Resource [Series 8/11] Sword/Shield BSS Viability Rankings

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
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Welcome to the Battle Stadium Singles Viability Rankings thread for the Series 8 Metagame. Here, we as a community will rank all viable Pokemon into tiers. Everyone is encouraged to post thoughts and opinions on Pokemon that are usable in the metagame and what rank they should fall under. The general idea of the thread is to rank Pokemon based on their effectiveness in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame, and posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes. Remember that this thread is maintained by players just like you so this list can never be truly objective, but these rankings strive to be as accurate as possible so every post helps.

The Viability Rankings will be updated appropriately as the metagame progresses or when new Pokemon become available, and we will take posts in this thread into consideration. There is no concrete schedule to when these updates will happen, but the VR Council has the final say on what gets moved in the ranking list. These users are all well informed players that gather the community's input to make final decisions on any individual Pokemon:

Battle Stadium Singles Series 8 Rankings
(In alphabetical order)


Restricted Pokemon Rankings

Top Tier

Reserved for the best restricted legendary Pokemon in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Eternatus
Kyogre
Zacian-Crowned


Great
Reserved for the restricted legendary Pokemon that are great in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Dusk Mane Necrozma
Ho-Oh
Yveltal


Good
Reserved for restricted legendary Pokemon that are good in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the format. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
Dialga

Kyurem-Black
Xerneas
Zekrom
Zygarde


Niche
Reserved for restricted legendary Pokemon that have a niche in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame. These Pokemon fill unique roles that are valuable on certain teams but have numerous flaws that hold them back. Pokemon in this rank may actually outperform those in higher ranks with specific team support but often depend too much on their teammates to function.
Groudon
Kyurem-White
Lugia
Lunala
Mewtwo
Palkia
Reshiram

Unranked
Restricted legendary Pokemon not otherwise included above
:calyrex: :cosmoem::cosmog: :giratina: :giratina-origin: :kyurem: :necrozma: :necrozma-dawn-wings::rayquaza::solgaleo: :zacian::zamazenta: :zamazenta-crowned::zygarde-10%:



Unrestricted Pokemon Rankings

Top Tier

Reserved for the best Pokemon in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Cinderace
Ferrothorn
Landorus (Therian)
Lapras
Mimikyu
Tyranitar
Urshifu (Single Strike)
Zapdos


Great
Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.
Celesteela
Chansey
Darmanitan (Galar)
Ditto
Dragapult
Heatran
Hippowdon
Porygon2
Quagsire
Regieleki
Rillaboom
Rhyperior
Tapu Fini
Urshifu (Rapid Strike)


Good
Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the format. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
Arcanine
Blaziken
Dragonite
Dracovish
Excadrill
Garchomp
Grimmsnarl
Kartana
Metagross
Nihilego
Pheromosa
Rotom (Heat)
Rotom (Wash)
Seismitoad
Swampert
Toxapex


Niche
Reserved for Pokemon that have a niche in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame. These Pokemon fill unique roles that are valuable on certain teams but have numerous flaws that hold them back. Pokemon in this rank may actually outperform those in higher ranks with specific team support but often depend too much on their teammates to function.
Aegislash
Avalugg
Azumarill
Blissey
Charizard
Clefable
Cloyster
Corviknight
Corsola (Galar)
Cresselia
Dracozolt
Gastrodon
Glastrier
Gothitelle
Incineroar
Klefki
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Marowak (Alola)
Moltres (Galar)
Naganadel
Ninetales (Alola)
Primarina
:shedinja: Shedinja
Skarmory
Snorlax
Sylveon
Tapu Koko
Thundurus
Thundurus (Therian)
Umbreon
Whimsicott


Rules
  • Post intelligently. Posts like "I think Pokemon X should be in this tier" without giving any reasoning is not helpful.
  • Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but avoid basing your entire argument around them.
  • No flaming, if you disagree with someone please be civil about it.
  • No one-liners or useless comments.
 
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Pretty accurate ranking all things considered. I personally consider Necrozma Dusk Mane to be a top tier restricted but that’s likely just personal bias.

Either way I’m just counting the days until legends are locked away again and I’ll be able to enjoy laddering once more :c
 
Well I'll try again on Eternatus after doing a bit more calcing on it. In addition to the trouble w/ Calyrex-Ice that I tried to mention, it has a poor match-up vs. the other Great and Top tier legends, bar a locked Kyogre though they can Dynamax to be unlocked. It's also bad vs. Dialga and Ho-Oh.

Vs. Yveltal: Yveltal can 2hko w/ Dark Pulse and it's common item, LO. To avoid their faster possible 2hko it may be able to kill through use of 1 DP and then Sucker Punch.

Vs. Zacian-C: 2hkod, and Zacian outspeeds if Jolly. Adamant will be 2hkod but can Ohko after rocks some of the time.

Vs. Kyogre: Ice Beam is a 2hko. Eternatus resists the other 2 main attacks of Kyogre but it can Dynamax to get Max Hailstorm.

Vs. Necrozma DM: Flamethrower activates WP and then EQ Ohkos. Alternatively, a weak Dynamax Cannon(resisted) into Flamethrower is not a 2hko and Necrozma-DM can set up 2 DDs before OHKOing.

Vs. Calyrex-S: Psyshock 2hkos.

Vs. Calyrex-Ice: Glacial Lance ohkos, 75% chance after 1 Cosmic Power so the odd CP Eternatus can't set up very well vs. it.

Vs. Dialga: Most run Roar of Time for dynamax power I'm guessing. This ohkos w/ Modest just fine, and Dialga takes a neutral hit ok and more so if it's the 2nd most common, AV.

Vs. Ho-oh: Ho-oh is specially bulky and gets EQ. Slightly more than half of them run EQ,.

Other than that I can tell Xerneas sets up on Eternatus despite the poison weakness. It's a prime target for Ditto and sometimes ohkod by Landog(or always by Max Quake.) So I think Eternatus should be Good or Great rank not top tier.
 

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
Well I'll try again on Eternatus after doing a bit more calcing on it. In addition to the trouble w/ Calyrex-Ice that I tried to mention, it has a poor match-up vs. the other Great and Top tier legends, bar a locked Kyogre though they can Dynamax to be unlocked. It's also bad vs. Dialga and Ho-Oh.

Vs. Yveltal: Yveltal can 2hko w/ Dark Pulse and it's common item, LO. To avoid their faster possible 2hko it may be able to kill through use of 1 DP and then Sucker Punch.

Vs. Zacian-C: 2hkod, and Zacian outspeeds if Jolly. Adamant will be 2hkod but can Ohko after rocks some of the time.

Vs. Kyogre: Ice Beam is a 2hko. Eternatus resists the other 2 main attacks of Kyogre but it can Dynamax to get Max Hailstorm.

Vs. Necrozma DM: Flamethrower activates WP and then EQ Ohkos. Alternatively, a weak Dynamax Cannon(resisted) into Flamethrower is not a 2hko and Necrozma-DM can set up 2 DDs before OHKOing.

Vs. Calyrex-S: Psyshock 2hkos.

Vs. Calyrex-Ice: Glacial Lance ohkos, 75% chance after 1 Cosmic Power so the odd CP Eternatus can't set up very well vs. it.

Vs. Dialga: Most run Roar of Time for dynamax power I'm guessing. This ohkos w/ Modest just fine, and Dialga takes a neutral hit ok and more so if it's the 2nd most common, AV.

Vs. Ho-oh: Ho-oh is specially bulky and gets EQ. Slightly more than half of them run EQ,.

Other than that I can tell Xerneas sets up on Eternatus despite the poison weakness. It's a prime target for Ditto and sometimes ohkod by Landog(or always by Max Quake.) So I think Eternatus should be Good or Great rank not top tier.
There are a few misleading statements here about Eternatus.

First off, this post clearly is under the impression Eternatus is supposed to carry the defensive load on its own, and that games typically play out in a 1 v 1 legend scenario. This is far from the case, especially when considering Eternatus. Eternatus is designed to status stall or hit as hard as possible when it comes in, and when it has one of the bad matchups that you mention, it pivots out into one of the many stall teammates it has. Eternatus is fantastic because it doesn't need to hard commit with Dynamax to be successful, so switching to a teammate has far less consequences than other legends, bar Zacian, who can also do hit and run really well.

1. Yveltal goes even with Eternatus. There is a huge opportunity cost with dynamaxing Yveltal, because you really dont want to eat Cannon, and both are at risk of 2hkoing each other. Meteor beam at +1 ohkos Yveltal. Dark pulse into Sucker Punch still has play around the fact that most Eternatus run recover, meaning that Sucker punch is not a free click to get the 2hko with Yveltal.
2. Kyogre does not match up well with Eternatus. Kyogre being forced to lock into Ice beam is not good for it, and 100% hp Spout usually fails to 2hko even on the switch. If Kyogre dynamaxes it will be slower than Eternatus always, and eats the double damage Dynamax Cannon while STILL failing to OHKO all variants of Eternatus.
3. Zacian is obviously not a good matchup, which is why Eternatus often pairs with things like Zapdos and Ditto, which can heavily punish Zacian and win outright after copying or Dynamaxing. But Zacian is also probably the best legend in the game, so its no surprise that Eternatus struggles with it just like many others.

These are simply the most common legends, so I figured Id address that to begin with, to show your assessment of Eternatus even in the world of legend vs legend only is incorrect.

Now, lets get to the main benefit of Eternatus that you have not touched on: its extremely hard to switch into. Although Zacian can often switch in with impunity, Eternatus is a huge momentum boost whenever it has good matchups and forces opponents to switch. Between meteor beam, toxic predictions, or just raw DCannon, it is very hard to not lose momentum when facing it, and it slowly get to the point where Eternatus outright wins. Sure, it might "lose" to these legends you point out, but you don't address the huge benefit of Eternatus in that it is almost without a doubt the hardest of the restricted legends for non-legends to actually beat. Anytime you have a non-legend in, bar Tyranitar, you are gonna have a bad time against it. It absolutely demolishes them. Ferrothorn, Cinderace, Zapdos, Rillaboom, all the stall spam mons, very few of them actually want to go in against Eternatus. In a real game, and not theorymon calcs, Eternatus can switch into so many non-legends for free, fire off a hit, and if they try to switch in their legend, they often will get to a damage range where they no longer can rely on dynamax to survive. The fact that you are putting up calcs vs random legends like Dialga, and none against the non-legend titans, like Cinderace (whom it straight up beats), shows that you are neglecting a lot in your analysis of this Pokemon.

I can see arguments for the great tier, and depending on the metagame, it might belong there. Especially with Kyogre currently there, which might be an oversight by us atm (I think most of us would rather see Kyogre rise than Eternatus fall). But Eternatus is nowhere near the low level that any of the Pokemon are in Good tier, and suggesting it might be around that level is pretty ludicrous.
 
I agree with the above post. Eternatus is definitely where it belongs. What I would say is that I'm not sure that Eternatus beats all non-legends significantly harder than Yvetal, Kyogre or Zacian-C which are also nightmares to switch into and require heavily constrictive teambuilding. I think all the big legends are difficult to conventionally switch into other than with fat defensive soaks and you can count their checks on two hands without using Focus Sash. Eternatus definitely does have a good matchup spread though, of that there is no doubt. Asides from Tyranitar it should also be pointed out that Eternatus is also hard checked by Heatran which gives it the Naganadel treatment. If anything, I'd rather (unless I'm using full stall) switch into a Tyranitar or a Heatran as opposed to switching into Chansey, Lapras or a Quagsire. The former two command respect on the battlefield and are a real pain to for opponents switch into. Not that this takes away significantly from the general difficulty of switching into Eternatus.

Excadrill, Landorus-T, Rhyperior, Mimikyu and Darmanitan-Galar are also solid checks in the right circumstances. Tapu Fini's Misty Terrain also heavily blunts the influence of Eternatus throughout a game and can be considered a check even if it does not beat Eternatus 1v1 as it opens up many other pokemon vs. Eternatus. Some teams do actually use Cinderace (especially AV Cinderace) as a bait for Eternatus funnily enough which does not take Zen Headbutt or Max Mindstorm particularly well if at all in the latters case. But you are always clutching at straws, what makes it broke I guess.
 
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Great posts by both 1TP and Ika. I'd like to add to the Eternatus discussion by saying that even the Zacian vs. Eternatus matchup is a bit shaky, though it still favors the dog. Yes, in a vacuum Zacian has the upper hand, but it's not a great switch-in. Flamethrower is a clean 2HKO on no bulk sets even from defensive Eternatus, and outside of the rare Psychic Fangs, even offensive sets are not at risk of being OHKOed by any of Zacian's +1 moves, meaning Eternatus can stay in and trade damage with Zacian if necessary, assuming it's at full.

Yeah, Eternatus is where it belongs.
 

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
Mini update!

First, I want to introduce the newest member of our VR team, chemcoop. Chemcoop is undoubtedly one of our best BSS players, and previously held positions on the VR in Generation 7, making him an easy inclusion to join our team now that he has taken a greater level of interest in Generation 8. He will be filling in for Psynergy, who will manage behind the scenes instead for Series 8 and return to lead the VR team for Series 9.

Now, we have decided to make a small shift in the upper rankings of the Restricted tier list, which goes as follows:

Calyrex-Ice: Good --> Great
Ho-Oh: Good --> Great

The council additionally was asked for input on moving Kyogre to Top tier, Calyrex-Shadow to Great tier, and Xerneas to Great tier. Kyogre did in fact get a majority of votes to rise to Top tier, and would normally have risen to Top tier if this were a normal full VR slate. However, due to the fact the decision was split and this was more of an impromptu voting session, we have decided to hold off on moving Kyogre up for now, and will re-vote on it near the end of the March season.

For transparency, here is how the votes were split amongst each Pokemon:
Kyogre: 4 "Top" Tier, 2 "Great" Tier, stays "Great" for now, will revote on this later.
Calyrex-Ice: 6 "Great" Tier, unanimous rise to "Great"
Calyrex Shadow: 3 "Great" Tier, 3 "Good" Tier, Stays "Good"
Ho-Oh: 5 "Great Tier, 1 "Good Tier, rise to "Great"
Xerneas: 1 "Great" Tier, 5 "Good" Tier: stays "Good
 
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Nominating Tapu Koko to Good. Maybe I'm biased cause I use it but it's done well. I think I added it for Urshifu SS and to beat Skarmory cause I had all physical mons. I actually use mine w/ AV which avoids the 2hko from Yveltal and the OHKO in Dynamax from Kyogre(and OHKOs back.)

But that set seems niche even to me, I think the main thing w/ Koko is to just run Spe for Cinderace not max(maybe, I do.) Then it can live some stuff if you put the remainder in, say, HP(I have mine in SpD cause AV so it can't live the following,) such as LO Cinderace Pyro Ball most of the time(just over half.) It can also then live Ho-oh EQ 87.5% of the time and 2hko. It outspeeds Yveltal and can 2hko(needs to Dynamax to 2hko the maxed Yveltal.) Lapras run WP much less than they used to so that helps. Koko has the dubious Grass Knot for all the 4x weaks. Too bad not Energy Ball cause of Dynamax, but Swampert, Quagsire, and the only 2x weak Hippo aren't good users of Dynamax, mostly, so they might not do that to block it. Koko 2hkos offensive Zapdos and beats Celesteela, Fini, and Toxapex.

On the other hand it loses completely to Eternatus and Zacian regardless of set, not even doing much before dying to the 1st. It's bad vs. most anything that takes special electric good such as Xerneas, Rilla, TTar, Heatran, Landog, and Nihilego. So imo it can never be Great. But maybe Good? As for my credentials w/ it I got to Master Ball last season(not a high rank but I don't play much-too much animation lol,) and am currently 5-0(again very little but good so far....though idk if I brought Koko to many of those games lol.) Koko has the 2nd strongest pivoting move in the game, just barely after Regieleki.

Lastly, Koko is #40 which isn't low for a currentlt Niche mon. Rayquaza is below #150 and that's Niche, for example.

EDIT: Unrelated but looking at usage stats and Primarina is above Dragapult(:O) Should this be considered in Prinarina's ranking or no? Since I know a lot of people really like the starters and use them above what makes sense in cases besides the good ones I even saw a Thwackey today...
 
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marilli

two, but one
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OK I know you like posting your opinions and I really don't like posting in these threads to argue about them, but I simply have to post because disregarding all my problems with the argument, the "supporting facts" are straight up fake news factually incorrect. Primarina does not have higher usage than Dragapult, and Koko has similar, or even lower usage than a lot of other niche rank Pokemon, including but not limited to Cresselia, Umbreon, Whimsicott, Primarina, and Shedinja. And why are you even comparing between them? Koko has significantly lower usage than most of "Good." If you are looking at previous season usage, then that still does not change the two facts above. Restricted Pokemon naturally get lower usage than non-restricted Pokemon so that comparison is dishonest at best. At that point you might just argue Yveltal should be at Good because it has lower usage than Tapu Fini and no restricted other than Zacian should be in Top Tier or Great.

Please, try to make informed posts.


Separate from the above post, for full disclosure, I voted Kyogre and Shadow Rider up to Top and Great, but I understand I am not the sole person in charge of the VR.
 
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Is Pikalytics wrong? You have a point on the actual point I had but on the extra part it appears Primarina is slightly above. I don't agree that it should be, but still.

EDIT: It is just like 2 days into the season Pikalytics isn't updated yet. What site are you using where it is, and Cresselia and Whimsicott are above Koko(they were not season 8?)
 
Could Blacephalon be considered niche? Scarfed with a +SpA nature, it can easily revenge kill some of the most popular pokemon, including:

vs Zacian-C: Flamethrower will always OHKO Zacian-C.
vs Calyrex-Ice: Mind Blown will always OHKO unless Calyrex has Assault Vest.
vs Calyrex-Shadow: Shadow ball will always OHKO, but will be outsped if Calyrex is scarfed.
vs Landorus-T: Mind Blown will always OHKO.
vs Necrozma DM: Necrozma requires significant SpDef investment to avoid being OHKOed by Mind Blown.
vs Necrozma DW: Necrozma requires significant SpDef investment to avoid being OHKOed by Shadow Ball.
vs Ferrothorn: Mind Blown will always OHKO, even in rain.

Of course, it dies if anything looks funny at it, and Focus Sash ruins its day, but there's a lot of matchups where it can instantly delete one of the opponent's key Pokemon, so I'd say it deserves a niche spot.
 

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
Could Blacephalon be considered niche? Scarfed with a +SpA nature, it can easily revenge kill some of the most popular pokemon, including:

vs Zacian-C: Flamethrower will always OHKO Zacian-C.
vs Calyrex-Ice: Mind Blown will always OHKO unless Calyrex has Assault Vest.
vs Calyrex-Shadow: Shadow ball will always OHKO, but will be outsped if Calyrex is scarfed.
vs Landorus-T: Mind Blown will always OHKO.
vs Necrozma DM: Necrozma requires significant SpDef investment to avoid being OHKOed by Mind Blown.
vs Necrozma DW: Necrozma requires significant SpDef investment to avoid being OHKOed by Shadow Ball.
vs Ferrothorn: Mind Blown will always OHKO, even in rain.

Of course, it dies if anything looks funny at it, and Focus Sash ruins its day, but there's a lot of matchups where it can instantly delete one of the opponent's key Pokemon, so I'd say it deserves a niche spot.
Honestly, I actually considered Blacephalon a decent option before the metagame developed, but it hasnt seen any usage atm so I cant justify a spot until it actually acquires a niche representation in the meta, even though it may deserve one in a theoretical meta. If it does ever see reasonable usage or it does well in the upcoming smogon bss tour (ladder tour), we can revisit this mon then!
 
Nominating Quagsire from Great to Good. I had finally decided to replace....a certain mon I'm not supposed to talk about....w/ Quagsire mainly for the good match-up vs. Arcanine which I couldn't handle at all. And since it maintained efficacy vs. Zacian it seemed good. But it was unbringable and when I did I lost. It was like playing w/ 5 mons. Too many special attackers that easily get rid of it like, chiefly, Zapdos(it hates a Toxic and misses a lot if you can't Dynamax, but when it hits it does most of Quagsire's HP in damage,.) Also Lapras freeze-dry which is another common teammate for Zacian. It's not flawless vs. physical attackers ofc, so coupled w/ inability to deal w/ really ANY special attacekrs(bar Regieleki...which is probably screens anyway though) I'd estimate it covers well under half of pertinent threats. That doesn't seem Great to me(not even good but changes happen slowly here, just a tier or so at a time rarely big jumps.)

Although maybe I was using it wrong? Probably, and mine has Counter not Scald fwiw. But I still maintain that it's the reason I dropped over 30k places.
 
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I personally think Quagsire is pretty great, it just does its job against very specific threats. Yea it sucks vs. half of the meta, but it is the best Zacian-C check in the game, its job is literally to switch into the most broken restricted in the format. I don't think there is much more to say since Quagsire doesn't really need to ever take a hit from Zapdos/Lapras. To me that is misunderstanding what Quagsire's role is. Chansey is another example, of course it isn't great against setup and strong physical attackers, but its alright at switching into Kyogre and Zapdos though.
 
I've played far more of Series 8 than I ever planned to as well as done quite a lot of research on what is good so I thought I'd give my suggestions more formally for where I think pokemon are currently at.

Restricted Mons:

:yveltal: Yveltal: Top Tier -> Great

I think Yvetal is a case of a pokemon that is theoretically broken, but in practice falls a bit short. Being weak to Zacian-C and Zapdos is a pretty hard burden to bear. There are also other walls such as Tyranitar and Nihilego which are pretty common as well as Max Rockfall being everywhere which hold it back when you go higher up the rankings.

:eternatus: Eternatus: Great -> Top Tier

This pokemon is just stupidly strong in my opinion for a similar reason to Zacian-C in that it has an absurd stat spread, typing, can counter Dynamax and doesn't Dynamax itself which means it indirectly enables your team. I also think Eternatus is pretty unpredictable, from Specs/Scarf to Toxic Spikes to Cosmic Power there is a lot this pokemon can do. It also happens to beat pretty much every non-restricted pokemon in the 1v1 outside of specific checks.


(whoops forgot to look up for whatever reason)

:kyogre: Kyogre: Great -> Top Tier

Yes, it's pretty braindead in a lot of scenarios where you are just wanting ideally to click a scarf water move in the rain, but does it really matter? Dracovish only clicks fishous rend but its still dumb as shit even though you know what it's going to do. That's how I feel about Kyogre except it can click other moves unlike vish and they do tons of damage due to Kyogres great SpA. Ogre also has great Bulk and can do the whole Dynamax thing unlike Vish.

:calyrex-shadow: Calyrex Shadow Rider: Good -> Great

I could make a case for some of the Great pokemon to go down to the general amorphous blob of Good where the average restricted mons live but Calyrex Shadow-Rider has honestly surprised me. I was laddering with Zacian-C teams and they honestly unless you have the right answers struggle pretty hard with Calyrex Shadow-Rider. Its faster than Zacian-C, hits hard, decent enough Dynamaxer, can do substitute stuff. I think it does help that Mimikyu isn't as good in Series 8, being only very common as opposed to on half of teams.


Non-Restricted Mons:


:zapdos: Zapdos: Top Tier to Zapdos Tier

Best mon in the format, it isn't even close, the only time you won't be seeing this stupid bird is on stall teams or if someone has decided they want to be a bit creative. It's on 19/25 highest placing teams in Season 15 for example and some of those teams it isn't on are full stall. Other than that I agree with mostly everything here, could split hairs but seem relatively alright.
 
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Nominating Kyurem-White to Good. It's special move is a bit pointless w/ the charge turn, but it does get good attacks, even if it's Max Airstream is physical.

The Zapdos match-up seems like almost enough to make it Good, but I have a bit more. It can survive an attack from Eternatus w/ max HP(or some better defensive EV spread,) or outspeed it w. scarf/a boost. It can ohko Necrozma-DM 25% of the time w/ rocks up and max SpA thanks to its ability. Now that's not that great cause Necrozma will ohko for sure but anything that can hurt that thing seems notable. It matches well w/ Zygarde, Ferro, Landog, and Zekrom, and does ok w/ Kyogre and Yveltal. If giving up power or running 2 ice attacks is ok for you it can take on bulky waters w/ Freeze-Dry.

Mostly I think its higher stats when compared to Zekrom should be enough to put it in the same tier as Zekrom. This is what I noticed to make me nominate it, that its lower than one of the Kyurem component mons.
 
Nominating Kyurem-White to Good.
Honestly when I see any Kyurem form I’m just like “oh a free Necrozma kill” and that’s not a good look for a restricted mon. Yeah KW can nuke stuff but when you only get 1 restricted on your team you should be very selective in what you pick and how you build around it. KW has a lot of shortcomings that just make it quite a mediocre pick as your restricted mon, even if he can nuke.
 

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
A lot of the above Pokemon have been included in this upcoming slate, but theres several other additions we as a group have begun to discuss that we want to get community input on. I have included some rationale in a spoiler, but feel free to provide your opinions without potentially being biased by the thoughts I included in the spoiler!

:swampert:
Because there is a ton of grass coverage atm and right now if you wanna ensure getting rocks up, you use Hippowdon or Landorus-T, simple as that
:nihilego:
Our rationale was that it is a decent special wall but very little reason to use a rock special wall that isn't Tyranitar atm: this is more that Tyranitar is so damn good in this meta than nihilego is bad (if Ttar wasn't there it would be seeing a lot more usage)
:porygon2:
Same as Nihilego, it is a bit too passive in this metagame and isn't the hard stop it was in series 7 to a variety of threats. If you try to use it to stop zapdos, you get swept by physical sweepers, and if you use it to beat Dusk-mane with foul play, you lose to special sweepers. It wants to do too much and ends up doing too little with poor momentum
:excadrill:
One of the strongest performers from the first season, it pairs really well in cycle oriented gameplay due to its variety of immunities/resistances and excellent synergy with its teammates, while also having the ability to break opposing cycles with its wallbreaking ability and speed boosting with Sand Rush
:rhyperior:
This is a hard stop to the best Pokemon in the format in Zapdos, and can reliably trade with a variety physical legends as well. Some matchups it won't see play but on the ones it does, it is a menace. Also was a prominent member of the first place team last season.
:darmanitan-galar:
Darm is nearly top 15 usage, far higher than any other Pokemon listed in "good", and remains a staple in cycle play with U-turn and cleanup via Scarf. Overall strong pick for taking out a variety of legends.

Also something we considered: Reorganization of the border of Top Tier and Great for non-restricteds.
We felt there may be a gap growing between the most used of the top tier mons of non-restricted and the lesser used ones. Mons we considered shifting down the rankings of to reflect a potentially growing gap were :rillaboom: :lapras: :ditto:
Alternatively, we also considered keeping those mons in the top tier and including :urshifu-rapid-strike:in top tier, which has risen in popularity. What are your thoughts on this potential organization shift?
 
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A lot of the above Pokemon have been included in this upcoming slate, but theres several other additions we as a group have begun to discuss that we want to get community input on. I have included some rationale in a spoiler, but feel free to provide your opinions without potentially being biased by the thoughts I included in the spoiler!

:swampert:
Because there is a ton of grass coverage atm and right now if you wanna ensure getting rocks up, you use Hippowdon or Landorus-T, simple as that
:nihilego:
Our rationale was that it is a decent special wall but very little reason to use a rock special wall that isn't Tyranitar atm: this is more that Tyranitar is so damn good in this meta than nihilego is bad (if Ttar wasn't there it would be seeing a lot more usage)
:porygon2:
Same as Nihilego, it is a bit too passive in this metagame and isn't the hard stop it was in series 7 to a variety of threats. If you try to use it to stop zapdos, you get swept by physical sweepers, and if you use it to beat Dusk-mane with foul play, you lose to special sweepers. It wants to do too much and ends up doing too little with poor momentum
:excadrill:
One of the strongest performers from the first season, it pairs really well in cycle oriented gameplay due to its variety of immunities/resistances and excellent synergy with its teammates, while also having the ability to break opposing cycles with its wallbreaking ability and speed boosting with Sand Rush
:rhyperior:
This is a hard stop to the best Pokemon in the format in Zapdos, and can reliably trade with a variety physical legends as well. Some matchups it won't see play but on the ones it does, it is a menace. Also was a prominent member of the first place team last season.


Also something we considered: Reorganization of the border of Top Tier and Great for non-restricteds.
We felt there may be a gap growing between the most used of the top tier mons of non-restricted and the lesser used ones. Mons we considered shifting down the rankings of to reflect a potentially growing gap were :rillaboom: :lapras: :ditto:
Alternatively, we also considered keeping those mons in the top tier and including :urshifu-rapid-strike:in top tier, which has risen in popularity. What are your thoughts on this potential organization shift?

I can't speak for all of these pokemon, but i have experience with rhyperior in that it is actually a pretty decent mon in this format, mainly for being a stellar zapdos check, and i'll admit even i was sleeping on it going into series 8 (because of you-know-who *cough zacian cough cough). but i've used a japanese rental over the past month(ish) with rhyperior, and from what i can tell, rhyperior plays a very similar game to how it did in series 7, having a lot of volatile matchups, against things with zacian / water / grass types it rarely ever comes, but i've brought it into zapdoses (and also cinderaces) quite a bit tho.
the bad zacian, lapras and rillaboom matchups are definitely problematic but i agree with 1tp in putting this guy up into Great.
 
A lot of the above Pokemon have been included in this upcoming slate, but theres several other additions we as a group have begun to discuss that we want to get community input on. I have included some rationale in a spoiler, but feel free to provide your opinions without potentially being biased by the thoughts I included in the spoiler!

:swampert:
Because there is a ton of grass coverage atm and right now if you wanna ensure getting rocks up, you use Hippowdon or Landorus-T, simple as that
:nihilego:
Our rationale was that it is a decent special wall but very little reason to use a rock special wall that isn't Tyranitar atm: this is more that Tyranitar is so damn good in this meta than nihilego is bad (if Ttar wasn't there it would be seeing a lot more usage)
:porygon2:
Same as Nihilego, it is a bit too passive in this metagame and isn't the hard stop it was in series 7 to a variety of threats. If you try to use it to stop zapdos, you get swept by physical sweepers, and if you use it to beat Dusk-mane with foul play, you lose to special sweepers. It wants to do too much and ends up doing too little with poor momentum
:excadrill:
One of the strongest performers from the first season, it pairs really well in cycle oriented gameplay due to its variety of immunities/resistances and excellent synergy with its teammates, while also having the ability to break opposing cycles with its wallbreaking ability and speed boosting with Sand Rush
:rhyperior:
This is a hard stop to the best Pokemon in the format in Zapdos, and can reliably trade with a variety physical legends as well. Some matchups it won't see play but on the ones it does, it is a menace. Also was a prominent member of the first place team last season.


Also something we considered: Reorganization of the border of Top Tier and Great for non-restricteds.
We felt there may be a gap growing between the most used of the top tier mons of non-restricted and the lesser used ones. Mons we considered shifting down the rankings of to reflect a potentially growing gap were :rillaboom: :lapras: :ditto:
Alternatively, we also considered keeping those mons in the top tier and including :urshifu-rapid-strike:in top tier, which has risen in popularity. What are your thoughts on this potential organization shift?
I'll make some additional statements onto this. For context I've played around 400 BSS games in the last 2 weeks and been reading a lot aroudn the subject.

:swampert: On Swampert, my opinion is that it hasn't ever been that good and has faced stiff competition. When it comes to that general typing, you have to understand also that there exists Quagsire, to a lesser degree, and Seismitoad. In a lot of matchups where Swampert could potentially put in work, Seismitoad adds a more offensive dynamic. I feel like with Swampert, you are using it when you are trying to do (almost) too many things with one slot.

:nihilego: I've never been sold too much on this pokemon as you know. I think it should also be noted that Nihilego loses to Tyranitar hard in the 1v1 and is hopeless versus any physical attacker, chief amongst this is lead zacian-c, darmanitan-g and cinderace. I feel like Tyranitar whilst it does share some of the weaknesses of Nihilego puts out an offensive presence that is harder to wall.

:porygon2: yea at that point if you are going for P2, honestly you are looking towards chansey. It's usable into Zapdos but you'd much rather use stops like Rhyperior, Tyranitar, opposing Zapdos or Eternatus that are way harder to switch into. It also is IMO not as good against Necrozma Dusk-Mane as people think, since you can max Steelspike vs. P2 after doing a dragon dance and you take less than 25% from foul play.

Agree with and don't have much to add to Excadrill and Rhyperior. I'll comment on where I'd make general tierings later.
 
I agree with everything, and very much on Swampert(yay it's not Hippo they brought!) p2(misses Toxic too badly as a TM. I tried it but it's not taking on Zacian, Kyogre, Yveltal....most stuff.) and Excadrill(my team is weak to this for the most part it's really good w/ setting it's own sand and STAB on both defensive max boosting attacks.)
 

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
Update!

The second month of Series 8 has concluded and the council has voted on the tier placement of the following Pokemon in our second slate of the metagame.

Restricted Pokemon
:kyogre: Great --> Top Tier: Rise to Top Tier (Unanimous vote)
:yveltal: Top tier --> Great: Drop to Great (Unanimous vote)
:calyrex-shadow: Good --> Great: Rise to Great (Unanimous vote)

Non-Restricted Pokemon
:lapras: Top Tier --> Great: Stays Top Tier (1 - 5 Vote)
:rillaboom: Top Tier --> Great: Drops to Great (5 - 1 Vote)
:ditto: Top Tier --> Great: Drops to Great (Unanimous Vote)
:urshifu-rapid-strike: Great --> Top Tier: Stays Great (2 - 4 Vote)
:swampert: Great --> Good: Drops to Good (4 - 1 Vote)
:nihilego: Great --> Good: Drops to Good (Unanimous Vote)
:porygon2: Great --> Good: Stays Great (3 - 3 Vote)
:excadrill: Good --> Great: Stays Good (3 - 3 Vote)
:rhyperior: Good --> Great: Rise to Great (5 - 1 Vote)
:darmanitan-galar: Good --> Great: Rise to Great (4 - 2 Vote)

Please note: This vote largely did NOT use the results of the second season top team placements.

Username?YveltalKyogreCalyex-ShadowExcadrillRhyperiorSwampertNihilegoDarmanitan-GalarPorygon2RillaboomDittoLaprasUrshifu-Rapid Strike
1tpGreatTop TierGreatGreatGreatGoodGoodGreatGoodGreatGreatGreatGreat
chemcoopGreatTop TierGreatGreatGreatGoodGoodGreatGoodGreatGreatTop TierGreat
GreilMercenary9GreatTop TierGreatGoodGoodGreatGoodGoodGoodTop TierGreatTop TierGreat
marilliGreatTop Tier. This one and Calyrex Shadow is a pretty big gimme. I think these 2 are the most important votes in the slate.GreatGoodGreatGoodGoodGreatGreatGreatGreatTop TierTop Tier
TheorymonGreatTop TierGreatGreatGreatGoodGoodGreatGreatGreatGreatTop TierTop Tier
salty streamerGreatTop TierGreatGoodGreatGreatGoodGoodGreatGreatGreatTop TierGreat


Thank you to all of the community and council members who participated in helping make this happen. Be on the lookout for a mini slate in the next coming weeks of Pokemon that will compile data from the top placing teams!
 
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