Setting fire(in the rain)- when sun and rain meet


sage of six tabs
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After a month of pointlessness(long story) i made MANY,MANY teams, one notable one being a dual sun/rain team. This hasn't been done often, so i thought, Why not? Here's the team smogonites:

Ninetales (M) @ Wide Lens
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball/solarbeam
- Roar

ninetails forms half of my weather core, with politoed being the other. will-o-wisp is to spread burns, and gets great synergy with roar. ninetails is already kind of bulky, so i went with a more offensive spread. Fire blast gets great power under sun, and a good chance t burn also. energy ball for water typs. could use solarbeam ovr it though, as i have trouble with politod, and most politoed are usually slow as to get the weather in. roar was mentioned above as it has great synergy with WoW, plus i found i had trouble with set-up sweepers, namely volcarona and latias.

Politoed (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass]/ Focus blast
- Encore

This set is amazing. never had a problem with it, as it cover and removes a lot of threats. HP grass gives me coverage against ground/water, who ocould take out ninetails, namely specially defensive gastro. focus blast seems to have more use though, as tyranitar gives me a lot of trouble. hydro pump for amazing power, even in the sun, let alone in the rain. ice beam for drag counter. encore for set-up sweepers like dd gyara, cm latias, and cm reuniculus.

Volcarona (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz

one of the only fire types that has a niche in rain teams, he works great in both sun/rain. switch him into something that is countered by him, like scizor, cm virizion, and others, then quiver dance when the switch. fiery dance over fire blast as it 2hkos ferrothorn and scizor, even in the rain., plus a high chance to boost special attack. bug buzz for main STAB. standard, really. hurricane for when im in the rain. a good counter to choice locked terrakion.

Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald/ Ice beam
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Slack Off /Ice beam

WHAT?? slowbro on a part sun team?Yup. I added him on account of terrakion. terrakion fails to even 3hko slowbro, while slowbro hits back with a supereffective psychic. Scald for burning even in the sun, and fire blast for grass types like tangrowth, who can abuse my sun. slak off for reliable recovery, although ice beam can replace it. i need a haxorus counter, and he gets regenerator and leftes anyway, right?

Jirachi @ Expert Belt
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Thunder
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Iron Head

You got to love this set. coming back from 4th generation, iron head is the crux of this set. fire pawnch to hit those scizor and ferrothorn, even in rain. ice punch ohkos salamence, landrus, and d-nite, though landorus can cause problems. thunder too throw some surprise into the mix, 2hkoing many pokes, while ohkoing skarmory. io head cuz you gotta love those flinches, plus its a great troll move. IMO, every team needs a jirachi.

Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
adamant Nature
- Growth
- Seed Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Earthquake

my only chlorophyll user, he even works well in the rain. seed bomb for great STAB, sleep powde to troll, and eq for fire types that would take advantage of me sun. growth gets double power-ups, so i can set-up faster. venusaur with chlorophyll gets great speed in sun, outspeeding many. plus, like volcarona, he is resistant to about 90% of priority attacks, only neutral to extremespeed and sucker punch, but his defence is already high
Um, you want to know why Dual Weather is barely used?
Because most of the time, the playstyles fuse together horribly.
You are assuming that you will have the correct weather whenever it is needed, which is highly unlikely. Also, and this is extremely important, how do the weathers benefit from each other? This team is struggling with itself. I mean, you mention Rain Volc being viable in both Rain and Sun. This is true, be the main reason for it's creation is to screw over things RAIN has trouble with. Please tell, how does SUN have trouble with a Grass-type? Remember that the RMT forums, while a place of bettering ones team, is also supposed to do so for teams that actually work and are viable. In other words, make sure to work out the major kinks of a team (or start over if screwed the build up) and then, and only then, should you post your team (in a nice format such as this one, which basically means, make your RMT a bit more eye candy). Then people can help you tweak it so that, eventually, you'll have it in it's best form.

Don't forget to read the rules of this sub forum, most of which I explained a bit more detailed.

So either switch this team for another one or (this is unlikely) change this team to a point where you can still execute the main idea, while also doing it without an tremendous amount of support and/or prediction, making it viable.

Good luck.

Edit: Ok, it works. But why would you use the weathers alongside each other? If you could give the reason (and then a bit of how you play), then I can know in what way to help. This looks like Bulky Offense/Offensive Balance, but the dual weather throws me off, as I do not know how it plays. I generally see it a bit hard and frustrating to use, mainly cause there will probably be a lot of times where you would want to abuse Venusaur's Chlorophyll, but can't because you want to make sure that Latios won't use a surprise HP Fire on Jirachi for example. Some weathers do work alongside each other (such as Hail and Sandstorm) and this seems to as well (at least you say so). And I don't get your first sentence, as most Chloro sweepers are also on sun teams (besides the odd Lilligant outside of sun), so how that is relevant as sun's problem is a mystery to me. In that case, the better player wins, as it will probably be a mirror match.

But to start off, you lack a Scarfer, which means if you are out of Sun, your fastest pokemon is a base 100, which is good...was it not for the fact so many CB pokes that make your life hell outpace that. Terrakion stands out as the worst threat, as it even has X-Scissor for Slowbro.
Jirachi neutral to Close Combat? It gets OHKO'd most of the time after a switch-in with a layer of Spikes (which, btw, also allows Slowbro to get 2HKO'd). As such carrying a pokemon that can force it out will make life easier, such as Scizor. A Bulky SD set seems best, as it will help alleviate Sandstorm team issues as well, provided you can take out Rotom-W and scout for HP Fire Celebi. You can always use a CB set if you want to just straight up attack from the get go. Note that you should probably check what move Terrakion will be using with Slowbro, as it can take a X-Scissor and let Regenerator help you should you have taken that attack. Don't do this often, though, as Slowbro will be worn down eventually. Speaking of Scizor, it is also a threat to your team. STAB U-Turn hurts your only counter/check to physical attackers and the ones that do resist it are physically frail AND weak to SR. As such, Forretress or Donphan can both help here, each with it's advantage and disadvantage. Forretress resists Bug and Steel and also has the bulk to survive Superpower. Donphan doesn't boast these resists, but instead, doesn't have a 4x weakness to Fire that's possibly further compounded by Sun, can be more threatening then Forretress with base 120 Attack and STAB Earthquake, along with some revenge killing utility in Ice Shard (though you'll need Salamence and Dragonite to be around 50% or less for it to kill). Both will need to have Rapid Spin, however, as it will help tremendously in surviving attacks from sweepers. However, if you are iffy about changing two pokemon, just use Forretress, as it can check CB Terrakion (tho not as well as Scizor), while helping Slowbro out with Sandstorm teams, as well as Rapid Spin (Which you need on a team with a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock).

I don't know what to replace, so I'll leave that up to you. And also, Veneusaur's highest offensive stat is Sp Attack, so if you really want to have a physical move, go mixed. Chansey will wall you regardless, however, so keep that in mind.

I don't have time to post sets as I'm leaving soon. Please give a threatlist of some sorts so I can get an idea of how you play while it also let's you check how your team fares against other ones.

And, again, good luck.


sage of six tabs
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actually, this team DOES work. just not as well as i thought. and sun can have trouble with grass for one reason: chlorophyll. most grass types will be trying to cover their fire weakness, ergo earthquake.

dual weather doesn't work because people don't know how to play it right. i've played dual before and it worked fine. in fact, it peaked at 1220, a hard feat for most people.

if only i could "make it prettier" but i've tried to put pics in, but it doesn't work. do i have to put image tags?

also, you mention how its clashing with itself, but never tell me how to change it. so, to make yourself useful, could help me out? i put this in the rmt for a reason you know...

edit: so how can i fix the team? if i don't get good rates, preferably full rates, im just going to delete this and post a different dual team, one that works so much better.
Hey man, nice team you got here.
First of all, I must side with everyone else- putting in some pictures would be nice, if you need help with that drop by and leave me a VM.
As with your team, I can see some pretty major threats (especially after battling it xD) my Gyarados was pretty problematic for your team, the DD set in particular, as it can both abuse your own rain and Stone Edge your sun sweepers to death. With Intimidate and its fair Sp. Def, it can tank unboosted hits easily, and then KO back with a STAB waterfall. Your only real answer is Slowbro/Jirachi, the former which can be set up upon and KO'd in rain and the latter which will die from a +2 Waterfall in rain. (if not in rain, it is not a reliable counter, as if Thunder misses, you die) LOL at Encore stopping both my set up sweepers. That won't work well, however, as both my Latias (and any other) and Gyarados outspeed you, so they can just attack when you switch in.
Another thing that will give you boatloads of trouble are sand teams. Ttar is slower than both your weather casters, so naturally should your opponent lead with it Sand will be up. That is a problem, as you have no fighting types/moves. Once again, Slowbro is your best counter to Ttar, but it too will eventually die from repeated Crunches, unless you manage to burn it.
Your team is also very awkwardly balanced, with 4 special attackers, 1 physical attacker, and one mixed attacker. Special walls such as Blissey or Chansey will easily toxic stall your team to death, even more so because your only status moves are paralysis, burn, and sleep.
How can you fix this? Well, you need a powerful fighting type. What fighting type, do you ask? I know how much you love Toxicroak and Scrafty, but those two won't help you much in this situation. I recommend MixApe over Venasaur: it covers your Gyarados weakness with Stone Edge, can fire off powerful Overheats in the sun, and can OHKO Blisseys and Chanseys with Close Combat.
Classic MixApe:
Infernape @ Life Orb
Hasty/Naive Nature, Blaze
252 Atk, 4 Sp Atk, 252 Spe
Stone Edge
Close Combat
Infernape's powerful Close Combats obliterate most pokemon that are weak to fighting- Tyranitar, Blissey, and Chansey. Overheat in the sun deals massive damage to pokemon that don't resist fire, and Infernape, being mixed, does not mind the Sp Atk drop at all. Stone Edge deals massive damage to flying types that resist fire, such as Gyarados, Salamence, or Dragonite for super effective damage. Both Uturn or SR can be used, depending on what your needs are. Uturn hits Lati@s harder than Stone Edge, and helps you keep momentum, but SR can also be used as hazards to knock the sturdy off of Skarmory so Rachi can KO cleanly with Thunder.

That's all I got for now. Good luck with your team. Hope to see you soon!


sage of six tabs
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i started reading, and could i use a support kabutops set? a 4x resistence to fire would help a lot, plus stealth rock and rapid spin help.
Interesting team. I think Starmie > Slowbro would be a good change. It can revenge kill Terrakion and can Rapid Spin. Getting rid of SR is important since you have 2 weaknesses to it, one being 4x weak.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin

I would also use Hidden Power Ice > Ice Punch on Jirachi to hit Gliscor harder and Thunderbolt > Thunder for more reliability.


sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
i would add pictures....but i'm operating from a 3ds -.- my laptop got taken away. so deal with it for now. anyway, i really don't have a problem with gliscor. ice punch 2hkos him, same with hp ice. i think...i'll do some tests on that. i chose thunder over thunderbolt because hes my only thunder abuser and thunder nets me ohkos that bolt wouldn't. namely, skarmory.
Make this your theme song.

On a more serious note, I'd like to see a different item on Ninetales, like Life Orb. Sure, the Wide Lens helps a little with Will-O-Wisp's middling accuracy, but I think you'll find Life Orb's boost to be helpful in a wider range of situations.
We all know how pokemon already look like...
Change wide lens to life orb since either way will o wisp tends to miss and the fact that your using dual weather, which I think is dumb, but I digress, since it can catch teams off guard.
Kudos to you man because I can't get that high using my best team :(


sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
haha, thanks. i'll change the wide lens to life orb. since WoW will be missing anyway, should i change it to hp ice or sunny day, or just make a different ninetails?

hp ice because all dragons wall this set, btw
Personally I'd keep Will-O-Wisp because it destroys physical sweepers, halving their attack. I guess if you're using roar you can get it out of the way, but it's an option to consider.

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