Singles Victim of the Week [Current Victim: Landorus-T] ~ VOTING ~

Huge Power Azumarill makes a fair counter, especially when considering how few physical moves that counter it Talonflame has, that being zero moves that are super effective on Azumarill

Now, Azumarill has 100 HP and 80 Defense, while not astonishingly bulky like Heatran, or Ho-Oh, it's still a fair amount.

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 282-333 (77.6 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With that, your Azumarill is guaranteed to live, so long as entry hazards aren't up, then it can OHKO with Waterfall

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 626-740 (210.7 - 249.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Tyranitar is an excellent counter, all variants of tyranitar prove to make Talonflame set up fodder. Even burned Tyranitar knocks out Talonflame 100% of the time with stone edge, the only thing variant of Talonflame that stands a chance versus tyranitar is will o wisp bulk up, even that is easily beaten with a crit. (1/8)

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 108-128 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

4 Atk burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 368-434 (123.9 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
SnakeManvsArbok & Jernmax awesome to see some new guys taking part in this (my tweets must be working, lol). You actually need to include a proposed set for your nominated Pokemon so we can vote for it at the end! Examples would be (based on what you wrote):

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Superpower
- Aqua Jet

and

Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Stone Edge
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Dark Pulse
 
SnakeManvsArbok said:
Huge Power Azumarill makes a fair counter, especially when considering how few physical moves that counter it Talonflame has, that being zero moves that are super effective on Azumarill

Now, Azumarill has 100 HP and 80 Defense, while not astonishingly bulky like Heatran, or Ho-Oh, it's still a fair amount.

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 282-333 (77.6 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With that, your Azumarill is guaranteed to live, so long as entry hazards aren't up, then it can OHKO with Waterfall

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 626-740 (210.7 - 249.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Click to expand...

That's not much of a counter - by definition, a counter needs to be able to switch in and beat it. In your case, azu would switch in, take a brave bird, but wouldn't be able to survive another one to get off the needed waterfall. Aqua jet also wouldn't work because of brave bird's priority.
 
rhyperior counters its offensive sets.

rhyperior.gif

Rhyperior (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Roar/Toxic
- Ice Punch

252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 25-30 (11.2 - 13.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever

the strongest attack that talonflame can possibly hit it with.
252+ Atk Liechi Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 84-102 (37.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk burned Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 200-236 (119 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

rhyperior also has utility in checking:
-mega salamence
-garchomp(avalanche is preferred for that but isnt legal on rated battlespot)
-mega charizard X
-darmanitan
-entei
-arcanine
-staraptor
-blaziken
-physical mega lucario
-tyranitar/mega tyranitar
-terrakion
-mega altaria
-bisharp
-mega pinsir
-weavile
-cobalion
-mega beedrill
-infernape(no grass knot)
-honchkrow
 
I am nominating this Heatran set


Heatran (F) @ Shuca Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Ancient Power
- Earth Power
- Roar
- Fire Blast/Iron Defense

Talonflame can barely do anything to this set aside from Natural Gift. If it decides to SD then you can phase it out, if it taunts/roosts then you can beat with Ancient Power/Earth Power. If it doesn't have taunt then you can also boost your defense so that you can become very hard to take down. Choice of item is up to you. Shuca berry will allow to take Natural gift more easily while leftovers gives you more longevity.
 
Well, if Magcargo is going to be here, want to put a set I was decimated by (OHKO my favorite Clefable and you get my attention) but have been trying to figure the best way to work it.....

141.png

Kabutops (M) @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Flail
- Endure​

With being attacked on switch in, Weak Armor will activate. You will now be faster than the opposing Talonflame. The damage does not matter because nothing will OHKO you and you will be spending time at low HP. From here, it gets tricky. If the Talonflame has damage already, you're free to kill it with your Aqua Jet. If not, you will want to Endure. Endure is a +3 so Gale Wings is no issue. A switch (likely a U-turn, which gives another speed boost) is good as you are likely to outspeed what they have (unless a Scarfer and no U-turn). Endure can be used every second turn (Protect rules) and gives you a chance to survive something and possibly get another boost. The set is meant to ruin a number of expected counters (discussion for another time) and then kill Talonflame upon return (the most likely next switch unless they have a Bullet Puncher instead).

If no switch, the Berry will almost be the boost required. OHKO is possible... but 19% chance of. Could go Band, but same result and choiced. Weakness Policy is an overall viable option (especially for ruining physical fighters who try and take this thing), but will not help for Talonflame. Waterfall will 2HKO, but no priority and Rock Slide exists. Flail is meant mainly for things after Talonflame, but can potentially OHKO (guaranteed if using Berry).

Another option you can do is to shift all the speed EVs to Defense to survive 2 Life Orb BBs (yes, you need all 252 to avoid 2HKO after Weak Armor) but that requires a second activation of Weak Armor to outspeed Talonflame and is not recommended. It cannot avoid 2HKO if they are Banded instead. In the case of being burned on the switch, you can still OHKO with Rock Slide (or Edge) on next attack, but they will probably flee.


Soooo....
For those who want a true counter, 20 EVs for Defense will ensure Banded BB will not 2HKO.
Kabutops (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 Def / 232 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish / Knock Off / Aqua Jet
​
Switch in, survive, Rock move, kill. Simple. After that, you will unfortunately be underspeed to deal with other BS commons, but you'll have coverage. The EdgeQuake combo is a given, the last spot is if you prefer STAB priority, item killing, or being able to outspeed things without needing rain support.
 
Good ol' Garchomp.
445Garchomp_Dream.png

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Rock Tomb
- Stealth Rock

This Garchomp is only 3HKO'd by Banded Brave Bird and a fairly low chance of being 2HKO'd with Stealth Rocks up. With no Stealth Rock, Garchomp is a counter to Banded Talonflame. Even with Stealth Rocks it's still a great check and an unreliable counter due to the high, not guaranteed, chance of being 3HKO'd. This is considering Choice Band, so Garchomp handles Life Orb or Sharp Beak with ease.

Talonflame really hates the residual damage it'll face dealing with Rocky Helmet, Rough Skin, and the recoil from its two STAB moves, Brave Bird and Flare Blitz.

Rock Tomb and Stealth Rock can both deal with Talonflame accordingly. If you have switched in safely, Stealth Rock punishes switch outs by making Talonflame lose half of its HP on the switch. If not, it becomes a 50/50 on whether you should use Stealth Rock or Rock Tomb. Rock Tomb not only slaughters Talonflame it slows down any switch ins!

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 175-207 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 175-207 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Garchomp Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 288-340 (96.9 - 114.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Garchomp Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 288-340 (96.9 - 114.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
No Zapdos? Might write something about it or someone else can do it.

Edit: Too bad it gets 2HKO by Banded Talonflame unless you roost stall it while holding a Rocky Helmet.
 
Last edited:
407.gif


Roserade (M) @ Coba Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis

This Roserade is a Check to Talonflame. Look at these Calculations I did with these mons.

0 SpA Technician Roserade Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 428-504 (144.1 - 169.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Coba Berry Roserade: 220-261 (67.9 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And, also for the Special Defensive Set of Talonflame, Roserade does so well against it, more than the Choice Band Talonflame. Look at these calcs.

4 SpA Technician Roserade Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 288-340 (80 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Coba Berry Roserade: 102-121 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 85.5% chance to 3HKO

Since HP Rock, is a 2HKO and Brave Bird is a 3HKO, Roserade Wins!
 
OPBreloom! said:
407.gif


Roserade (M) @ Coba Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis

This Roserade is a Check to Talonflame. Look at these Calculations I did with these mons.

0 SpA Technician Roserade Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 428-504 (144.1 - 169.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Coba Berry Roserade: 220-261 (67.9 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And, also for the Special Defensive Set of Talonflame, Roserade does so well against it, more than the Choice Band Talonflame. Look at these calcs.

4 SpA Technician Roserade Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 288-340 (80 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Coba Berry Roserade: 102-121 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 85.5% chance to 3HKO

Since HP Rock, is a 2HKO and Brave Bird is a 3HKO, Roserade Wins!
Click to expand...
Coba berry doesn't halve the second hit, so Roserade loses. (unless the first hit recoil kills it, not sure if it does)
 
Hippowdon (F) @ Rocky Helmet [Insert cool Hippowdon pic]
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
- Stealth Rock/Whirlwind/Toxic
- Slack Off
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Ive tried thinking about other mons aside try hard common counters so Hippo is where its @, It's no Garchomp or Lando T but its really good being a support mon.

Calcs:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Banded Talonflame - 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 151-178 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 151-178 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Hippo can strike back with Rock slide - 0 Atk Hippowdon Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 316-372 (106.3 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
ORRRR Slack off
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sword Dance Talonflame - +2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 220-259 (52.3 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 183-216 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
[Keep in Mind Rocky Helmet and BB/FB recoil damage as well]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

StallBreaker Talonflame - 0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 70-84 (16.6 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO
Since some stallbreaker Talon run Will o Wisp, I did a calc on what a burned Hippo Rock Slide would do back to it.

Hippo : 4 Atk burned Hippowdon Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 158-188 (44 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry guys, I can't think of creative sets that don't involve common mons or Rock types :(
Mega Slowbro tho
 
Last edited:
Nominating this stud of a pokemon Carracosta
shiny_carracosta_by_pokespritesgalore-d8ysbzx.gif

Carracosta (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 250 HP / 58 Atk / 200 Def
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake/Aqua Jet
- Waterfall

This week I wanted to try something new and what we have here is none other than the infamous PU/NU tank itself, Carracosta!
Talonflame sets aren't very diverse in the competitive Battlespot meta with them either being the typical SwordsDance/Brave Bird/Flare Blitz or now more commonly seen Bulky Will-o-Wisp/roost sets used to stall out pokemon that would normally end it, such as breloom and mandibuzz. Most of Talonflame's physical movepool consists of nearly everything being Fire, Flying, or Normal, with the exception of some other rarely seen moves such as Thief and Steel Wing.
Time to run some calcs:

Swords Dance/Choice Band Talon vs. Carracosta
Sharp Beak: 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Carracosta: 30-36 (16.5 - 19.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Carracosta: 12-15 (6.6 - 8.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Liechi Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 84-102 (46.4 - 56.3%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Talonflame Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Carracosta: 21-25 (11.6 - 13.8%) -- possible 8HKO (You get the point)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Carracosta: 42-49 (23.2 - 27%) -- 52.1% chance to 4HKO

Carracosta vs. Swords Dance Talon & Bulky Talon
58+ Atk Choice Band Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 552-652 (328.5 - 388%) -- guaranteed OHKO
58+ Atk Choice Band Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Talonflame: 372-444 (201 - 240%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Adamant Talon @ Sharp Beak , for those curious..
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Carracosta: 33-39 (18.2 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Carracosta: 14-16 (7.7 - 8.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
 
Last edited:
PikachuCandyツ said:
shiny_carracosta_by_pokespritesgalore-d8ysbzx.gif

Carracosta (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 250 HP / 58 Atk / 200 Def
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
Click to expand...

Couple nitpicks:

-252 HP/56 Atk/200 Def, the two extra points in Attack are wasted due it not being divisible by four.
-Carracosta would really benefit from having Aqua Jet on here somewhere. Earthquake doesn't offer much relevant coverage (besides Aegislash) so maybe over that? Carracosta underspeeds Aegi so I'd imagine Banded Waterfall smacks Blade Forme pretty hard.

Cool set otherwise :]
 
ethan06 said:
Couple nitpicks:

-252 HP/56 Atk/200 Def, the two extra points in Attack are wasted due it not being divisible by four.
-Carracosta would really benefit from having Aqua Jet on here somewhere. Earthquake doesn't offer much relevant coverage (besides Aegislash) so maybe over that? Carracosta underspeeds Aegi so I'd imagine Banded Waterfall smacks Blade Forme pretty hard.

Cool set otherwise :]
Click to expand...
Ok QC check 3/3 done and implemented, thanks for the help!
But in all seriousness when making this set I wanted to have a Pokemon that can both counter talonflame and still play fairly well against other mons and that's where the attack investment came from. I could have very well made it max hp and defense and still have a guaranteed OHKO everytime, but sometimes you may not have the best matchup and I wanted it to do the best it can do if so happen to happened.
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 85-100 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO
58+ Atk Choice Band Carracosta Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 166-196 (92.2 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
 
PikachuCandyツ said:
Ok QC check 3/3 done and implemented, thanks for the help!
But in all seriousness when making this set I wanted to have a Pokemon that can both counter talonflame and still play fairly well against other mons and that's where the attack investment came from. I could have very well made it max hp and defense and still have a guaranteed OHKO everytime, but sometimes you may not have the best matchup and I wanted it to do the best it can do if so happen to happened.
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 85-100 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO
58+ Atk Choice Band Carracosta Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 166-196 (92.2 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Click to expand...
I don't think he's questioning the attack investment in general. It's just that your ev spread isn't suited to level 50. If you had 252 hp/60 atk/ 196 def you would have the same amount of Def but one extra point in attack, might as well use the extra point lol

You can set pokemon to level 50 in showdown's teambuilder or damagecalcs to check this stuff out :-)
 
cant say confirmed as lazy mod. time to wrap this up...

377.png

Regirock @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Tomb / Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch

So I chose Regirock because he's a rock type (resisting both Talonflame's STABs) and he has massive natural physical defense so he takes even less damage! Give him an Assault Vest to patch up his still better than average special bulk and you've got a pretty bulky Pokemon on your hands. I've given him adamant and max attack so he can dish out some pain while tanking attacks, but a more defensive set is viable with moves like Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave. Rock Tomb is my favourite move for the speed drop it gives against the opponent (and still OHKOs standard Talonflame), but Stone Edge can be used for maximum power at the cost of accuracy, and Rock Slide is sort of a happy medium. Stone Edge has the benefit of being able to fight through fully defensive Talonflame packing both Will-O-Wisp and Roost, but that set isn't as popular as more offensive variants. The rest of the moves are just coverage, Drain Punch also gives you health back, however it can be replaced by Hammer Arm for more power (and you don't really care about the speed drop coz Regirock is slow af anyway. Now for some calcs!

Offensive:
  • 252+ Atk Regirock Rock Tomb vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 252-300 (163.6 - 194.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252+ Atk Regirock Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 252-300 (136.2 - 162.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252+ Atk Regirock Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Talonflame: 168-204 (90.8 - 110.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
  • 252+ Atk burned Regirock Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Talonflame: 84-102 (45.4 - 55.1%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk burned Regirock Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Talonflame: 104-126 (56.2 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk burned Regirock Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Talonflame: 140-168 (75.6 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Defensive:
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird (or Flare Blitz) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 33-40 (17.6 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO
  • 252+ Atk Liechi Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 52-62 (27.8 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

~ T I M E 2 V O T E ~​
Holy shit guys, 15 nominations! Unfortunately, we could have potentially had 17 but I had to leave out SnakeManvsArbok's Azumarill and AllJokesAside's Tyranitar since they didn't provide an actual set, remember to do that next time guys!

Anyway, I'm voting for ethan06 as Tyrantrum seems like a cool Pokemon, especially with the Head Smash + Rock Head combination. I was really tempted to vote for Psynergy's Relicanth because I actually ran some damage calcs and it does a surprising amount of damage to a lot of stuff! However Tyrantrum's speed and better coverage won it for me.

edit: forgot to add myself to the nominations list, lol
 
Last edited:
Psynergy

I know a bro when I see one :] Really though, Relicanth does a pretty nice amount of damage with Head Smash for a defensive Pokémon. It beats Aegislash, Greninja at full, it trashes Talonflame... what's not to like? <3
 
Psynergy

Relicanth has a great offensive movepool along with excellent coverage in hitting many Pokemon within the metagame and acts as a very nice Choice Band wallbreaker.

Side note: I just love how people utilize underrated Pokemon to show they're worthy in taking on some bigger threats! ^^
 
RandomBro

Rhyperior is quite an underrated pokemon in this metagame and checks a good portion of offensive pokemon like some of the ones RandomBro stated. I would honestly prefer another item like Rocky Helmet on the set so Talonlame would hate you even more while it U-Turns, but Lefties is cool and Talonlame will get shrekt regardless if Rhyperior's still alive and healthy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top