Other Should Mega Evolutions Be Tiered Separately From Their Normal Counterparts?

[G-Von]

There is a simple way to deal with this: ban the megastone of the broken MegaEvo. Its retarded to have a separate tier for megas. Most of the Megas that got these items were lower tier pokemon that really needed the boost. Can this discussion please end now?

 

[Thorhammer]

I wonder if it would be possible to treat Mega Evolutions as separate Pokemon in the usage stats, just so that we don't get a situation where something like Banette gets yanked out of its tier just because Mega Banette (which, in the usage stats, merely registers as Banette holding a Banettite) is really popular in OU.

Banette doesn't have some inherent claim to OU. Non-Sticky Web Galvantula is getting yanked out of its tier because of how good Sticky Web Galvantula is, but who cares? It just means Galvantula is a better Pokemon now.

 

[Bobviapineapple]

There is a simple way to deal with this: ban the megastone of the broken MegaEvo. Its retarded to have a separate tier for megas. Most of the Megas that got these items were lower tier pokemon that really needed the boost. Can this discussion please end now?

What about mega-mewtwo?

 

[WildShot]

Mega Evolutions, like regular evolutions, were designed to be better than their regular counterparts. Even some already great Pokemon got Megas. However, with mega evolution, some Pokemon's niches change as well. Take Gengar for example. He got dressed up with some buffed, well, everything! Better bulk, better Special Attack and Speed, and even got Shadow Tag, often considered the best ability in the game. Undoubtedly he will be banned to ubers. But what about normal Gengar? He doesnt have the tools to be banned to ubers, but he will likely remain a solid force in OU. Niches change when the fact comes along that normal forms can hold items, and like with normal evolutions, abilities, typing, and stats change. Even mons that likely will be in the same tier like Blaziken and his Mega can embody different niches because of factors like items held. They're simply too different to be compared solidly. So what im thinking is this: should be tier Megas separately due to their differing qualities?

Of course. Anything else is complete stupidity (and in the case of a certain Pokémon, ABSOLute stupidity).

 

[nikovan]

I didn't know pokemon was a beauty contest what are we the fashion police? and who said Mega aggron would even make OU status? Just because Mega Charizards are better than Mega Houndoom doesn't mean Mega Houndoom can't be used in other ways. Banning the Stones is just retarded and stupid overall.

It is not retarded. Hell, as said countless of times before, item bans exist already!

Remember early BW? When there was no fucking Soul Dew? Latios and Latios started having a new lease in life in OU. They were such a good contribution to the meta that when B2W2 came with their Soul Dew, it was voted to ban the item, not the pokemon.

Essentially, Soul Dew Latios is Mega Latios. You can use Latios in OU, but Soul Dew (Mega Latios) in Ubers.

Explain to me why is it retarded?

 

[Bobviapineapple]

It is not retarded. Hell, as said countless of times before, item bans exist already!

Remember early BW? When there was no fucking Soul Dew? Latios and Latios started having a new lease in life in OU. They were such a good contribution to the meta that when B2W2 came with their Soul Dew, it was voted to ban the item, not the pokemon.

Essentially, Soul Dew Latios is Mega Latios. You can use Latios in OU, but Soul Dew (Mega Latios) in Ubers.

Explain to me why is it retarded?

I guess some mega evolutions still aren't that great, and banning EVERY stone would be bad for some pokemon.

 

[mrglass]

We could tier the items. We have done that before with Soul Dew for the Latis and it worked very well.

No Soul Dew in OU, Soul Dew in Ubers. I think it is pretty fair and allows some Pokemon to stay in their respective tiers while their Mega Evo is in another. I don't want to see Gengar go due to it's stupid Mega Evolution... It's the best attacker in OU right now, but totally underwhelming in Ubers unless running Gengarite.

Except that Soul Dew isn't tiered it's banned.

I don't agree with the notion of tiering mega-evos for the reason that was already stated. You have to use the original form first before mega-evolving. So you have the option of not mega-evolving at all. Additionally, each Mega-Evo isn't its own pokemon. It will always share some traits with the original. For example, Mega Houndoom could easily get screwed by Terrakion because the speed tier goes off original speed first. Mega Charizard X gets screwed by SR even though it's only 2x weak. Tiering pokemon who's pros and cons are situational like that could get hairy.

Also, it opens up an unprecedented complex tiering system. I have mixed feelings about complex bans but that's different from complex tiering. If Abomasnow isn't used enough to go to OU, and but it's deemed broken with Abomasite in UU, then you can ban the megastone for UU and below. But if Abomasnow is thrown in OU only when it holds a megastone, that just opens up a can of worms for only putting Sand Force Excadrill in OU, only Sand Stream T-Tar in OU, etc.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

It is not retarded. Hell, as said countless of times before, item bans exist already!

Remember early BW? When there was no fucking Soul Dew? Latios and Latios started having a new lease in life in OU. They were such a good contribution to the meta that when B2W2 came with their Soul Dew, it was voted to ban the item, not the pokemon.

Essentially, Soul Dew Latios is Mega Latios. You can use Latios in OU, but Soul Dew (Mega Latios) in Ubers.

Explain to me why is it retarded?

A blanket ban is retarded (and what I think he's getting at). A case by case ban system, just like banning individual Pokemon is the sensible way to go about it.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Its impossible to tier mega evos as separate pokemons, because well, they are not separate pokemons. If a mega evo is broken, just ban the item and get this done with. I dunno why is this even a discussion.

 

[dende5416]

There is a very simple problem with "teiring Pokemon" based on their mega-stones. It is possible then to use 2 of the same Pokemon on the same team (3 in Charizard and Mewtwo's case) which thereby breaks the species clause.

Until this issue is dealt with, either by disgaurding the species clause, or simply banning (not teiring) Mega-evolutions respectively, then this proposal is simply inadequate.

You... really confuse me. How would it be inadequate? I mean, just like they did with soul-dew, teiring the pokemon separately with and without the mega stones would be fine, simple, and require no changes to other rules. You would not be able to run separate versions of Charizard or any other split-form mega. Having to follow to separate rules doesn't hurt anything.

 

[nikovan]

We have complex bans for lower tiers. I can see a banlist of what stones are allowed in each tier. It's not that hard, if maybe annoying at first.

I have nothing more to say. I'm no Mega Evolution fan, but I don't want to lose the opportunity to use certain mega Evos in tiers were they could actually work.
Mega Gengar is broken in OU? Gengarite is banned from OU.

Mega Manectric is decent in UU? Let him be UU, I don't see why not.

 

[Jukain]

On a side note, when you quote someone, why's it say "fat ______ said"?

Smogon is morbidly obese.

In all seriousness I think that you guys really don't understand the big picture; MEvos are simply buffed versions of old Pokemon. They are the same as if we gave, say, Tyranitar an item that boosted its Attack and Speed.

In that case, we would of course ban Tyranitar's item. Why should MEvos be treated differently? At their core, they are the same Pokemon. You use the Base forme and can buff it with the Mega Evolution, but the MEvo is not a separate Pokemon unto itself. It is just a bigger and badder version of the original.

Hopefully this clears up any misconceptions.

 

[Halcyon.]

I think the problem here is that Ubers is not based on usage, but other tiers are. What I mean by that is this: Let's say that Absol receives enough usage to bring it up to OU because people are using its Mega Evolution. Therefor, Absol should be OU. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. If we start tiering Mega Absol as it's own Pokémon, then we can say that even though Absol was receiving OU usage, it could still be used in RU. Then lets say that the metagame changes so that (miraculously) Absol itself becomes better than its mega forme. Now Absol itself still receives OU usage but it's in RU. That makes no sense. That's why you can't tier Mega Pokémon separately. You can ban the item if the Pokémon doesn't get OU usage, though. For Example, Ampharos will most likely not get OU usage, but NU is more than welcome to ban Ampharosite if they find Mega Ampharos too much but not its normal forme. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Birkal]

Its impossible to tier mega evos as separate pokemons, because well, they are not separate pokemons. If a mega evo is broken, just ban the item and get this done with. I dunno why is this even a discussion.

This sums it up. We're done here.