Mega Evolutions, like regular evolutions, were designed to be better than their regular counterparts. Even some already great Pokemon got Megas. However, with mega evolution, some Pokemon's niches change as well. Take Gengar for example. He got dressed up with some buffed, well, everything! Better bulk, better Special Attack and Speed, and even got Shadow Tag, often considered the best ability in the game. Undoubtedly he will be banned to ubers. But what about normal Gengar? He doesnt have the tools to be banned to ubers, but he will likely remain a solid force in OU. Niches change when the fact comes along that normal forms can hold items, and like with normal evolutions, abilities, typing, and stats change. Even mons that likely will be in the same tier like Blaziken and his Mega can embody different niches because of factors like items held. They're simply too different to be compared solidly. So what im thinking is this: should be tier Megas separately due to their differing qualities?
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Other Should Mega Evolutions Be Tiered Separately From Their Normal Counterparts?
- Thread starter fryfrey
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If a MegaEvolution is too strong for a tier but its base form is not, we can consider banning the MegaStone, if it comes to that.
We could tier the items. We have done that before with Soul Dew for the Latis and it worked very well.
No Soul Dew in OU, Soul Dew in Ubers. I think it is pretty fair and allows some Pokemon to stay in their respective tiers while their Mega Evo is in another. I don't want to see Gengar go due to it's stupid Mega Evolution... It's the best attacker in OU right now, but totally underwhelming in Ubers unless running Gengarite.
No Soul Dew in OU, Soul Dew in Ubers. I think it is pretty fair and allows some Pokemon to stay in their respective tiers while their Mega Evo is in another. I don't want to see Gengar go due to it's stupid Mega Evolution... It's the best attacker in OU right now, but totally underwhelming in Ubers unless running Gengarite.
I would second this.
Also it's not really all that more "complicated" than banning the pokemon, since they are still 1-part bans, basically saying that you straight up can't use the whateverite.
Seems like a waste of the weaker Megas like Banette. =.= It better not come to that!
A blanket ban would be more damaging than helpful, I would think and probably analagous to banning an entire typing of Pokemon if too many were regarded as too powerful. Honestly banning the items as needed is exactly like banning individual Pokemon, a neat and elegant solution that's decidedly uncomplicated and logical.
Blanket bans are just bad ideas. The vast majority of Mega Evolutions will find themselves in tiers where they are not broken; only two seem plausible to be banned from OU, and one shares most of its possible issues with its regular form. Any that fall to lower tiers may end up having issues there, but there's no problem with just banning them on an individual basis, and as with regular Pokemon, we should expect that to be a relatively rare occurrence.
Exactly. I guess the main problem is that mons with perfectly viable Mega-forms but unviable bases will struggle to make the usage criteria for their appropriate tier due to one-slot syndrome and thus may end up in an inappropriate tier, but it's not like the lower tiers don't have their own banlists, and nothing's stopping the form from being used in the upper tiers where it belongs.
Definitely this. For example, Charizard's Mega-forms are a lot more viable out of NU than regular form is. Same goes for a lot of Mega-Pokemon. Mega-Banette is another great example.
Mega Banette is Ubers most reliable way to counter Power Herb Xerneas.
Banette by itself is so sucky that the simple mention of having it in Ubers because of an item we could dispose of is very silly.
SnoopingGil
professional lurker
I wonder if it would be possible to treat Mega Evolutions as separate Pokemon in the usage stats, just so that we don't get a situation where something like Banette gets yanked out of its tier just because Mega Banette (which, in the usage stats, merely registers as Banette holding a Banettite) is really popular in OU.
There is a very simple problem with "teiring Pokemon" based on their mega-stones. It is possible then to use 2 of the same Pokemon on the same team (3 in Charizard and Mewtwo's case) which thereby breaks the species clause.
Until this issue is dealt with, either by disgaurding the species clause, or simply banning (not teiring) Mega-evolutions respectively, then this proposal is simply inadequate.
Until this issue is dealt with, either by disgaurding the species clause, or simply banning (not teiring) Mega-evolutions respectively, then this proposal is simply inadequate.
Right. In some instances, it could work (Banette in NU, Mega-Banette wherever it ends up, for example). However, what about Blaziken? Speed Boost Blaziken will probably be Uber again, and Mega-Blaziken will likely be the same. That presents the issue of having both in the same tier.
What if we counted Mega's the same way we count Formes now (like Giratina and Shaymin and the Genies)?
That's silly. Mega Aggron cannot even hope to achieve OU status. Charizard Y fries it with Sun boosted Fire Blast.
Mega Heracross is not only really, really ugly, but Moxie/Guts Cross outperform in every possible way.
Mega Manectric... Come on...
Mega Houndoom needs sun support to be useful. It's still to frail to set it up by himself and it forces you to carry Ninetales, which is nothing near as good as Charizard Y.
Some Megas have already been confirmed to be outclassed by their LO/Choice previous ability normal form.
If we set up a tier only for Mega Evos, you will see everyone simply running Fried Chicken, Lucario and Gengar. Tiering the mega stone allows every mega to find his particular home. I vote for this.
This doesn't solve the problem at all.
People can choose to not-evolve their Mega Pokemon if they choose to. For example, under what you are proposing, someone could run Lucario, and another Lucario with a mega-stone. Until / if the user chooses to activate the mega-stone, they have 2 Lucarios on their team, breaking the species clause.
I guess it depends on the mega evolution. There are probably some mega evolution that don't make it a better pokemon at all. I think case in point in Tyranitar. Mega evolution might have better overall stats, but with the introduction of assault vest in this new generation means a lot more people would probably have a Tyranitar that can take hits from both sides, instead of just the physical side. I think though that pokemon are going to be re-tiered BECAUSE of their mega evolution. Unless it's a rare case like Tyranitar, most people are just going to use the mega evolution of a pokemon if it has one.
What does this mean for mega-mewtwo though? Is it going to be in like a super uber tier?
What does this mean for mega-mewtwo though? Is it going to be in like a super uber tier?
Ahhh yeah, I see what you mean. Since the Mega-Evolution doesn't happen right away and is optional... I gotcha.
On a side note, when you quote someone, why's it say "fat ______ said"?
Wait, but that's silly. We obviously make sure species clause overrides anything.
You cannot run any two pokemon of the same species, even if the mega-evo is in the same tier. It's not that hard to establish such a ban. Hell, the way it is now is the way I see it working, so I didn't see the problem in the first place.
Besides, I believe I have never seen a Ubers team running both Skymin and Shaymin. I think this is not something we should really worry about. Even better, never seen a Ubers team running both Lando or Thundy forms, even though they both would very well fit into a team if you have appropriate resists.
Oh God, this, I've always wondered myself.
I didn't know pokemon was a beauty contest should we just go ahead and make a tier called CUTE? and who said Mega aggron would even make OU status? Just because Mega Charizards are better than Mega Houndoom doesn't mean Mega Houndoom can't be used in other ways. Banning the Stones is just retarded and stupid overall.
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