro Pump may seem enticing, but it isn't compatible with the event-only Swords Dance, defeating its purpose.

Seaking should commit to boosting only when it is possible to sweep. +4 Attack is needed to OHKO most Pokemon in the tier, and +2 Speed is needed to avoid being revenge killed by faster unparalyzed Pokemon. This amount of setup is daunting, but achievable. Seaking's bulk can withstand two hits from almost everything besides Razor Leaf or very strong Thunderbolts. Taking paralysis is also normally inconsequential in the process; thanks to its setup-heavy nature, Seaking is efficient as reapplying foes' Speed drops from paralysis if an opposing team has been riddled with it. Once Gengar, Electric-types, and Razor Leaf users are eliminated or confirmed to be absent, and extra-bulky Pokemon like Snorlax have taken a little damage, a single free turn can be all the opening Seaking needs to complete the three turns of setup needed to sweep. Against slower teams, Swords Dance can be all that's necessary to break through slower, bulkier Pokemon in Hypno, Chansey, and non-Reflect Snorlax variants. To achieve optimal conditions for a sweep, Seaking should be paired with consistent sleepers such as Jynx and Exeggutor, and Reflect Snorlax to check opposing Snorlax. Seaking is overwhelmed by Gengar, Zapdos, Jolteon, and Electabuzz, so Jolteon can be a helpful partner to safely switch into their attacks, while Seaking in turn can check Ground-types like Rhydon in a pinch for Jolteon. Rhydon, Chansey, and Alakazam can also check these Pokemon by comfortably switching into Thunderbolt, though, depending on the coverage of those Seaking checks, these partners might struggle to consistently switch in.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[May, 236353]]
- Quality checked by: [[Enigami, 233818], [Torchic, 43049]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]

 

[Enigami]

Seaking's Special bulk is undersold here, and should be directly mentioned in the comparison between it and Kingler in the Overview section. Special bulk is the other major reason you would use Seaking over Kingler besides Agility. Kingler is 2HKO'd by powerful Special attackers such as Alakazam and Starmie, and OHKO'd by STAB Thunderbolts. Seaking is 3HKO'd by Alakazam and Starmie and 2HKO'd by STAB Thunderbolts (even from Zapdos). This can allow Seaking to commit to a setup sweep in a less desirable game state than Kingler. For example, with a single free turn and 'neutral luck', Seaking can set up to +4 Attack / +2 Speed as long as the opponent doesn't have a healthy Electric to threaten a reliable 2HKO with. At +4 Attack /+2 Speed, it outspeeds everything and can OHKO most of the tier, with only ultra bulky Pokemon like Snorlax and Lapras avoiding the danger of being OHKO'd.

I haven't been able to play a lot with Seaking, but whenever I used it, the +4 Attack / +2 Speed end game was always what I was after. I was usually able to get that set up too, with Seaking nearly reverse sweeping lost games, and just barely kept getting unlucky HB misses.

Surf can be dropped to run both, but this leaves Seaking completely walled by Rhydon and forces its teammates to account for it.

Rhydon and Gengar.

Agility is theoretically droppable to run Blizzard or Double-Edge as third attacking moves, but without Agility Kingler ends up being the better Pokemon, possessing the all-important Body Slam and Crabhammer.

Might want to make it slightly more clear that Kingler that it's the lack of Agility that makes Kingler clearly better than Seaking.

There's more I want to go over but I ran out of time so I'll just post what I came up with for now.

 

[Plague von Karma]

There's more I want to go over but I ran out of time so I'll just post what I came up with for now.

Implemented this to the best of my ability, thank you!

 

[Enigami]

Seaking is not necessarily rewarding either, struggling to break through bulky Pokemon like Chansey.

I'd change this to either Reflect Chansey specifically or Snorlax. It shouldn't struggle that hard with non-Reflect Chansey, only a small amount of chip puts it into +2 HB range and even TBolt Chansey can be beaten 1v1 by Seaking setting up to +4, though it is sightly Chansey favored after 2HKO chance + crit rate.

[SET COMMENTS]

Swords Dance raises Seaking's Attack to acceptable levels, letting Hyper Beam land guaranteed OHKOs against Jynx and Alakazam, while Agility allows Seaking to outrun the unboosted metagame and ignore the Speed drop from paralysis. A +2 Hyper Beam is also capable of KOing Pokemon such as Persian, Rapidash, Chansey, Jolteon, and Hypno if around 20% damage has been dealt prior. Surf covers Normal resists such as Rhydon, as well as deal around 25% to Gengar, while also serving as an attack that doesn't have a drawback.

Maybe some +4 Hyper Beam calcs are warranted? Seaking has the bulk to get to +4, and should be what Seaking is aiming for anyway since otherwise you should probably just use Kingler.

Seaking should not commit to the Double Dance immediately unless it's clearly possible, as this often gives the opponent too many free turns to stop it. Once it starts, though, you should aim to set up to +4 Attack and +2 Speed, wherein Seaking OHKOes most of the tier while outrunning every Pokemon. To this end, Seaking can happily stomach a super effective hit or two if it means securing a sweep. However, oftentimes, Swords Dance will be all that's necessary for Seaking to break through slower, bulkier Pokemon like Hypno, Chansey, and non-Reflect Snorlax variants, and taking a Thunder Wave is normally inconsequential in the process; thanks to its set-up heavy nature, Seaking is efficient at reapplying the Speed drop from paralysis if a team has been riddled with it. To achieve optimal conditions for a Double Dance sweep, Seaking should be paired with consistent sleepers such as Jynx or Exeggutor, and Reflect Snorlax to check opposing Snorlax. Seaking cannot handle Gengar or Jolteon, so Rhydon can be a helpful partner to safely switch into Thunderbolt; however, Ice Punch Gengar variants can quash this strategy, so Alakazam or Chansey should be accounted for.

Seaking should commit to boosting only when it is possible for Seaking to sweep. +4 Attack is needed to OHKO most Pokemon in the tier, and +2 Speed is needed to avoid being revenge killed by faster unparalyzed Pokemon. This amount of setup is daunting, but achievable. Seaking's bulk can withstand 2 non-critical hits from almost everything besides Razor Leaf or very strong Thunderbolts. Once Gengar, Electric-types and Razor Leaf users are eliminated or confirmed to be absent, and extra bulky Pokemon like Snorlax have taken a little damage, a single free turn can be all the opening Seaking needs to complete the three turns of setup needed to sweep the opposing team. Against slower teams, Swords Dance can be all that's necessary for Seaking to break through slower, bulkier Pokemon Hypno, Chansey, and non-Reflect Snorlax variants. Taking paraylsis is normally inconsequential in the process; thanks to its set-up heavy nature, Seaking is efficient at reapplying the Speed drop from paralysis if a team has been riddled with it. To achieve optimal conditions for a Double Dance sweep, Seaking should be paired consistent sleepers such as Jynx or Exeggutor, and Reflect Snorlax to check opposing Snorlax. Seaking is overwhelmed by Gengar, Zapdos, Jolteon and Electabuzz, so Jolteon can be a helpful partner to safely switch into their attacks, while Seaking in turn can check Ground-types like Rhydon in a pinch for Jolteon. Rhydon, Chansey, and Alakazam can also check these Pokemon by comfortably switching into Thunderbolt, though depending on the coverage of those Seaking checks, these partners might struggle to consistently switch in.

Made a rewrite of the last paragraph to go into a bit more detail on how to achieve the +4 Attack/+2 Speed Seaking sweep. Also swapped the recommendation to use Rhydon as a partner to Jolteon, with Rhydon getting a later mention. Gengar and Electabuzz commonly run Ice Punch, which can be a big problem for something that should be switching into them reliably. Jolteon however checks Gengar and all the Electric-types quite well, making it a better primary candidate to be paired with Seaking. Feel free to take what you want or rewrite my rewrite.

 

[Plague von Karma]

the eni words

Implemented your suggestions; I straight up took your rewrite as I'd trust your stuff with my life tbh

 

[Enigami]

Seaking should be paired consistent sleepers such as Jynx or Exeggutor

"should be paired with consistent sleepers"
Somehow I accidentally deleted the "with" when I wrote up my version of the final paragraph, oops.

QC: 1/2

 

[Torchic]

Seaking gets Hydro Pump through tradebacks but Hydro Pump is incompatible with Swords Dance, it might be worth mentioning. Hydro Pump doesn't help against Gengar though and without Swords Dance Seaking can't do anything significantly.

You mentioned Surf can be dropped to run both Double-Edge and Hyper Beam, Scyther might be worth mentioning here. At this point Seaking is a weaker Scyther with Water/Ice resistances. That's why Seaking probably shouldn't drop coverage moves. And lack of Agility that makes Kingler better than Seaking.

To summarize the above, Seaking should always run Swords Dance + Agility + Coverage moves.

QC: 2/2

 

[Plague von Karma]

QC: 1/2

Sorted this!

Seaking gets Hydro Pump through tradebacks but Hydro Pump is incompatible with Swords Dance, it might be worth mentioning. Hydro Pump doesn't help against Gengar though and without Swords Dance Seaking can't do anything significantly.

You mentioned Surf can be dropped to run both Double-Edge and Hyper Beam, Scyther might be worth mentioning here. At this point Seaking is a weaker Scyther with Water/Ice resistances. That's why Seaking probably shouldn't drop coverage moves. And lack of Agility that makes Kingler better than Seaking.

To summarize the above, Seaking should always run Swords Dance + Agility + Coverage moves.

I ended up compressing the details instead by mandating Seaking runs SD+Agility, since the OO paragraph was becoming a little bloated. I added the Hydro Pump mention, I didn't actually know this!

 

[Plague von Karma]

Talked on Discord with Torchic, this is now off to GP!

 

[Adeleine]

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[OVERVIEW]

With the addition of Swords Dance into its movepool, Seaking manages to function as a competent Double Dance setup (bc you almost immediately mention agility and the term isn't technically coined, id rather have it in the set name and beyond, where the moves easily explain what it means) sweeper. With STAB Surf as an added bonus, it's also capable of blasting it also blasts through common Hyper Beam switch-ins, such as Rhydon. Agility distinguishes Seaking from its competing Swords Dance users, as it isn't completely incapacitated by paralysis and as, even when paralyzed, it still poses a threat to sweep if the opposing team has been damaged. Once set up, Seaking can be a difficult Pokemon to stop, KOing frailer Pokemon such as Persian and Jolteon from over 75% HP with Hyper Beam. Seaking is decently sturdy as well, surviving two hits from Starmie's Thunderbolt and Alakazam's Thunder Punch a significant majority of the time, giving it more opportunities to set up than Kingler.

However, Seaking is not a staple by any stretch of the imagination, as it has to use both Swords Dance and Agility to pose any threat to the opposition. With only Surf and a single physical attack in its offensive arsenal attacking moveset due to this—most likely Hyper Beam or the middling Double-Edge—Seaking is not necessarily surpassingly (not strictly required but "not necessarily rewarding", like possibly not rewarding -at all-, is pretty rough for a mon you posit as viable. tinker here or not as you wish) rewarding either, struggling to break through bulky Pokemon like Reflect Chansey. It's also completely incapable of breaking through the common Gengar and is struck with Thunderbolt in return; the improved coverage of staples like Thunder Punch for Alakazam and Hypno does not help its case either. Ergo, Seaking is rarely seen in Tradebacks OU by account of its committal nature, and normally finds itself competing with Kingler which, nature and unexceptional reward, normally finding itself competing with Kingler, which, (feel free to tinker "unexceptional if you dont love the tone) while lacking Agility, has far better damage output for the effort put in.

[SET]
name: Double Dance
move 1: Hyper Beam
move 2: Surf
move 3: Agility
move 4: Swords Dance

[SET COMMENTS]

Swords Dance raises Seaking's Attack to acceptable levels, letting Hyper Beam land guaranteed OHKOs against Jynx and Alakazam, while Agility allows Seaking it to outrun the unboosted metagame and ignore the Speed drop from paralysis. A +2 Hyper Beam is also capable of KOing can also KO Pokemon such as Persian, Rapidash, Chansey, Jolteon, and Hypno if around 20% damage has been dealt prior. At +4, Seaking can OHKO Chansey, Hypno, Starmie, and even Tauros a third of the time. Surf covers Normal resists Rock-types such as Rhydon, as well as dealing around 25% to Gengar, while also serving as an attack that doesn't have without a drawback.

Seaking's movepool is barren (RC) but does have other options worth exploring; generally, it should always use a Double Dance set, or it's outclassed by Pokemon like Kingler. Blizzard is a plausible alternative to Surf for the freeze chance and 3HKOes 3HKOing Exeggutor and Zapdos, but the damage is otherwise unimpressive and it fails to OHKO Rhydon. Double-Edge, while dealing recoil instead of demanding a recharge if it doesn't KO the foe, deals significantly less damage than Hyper Beam and largely diminishes having less drawback than Hyper Beam, is weak enough to largely diminish (another possible tone tinker area, eg "is weaker to the point of largely diminishing") Seaking's threat level once set up. Hydro Pump may seem enticing, but it isn't compatible with the event-only Swords Dance, meaning Seaking has to choose one or the other, defeating its purpose.

Seaking should commit to boosting only when it is possible for Seaking to sweep. +4 Attack is needed to OHKO most Pokemon in the tier, and +2 Speed is needed to avoid being revenge killed by faster unparalyzed Pokemon. This amount of setup is daunting, but achievable. Seaking's bulk can withstand 2 non-critical two hits from almost everything besides Razor Leaf or very strong Thunderbolts. Taking paralysis is also normally inconsequential in the process; thanks to its setup-heavy nature, Seaking is efficient as reapplying foes' Speed drops from paralysis if an opposing team has been riddled with it. Once Gengar, Electric-types, (AC) and Razor Leaf users are eliminated or confirmed to be absent, and extra-bulky (added hyphen) Pokemon like Snorlax have taken a little damage, a single free turn can be all the opening Seaking needs to complete the three turns of setup needed to sweep the opposing team. Against slower teams, Swords Dance can be all that's necessary for Seaking to break through slower, bulkier Pokemon in (or "like" etc) Hypno, Chansey, and non-Reflect Snorlax variants. Taking paraylsis is normally inconsequential in the process; thanks to its set-up heavy nature, Seaking is efficient at reapplying the Speed drop from paralysis if a team has been riddled with it. To achieve optimal conditions for a Double Dance sweep, Seaking should be paired with consistent sleepers such as Jynx or and (or did you mean "a consistent sleeper" + "or"?) Exeggutor, and Reflect Snorlax to check opposing Snorlax. Seaking is overwhelmed by Gengar, Zapdos, Jolteon, (AC) and Electabuzz, so Jolteon can be a helpful partner to safely switch into their attacks, while Seaking in turn can check Ground-types like Rhydon in a pinch for Jolteon. Rhydon, Chansey, and Alakazam can also check these Pokemon by comfortably switching into Thunderbolt, though, (AC) depending on the coverage of those Seaking checks, these partners might struggle to consistently switch in.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[May, 236353]]
- Quality checked by: [[Enigami, 233818], [Torchic, 43049]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]

1/1

 

[Plague von Karma]

1/1

Implemented, Amaranth pls upload and cry at the fact tbou's first analysis is for seaking

 

[Amaranth]

Uploaded!