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Metagame Shared Power
- Thread starter The Immortal
- Start date
I’m assuming it gets reflected before Defiant procs
As much as I want to mess around with Simple in this meta, I really think it should be banned. Before I even add another pokemon, I've got Swoobat and Blastoise. Shell Smash + Simple + White Herb. I don't think there's much that can survive this thing with Water, Ice and Fighting coverage. Sure, there are water absorbers and ghosts can avoid Aura Sphere, but the added coverage of Ice Beam puts this over the top. There are a few other Shell Smasher's, namely Polteageist, that can also abuse the hell out of the Simple boost as well. Definitely think it should at least be looked at.
The problems with Simple are that;
-It’s easily hard countered by a team that has an Unaware user at all. Unless you have Power Trip, a defensive team can easily just negate your entire team. Stored Power is blocked by Dark types and also Power Trip is very skimpy on its users.
-This strategy is also countered by Prankster+Haze combos, which also bypasses StoredTrip.
-Teams that stack boosts with abilities like Guts+Strong Jaws+Adaptability+etc. will just one shot you before you can set up properly.
tl;dr use Clefable.
I know that we have not been able to play Shared Power on the main server yet, but I thought I would start some discussion.
Galarian Darmanitan is normally a pretty scary Pokemon. Having access to essentially a free Choice Band, great coverage, and U-turn to punish switches made it too powerful in SWSH OU.
That coverage and the Dex cut are what set it over the edge, as any bulky Steel or Water type would just be 2HKO’d by Flare Blitz and Earthquake.
But in Shared Power, there Darm-G faces some problems.
-Shared Power allows for easy Immunity/Resists stacking and Fur Coat passing. Pretty much every Steel type can have any combination of Levitate, Flash Fire, and Thick Fat.
—Fur Coat is also a problem for Darmanitan-G since it many of the Pokemon it would barely 2HKO with CB+GT can just easily halve that with just 1 partner. This can also stack with the other immunities/Resistances to make Darmanitan-G easier to deal with.
-The combo of No Guard+Hustle exists. This combination, while requires 2 Pokemon, will give the same boost while making strong moves like Dynamic Punch or Sing always hit on top of letting you freely choose your moves.
—The choice lock Gorilla Tactics brings also heavily limits team building. Any supportive Pokemon you have want (especially Defoggers, since Darm is weak to Rocks and HDBs is pretty bad on it). It also greatly limits Special Attackers as they gain nothing from Gorilla Tactics and lose the ability to use their moves freely, while Hustle Guard will make their moves 100% accurate.
—-Having your entire team be choice locked also means forcing switches is much easier, especially with so many immunities and defensive buffs you can give your team.
——There is also no Magic Guard users to use at all and the Magic Bounce users are all Defensive or Special Attackers.
However:
-It would give one other ability full assault teams that don’t care about the drawback of Choice Lock.
What do you guys think?
Edit: Basically, disregard this entire post. It may have been a good idea then, but with so much banned, it probably isn’t. Especially now that Guts is banned.
Galarian Darmanitan is normally a pretty scary Pokemon. Having access to essentially a free Choice Band, great coverage, and U-turn to punish switches made it too powerful in SWSH OU.
That coverage and the Dex cut are what set it over the edge, as any bulky Steel or Water type would just be 2HKO’d by Flare Blitz and Earthquake.
But in Shared Power, there Darm-G faces some problems.
-Shared Power allows for easy Immunity/Resists stacking and Fur Coat passing. Pretty much every Steel type can have any combination of Levitate, Flash Fire, and Thick Fat.
—Fur Coat is also a problem for Darmanitan-G since it many of the Pokemon it would barely 2HKO with CB+GT can just easily halve that with just 1 partner. This can also stack with the other immunities/Resistances to make Darmanitan-G easier to deal with.
-The combo of No Guard+Hustle exists. This combination, while requires 2 Pokemon, will give the same boost while making strong moves like Dynamic Punch or Sing always hit on top of letting you freely choose your moves.
—The choice lock Gorilla Tactics brings also heavily limits team building. Any supportive Pokemon you have want (especially Defoggers, since Darm is weak to Rocks and HDBs is pretty bad on it). It also greatly limits Special Attackers as they gain nothing from Gorilla Tactics and lose the ability to use their moves freely, while Hustle Guard will make their moves 100% accurate.
—-Having your entire team be choice locked also means forcing switches is much easier, especially with so many immunities and defensive buffs you can give your team.
——There is also no Magic Guard users to use at all and the Magic Bounce users are all Defensive or Special Attackers.
However:
-It would give one other ability full assault teams that don’t care about the drawback of Choice Lock.
What do you guys think?
Edit: Basically, disregard this entire post. It may have been a good idea then, but with so much banned, it probably isn’t. Especially now that Guts is banned.
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While I do think you prove a rather well point, the question is how the new system work vs. the old one. See, with the old system where all the abilities are active at once, sure it's kinda bad. But in this new system, where the ability isn't active until the Pokemon is switched in, you can hold onto Darm-G in the back until your defoggers and so on are fainted. Basically, allowing it to where you can put other 'mons to remove your resists, then switch in Darm to wreck everything. I've seen a lot of teams and people treat this like the previous Shared Power, but with this new "switch-in nerf", it kills some older team builds and allows new teams to come to light. Like the treatment of a Choice Item ability.I know that we have not been able to play Shared Power on the main server yet, but I thought I would start some discussion.
Galarian Darmanitan is normally a pretty scary Pokemon. Having access to essentially a free Choice Band, great coverage, and U-turn to punish switches made it too powerful in SWSH OU.
That coverage and the Dex cut are what set it over the edge, as any bulky Steel or Water type would just be 2HKO’d by Flare Blitz and Earthquake.
But in Shared Power, there Darm-G faces some problems.
-Shared Power allows for easy Immunity/Resists stacking and Fur Coat passing. Pretty much every Steel type can have any combination of Levitate, Flash Fire, and Thick Fat.
—Fur Coat is also a problem for Darmanitan-G since it many of the Pokemon it would barely 2HKO with CB+GT can just easily halve that with just 1 partner. This can also stack with the other immunities/Resistances to make Darmanitan-G easier to deal with.
-The combo of No Guard+Hustle exists. This combination, while requires 2 Pokemon, will give the same boost while making strong moves like Dynamic Punch or Sing always hit on top of letting you freely choose your moves.
—The choice lock Gorilla Tactics brings also heavily limits team building. Any supportive Pokemon you have want (especially Defoggers, since Darm is weak to Rocks and HDBs is pretty bad on it). It also greatly limits Special Attackers as they gain nothing from Gorilla Tactics and lose the ability to use their moves freely, while Hustle Guard will make their moves 100% accurate.
—-Having your entire team be choice locked also means forcing switches is much easier, especially with so many immunities and defensive buffs you can give your team.
——There is also no Magic Guard users to use at all and the Magic Bounce users are all Defensive or Special Attackers.
However:
-It would give one other ability full assault teams that don’t care about the drawback of Choice Lock.
What do you guys think?
That is true. You can just keep Darmanitan-G in the back, which would alleviate that problem, but that problem still exists and using Darmanitan-G exclusively for the late game is the opposite of how you should use it.
You would be wasting a great pressure tool and early KOs, and you are more likely to be locked into a move that can’t clean the game up. You would also be wasting so much power for your teammates.
That isn’t to say Darmanitan-G wouldn’t be strong or that keeping it off the field for your support isn’t valid either.
I would like to see Darm-G be tested for Shared Power.
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
I think Trace might have a bit of a cosmetic bug. Don’t think it affects the battle at all, but seeing
every turn can get kind of annoying.
every turn can get kind of annoying.
Please ban Emergency Exit and Wimp Out, it leads to stupid infinite battles if setup properly and nobody enjoys that (except me).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1091182721
The Immortal tagging so you see this
Shoutouts SectoniaServant for testing
EDIT: This is now patched
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1091182721
The Immortal tagging so you see this
Shoutouts SectoniaServant for testing
EDIT: This is now patched
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Just ban regen, it makes stall teams incredibly annoying and the wimp out stat would become invalid, also regen basically makes it impossible for stall teams to beat other stall teams as both teams just infinitely switch until one player just gets over it and forfeits on turn 500 something
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The combination of Regenerator + Emergency Exit and Regenerator + Wimp Out are now banned.
Baton Pass should be banned and was just overlooked on the banlist.
Quickbanning Magic Bounce. Similar to Magic Guard, Magic Bounce takes away many of the competitive elements from battles, such as hazards and status moves, with no means of countering it in SP.
Baton Pass should be banned and was just overlooked on the banlist.
Quickbanning Magic Bounce. Similar to Magic Guard, Magic Bounce takes away many of the competitive elements from battles, such as hazards and status moves, with no means of countering it in SP.
Cloud Nine doesn't seem to work properly as of right now. As seen in this battle there are numerous instances where Chlorophyll still activated.
Heeeellllllllll no. One of the reasons Shared Power crashed and burned last gen is because it broke its own rules by doing precisely this: "banning" abilities by restricting their ability to be shared. To understand why this is considered "breaking its own rules", imagine modding the game to play an OM on an actual cartridge. You have the alteration, like "anyone can use any mega stone", or "all Pokemon learn all the moves of their type", or in this case, "abilities are shared across all party members". In competitive matches on these hypothetical modded cartridges, bans play out like bans in vanilla; as gentlemen's agreements. You agree to not use Gengarite, you agree not to use Extreme Speed on non-native users, you agree not to use Mold Breaker. Allowing Pokemon to use Mold Breaker without sharing it with the rest of the team would require going into the mod's code and changing it to specifically exclude Mold Breaker from the sharing.
I really don’t see the reason Fur Coat and Ice Scales are allowed. Especially combined, it makes stall basically impossible to beat for most teams. Boosting isn’t an option as Unaware is sure to be ran on stall and Power Trip/Shared Power aren’t usually enough to get the job done. Especially if Mold Breaker is left banned I don’t see any feasible way to beat well built stall. This tier will quickly become a stally mess and I don’t want to run Salazzle semi-stall just to avoid being completly unable to touch stall. Using Persian-A and Frosmoth is not nearly big enough a trade off for taking half from all types of damage.
Edit: Natural Cure, Oblivious, Unaware, Fur Coat, and Ice Scales seem like an unbeatable combo
Edit: Natural Cure, Oblivious, Unaware, Fur Coat, and Ice Scales seem like an unbeatable combo
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I'm not entirely sure if Fur Coat/Fluffy + Ice Scales should be banned as opposed to Regenerator. Sure, the aforementioned trio makes stall really hard to break, but the ability for any Pokemon to just switch and instantly get back 1/3 of their HP on top of that I think is what makes it overbearing. Regenerator makes it much harder to brute force past any Pokemon on stall, since if you aren't KOing a Pokemon outright, they'll easily be able to pivot in several times throughout the match later provided the opponent is competent. Combine this with the backbreaking PP stalling capabilities of Pressure + Unaware and these Pokemon become almost impossible to kill. Thus, I think Regenerator should be quickbanned, while letting Fur Coat/Fluffy/Ice Scales linger around a bit since I'm not entirely sure that they're broken.
On another note, I had a fun time playing with this team that got me into the Top 10 (it's only day 1, but still quite decent nonetheless).
This team was built around a couple cool combos I found whilst laddering with stall. For one, Dracozolt with No Guard + Hustle (and Adapatability) hits incredibly hard, and with Sand Rush + Sand Stream, is able to outspeed just about anything outside of Simple + Speed Boost teams. You could feasibly run Adamant on it but I chose Jolly for other Dracos (just in case). Most of the time, it wouldn't have mattered if I was Adamant anyway. Dracozolt is really good at beating stall teams that lack a ground-type such as Quagsire or Hippowdon (or a PhysDef Kommo-o), since Bolt Beak's damage output is simply ludicrous. Doublade's EVs could definitely be optimized, but I just threw this mon together since it's the only viable No Guard mon we have. I'm running Toxic over SD because I'm defeatest and I like trying to Poison things on stall (and SD doesn't really matter except giving me more PP anyways). SD is very easy to fit though. I went with Sand as my weather of choice since it and Hail are the only weathers that can break Sashes/Sturdies, but I chose Sand over Hail because Drill is broken (and also provides hazard removal, yay). T-Tars EVs let it take 5 Night Shades at full HP and it creeps any base 60 mons that are trying to creep it, which is cool. More speed is also feasible to run, but I find the bulk to have come in handy on numerous occasions. Crawdaunt is great under sand, especially with Hustle. I went Jolly on mine in order to snipe other Crawdaunts, which seem to be everywhere in this meta. Four attacks Daunt is incredibly difficult for many teams to switch into. Lapras was added only for Water Absorb. I definitely could have gone with a better Water Absorb/Storm Drain mon (Seis or Gastro probably), but Lapras was neat since it could Perish Trap some things on occasion. It's definitely the weakest link and most replaceable, but the role of a water absorber on this team has been invaluable.
On another note, I had a fun time playing with this team that got me into the Top 10 (it's only day 1, but still quite decent nonetheless).
This team was built around a couple cool combos I found whilst laddering with stall. For one, Dracozolt with No Guard + Hustle (and Adapatability) hits incredibly hard, and with Sand Rush + Sand Stream, is able to outspeed just about anything outside of Simple + Speed Boost teams. You could feasibly run Adamant on it but I chose Jolly for other Dracos (just in case). Most of the time, it wouldn't have mattered if I was Adamant anyway. Dracozolt is really good at beating stall teams that lack a ground-type such as Quagsire or Hippowdon (or a PhysDef Kommo-o), since Bolt Beak's damage output is simply ludicrous. Doublade's EVs could definitely be optimized, but I just threw this mon together since it's the only viable No Guard mon we have. I'm running Toxic over SD because I'm defeatest and I like trying to Poison things on stall (and SD doesn't really matter except giving me more PP anyways). SD is very easy to fit though. I went with Sand as my weather of choice since it and Hail are the only weathers that can break Sashes/Sturdies, but I chose Sand over Hail because Drill is broken (and also provides hazard removal, yay). T-Tars EVs let it take 5 Night Shades at full HP and it creeps any base 60 mons that are trying to creep it, which is cool. More speed is also feasible to run, but I find the bulk to have come in handy on numerous occasions. Crawdaunt is great under sand, especially with Hustle. I went Jolly on mine in order to snipe other Crawdaunts, which seem to be everywhere in this meta. Four attacks Daunt is incredibly difficult for many teams to switch into. Lapras was added only for Water Absorb. I definitely could have gone with a better Water Absorb/Storm Drain mon (Seis or Gastro probably), but Lapras was neat since it could Perish Trap some things on occasion. It's definitely the weakest link and most replaceable, but the role of a water absorber on this team has been invaluable.
Totally agree with a ban on regen as I said before replying to pidgeons post it also makes stall teams unable to beat other stall teams as the both teams are unable to damage each other and just infinitely switch until someone goes Im not going to spend all day doing this and forfeitsI'm not entirely sure if Fur Coat/Fluffy + Ice Scales should be banned as opposed to Regenerator. Sure, the aforementioned trio makes stall really hard to break, but the ability for any Pokemon to just switch and instantly get back 1/3 of their HP on top of that I think is what makes it overbearing. Regenerator makes it much harder to brute force past any Pokemon on stall, since if you aren't KOing a Pokemon outright, they'll easily be able to pivot in several times throughout the match later provided the opponent is competent. Combine this with the backbreaking PP stalling capabilities of Pressure + Unaware and these Pokemon become almost impossible to kill. Thus, I think Regenerator should be quickbanned, while letting Fur Coat/Fluffy/Ice Scales linger around a bit since I'm not entirely sure that they're broken.
On another note, I had a fun time playing with this team that got me into the Top 10 (it's only day 1, but still quite decent nonetheless).
This team was built around a couple cool combos I found whilst laddering with stall. For one, Dracozolt with No Guard + Hustle (and Adapatability) hits incredibly hard, and with Sand Rush + Sand Stream, is able to outspeed just about anything outside of Simple + Speed Boost teams. You could feasibly run Adamant on it but I chose Jolly for other Dracos (just in case). Most of the time, it wouldn't have mattered if I was Adamant anyway. Dracozolt is really good at beating stall teams that lack a ground-type such as Quagsire or Hippowdon (or a PhysDef Kommo-o), since Bolt Beak's damage output is simply ludicrous. Doublade's EVs could definitely be optimized, but I just threw this mon together since it's the only viable No Guard mon we have. I'm running Toxic over SD because I'm defeatest and I like trying to Poison things on stall (and SD doesn't really matter except giving me more PP anyways). SD is very easy to fit though. I went with Sand as my weather of choice since it and Hail are the only weathers that can break Sashes/Sturdies, but I chose Sand over Hail because Drill is broken (and also provides hazard removal, yay). T-Tars EVs let it take 5 Night Shades at full HP and it creeps any base 60 mons that are trying to creep it, which is cool. More speed is also feasible to run, but I find the bulk to have come in handy on numerous occasions. Crawdaunt is great under sand, especially with Hustle. I went Jolly on mine in order to snipe other Crawdaunts, which seem to be everywhere in this meta. Four attacks Daunt is incredibly difficult for many teams to switch into. Lapras was added only for Water Absorb. I definitely could have gone with a better Water Absorb/Storm Drain mon (Seis or Gastro probably), but Lapras was neat since it could Perish Trap some things on occasion. It's definitely the weakest link and most replaceable, but the role of a water absorber on this team has been invaluable.
Regen is not the whole issue. The issue is Fur Coat and Ice Scales. W/ Natural Cure it becomes impossible to have any real damage on a team. Regen is annoying and makes stall v stall impossible so that should also be rid off. Fur Coat and Fluffy stack as well and throwing on a Flash Fire mon completely invalidates physical mons when all of your mons have x4 defense. This completely invalidates physical mons and Ice Scales isn’t far behind, special mons are generally worse in this tier as there isn’t nearly as many options. I’d like to see Fur Coat, Ice Scales, and Regen banned. Breaking Fur Coat + Fluffy is not feasible and abilties such as Intimidate and Unaware don’t help, Fur Coat is probably fine on its own as it basically requires you to run a Flash Fire mon.
It’s been nice knowing you broken stall, but yes regenerator makes this combination super obnoxious and every play little to no risk. It also makes stall vs stall literally unwinnable so. Yeah just ban regen.
I do think that fur coat / ice scales should say though because otherwise the tough claws hustle adaptability teams or whatever will become basically unmanageable.
I’m looking at you, durant.
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Ladies, Gentleman and Non-Binary Folks
I am proud to present the current meta:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1091299206
I am proud to present the current meta:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1091299206
Yep stall v stall is basically a tie everytime since you can just switch spam and alot of offense is invalidated by Furcoat+Icescales+Regen+Unaware
Quickbanning Regenerator as a whole. I will continue to look at Fur Coat / Ice Scales.