Metagame Shared Power [Leader's Choice]

Darth

Formerly Seraphus
Quickbanning Regenerator as a whole. I will continue to look at Fur Coat / Ice Scales.
seems like an arbitrary ban given that it hardly was the issue the meta has.
Regen didn't change the HO match-up where Dracovish 1shots fur coat max def toxapex, and regen just meant you need trapping moves for your stall sets to ensure the opposing mons can't swap with each other + hazards (with mbounce gone) to punish the regeneration.

To expand on this:
Stall was arguably unfair with Magic Bounce because Magic Bounce made it impossible for a stall mirror to play out. Magic Bounce got banned and suddenly Regenerator does too, without a real chance to see how it plays without Magic Bounce. I managed to squeeze in 2 stall mirrors so far and both were easily won by using less conventional mons with trapping access (Dhelmise' Anchor Shot and Pyukumuku's Block for those who care) to get rid of mons and applying hazard stack with a rapid spinner to punish regenerator swap spam.

For Offense v Stall it's baffling to think Regen would be the issue when all these mons get their defensive stats doubled for free (doubled twice if Fluffy, at no cost if Flash Fire Fluffy or Thick Fat Fluffy) and have their recover moves anyways, at best Regen is now replaced with something dumb like Nat Cure fix status issues right away.

Tl;dr how does banning regen fix anything
 
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seems like an arbitrary ban given that it hardly was the issue the meta has.
Regen didn't change the HO match-up where Dracovish 1shots fur coat max def toxapex, and regen just meant you need trapping moves for your stall sets to ensure the opposing mons can't swap with each other + hazards (with mbounce gone) to punish the regeneration.
Regen was the core issue, allowing for infinite switches. This was the correct ban. Ice scales and fur coat only work so well because every mon can switch out and immediately regain 1/3 of its health. Especially considering how bad both of those donating mons are in standalone matchups. This ban invalidates most if not all stall teams, please do not ban any further abilities, this is all that was needed.

Further explanation since you expanded the op:
Even though the defensive stats are doubled, it now comes with a much higher cost. Consider the mons needed for the flash fluffy core. Persian, moth, bear, and the flash mon all lack their own recovery moves or any semblance of good defensive typing. The other two slots cannot patch up these glaring flaws as well as regen did. There is no combination of 2 or even 3 mons that will work well enough to keep everything healthy, status free, and permit careless switching as regen did. Having to use turns to wish/protect and needing to waste a slot on a natural cure mon takes the edge away from stall, even with double defenses. It will need to be played more strategically and with actual counter play to remain viable. This is not the same case as regen, where switching between 3 mons over and over again can easily win.
 
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Darth

Formerly Seraphus
Regen was the core issue, allowing for infinite switches. This was the correct ban. Ice scales and fur coat only work so well because every mon can switch out and immediately regain 1/3 of its health. Especially considering how bad both of those donating mons are in standalone matchups. This ban invalidates most if not all stall teams, please do not ban any further abilities, this is all that was needed.
This is honestly the funniest thing I've read today.
Alopersian and Frosmoth were never used in the stall match-ups, you realize that right? You never, ever, send them in. The swapping happened between Toxapex (who still recovers off of prankster) and Clefable (who still has recovery aplenty and still gives you unaware). If you had to send in Persian that means you already were in a way too bad position, because even with fur coat Alopersian got 2hko'd by most strong u-turners.

Name me 1 match-up where Alopersian and frosmoth losing their recovery actually matters. Physical offense stack? As if they were living a hit from that. Special boosting? Same deal, Alopersian ain't ever living a special attack.
Stall v stall? If it's so 'infinite' swapping then that would mean that it doesn't matter what mons I use, so I don't see your point there. of course that completely ignores any type of swapping and hazard potential.

Tl;dr banning regen changes nothing to the meta's issues. It doesn't fix stall v HO (makes it even worse imo), does not fix balance being unable to touch tox + filler (bc yes you just still run tox. Run merciless idc), and does not fix stall v stall being a fest of mons that can't touch each other (bc hi immunity is free)
 
This is honestly the funniest thing I've read today.
Alopersian and Frosmoth were never used in the stall match-ups, you realize that right? You never, ever, send them in. The swapping happened between Toxapex (who still recovers off of prankster) and Clefable (who still has recovery aplenty and still gives you unaware). If you had to send in Persian that means you already were in a way too bad position, because even with fur coat Alopersian got 2hko'd by most strong u-turners.

Name me 1 match-up where Alopersian and frosmoth losing their recovery actually matters. Physical offense stack? As if they were living a hit from that. Special boosting? Same deal, Alopersian ain't ever living a special attack.
Stall v stall? If it's so 'infinite' swapping then that would mean that it doesn't matter what mons I use, so I don't see your point there. of course that completely ignores any type of swapping and hazard potential.

Tl;dr banning regen changes nothing to the meta's issues. It doesn't fix stall v HO (makes it even worse imo), does not fix balance being unable to touch tox + filler (bc yes you just still run tox. Run merciless idc), and does not fix stall v stall being a fest of mons that can't touch each other (bc hi immunity is free)
I never mentioned those two mons being the ones actually used in the stall? Even though you actually do send them out once lol. I actually agree with you that they are both pretty useless by themselves as I said. The problem is when you have a fur coat scaled clefable switching out and gaining 1/3 of its health to your fur coat scaled toxapex, also regaining 1/3 of it's health. That's the "infinite" part.
You're also saying that the recovery still happens, as pex gets prankster and clef has multiple options? You do realize that both of those things take either a whole other slot in the case of pex, or the mon actually using a turn to recover, in the case of clef. That is drastically different than just switching and only proves the point that stall now actively needs to use turns and just as importantly PP to recover.
 
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Darth

Formerly Seraphus
I never mentioned those two mons being the ones actually used in the stall? Even though you actually do send them out once lol. I actually agree with you that they are both pretty useless by themselves as I said. The problem is when you have a fur coat scaled clefable switching out and gaining 1/3 of its health to your fur coat scaled toxapex, also regaining 1/3 of it's health. That's the "infinite" part.
You're also saying that the recovery still happens, as pex gets prankster and clef has multiple options? You do realize that both of those things take either a whole other slot in the case of pex, or the mon actually using a turn to recover, in the case of clef. That is drastically different than just switching and only proves the point that stall now actively needs to use turns and just as importantly PP to recover.
As I'm proving on ladder right now, you can still easily recover infinitely ;)
 

Darth

Formerly Seraphus
yo that's rude. I'm still working on it.

Snorlax @ Mago Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Protect
- Substitute

Appletun @ Mago Berry
Ability: Ripen
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Recover
- Protect
- Substitute

Trevenant @ Mago Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Foul Play
- Protect

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Mago Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Darkest Lariat
- Light Screen

Torkoal @ Mago Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Rapid Spin
- Nature Power
- Stealth Rock

Lapras @ Mago Berry
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Whirlpool
- Perish Song
Obviously this team is shut down by Ttar, but the point is we're running stall v stall and stall doesn't bring unnerve mons, they don't have the slots for it (unless you wanna autolose to dracovish and steel spam, fine by me)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1091383789
Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Avalanche
- Toxic
- Recover

Togekiss @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Heal Bell
- Magic Coat

Abomasnow @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Blizzard
- Aurora Veil
- Wood Hammer
- Protect

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Darkest Lariat
- Bulk Up

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Toxic

Glaceon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Wish
 
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Hello everyone I'd like to introduce you the combination of Merciless + Sniper + Corrosion.
You can poison everyone and everyhit is a boosted critical hit if the objective is poisoned.
I'm stilll working on this strategy because it relies too much on get your target poisoned.
 
Well I have a few comments on the meta so far;

1. It’s looking like it’s going to be more fun, balanced, and overall a better meta than previously, and all types of teams look like their working

2. Fur Coat + Ice Scales... idk what to say about them. They’re extremely broken on a ton of teams with unaware that makes it impossible to break through without Mold Breaker but that’s banned for an obviously good reason... I honestly think we should ban them BUT I do see what they add to the meta and can see the opposite argument.

3. Prankster hasn’t been talked about much but I think it’s the final thing that we should look at while designing the meta (and possibly weather later, but idk). Prankster adds the ability for berry stall, basically free healing, set up to be wasted, and you can shut down basically anything due to the prankster mon being a fairy type meaning you have a way to deal with most dark types.

4. Wtf is trace and is it fixed and what is it supposed to do.
 
Snorlax @ Mago Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Protect
- Substitute

Appletun @ Mago Berry
Ability: Ripen
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Recover
- Protect
- Substitute

Trevenant @ Mago Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Foul Play
- Protect

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Mago Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Darkest Lariat
- Light Screen

Torkoal @ Mago Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Rapid Spin
- Nature Power
- Stealth Rock

Lapras @ Mago Berry
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Whirlpool
- Perish Song
Obviously this team is shut down by Ttar, but the point is we're running stall v stall and stall doesn't bring unnerve mons, they don't have the slots for it (unless you wanna autolose to dracovish and steel spam, fine by me)
Your team also gets destroyed by Infiltrator, Skill Link, Sound based moves, and Taunt.
I would recommend replacing Lapras with a Sound Proof user or an Aroma Veil user.
 

Darth

Formerly Seraphus
Your team also gets destroyed by Infiltrator, Skill Link, Sound based moves, and Taunt.
I would recommend replacing Lapras with a Sound Proof user or an Aroma Veil user.
Skill link actually isn't as bad as you'd think. SD skill link deals good damage but so far I haven't lost to it yet. The other 2; yeah.
Tbf my only attempt was to make a team for stall mirror, not for a team that could win consistently.
 

Zneon

Freedom
is a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor
Yo, so the meta has started and already I feel it's incredibly broken from everything I've just witnessed on the ladder, so I'll just go over what I feel is incredibly strong right now.

+

Fur Coat + Ice Scales

I feel that the Regenerator quickban only helped a bit of the unkillable stall thing. But I think that Fur Coat + Ice Scales is just simply a broken and unhealthy combination. As with Fur Coat + Ice Scales + Unaware, or Fur Coat + Ice Scales + Unaware + Dry Skin, it becomes nigh impossible to actually kill the opposing stall team due to being able to shrug off hits so easily and Dry Skin being able to heal off the damage if you use Pelipper on your team, as a result, shit like Toxic is kinda needed if you want to wear down the opposing team if they don't have Heal Bell Clefable, overall this combination is just incredibly silly and I would like to see this go.


Weather

I hope I am not one of few people who find this kinda silly, but Weather is incredibly strong and pretty impactful I feel. If you add Weather + Weather Speedboost Ability, then your weather abuser becomes incredibly powerful and extremely hard to deal with. For example Drought + Chlorophyll makes Darmanitan capable of outspeeding everything and kill them with a CB sun boosted Flare Blitz. Though I think what makes it so incredibly good has to be combining all of this with Tinted Lens, which makes abusers like Crawdaunt, Darmanitan, and Dracovish pretty much unwallable as they are able to kill shit like Pex with their STABs, and any would be switch ins would pretty much blow up from their STAB. So if anything, I would like to see Tinted Lens looked at, but either way, I still feel that Weather is really damn good even without Tinted Lens and I feel could be looked at too.
 
To be completely honest, I have no idea how people are somehow saying Fur Coat is okay without Regen.

The combo of Fur Coat + Fluffy is absurd. Even when stacking things like Steely Spirit, Steelworker, Tough Claws and Adaptability, any contact move does 30% at most, and that's if they aren't in on their actual tanky mons. One is manageable on it's own, but both just skews the advantage into stall's favor way too much, with no counterplay other than powerstacking Sun teams exploiting Fluffy's fire recovery.

With this in mind, I think it's best for the meta as a whole if one of Fur Coat/Fluffy is banned (though I'm leaning toward Fur Coat, since Alolan Persian itself is actually pretty good in it's own right thanks to fast pshots)

Additionally, Chlorophyll + Swift Swim + Sand Rush should definitely be looked at, as the doubled speed coupled with abilities like Sand Force and Adaptability lead to many unwinnable situations. I don't want to necessarily be rid of the actual weather-setting abilities, as that would get rid of a huge facet of teambuilding that isn't inherently broken. These are made worse as Cloud Nine is bugged and doesn't deactivate the effect of weather, meaning the only counterplay is stall or more weather.
 
I can't find anything about swift swim being banned but it does not seem to apply properly - as do most abilities I've tried. Am I doing something wrong or is there a bug - No Guard, Hustle, and Swift swim not applying to any pokemon that don't have the ability?
 
Here are some interesting Cores
Scrappy+Tinted Lens Banned
:Sirfetch’d:/:Pangoro:+:Sigilyph:
Scappy is an excellent ability for Physical Attackers, Special Attackers, and Hazard Removal. Tinted Lens is also useful for turning 1 stage resists into effective neutralities.
One thing that I noticed, however, is that there are no Rock/Steel types in the game, effectively making Normal into an unresisted attacking type, forcing your opponent to rely on sheer bulk alone to tank the strong Normal Attacks.

Possible Teammates:
:Bewear: :Braviary: :Linoone: :Toxtricity: :Kommo-o: :Noivern: pretty much any Rapid Spinner. This is also just Normal Type abusers

Simple (Banned) + Unaware (Banned, making bypassers useless) Bypassers
:Swoobat: + :Necrozma:/:Polteageist:/:Reuniclus:/:Gothitelle: (Competitive)/:Incineroar:/:Corviknight:/:Pangoro:
Simple is an interesting ability here. While it can destroy unprepared teams, teams with Unaware or Prankster+Haze destroy it back.
There isn’t much you can do against Prankster+Haze for most Set Up mons (especially if they have Skuntank, the only Dark type Haze user), there are ways around Unaware.
The most obvious answer to Unaware is Stored Power and Power Trip.
Necrozma and Incineroar are definitely recommended, as Necrozma has its classic Iron Defense+Calm Mind set and can choose between Photon Geyser or Stored Power, while Incineroar provides Intimidate, Flame Charge, and Bulk Up.
-Polteageist is the only Shell Smash user to get Stored Power, and Shell Smash+Simple gets you an instant 260 BP STORED POWER
-Reuniclus is an alternative, but only provides immunity to Powder Moves, Sand, and Hail (as its 2 other abilities are banned), and has Trick Room
-Gothitelle also has a banned ability, but Competitive can add an instant +4 to SpA to compensate for -2 from intimidates, and Goth also gets Cosmic Power.
-Corviknight is always a great Pokemon and have Power Trip, on top of Pressure+Roost. Corviknight also has Agility+Bulk Up, but lacks the STAB on Power Trip and Intimidate allows for safer switches.
-Pangoro is the last StoredTrip user, and only really provides Scrappy, which can tie back to the previous core as well.

No Hustle
:Machamp:/:Golurk:/:Doublade:+:Dracozolt:/:Durant:/:Flapple:
I discussed this before, but this core combo is pretty great.
Unlike Adaptability, Strong Jaws, or other attack boosting abilities, Hustle increases all your Physical Attacks, at the downside of making your moves unreliable.
You know what negates that?
No Guard.
Not only will they benefit each other, but your entire team can use lower accuracy moves with strong effects.
Strong Teammates
:Mew: Alola-Raichu (Sing and Zap Cannon also pretend there is an icon for Raichu there) :Keldeo-Resolute: :Vikavolt: :Conkeldurr: :Gengar: :Venusaur: :Charizard: (Can use Hurricane in Sun) pretty much anything that has less than 100% accuracy on any move

Anti-Weather
:Pincurchin:+ Alolan-Raichu (Banned in combination) (also pretend it is here too)
Weather is a pretty dominant force here. It effectively is permanent and the likes of Venusaur, Darmanitan-Unova, and Dracovish don’t really have any offensive answers since they are always so fast.
The only way you can stop them is either with Cloud Nine (only found on Drampa and is just a solo Pokemon) and with Surge Surf.
Unlike just simply using an alternative weather, Terrains can stack on top of weather.
In this case, you can send out any faster Pokemon, and you don’t have to worry about the weather (unless they have Misty or Psychic Surge)
Alolan Raichu is also great here, as it gets Nasty Plot, is naturally fast, and has Psychic STAB for Venusaur.


Some notable Solo Pokemon
:Tyranitar: Unnerving can break common Berry Teams
:Dragapult: Stops any Prankster+Sub tactics and Screens with Infiltrator
:Drampa: Just removes Weather all together and provides a Grass immunity
:Aromatisse:/:Alcremie: Provides an immunity to Taunt and Encore
:Meltan: The only Magnet Pull user in the game lmao
:Tsareena: Provides immunity to nearly every priority move
 
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I can't find anything about swift swim being banned but it does not seem to apply properly - as do most abilities I've tried. Am I doing something wrong or is there a bug - No Guard, Hustle, and Swift swim not applying to any pokemon that don't have the ability?
It applies, you must send out the ability at least once to apply it to the whole team.
 
ripen + cheek pouch
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1091575993
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1091797316

Grimmsnarl @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 246 HP / 252 Atk / 10 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Darkest Lariat
- Spirit Break

Appletun @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Ripen
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Apple Acid
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Sunny Day

Diggersby @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Toxic
- Body Slam
- Bulk Up
- Substitute

Trevenant @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Sunny Day
- Seed Bomb
- Substitute

Torkoal @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock
- Shell Smash
- Substitute

Steelix @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sunny Day
- Iron Head
- Substitute
 
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Duno if this is good but here i go(no team just an idea I tried with two pokemon)
You have a grimnsnarl right(Or anything with prankster)
You have a Sudowoodo with 0 Iv Spe, 256 Attack 256 Hp and leftovers(With sturdy)
You use dig you either go to 1 health or close to it due to low speed
You use copycat(apparently it works with prankster)
You dig then they attack while you go underground. They attack, you use dig underground.
You use Copycat again
The result is you never getting hit. Only can be damaged by 1 move- Earthquake as well as status moves.
You also can't hit flying types so more balanced
Is this a bug, or just something overlooked, like I said only earthquake can kill it. Or a pokemon somehow slower that you copycat their move.
 
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Duno if this is good but here i go(no team just an idea I tried with two pokemon)
You have a grimnsnarl right(Or anything with prankster)
You have a Sudowoodo with 0 Iv Spe, 256 Attack 256 Hp and leftovers(With sturdy)
You use dig you either go to 1 health or close to it due to low speed
You use copycat(apparently it works with prankster)
You dig then they attack while you go underground. They attack, you use dig underground.
You use Copycat again
The result is you never getting hit. Only can be damaged by 1 move- Earthquake as well as status moves.
You also can't hit flying types so more balanced
Is this a bug, or just something overlooked, like I said only earthquake can kill it. Or a pokemon somehow slower that you copycat their move.
That Strategy has problem other than Flying types, such as No Guard, Taunt, and the fact that you are limited to 16 PP.
But that game me an idea for a fun gimmicky set.
Harvest+Drought+Overcoat+Sturdy on a LC Pokemon with Endeavor.
Trevenant @ Mago Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
Torkoal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
Mandibuzz (F) @ Mago Berry
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
Salandit @ Berry Juice
Ability: Corrosion
Level: 1
EVs: 60 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Torment
- Endure
Shuckle @ Mago Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP
- Knock Off
Sirfetch'd @ Mago Berry
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP
- Defog
- Knock Off
This is primitive, but the idea is to keep Salandit at Max HP when it is switching in so it can Endeavor the opponent, while Endure is a backup strategy for cases where you can’t remove rocks.
 
Does anyone know why when I use Hustle + Compound eyes, I can still miss my moves? (This is with 100% accurate physical damage moves, like Bolt Beak)
 
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Does anyone know why when I use Hustle + Compound eyes, I can still miss my moves? (This is with 100% accurate physical damage moves, like Bolt Beak)
I was going to say something about how you were adding the ability effects instead of multiplying them, but then I actually did the math and

100 * 0.8 * 1.3 = 104

they still shouldn't miss. The only thing I can think of is maybe you hadn't activated Compound Eyes yet? Though with that Cloud Nine glitch in mind, it's possible that you did activate it and the game just didn't notice.
 

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