Series 8 Viability Rankings

[He-who-is-not-to-be-named]

I am not the most experienced player here(not by a really really really long shot), but I guess I can give my two cents on S-rank Zacian.

As mentioned by others here, Zacian-Crowned is fearsome to face - even in the age of restricted pokemon, it stands out for really hitting like a truck. And while its inability to Dynamax may seem like a hindrance, it may actually be beneficial for Zacian's teammates, because now they have much more opportunities to max. This in turn allows for teams to exert more offensive pressure.

While most teams have found strategies to counter Zacian-Crowned effectively so it doesn't completely destroy Kyurem-W, Caly-I, etc., Zacian teams have also found strategies when sun comes up, or when the Steel-Psychics are on the field. Zacian's incredible speed tier and massive Attack stat also allow for it to put in a lot of work with minimal effort put in supporting it, giving more freedom in the teambuilder, which in turn means people can use a potential second offensive powerhouse that prefers to Dynamax to reach its full potential. The sheer power and versatility that Zacian offers has made it a cornerstone of the meta, to the point where the most successful teams are either Zacian teams or teams that can stop Zacian teams reliably.

For example, in the Players Cup III NA Top Cut, most teams were either running Zacian or sun(which is one of the best counters to Zacian currently in the meta, which definitely made it more popular in S8). Heck, when Wolfey was challenged to build a team with Stonjourner, the restricted he used was... you guessed it... Zacian.

The way Zacian has changed the meta in S8 is very hard to overstate, from the beginning of S8 to the end, and as such, one can argue that Zacian is one of the best pokemon in the meta right now.

When looking back at the requirement for S, it says "reserved for the metagame's best pokemon". By that logic, I am arguing that Zacian should be considered for either A+, S- or S tier.

 

[jonas]

Venusaur A+ > S
Venusaur is widely considered the best maxer in the game. Its ability to set up disgusting amounts of chip as well with its ability to hit almost every Strong pokemon in the game really sets it apart. It can also run sleep powder, as well as a variety of very valuable items that allhave incredible merit such as weakness policy, sash, coba and lifeorb. All of these factors Contribute to the fact that it is just the best in the meta. Along with 5/8 na or eu teams that qualified for the players cup finals teams had it, it is on the same consistency and should be on the same tier as incineroar.
Coalossal A-> A/A+
Coal is an Incredibly potent threat in the metagame. It is in A- because of the little versatility, but i disagree with this. I think it should go up because
1. the ability to make incredibly strong teams around it
Coal teams can significantly vary, and all provide spectacular results-
For Example -
Mike D'angelo, Joseph Ugarte and Roberto Porcetti all qualified for pc3 using very different coal teams, Mikes Included Amoongus, Joes Included Yveltal and Robertos Included Landorus. These are all Pretty significant changes as they all provide different things for teams, and all work
2. While It suffers in versatility, It is the best at what it does
Nothing Likes taking a +2 volcalith + chip except for groudon. but even against groudon, it is worth sacrificing it just for the chip so your zacian, rillaboom, and urshifu can clean up the rest of the game. It is almost always worth sacrificing your max turn 1 to get up rocks, just so you can bully the rest of the team with INCREDIBLY strong non maxers to clean up behind it.

In my opinion these are 2 of the strongest mons in the game, and the results show.

 

[Giokio]

I am not the most experienced player here(not by a really really really long shot), but I guess I can give my two cents on S-rank Zacian.

As mentioned by others here, Zacian-Crowned is fearsome to face - even in the age of restricted pokemon, it stands out for really hitting like a truck. And while its inability to Dynamax may seem like a hindrance, it may actually be beneficial for Zacian's teammates, because now they have much more opportunities to max. This in turn allows for teams to exert more offensive pressure.

While most teams have found strategies to counter Zacian-Crowned effectively so it doesn't completely destroy Kyurem-W, Caly-I, etc., Zacian teams have also found strategies when sun comes up, or when the Steel-Psychics are on the field. Zacian's incredible speed tier and massive Attack stat also allow for it to put in a lot of work with minimal effort put in supporting it, giving more freedom in the teambuilder, which in turn means people can use a potential second offensive powerhouse that prefers to Dynamax to reach its full potential. The sheer power and versatility that Zacian offers has made it a cornerstone of the meta, to the point where the most successful teams are either Zacian teams or teams that can stop Zacian teams reliably.

For example, in the Players Cup III NA Top Cut, most teams were either running Zacian or sun(which is one of the best counters to Zacian currently in the meta, which definitely made it more popular in S8). Heck, when Wolfey was challenged to build a team with Stonjourner, the restricted he used was... you guessed it... Zacian.

The way Zacian has changed the meta in S8 is very hard to overstate, from the beginning of S8 to the end, and as such, one can argue that Zacian is one of the best pokemon in the meta right now.

When looking back at the requirement for S, it says "reserved for the metagame's best pokemon". By that logic, I am arguing that Zacian should be considered for either A+, S- or S tier.

I have something to say about this, what you said is correct, but remember that zacian is vulnerable to fake out. Other restricteds can just dynamax and keep the offensive momentum going, zacian can’t.
So I don’t think it can be tied with Incineroar

 

[He-who-is-not-to-be-named]

Venusaur A+ > S
Venusaur is widely considered the best maxer in the game. Its ability to set up disgusting amounts of chip as well with its ability to hit almost every Strong pokemon in the game really sets it apart. It can also run sleep powder, as well as a variety of very valuable items that allhave incredible merit such as weakness policy, sash, coba and lifeorb. All of these factors Contribute to the fact that it is just the best in the meta. Along with 5/8 na or eu teams that qualified for the players cup finals teams had it, it is on the same consistency and should be on the same tier as incineroar.
Coalossal A-> A/A+
Coal is an Incredibly potent threat in the metagame. It is in A- because of the little versatility, but i disagree with this. I think it should go up because
1. the ability to make incredibly strong teams around it
Coal teams can significantly vary, and all provide spectacular results-
For Example -
Mike D'angelo, Joseph Ugarte and Roberto Porcetti all qualified for pc3 using very different coal teams, Mikes Included Amoongus, Joes Included Yveltal and Robertos Included Landorus. These are all Pretty significant changes as they all provide different things for teams, and all work
2. While It suffers in versatility, It is the best at what it does
Nothing Likes taking a +2 volcalith + chip except for groudon. but even against groudon, it is worth sacrificing it just for the chip so your zacian, rillaboom, and urshifu can clean up the rest of the game. It is almost always worth sacrificing your max turn 1 to get up rocks, just so you can bully the rest of the team with INCREDIBLY strong non maxers to clean up behind it.

In my opinion these are 2 of the strongest mons in the game, and the results show.

Gonna have to disagree with the Venusaur nomination bub. Again, like what Giokio said about Zacian, Venusaur is susceptible to opponents realizing its speed tier in Sun, as well as all of the things that come with it. This means that if you want to run Venusaur T1 you're probably gonna want to max. Even then, you still have to consider flying type attacks or fire-type attacks, which are on almost every team in the current VGC metagame, and especially common on Sun teams, where sometimes the very thing that enables Venusaur to go I am speed is the very thing that ends up aiding in its defeat. For example, most sun teams in the PCIII Top Cut NA either had Charizard or Torkoal and Incineroar, and both do massive amounts of damage to Venusaur. As well, rain teams or teams that set up some other kind of weather can remove Venusaur's boosts, and if you play correctly, you can KO Kermit-With-A-Flower before it gets to do anything meaningful.

Even if those weaknesses were less prominent, Venusaur relies on Sun to fulfill its true potential because otherwise it would be outsped and it wouldn't be much better than Rillaboom. This lack of versatility is probably the biggest nail in Venusaur's coffin for S. I think that it should stay in A+ for now, as it is a very prominent pokemon and a powerful threat, but it is not something that is incredibly versatile across the metagame(since it's hindered by the fact that it needs Sun to truly be able to do its best).

Your Coalossal nomination I second, given the shift in the metagame right now Coalossal is definitely a good pokemon to build around. Placing it it in A+ might be a bit of a stretch, but it definitely has more of a presence right now imo than things like Lapras(and for good reason), and it 100% deserves to be in A.

 

[He-who-is-not-to-be-named]

I have something to say about this, what you said is correct, but remember that zacian is vulnerable to fake out. Other restricteds can just dynamax and keep the offensive momentum going, zacian can’t.
So I don’t think it can be tied with Incineroar

True, but if an S- rank is ever created, I'm voting for Zacian to go there first thing.

 

[yuki]

We're gonna leave this thread unlocked until May 7 for people to put any last thoughts for the meta in, after then we'll make our final adjustments to the VR and we'll lock it from then on. Thanks to everyone so far for all the insights that you've given us, they've really helped us get this to where it is. We'll see you in Series 9 (give it a few minutes I will get it up)!

 

[jonas]

Dragapult A- -> A
Grimmsnarl A -> A+
Good bye to the worst format of all time

 

[DaWoblefet]

I ended up doing pretty bad in Series 8 so take my opinions with a grain of salt:

Zacian-C -> S; the whole metagame warped around this thing; a big part of the reason sun is so popular is because it did well vs Zacian. It fit on all kinds of archetypes and defined the tier.
Rillaboom -> B+; this mon kinda sucked bc its matchups were so polarizing (free Sub on Zacian, useless into sun, didn't insta-solve anything, weak to Airstream)
Torkoal -> A-; enabler that was definitely much better than in past formats, but itself still pretty average
Dragapult -> A; once people figured out that it was still playable in a Zacian metagame, especially due to its positive matchups vs sun and rain, it really showed up. Notably flexible as a key support mon on Coal.
Metagross -> B; pretty bad imo
Rotom-W -> A-; great typing vs everything but Venu (checks Groudon / Kyogre / Zacian / maxing Steels without Psychic Fings / Calyrex-Ice / Lando), easy to Nasty Plot with and max to mess stuff up
Dusclops -> C; not a great TR setter in this format
Kingdra -> B; the Zacian rain Goth stuff that got popular later in Series 8 really impressed me, and Kingdra is a big part of it
Blastoise -> C; Boyt has definitely proven in NPA this mon minimally deserves a rank. G-Max chip moves are too good, and having Fake Out on top is really nice.

 

[Helios of Sun]

So some quick final thoughts on the VR: (I have not played S8 in a week, so I'm not sure how the metagame has changed or much of what happened in NPA):

Before I jump right in, there may be heavy personal bias for anti-sun mons, primarily because it has shown up to be the one of the strongest archetypes in the metagame.

Zacian (A+ >> S)
My earlier thoughts on Zacian still apply today.

Palkia (B+ >> A-)
I played quite a bit of Redsilver's Palkia team on ladder and in room tours, and what I found is that the Palkia/Rotom-Heat combo is easily one of the strongest sun-buster combos I have found on any team. Apart from losing to most other Dragon restricteds out there (which can be circumvented with the usage of Fake Tears), I think Palkia deserves merit in A- as an extremely solid restricted late season.

Zapdos (A- >> A)
This may be my personal bias showing here too. AaPokemon793 has constantly been talking about how Safety Goggles Zapdos + Kyogre destroyed many many sun teams, and after putting Zapdos on my own Ogre team, can attest to that. Zapdos does a crap ton of damage, do decently well against Sun, and also beats Zacian with enough bulk.

Grimmsnarl (A >> A+)
I hate this mon. So very much. It can do so many things. Screens, Speed Control, Defense Drops, Special Attack Drops, Fake Out, you name it. I seriously cannot understate how important Utility has been in VGC, and this mon is basically the epitome of it. Oh, did I forget to mention that Grimmsnarl enabled WP Venusaur to rise straight to the top?

Metagross (A- >> B+)
Oh Metagross, the dropoff you faced when sun became good. Metagross is definitely an A/S tier Pokemon on Yveltal and Kyogre, or Dual Primals teams, but as sun became more and more popular, the clear weakness of Metagross to Groudon and Charizard became especially apparent, and hard for me to look away from.

Other than that, I think the list looks fantastic. As always, thanks to the VR team for the great list!

 

[yuki]

I guess time for me to throw some of my thoughts together:

Zacian-C A+ -> S:
I still think this is an extremely polarising mon in the game. The fact that it's actively the most built around Restricted should speak volumes of its power.

Rillaboom A -> B:
I think that this thing just struggles against so many matchups, and basically having to max it to KO Kyogre is a bit mish at the best of times. I think being completely useless Sun, letting Zacian setup something for free, big weakness to Calyrex-I and any Airstream just makes this underwhelming.

Dragapult A- -> A:
I used it this Series. I used to avoid it like the plague. But it's just generally that good. I think as a support mon, Coalossal loves this thing just existing and being fast enough to pull off basically anything that it wants to. As an offensive mon, it's still super good into Sun despite the prominence of Zacian-C.

Metagross A- -> B:
This thing kinda just fell off, and I really don't think it warrants being anywhere near this rank. It's a good mon still, but B is as high as I'd put it.

Kartana B+ -> B:
Another mon I think isn't as good due to matchups. It shares a lot of the same bad points as Rillaboom, while actually being worse against Zacian.

Gothitelle B -> B+:
I think Shadow Tag alongside Zacian-C is just stupid, and it has so many good supportive options that it's hard to ignore.

Ferrothorn B -> B+:
You know my justification for this thing. I love how this thing can entirely change the game at preview. The new goal isn't take all 4 KOs, it's make Ferro unbeatable by the rest of the team, and I like that a lot.

Mamoswine B -> B-:
Probably just my ignorance on this one, but I really don't care for Mamoswine still. I think it's just a cut below what we already have in that tier.

Ho-Oh B- -> C:
I hate this thing. It just feels super underwhelming, especially giving up a restricted slot for it. Without any boosts, it hits a bit like a noodle. It's super weak into the ubiquitous Thundurus, as well as Kyogre teams and AP Zard. I would genuinely rather run Sunless Zard than run this thing.

Kingdra C -> B-:
I really like the look of Zacian Rain and Kingdra is a big part of that. I think being a natural Sun answer with the Rain aspect and a good Airstream makes it worthwhile and should be mentioned here.

 

[BK]

i'll give my opinion as well.
i agree with zacian going in S, by far the best restricted in the format, splashable in different teams/playstyles and very easy to use, great bulk, crazy dmg output its almost the same as using two dynamax mons.
for the same reason as zacian being easily used in different teams id say grimmsnarl from A -> A+, can be used in many different ways and most of the times priority screens give a slight advantage to you if your opponent doesn't have them, it is probabily the best way of dmg reduction you have in a dmax meta since switching is way harder than it was without this mechanic, thunder wave/scary face even make it a sort of speed controll for teams with thunder wave not only speed controling but even being a long term investment/win condition for the game that works better than previous series thx to fini absence.
i think i'd also put reshiram and zekrom in c rank just because theyre not as bad as the other mons in d rank and some teams with them had some decent results in ladder and tours.
probabily torkoal from A to A- , koal itself is not that good of a pokemon but it has some reason why it deserves to be used such being a good lead against thundu zacian and allowing sun without using a restricted slot but it dont think thats enough for it to deserve a full A.
Rillaboom in b looks the best spot for it to me, not easy to put in builds and is clearly worse than all the mons from A to B+ and i see very few reason to "waste" a slot using it if not in some rare case.
mienshao and kingdra to b- , they both got good results in tours but they can be used only in some archeotypes of teams to be viable but they for sure deserve some respect, while id put nihilego in c since i dont rememebr it having good results(?) and i dont see reasons to run it in general since it doesnt help with things in particular.
last thing dusclops to c rank, outclassed by p2 and mimikyu, not many reasons to use it if not gravity maybe.
agree with everything else

 

[Spurrific]

Zacian-C A+ -> S
Don't really need to explain this one, the users that posted before me hit the nail on the head.

Venusaur A+ -> S
I think Venusuar is by far the best non-restricted in the format. Its coverage this gen is insane as it gained Earth Power and Weather Ball, plus it has a very strong Max Move toolkit between those moves and its stabs. It beats Kyogre and Groudon outright, threatens Zacian and Calyrex Ice with SE damage, and can still beat Calyrex Shadow given the right circumstances. It has a really good matchup into many of the top non-restricteds, with the only really negative ones being Thundurus, Charizard, Lando-T, and Zapdos. Venu has also seen a lot of usage alongside 4 of the top 5 restricteds including Kyogre which is just wild to me. Sleep Powder threatens teams as a mixup option if they lean too hard into covering the Venu maxing, and I think we already know how busted Vine Lash is.

Coalossal A- -> A
Feel like Coal is on par with Shadow Rider in terms of archetype strength, it's very difficult to deal with even when you get to prep for it as seen by Rahxen's run in NPA. It also can do well in an IC setting as Gengarboi reached 1770s with it.

Regieleki S -> A+
Still a fantastic mon but don't think it's dominant enough to be considered S. When Eleki rose to S the most used teams were TornOgre and Zacian Lapras so it made sense at the time but with the rise of a lot of sun variants it should probably drop down now.

Torkoal A -> A-
Agreed with the others on Torkoal dropping, it's basically a Venusaur enabler when you want to use a non-Groudon restricted. That being said it improves matchups that Venu struggles with really well, especially Thundurus, Lando-T, and CalyIce, so I think it does deserve to stay at A-.

Rillaboom A -> B
Share the same sentiments as the others, I noticed a month ago that it had high usage into tournaments but very poor conversion rates into top cut. Feels like it only ever belongs on Coalossal teams right now.

Kingdra to B-
Zacian Goth Rain is pretty cool so I think this mon deserves a spot here. I got messed up by it in the IC

Don't really want to look at everything in the lower ranks so I'll leave that to the others, but I think everything unmentioned in B through S is fine where they are

 

[Meloetta imperactive]

(Sorry if other times I wrote badly, I am not the best person writing a lot; -;)

I'm coming to my opinion, to talk about the last things of series 8

The ones that would go down for me:

Ho-oH (B-> C): I know that almost everyone has already said it, but yep, the ho-oh teams for a couple of weeks began to disappear, but if we take into account that already ho-oh no He did very well in this series, and even Talonfey and Charizard were preferred (The latter and everyone should know why he is so good at the moment)

Lunala, Necrozma Wings of oblivion, Kyurem Black I think they should still be there in D, Kyurem Black is a little better in singles, and it has no use in doubles, the others, because I leave them the same

Xerneas (C> -C): I said it once, and I'll say it again, What is SPECIAL about Xerneas beyond Geocontrol, or that you occupy it, instead of Zacian, more because Xerneas with or without Dinamax is very Crushable Either with Strategies that take away her power, or bring Necrozma Melena to humiliate her in front of her own team, Simply Disappointing

Those who climb for me:
Zacian (+ A> S): I don't have to say it, the Espadachin is Too Good

Palkia (B+ > A): This mon, is a very solid pokemon, Good Typing, and at the same time that even without Kyogre, it can generate great havoc, but because pokemon like Kyogre or Groudon are not a problem for him.


The rest of the pokemon that I did not say, Either some are going up because they have good niches or their viability is being seen or Others are going down considerably, and exploiting their weaknesses to the maximum

 

[Bananers]

As the series is coming to a close soon, I'll give some finals thoughts.


I wasn't originally on board with Zacian-C to S, however, in recent times this thing has been on every, single, team. Coal teams, sun teams, rain teams, Lapras teams, everything. It's honestly super similar to Groudon-P in 2019 and 2016, good on so many archetypes and a dominant offensive force. So yeah, Zacian-C to S.

Ho-Oh is hot D trash, next.

Rillaboom is really meh, to be honest. Other mons do its job better, and the one thing it supposedly can do is be a good check to Kyogre stuff, but it doesn't even do that since it just loses to the mons around Ogre like Torn and Pult. I nom this thing to B.

I still think that P2 is an A+ mon. I already made a post about this but I believe that P2 is on the same splashability level as Incin. It just packs in so many roles. TR counter, damage reducer, attacker, WP proccer, so many things.

That's all, I agree with all other placements. I honestly really liked this series unlike other people, I think it would be my fav if Zacian didn't exist. On to Series 9!