VGC Shedinja Squad (2nd In Game Team)

#1
Hey guys! I really appreciate what you all did to help me with my Sky Drop + Machamp Team, and in the end, it really put in a ton of work on the Battle Spot ladder. Anyhow, I've got another squad that I'm anxious to breed into my copy of USUM, and from what I've tested, it has the perfect mix of functionality and enjoyability. The win con is usually to break walls with Koko + Lando, and to allow Gyarados to set up and win. Let's get into the team:



Shedinja @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def
- Shadow Claw
- Ally Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

This is obviously the pokemon that I wanted to craft a team around. Shedinja with Safety Goggles is very hard to take down, especially when it is switching back and forth with Ally Switch. Shadow Claw is Shedinja's best move, and can do quite a bit with 90 Base Attack. It can 2HKO most pokemon weak to it, bar Mega Metagross and a few others. Will-O is just in case you can convince the opponent to over predict and not kill shedinja, and bam, they now have a crippled attacker, which really helps out the other members of the squad. The reason I ran Hasty over Jolly with 0 Defense IVs is to give P2 or other Download users an Attack Boost instead of a Special Attack boost. Whenever Shedinja is on the field, your opponent has to call a 50/50, because you can swap positions to avoid dying, Protect, or even go for a Will-O or Shadow Claw. Max Speed can outpace uninvested Heatran and Mega Venusaur and speed tie with uninvested Milotic.

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 188 Atk / 4 Def / 28 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Protect

I was looking through possible Pokemon that could work with Shedinja, and I came across this monster. Its dual Stab AT LEAST 2HKOs almost anything with a Dragon Dance up. Its typing also works perfectly with Shedinja and its Ally Switch. It resists Ghost, Fire and Dark, and takes little damage from Knock off or Rock Slide. Meanwhile, Shedinja can easily soak up Fairy, Electric, Fighting, Bug & Grass types hits. The HP and SpDef EVs are to take a Thunderbolt from a Tapu Koko in Terrain without LO or Specs. The Speed is to outpace Adamant Landorus-Therian and Base 80 Pokemon, and the rest into Attack to hit as hard as possible. 188 Attack is a perfect amount, as a +1 Crunch against Amoonguss does typically between 60 and 75 percent. This means that most of the time, it will 2HKO regardless of Sitrus Berry, and it will not trigger a 50% Berry. This is my win con, so preserving it or playing mind games with Shedinja and Amoonguss is very important.

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Honestly, Tapu Koko is such a strong Pokemon in the VGC meta game, it is very hard to not put it on a team. This thing can score KOs on so many pokemon, and can open doors for Gyarados to finish the game. It is by far the team's best offensive check to Mega Zard Y and Mega Salamence, as well as bulky Waters such as Tapu Fini. Dazzling Gleam and HP Ice are standard for dragons and Lando-T, and it doesn't need Grass Knot because Gastrodon and Mega Swampert aren't too threatening to the team.

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 240 HP / 172 Def / 96 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Rage Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Nature Power
- Protect

If I don't bring Shedinja to a match, my Switch-ins to opposing Kokos are very limited. This is mainly why Amoonguss is on the team. It has a standard Smogon EV spread, which works well enough. I prefer Sludge Bomb over Giga Drain because this is meant to check Tapus more than other pokemon. Nature Power can become Thunderbolt, Tri Attack, Energy Ball, Psychic or Moonblast, which can all become a very surprising way of 2HKOing opposing mons such as Gyarados, other Amoonguss, Hydreigon, etc. Rage Powder is another way to guarantee a Dragon Dance with Gyarados, or to get a hit off with another breaker. Honestly, this is the Pokemon I brought the least to my test matches, and I wouldn't be sad if there was a better option that you guys recommend.

Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 172 Atk / 28 Def / 36 SpD / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch

At this point of team builidng, I saw a gaping defensive weakness to Charizard Y. I was deciding between Heatran and this, but in the end, Incineroar fit the team better. It gives me Fake Out, which is great for scouting as well as giving Gyarados set up.It can also hit Cresselia harder than Heatran can, and Knock off is overall a great move. Drain Punch can hit Tyranitar and Heatran for better Damage than Knock or Flare Blitz. The Speed investment is to outspeed 12 Speed Tyranitar and Celesteela, and the HP and defenses are to live hits from the likes of TTar, Charizard Y, Ludicolo, and Landorus-T.

Landorus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 28 Def / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fly
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect

I really don't like Landorus-Therian, as it is just too good in any meta, but I really didn't have a choice on this team. There are two big weaknesses that this set can help against. Excadrill, with its 3 attacks set, can run through my entire team in Sand. If I don't bring Incineroar, Amoonguss also just sits in front of my breakers. Landorus-T does a very good job of taking care of these threats. Rock slide is for the likes of Mega Zard, Mega Mence, Volcarona, etc. Z-Fly just destroys so many Pokemon, but If the enemy team has a Bulu or an Amoonguss, that's my primary targets in almost any situation. Earthquake is also very spammable when I click Protect, or if I have a non-Mega Gyarados / Shedinja on the field.


Team's biggest weaknesses:

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Mega Salamence can be a very situational threat, depending on the set. Landorus deals with a D-Dance + Double Edge set, but if it's a specially biased set with Hyper Voice, there is a very good chance that I lose. My only way to deal with it is to offensively scare it with Koko's HP Ice, but then a D-Dance variant could outspeed at +1 and almost kill with Double Edge. What's more, Hyper Voice doesn't care if I use Shedinja to switch around due to it being a spread move.

Volcarona is similar in that Heat wave doesn't care about Shedinja, but it really only becomes scary if it gets a boost. As long as I keep pressure up with Koko, Landorus, and Gyarados, I should be fine.

Ferrothorn has the same problem that Amoonguss did, but Flyinium Z doesn't counter it. Basically, I have to bring Incineroar every time I see it, or else I get walled out. Ferrothorn + Rain is especially problematic, because Incineroar cannot break it as easy, and it is scared out be rain sweepers. Offensively, Ferrothorn is not that big of a problem, because Shedinja walls it and can burn it if it lacks Knock Off. Nothing on the team takes much damage from it, except for Koko being hit with Gyro Ball or Gyarados with Power Whip.

As I said above, I really like how this team works, and Shedinja is surprisingly useful in most of my games. Amoonguss was by far brought the least, but it has its purposes. If you guys could see some way to successfully deal with these threats while keeping the team somewhat intact, that would be fantastic. This should go without saying, but DO NOT RECOMMEND REMOVING SHEDINJA. It is why I built the team in the first place, so taking it off would ruin the whole team's dynamic. Thanks everyone!
 
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#2
Hi again SelfDestruct0r! I think this team is actually pretty cool; I originally clicked the title with the intention of writing a long essay about how Shedinja is a suboptimal Pokemon and you should really remove it. Well, I tried the team out for myself in a couple dozen battles, and I'm surprised that Shedinja wasn't completely useless! (I still think it's a suboptimal Pokemon in general, but it's not that bad I guess, haha.) Anyway, I think the team actually works surprisingly well, but there's a few minor things I'd suggest that could potentially aid your matchups, especially against the threats you mentioned.

I'll start with Landorus-T: I think Flyinium-Z is cool, but this team would really benefit from using Assault Vest Landorus-T, which allows it to more easily switch into a lot of the threats you just mentioned and immediately threaten them. For example, regular Landorus-T has to be careful about switching into a Salamence Hyper Voice because that does like 40%, or a Volcarona which might QD up and then deal serious damage with Heat Wave. The spare Z-move could go onto Tapu Koko—I think Choice Specs is a bit too restrictive to play for my liking and HP Ice isn't really worth the moveslot since the team isn't particularly weak to Landorus-T (while Salamence is downed by Gigavolt Havoc).

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 68 HP / 172 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb / Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn

I've left a few things slashed in on the set but my personal preferences are the ones in front. I think Rock Tomb is a really interesting option here because it not only gets around Wide Guard, but also lets Landorus-T act as a form of speed control—for example, it can slow down opposing DD Salamence while your Gyarados dances up to outpace it. That, and it does more damage than Rock Slide (lol). This set also notably gets Superpower so that you can actually have a good way to damage Ferrothorn!

Here's some relevant calculations:
  • 252+ SpA Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 68 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 140-168 (80.9 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • +1 252 SpA Volcarona Heat Wave vs. 68 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 73-87 (42.1 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 68 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 144-172 (83.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 68 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 51-61 (29.4 - 35.2%) -- 18.1% chance to 3HKO
Oh, and here's a Tapu Koko set. Warning: Dazzling Gleam is really, really weak without a Life Orb, you might even want to consider using Taunt over that.

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam / Taunt
- Volt Switch / Taunt
- Protect

Just a few more minor optimisations, then:
  • Incineroar: Low Kick should be used over Drain Punch. I don't think the HP recovery is super important since the only Pokemon you're mainly going to be using a Fighting-type move on is Tyranitar. Low Kick guarantees a KO on most relevant Tyranitar sets, while Drain Punch doesn't come close. I think this guaranteed OHKO is a lot more valuable than minor HP recovery from a move you'll almost never use anyway:
    • 172+ Atk Incineroar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 184-220 (104.5 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 172+ Atk Incineroar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 240-284 (115.9 - 137.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 172+ Atk Incineroar Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 116-140 (65.9 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • 172+ Atk Incineroar Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 152-180 (73.4 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • Amoonguss: I appreciate that Nature Power is a neat tech and can let Amoonguss not be completely passive, but Spore is probably still the way to go. Sludge Bomb does a good enough job chipping Pokemon for Gyarados to clean up, and with the rate at which Terrains switch around in a typical battle, Nature Power isn't a super reliable move. Meanwhile, Spore really helps with your Trick Room matchup, which can be pretty precarious since none of the Pokemon on your team really want to switch in and take even chip damage.
Summary:
  • Landorus-T: Flyinium Z → Assault Vest
  • Tapu Koko: Choice Specs → Electrium Z
  • Incineroar: Drain Punch → Low Kick
  • Amoonguss: Nature Power → Spore
Overall a really cool team and I like the way you've built around Shedinja. For the record, I think a good Pokemon that could fit over the Shedinja slot is Cresselia, which mirrors its immunities with its sheer bulk, can perform Ally Switches a little more consistently, and also gives you a decent way to nail Landorus-T and Salamence. If you're ever interested in dropping Shedinja for Cress, I've attached a sample set you can use which got my friend to Top 4 in the Oceania IC with a team very similar to yours (Lando-T / Incineroar / Mega Gyara / Tapu Koko + Cress / Tsareena over your Shedinja / Amoonguss).

Cresselia (F) @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock / Ally Switch
- Ice Beam
- Icy Wind
- Trick Room
  • Ice Beam OHKOs most non-AV Landorus-T
  • Ice Beam + Icy Wind to jointly KO most AV Landorus-T
  • Outruns Jolly Landorus-T after 1 Icy Wind
Good luck with the team!
 
#3
Hi again SelfDestruct0r! I think this team is actually pretty cool; I originally clicked the title with the intention of writing a long essay about how Shedinja is a suboptimal Pokemon and you should really remove it. Well, I tried the team out for myself in a couple dozen battles, and I'm surprised that Shedinja wasn't completely useless! (I still think it's a suboptimal Pokemon in general, but it's not that bad I guess, haha.) Anyway, I think the team actually works surprisingly well, but there's a few minor things I'd suggest that could potentially aid your matchups, especially against the threats you mentioned.

I'll start with Landorus-T: I think Flyinium-Z is cool, but this team would really benefit from using Assault Vest Landorus-T, which allows it to more easily switch into a lot of the threats you just mentioned and immediately threaten them. For example, regular Landorus-T has to be careful about switching into a Salamence Hyper Voice because that does like 40%, or a Volcarona which might QD up and then deal serious damage with Heat Wave. The spare Z-move could go onto Tapu Koko—I think Choice Specs is a bit too restrictive to play for my liking and HP Ice isn't really worth the moveslot since the team isn't particularly weak to Landorus-T (while Salamence is downed by Gigavolt Havoc).

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 68 HP / 172 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb / Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn

I've left a few things slashed in on the set but my personal preferences are the ones in front. I think Rock Tomb is a really interesting option here because it not only gets around Wide Guard, but also lets Landorus-T act as a form of speed control—for example, it can slow down opposing DD Salamence while your Gyarados dances up to outpace it. That, and it does more damage than Rock Slide (lol). This set also notably gets Superpower so that you can actually have a good way to damage Ferrothorn!

Here's some relevant calculations:
  • 252+ SpA Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 68 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 140-168 (80.9 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • +1 252 SpA Volcarona Heat Wave vs. 68 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 73-87 (42.1 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 68 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 144-172 (83.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 68 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 51-61 (29.4 - 35.2%) -- 18.1% chance to 3HKO
Oh, and here's a Tapu Koko set. Warning: Dazzling Gleam is really, really weak without a Life Orb, you might even want to consider using Taunt over that.

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam / Taunt
- Volt Switch / Taunt
- Protect

Just a few more minor optimisations, then:
  • Incineroar: Low Kick should be used over Drain Punch. I don't think the HP recovery is super important since the only Pokemon you're mainly going to be using a Fighting-type move on is Tyranitar. Low Kick guarantees a KO on most relevant Tyranitar sets, while Drain Punch doesn't come close. I think this guaranteed OHKO is a lot more valuable than minor HP recovery from a move you'll almost never use anyway:
    • 172+ Atk Incineroar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 184-220 (104.5 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 172+ Atk Incineroar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 240-284 (115.9 - 137.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • 172+ Atk Incineroar Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 116-140 (65.9 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • 172+ Atk Incineroar Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 152-180 (73.4 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • Amoonguss: I appreciate that Nature Power is a neat tech and can let Amoonguss not be completely passive, but Spore is probably still the way to go. Sludge Bomb does a good enough job chipping Pokemon for Gyarados to clean up, and with the rate at which Terrains switch around in a typical battle, Nature Power isn't a super reliable move. Meanwhile, Spore really helps with your Trick Room matchup, which can be pretty precarious since none of the Pokemon on your team really want to switch in and take even chip damage.
Summary:
  • Landorus-T: Flyinium Z → Assault Vest
  • Tapu Koko: Choice Specs → Electrium Z
  • Incineroar: Drain Punch → Low Kick
  • Amoonguss: Nature Power → Spore
Overall a really cool team and I like the way you've built around Shedinja. For the record, I think a good Pokemon that could fit over the Shedinja slot is Cresselia, which mirrors its immunities with its sheer bulk, can perform Ally Switches a little more consistently, and also gives you a decent way to nail Landorus-T and Salamence. If you're ever interested in dropping Shedinja for Cress, I've attached a sample set you can use which got my friend to Top 4 in the Oceania IC with a team very similar to yours (Lando-T / Incineroar / Mega Gyara / Tapu Koko + Cress / Tsareena over your Shedinja / Amoonguss).

Cresselia (F) @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock / Ally Switch
- Ice Beam
- Icy Wind
- Trick Room
  • Ice Beam OHKOs most non-AV Landorus-T
  • Ice Beam + Icy Wind to jointly KO most AV Landorus-T
  • Outruns Jolly Landorus-T after 1 Icy Wind
Good luck with the team!
Thanks! I definitely see how these changes can really help my team in a pinch. To be honest, I completely forgot about Spore on Amoonguss, so thanks for reminding me. I like the recommendation of Cress, but I think I'll keep Shedinja for the moment and see how it goes. However, how can I have an AV on Landorus if Incineroar already has one? Do you have another item recommendation for either one?
 

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#4
Thanks! I definitely see how these changes can really help my team in a pinch. To be honest, I completely forgot about Spore on Amoonguss, so thanks for reminding me. I like the recommendation of Cress, but I think I'll keep Shedinja for the moment and see how it goes. However, how can I have an AV on Landorus if Incineroar already has one? Do you have another item recommendation for either one?
Oh, yeah, somehow slipped my mind that Incineroar had the AV lol. In that case I think you could consider trying an Incinium Z on Incineroar, which would let it take on a more offensive role—some nice side effects this causes are that you can OHKO Mega Metagross and Aegislash. I presume a pinch berry would also be a viable option for a bulky build on Incineroar, though I've never used one so I'm not super sure about how it plays. In terms of EV spreads I think Incineroar EV spreads are generally fairly generic so yours probably works for the Incinium Z and pinch berry sets too.
 
#5
Oh, yeah, somehow slipped my mind that Incineroar had the AV lol. In that case I think you could consider trying an Incinium Z on Incineroar, which would let it take on a more offensive role—some nice side effects this causes are that you can OHKO Mega Metagross and Aegislash. I presume a pinch berry would also be a viable option for a bulky build on Incineroar, though I've never used one so I'm not super sure about how it plays. In terms of EV spreads I think Incineroar EV spreads are generally fairly generic so yours probably works for the Incinium Z and pinch berry sets too.
I don't like the idea of wasting an item for a second z crystal, so I think I'll try the Figy 50% berry. Thanks for the suggestion!
 

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