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Zarude @ Life Orb
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Darkest Lariat
- Power Whip
This might look not very strong as it just uses SD over BU, but it is pretty good. It has powerful STAB + good coverage in Dark+Fighting, which hits neutral to almost everything when paired with Power Whip.
The only real threats there are Tapu Bulu and Zapdos-Galar, and you outspeed everything but Hawlucha (Ribombee and Whimsicott aren't used at all).
It is also inmune to Prankster thanks to its Dark typing and can switch in predicted Lele's Expanding Force, as well as outspeeding and OHKOing it (252 Atk Life Orb Zarude Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 305-360 (108.5 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
I'm kind of surprised how many people in this thread seem to want Urshifu-SS gone when pretty much any offensive ground with Bolt Strike or some other strong coverage does the same thing as it. Mamoswine, Landorus-Therian, Garchomp and Excadrill are all just as hard to answer defensively, as are a good few other mons. You can give pretty much anything with an insane attack stat either a boosting move or coverage and they'll become unwallable, or you can make something already practically unwallable like Zapdos-G or Nidoking even more dangerous with boosting moves (anyone remember No Retreat Nidoking?) or improved longevity, so what makes Urshifu so special? Dunno, maybe I'll change my mind given more experience with the meta, but that's just my early take.
Anyway, here's a set:
Rhyperior @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Swords Dance - Trick Room
Pair with screens for best results. Sketching Trick Room allows Rhyperior to "outspeed" the entire metagame short of Ferrothorn and Slowbro. Under screens, anything that isn't super effective will do negligible damage, often forcing opponents to either find a defensive answer (rarer than you'd think in this kind of meta) or trigger its Weakness Policy. Many mons that might be able to land status are weak to one of Rhyperior's STABs - Heatran, Mandibuzz, and Toxapex being easy examples.
Now, you might think that it's easy enough to just KO it, as after all, it has several weaknesses including two 4x weaknesses. But behold:
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior in Grassy Terrain through Reflect: 285-337 (65.6 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior on a critical hit: 259-306 (59.6 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowking Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior through Light Screen: 285-337 (65.6 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And though it's never going to happen in a game, Rhyperior doesn't even always die to this:
+6 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior through Reflect: 423-498 (97.4 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Of course, the set isn't unbeatable. If you do get forced out, it's a big momentum loss (especially if you're not running full Trick Room, which you probably aren't on screens) and you're likely chipped which makes you FAR easier to KO the next time you come in. And you often have to get some chip on certain mons to confirm unboosted KOs to avoid status. In the case of Corviknight and Slowbro, you'll need chip to beat them at all (Slowking however gets OHKOed after policy and can't really avoid activating it). The Urshifus make a good check as they always crit, allowing them to bypass screens and either OHKO you (Rapid) or avoid activating Weakness Policy (Single). Specially-oriented offensive Water and Grass types tend to kill through screens, so you have to be wary of rain teams and... Venusaur, I guess. tl;dr the set does have major flaws, but it's fun and reasonably effective so I figured I'd share it.
I'm kind of surprised how many people in this thread seem to want Urshifu-SS gone when pretty much any offensive ground with Bolt Strike or some other strong coverage does the same thing as it. Mamoswine, Landorus-Therian, Garchomp and Excadrill are all just as hard to answer defensively, as are a good few other mons. You can give pretty much anything with an insane attack stat either a boosting move or coverage and they'll become unwallable, or you can make something already practically unwallable like Zapdos-G or Nidoking even more dangerous with boosting moves (anyone remember No Retreat Nidoking?) or improved longevity, so what makes Urshifu so special? Dunno, maybe I'll change my mind given more experience with the meta, but that's just my early take.
why people want urshifu-s banned:
I agree that most offensive pokemons can be very hard to defend but that's the point of the meta. the pb with urshifu-s is he is already intankable. so you just need a boost move to make it more broken that ever. that's why people want him banned and im in
I'm kind of surprised how many people in this thread seem to want Urshifu-SS gone when pretty much any offensive ground with Bolt Strike or some other strong coverage does the same thing as it. Mamoswine, Landorus-Therian, Garchomp and Excadrill are all just as hard to answer defensively, as are a good few other mons. You can give pretty much anything with an insane attack stat either a boosting move or coverage and they'll become unwallable, or you can make something already practically unwallable like Zapdos-G or Nidoking even more dangerous with boosting moves (anyone remember No Retreat Nidoking?) or improved longevity, so what makes Urshifu so special? Dunno, maybe I'll change my mind given more experience with the meta, but that's just my early take.
Anyway, here's a set:
Rhyperior @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Swords Dance - Trick Room
Pair with screens for best results. Sketching Trick Room allows Rhyperior to "outspeed" the entire metagame short of Ferrothorn and Slowbro. Under screens, anything that isn't super effective will do negligible damage, often forcing opponents to either find a defensive answer (rarer than you'd think in this kind of meta) or trigger its Weakness Policy. Many mons that might be able to land status are weak to one of Rhyperior's STABs - Heatran, Mandibuzz, and Toxapex being easy examples.
Now, you might think that it's easy enough to just KO it, as after all, it has several weaknesses including two 4x weaknesses. But behold:
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior in Grassy Terrain through Reflect: 285-337 (65.6 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior on a critical hit: 259-306 (59.6 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowking Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior through Light Screen: 285-337 (65.6 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And though it's never going to happen in a game, Rhyperior doesn't even always die to this:
+6 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior through Reflect: 423-498 (97.4 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Of course, the set isn't unbeatable. If you do get forced out, it's a big momentum loss (especially if you're not running full Trick Room, which you probably aren't on screens) and you're likely chipped which makes you FAR easier to KO the next time you come in. And you often have to get some chip on certain mons to confirm unboosted KOs to avoid status. In the case of Corviknight and Slowbro, you'll need chip to beat them at all (Slowking however gets OHKOed after policy and can't really avoid activating it). The Urshifus make a good check as they always crit, allowing them to bypass screens and either OHKO you (Rapid) or avoid activating Weakness Policy (Single). Specially-oriented offensive Water and Grass types tend to kill through screens, so you have to be wary of rain teams and... Venusaur, I guess. tl;dr the set does have major flaws, but it's fun and reasonably effective so I figured I'd share it.
The problem with Urshifu-SS is that it already has great coverage with Wicked Blow and Close Combat.
Pokemon like Landorus-T, Garchomp, or Mamoswine have to decide whether they want coverage, a better STAB, or Dragon Dance. Close Combat is already the best Fighting move and Wicked Blow is definitely one of the best Dark moves. This lets it have more freedom in what moves it can sketch viably without compromise.
It also doesn’t help that Urshifu-S is part dark, so no Prankster Topsy-Turvy, Spectrial Theif is resisted, and with it’s 100/100 Physical bulk, it doesn’t mind priority all that much if its healthy.
The problem with Urshifu-SS is that it already has great coverage with Wicked Blow and Close Combat.
Pokemon like Landorus-T, Garchomp, or Mamoswine have to decide whether they want coverage, a better STAB, or Dragon Dance. Close Combat is already the best Fighting move and Wicked Blow is definitely one of the best Dark moves. This lets it have more freedom in what moves it can sketch viably without compromise.
It also doesn’t help that Urshifu-S is part dark, so no Prankster Topsy-Turvy, Spectrial Theif is resisted, and with it’s 100/100 Physical bulk, it doesn’t mind priority all that much if its healthy.
I mentioned Nidoking and Zapdos-Galar for pretty much this reason: they're both as unwallable as Urshifu normally is, barring kanto Zapdos for the latter, and both love setup moves for the same reasons as Urshifu. It gives them the speed to answer faster threats they can't normally beat, and/or the power to OHKO bulkier or type-advantaged offensive threats that would've taken a hit to check them. The partial Dark typing is a good call, though, I'll give you that one. I tend to forget how many defensive benefits it grants since there are so few Dark types with good longevity.
I also don't think Urshifu actually has much variety in sketched moves. As you've said, it already has the two best STABs of its typing (with Wicked Blow in particular being very easy to spam and make progress with), and on top of that it already has coverage against Fairy (I suppose Zapdos-Galar and Hawlucha also resist, but neither has the bulk to answer Urshifu anyway), as well as already possessing priority in Sucker Punch and pivoting in U-turn. Swords Dance, No Retreat and Dragon Dance are the only moves I can think of that actually change how you would handle Urshifu. Bolt Strike/Plasma Fists, maybe, but the mons it hits are fake switchins anyway and get dunked at +2:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos-Galar on a critical hit: 282-333 (87.8 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex on a critical hit: 276-325 (90.7 - 106.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
That being said - there's a lot of creativity that goes into this meta, both in individual sets and larger-scale teambuilding, so there's a good chance I'm missing something that Urshifu can abuse the hell out of, whether it be an overlooked move or an enabling partner in crime. It certainly has a lot of great things going for it, and is a huge threat both in the teambuilder and in practice that demands strong answers to it. I just think we should give it more time and discussion (hence why I spoke up in the first place - it's nice to see explanations like yours, as well as other angles on the issue).
The council has been discussing Transform recently.
I personally strongly disagree with a Transform ban, and I am going to lay out why.
The tl;dr of this post:
-Transform is not broken.
-Transform does not let you pick your targets and as such it is entirely feasible to build and utilize counterplay to it on any team.
-Imposter is a terrible analogy for Transform in a competitive scene despite the mechanical similarities.
-If your team dies the first time its up against a bulkier version of one of your mons (as in, ANY of your mons, you get to pick) your team is probably bad. The occasional Hyper-Offense might be exempt from this, and these teams should be ready to stop Chansey on any individual turn.
And now megapost!
I will start with a couple assumptions and clarifications:
Chansey and Blissey are the main abusers of this strategy. Other viable users exist but do essentially the same thing, just less devoted to the strategy and potentially with more surprise factor.
Players are competent and aware of the possibility of Transform. This is obviously wrong in many cases but, as every tiering argument should, I am focusing on higher-leveled play.
Transform is indeed a powerful move and nothing I say here should be taken to mean otherwise.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
1) Imposter, and why Transform is nothing like it
Transform is rather mechanically similar to Imposter and as such naturally invites comparisons. However from a competitive standpoint they perform completely different roles.
Imposter is used both in standard tiers and in Balanced Hackmons as an anti-offensive tool. It reverses momentum, punishes run-away boosting, and in general acts as a way to instantly reverse the flow of a battle.
Transform requires two very important things that Imposter does not. First you need to start as the base Pokémon and second you need to spend a turn Transforming. These may seem to be the same thing, and mechanically they essentially are, but I will break down how they are different competitively and the different types of counterplay they provide.
The fact that you do not instantly Transform on switch-in and instead do it afterward means you do not determine what you Transform into. Your opponent has the opportunity to switch if they wish. Imposter in Balanced Hackmons is done on switch-in, meaning that your opponent has to be aware that they could be facing a Transformed version of themselves the next turn, any turn, no matter what is in. In Sketchmons you are forewarned by the presence of a Chansey or Blissey on the field, and are able to switch into whatever on your team you are able to deal with.
Chansey and Blissey (and every potential non-Prankster user of this strategy besides Mew, who would not be effected by a restriction) are slow. Because you need to spend the turn they are first in and capable of moving transforming they will likely be outsped and take a hit before they get their new bulk and / or power. This means they need to either tank an attack or risk a status move in their base form. Chansey and Blissey have notoriously weak physical defense, and are almost as notoriously Taunt bait. A large number of the Pokémon they would like to Transform into can either heavily dent them, potentially providing them with no way to recover before they come in again, outright KO them, set up a Substitute, or Taunt them. If they are already set up you will likely die instead of stealing their boosts because, you know, set up mon hit hard.
In short: Imposter steals momentum in situations Transform cannot.
Transform can occasionally gain momentum through forced switched, but for the most part the cost of using it is that it is a momentum drain.
2) What it would take for Transform to be broken
How can Transform potentially perform in the metagame to a broken extent, and why doesn't it do that:
There are four possible ways for Transform to be broken given current mechanics.
The first, and most realistic, is by utilizing the 20 PP from every Transform in order to stall out the PP of the opposing Pokémon. Chansey and to a lesser extent Blissey are absurdly fat after Transforming into almost anything, and by stealing recovery PP, dealing damage, and forcing recovery on walls you otherwise could probably not, all while using 1 PP from your actual pool, you have a major leg up if the battle comes down to PP.
However the current fast pace of Sketchmons means that most battles do not go into PP stall, meaning that this potential issue has not arisen yet. It's also notable that it is perfectly possible to force Chansey to Transform into Pokemon with no Recovery, forcing it to take chip damage or remain in its
The second, least discussed, and frankly most ridiculous is by acting as a scout. Sketchmons is a metagame based around non-static movepools, lures, and unpredictable sets, and you could argue that because Transform reveals the opponents moveset you are removing that element of the metagame putting the side using it at an unfair advantage. However this advantage, while certainly more useful than usual here, is not extreme.
While certainly an advantage it is a huge stretch to argue that knowing one of your opponents sets is unfair, particularly when 1) Sketch moves often get revealed as the battle goes on 2) Ditto can do this exact same thing with less risk and more momentum.
The third is by stealing offensive power from offensive Pokemon. This has been the most discussed so far and is the primary reason the council is looking at it. By Transforming into offensive Pokémon you can threaten the opposing team without being immediately threatened yourself. Because of their absurd HP stats Chansey and Blissey will be able to 1v1 almost any offensive Pokemon they get the opportunity to Transform into.
However this complaint overlooks two key factors. First is that Transform users, as I said above, do not get to choose what they effect with Transform. They cannot choose to Transform into an offensive Pokemon, and if the opponent lets a Transform user turn into something that can break their team then that opponent made a tactical blunder, to put it mildly.
The second is that many offensive Pokemon have the capability of threatening Chansey. A Chansey that transforms after tanking a powerful hit is a Chansey that lost its main asset: its enormous HP pool.
The fact that this is the most discussed and alluded to issue comes out of the fact that we are looking at Transform too much like we do Imposter; as something to steal offensive momentum from the opponent by instantly replacing yourself with a superior version of the opponent, whether it be superior in power (Pikachu or Lucky Punch Chansey in BH), Speed (Choice Scarf Imposter in anything), or bulk (again Chansey). Transform cannot effectively or reliably provide counterplay to offensive Pokemon that the Transformer (robot in disguise) did not already counter.
The fourth is through memes like Imprison-form and these honestly don't even warrant discussion.
That's it for now. I hope I laid out my arguments clearly enough and didn't repeat myself too much! Have some Other things...
Zeraora @ Ice Memory / Wide Lens
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack / Triple Axel
- Plasma Fists
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
This set is still rather broken, even without Glacial Lance. No Extreme Speed has made it significantly harder to revenge kill, especially since at +1/+1 it can easily live a Grassy Glide and KO back if it nabs a Bulk Up on the switch.
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zeraora in Grassy Terrain: 201-237 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 384-452 (112.6 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Grassy Glide vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zeraora in Grassy Terrain: 207-244 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 314-370 (111.7 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 314-370 (91.2 - 107.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
It's absurdly fast, has near perfect coverage, can Taunt a ton of defensive stuff with minimal prediction.
Its main weakness is no recovery, so it is vulnerable to being chipped into range of some stuff.
Regidrago @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Outrage
- Hammer Arm
- Fire Fang / Crunch
Look at me I'm fun!
There are 6 legal non-Ghost-type Pokémon not OHKO'd by this Final Gambit from full, including both Chansey and Blissey (2HKO'd by Outrage and Hammer Arm after Rocks in Chansey's case), Wobbuffet (have fun ^_^), Regidrago (no duh), Wailord (at least it's better than Wobb), and Guzzlord (maybe viable?).
This thing loses almost all its viability after getting chipped or switching into rocks a couple times, but if you use it right and support it right it will take down pretty much anything you need it to.
I'm hyping this up but its weaknesses are pretty notable and it will only ever take down one mon per match with Final Gambit, and besides that move it's kinda just.... bad. This was chosen over Guzzlord or Blissey or similar Pokémon because it has both a Speed stat and existent offensive presence.
5 Surprise Status Moves to Sketch, Plus Extra Spicy Options
Welcome to Sketchmons, where you can pick that one perfect move that will complete your set. Will you choose an extra-strong STAB attack, or perhaps a coverage option or a priority move?
No, because you're not a normie. It's too easy to simply add an extra-strong attack to a Pokémon and call it a day. For an intellectual such as yourself, you will need to dig deep into the builder to find the sexiest, least-expected techs that will utterly transform the role of the mon that uses it. We will be ignoring obvious options like recovery, setup, and Transform on blobs. For the true philosophers among us, I have provided extra-spicy alternatives.
Status moves can cripple an enemy for the whole match, and they're easy to spam. We all know how good Will-O-Wisp is, and it's even more effective on a Pokémon that doesn't learn it normally. I think Will-O-Wisp is best used on fast, semi-bulky mons with a means of recovery, like Zapdos and Torn-T, who can outspeed a threat and shrug off any hits they might take.
Extra-spicy option: Glare — Yellow magic is yellow magic; degens rejoice at the thought of putting Glare on any mon.
In an HO-infested metagame, Trick Room is no joke, and a slow behemoth like Melmetal can work both as a setter and as an abuser. Torkoal gets a special shoutout for enabling SunnyRoom strategies with Alolawak.
Extra-spicy option: Speed Swap — Trick Room only lasts 5 turns, but higher speed lasts indefinitely! Any mon which would run an OTR set could also run a Speed Swap set.
If you've missed Mega Banette this gen, bring it back in Sketchmons! Destiny Bond is a nice surprise option that can stop an enemy sweeper in a pinch, but it's not just a gimmick. Whimsicott can use the negative priority of Trick Room to its advantage here to ensure that there is no turn where the enemy is safe to attack it. DBond isn't just useful on Prankster mons, though; it's also useful on fast suicide leads like Aerodactyl.
Extra-spicy option: Fairy Lock — There are lots of neat options for Prankster users (Topsy-Turvy, Disable, Copycat, Haze, Metronome, to name a few), but Fairy Lock might be the most fun of them, trapping the enemy for a turn. Use with Eject Button or Shed Shell for maximum effect.
If the last couple options were anti-HO, this is the anti-stall option. Heatran is the premier Perish Song user thanks to Magma Storm's trapping effect and the fact that it can prevent Teleportation thanks to Taunt, but Slowbro can trap a wide variety of mons with Whirlpool + Perish Song and easily Recover and Regen away any damage it might take in the process.
Even though the post is about status-sketching mons, it's worth pointing out that Celebi is also a great user of Magma Storm + Perish Song.
Extra-spicy option: Tar Shot — This move seems like it was literally built for Heatran: Tar Shot lowers the target's speed by 1 and makes it 2x weak to Fire type moves. Sorry, Garchomp that tried to switch in, you're getting OHKO'd.
Last but not least, upgraded Vincune and Vinkyurem add another tool to their arsenal. Protect was already one of the best moves in the game, but Baneful Bunker lets Cune spread status while keeping itself safe. The passive poison works really nicely with the grindy gameplan of Pressure users, and commonly-sketched moves like Head Smash, Bolt Strike, Sacred Fire, and Dragon Ascent are all contact.
Extra-spicy option: King's Shield/Obstruct — On a SpD boosting mon like CM Cune (or CM Fini!), King's Shield effectively allows it to boost its Def at the same time, making it extra difficult to break. On the other hand, Obstruct can be used on DD Kyurem as well as Speed Boost Blaziken and Scolipede to secure critical KOs.
FEAR just got massively upgraded! Thanks to Leech Seed keeping the user at full while dealing passive damage, it is now easier than ever to pull off the famous level 1 cheese strat. Try it out!
There are many great options I didn't cover here — like Trick, Strength Sap, Psych Up, Jungle Healing, Spikes, Recycle, Lunar Dance, Stuff Cheeks, Court Change, and many others. This is all for now, though, so don't forget to smash that like button, and happy laddering!
Magearna can use Doom Desire on its pivoting sets, giving up its ability to beat either Ground types or Clefable/other Magearna in order to support teammates that struggle breaking through the likes of Tyranitar, Clefable or Kyurem.
Bisharp can sketch Power Whip to beat on bulky grounds. This also lets it smack Tapu Fini/Azumarill.
Chansey/Blissey can use Cotton Guard. I'm sorry.
Corviknight can make use of Coil or Cotton Guard on Power Trip sets for faster boosting, or try out Cosmic Power or Amnesia to beat special attackers. There's also better pivoting options like Parting Shot and Teleport.
Hippowdon doesn't mind Shore Up, it's a straight upgrade to its normal recovery. It can also make use of its low speed and run a pivoting move, probably U-turn or Flip Turn so it doesn't end up as Taunt bait.
Hydreigon can dunk on Fairy types with Shell Side Arm. Roost + Dragon Energy is a funny one too.
Melmetal loves recovery and Sacred Fire/Pyro Ball, and of course, Trick Room.
Nidoking can borrow a trick it's used in ABC to great success: No Retreat. It also has access to Freeze Dry which gives it all the advantages of Ice Beam and Thunderbolt in one moveslot.
Rillaboom can also run Icicle Crash or Diamond Storm to hit Zapdos, Moltres, Dragonite etc., and if all else fails it can just sketch Power Whip for an upgrade to Wood Hammer on Choice Band sets.
Tornadus-Therian is one of the best Oblivion Wing users there is, or it can opt for Secret Sword to more immediately and reliably beat Blissey, Heatran and Tyranitar.
Blaziken with Pyro Ball is nice, but it also desperately wants coverage against Tapu Fini, Toxapex, Slowbro and the like, so Bolt Strike is another really strong option. Nasty Plot is cool too.
Latias... yeah, I've got nothing. I suppose Lunar Dance is an upgrade to Healing Wish. Maybe you could run Volt Switch on Scarf sets?
Zapdos-Galar LOVES both Knock Off for choiced sets to wear down Zapdos/Toxapex/Corviknight and beat Aegislash, and setup moves like Swords Dance, No Retreat and Dragon Dance to just absolutely delete so called "resists" and "offensive checks."
The council has been discussing Transform recently.
I personally strongly disagree with a Transform ban, and I am going to lay out why.
The tl;dr of this post:
-Transform is not broken.
-Transform does not let you pick your targets and as such it is entirely feasible to build and utilize counterplay to it on any team.
-Imposter is a terrible analogy for Transform in a competitive scene despite the mechanical similarities.
-If your team dies the first time its up against a bulkier version of one of your mons (as in, ANY of your mons, you get to pick) your team is probably bad. The occasional Hyper-Offense might be exempt from this, and these teams should be ready to stop Chansey on any individual turn.
And now megapost!
I will start with a couple assumptions and clarifications:
Chansey and Blissey are the main abusers of this strategy. Other viable users exist but do essentially the same thing, just less devoted to the strategy and potentially with more surprise factor.
Players are competent and aware of the possibility of Transform. This is obviously wrong in many cases but, as every tiering argument should, I am focusing on higher-leveled play.
Transform is indeed a powerful move and nothing I say here should be taken to mean otherwise.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
1) Imposter, and why Transform is nothing like it
Transform is rather mechanically similar to Imposter and as such naturally invites comparisons. However from a competitive standpoint they perform completely different roles.
Imposter is used both in standard tiers and in Balanced Hackmons as an anti-offensive tool. It reverses momentum, punishes run-away boosting, and in general acts as a way to instantly reverse the flow of a battle.
Transform requires two very important things that Imposter does not. First you need to start as the base Pokémon and second you need to spend a turn Transforming. These may seem to be the same thing, and mechanically they essentially are, but I will break down how they are different competitively and the different types of counterplay they provide.
The fact that you do not instantly Transform on switch-in and instead do it afterward means you do not determine what you Transform into. Your opponent has the opportunity to switch if they wish. Imposter in Balanced Hackmons is done on switch-in, meaning that your opponent has to be aware that they could be facing a Transformed version of themselves the next turn, any turn, no matter what is in. In Sketchmons you are forewarned by the presence of a Chansey or Blissey on the field, and are able to switch into whatever on your team you are able to deal with.
Chansey and Blissey (and every potential non-Prankster user of this strategy besides Mew, who would not be effected by a restriction) are slow. Because you need to spend the turn they are first in and capable of moving transforming they will likely be outsped and take a hit before they get their new bulk and / or power. This means they need to either tank an attack or risk a status move in their base form. Chansey and Blissey have notoriously weak physical defense, and are almost as notoriously Taunt bait. A large number of the Pokémon they would like to Transform into can either heavily dent them, potentially providing them with no way to recover before they come in again, outright KO them, set up a Substitute, or Taunt them. If they are already set up you will likely die instead of stealing their boosts because, you know, set up mon hit hard.
In short: Imposter steals momentum in situations Transform cannot.
Transform can occasionally gain momentum through forced switched, but for the most part the cost of using it is that it is a momentum drain.
2) What it would take for Transform to be broken
How can Transform potentially perform in the metagame to a broken extent, and why doesn't it do that:
There are four possible ways for Transform to be broken given current mechanics.
The first, and most realistic, is by utilizing the 20 PP from every Transform in order to stall out the PP of the opposing Pokémon. Chansey and to a lesser extent Blissey are absurdly fat after Transforming into almost anything, and by stealing recovery PP, dealing damage, and forcing recovery on walls you otherwise could probably not, all while using 1 PP from your actual pool, you have a major leg up if the battle comes down to PP.
However the current fast pace of Sketchmons means that most battles do not go into PP stall, meaning that this potential issue has not arisen yet. It's also notable that it is perfectly possible to force Chansey to Transform into Pokemon with no Recovery, forcing it to take chip damage or remain in its
The second, least discussed, and frankly most ridiculous is by acting as a scout. Sketchmons is a metagame based around non-static movepools, lures, and unpredictable sets, and you could argue that because Transform reveals the opponents moveset you are removing that element of the metagame putting the side using it at an unfair advantage. However this advantage, while certainly more useful than usual here, is not extreme.
While certainly an advantage it is a huge stretch to argue that knowing one of your opponents sets is unfair, particularly when 1) Sketch moves often get revealed as the battle goes on 2) Ditto can do this exact same thing with less risk and more momentum.
The third is by stealing offensive power from offensive Pokemon. This has been the most discussed so far and is the primary reason the council is looking at it. By Transforming into offensive Pokémon you can threaten the opposing team without being immediately threatened yourself. Because of their absurd HP stats Chansey and Blissey will be able to 1v1 almost any offensive Pokemon they get the opportunity to Transform into.
However this complaint overlooks two key factors. First is that Transform users, as I said above, do not get to choose what they effect with Transform. They cannot choose to Transform into an offensive Pokemon, and if the opponent lets a Transform user turn into something that can break their team then that opponent made a tactical blunder, to put it mildly.
The second is that many offensive Pokemon have the capability of threatening Chansey. A Chansey that transforms after tanking a powerful hit is a Chansey that lost its main asset: its enormous HP pool.
The fact that this is the most discussed and alluded to issue comes out of the fact that we are looking at Transform too much like we do Imposter; as something to steal offensive momentum from the opponent by instantly replacing yourself with a superior version of the opponent, whether it be superior in power (Pikachu or Lucky Punch Chansey in BH), Speed (Choice Scarf Imposter in anything), or bulk (again Chansey). Transform cannot effectively or reliably provide counterplay to offensive Pokemon that the Transformer (robot in disguise) did not already counter.
The fourth is through memes like Imprison-form and these honestly don't even warrant discussion.
Not to be rude, but you never had your physical attacker get 1v1'd by transform chans and it shows
Hi! I'm Don, leading cause of pleads to ban transform and high ladder player using a team that looks a bit like this, and I believe that this post, at the very least, doesn't give Transform full credit for what it can do. Let's start with this:
Transform is more powerful than Drampa gives it credit for
While technically true, people don't throw a dice when deciding what mon to switch. Chansey and Blissey invite a certian type of crowd to switch into them: physical attackers. This mean to most of the time you can reliably predict what is coming, and while it doesnt mean you can instantly turn whatever is in front into a danger for your opponent, it does mean that you can plan ahead with transform. You can come in on a special attacker, force it out because you are Chansey, and where in normal play it would have meant that a physical attacker gets in and chansey gets a status off, a chance to heal, a bit of damage, rock, or to pivot out, Chansey can now turn the matchup on its head and become capable of at-worst, turn the matchup into a speed tie, but most commonly beating the opposing pokemon. Unlike the previously mentioned outcomes this is instantly and near universally threatening and has no inmunities or counterplay that arent running taunt/sub on every special attacker. You can send in something like excadrill that is inmunne to thunder wave and toxic, or just accept them and still be able to force out Chansey. You can stay on chansey instead of switching out when tries to pivot, racking up damage for the next time it tries to comeback. You can just accept that rocks are a part of the game and have your rock weak mons run boots.
To not get into a bad position due to Transform you have to just send a fairly non-threatening wall into Chans, which cant actually threaten Chans beyond knock off most of the time, and Chans use this forced switch to pivot out, all the while never being in much danger herself.
This is what makes Transform good: it makes putting Chansey in danger hard.
Taunt and sub do reliably protect you from Transform, but taunt isnt a widely spread move, and Chansey can still seismic toss and break subs from most pokemon, even if they run max hp.
While partially true for Blissey, Eviolite Chansey has as much physical bulk as Weezing. Weezing is not notoriously frail. Chansey can somewhat take some physical attacks if they arent extremely strong such as:
252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 223-264 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Fun fact: Excadrill can't reliably 1v1 Chansey without prior damage, a free turn to setup, or band, as chansey is capable of Transforming if excadrill tries to setup and turn the matchup into a speed tie
A large number of the Pokémon they would like to Transform into can either heavily dent them, potentially providing them with no way to recover before they come in again, outright KO them, set up a Substitute, or Taunt them. If they are already set up you will likely die instead of stealing their boosts because, you know, set up mon hit hard.
True for everything said here, but the bolded part should have a disclaimer: "Only applicable for physical attackers, Secret Sword users and Psyshock/Psystrike Psychic types)
Proof:
+2 252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Oblivion Wing vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 180-213 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Highest SpA from all viable special mons and it barely does 30 at best at +2.
It might learn knock off and taunt, but my point still stands: being at +2 isn't enough to threaten Chansey.
Now onto another issues the meta has
Ghosts
Ghosts lack a reliable check in the current meta
Asstral Barrage is of course the poster boy for this issue, as it allows ghosts previously limited by the fact that they only 3hko and 2hko most of the meta to turns those 3hkos into 2hkos and those 2hkos into Ohkos. Bulk is no longer a reliable check to it. You need to use bulky checks such as: Tyranitar (the other darks are either not viable or not bulky enough), the blobs, and porygon 2 (only viable in TR). Those are the only viable mons that can take an Asstral Barrage without having their butts blown up. Now this would be already banworthy but you wont believe what little secret they have to tell you:
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 322-380 (45.8 - 54%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 640-754 (91 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 447-530 (110.6 - 131.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Blacephalon Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 384-452 (95 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Blacephalon Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 410-484 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nothings sacred in this meta.
As to what to ban? Tough choice. Asstral might be the easy one to point, but Secret Sword does make many more special attackers harder to deal with such as Volcarona
Urshifu
Urshifu has no reliable checks, you arent safe.
To even think of "reliably" checking urshifu you need a Fairy. Everything else can and will drop to a boosted CC or Wicked Blow. Fairies have a high chance of getting dropped by gunk shot, or a Poison jab if urshifu opted for a stronger boosting move such as SD or DD. Nothing comes close to the level of universal thread of ursh due to how broke Wicked Blow because is a 120 bp move inmune to all power dropping strats but burns. Urshifu could run a cartidge legal set and id still cause this situation. Please remove this from the meta.
Hi everyone! Eggs McGee from Council here, just checking in with some metagame changes!
SKETCHMONS UPDATES:
Astral Barrage and Secret Sword have been Restricted
Astral Barrage: The infamous donkey move has proven itself banworthy once again. A strong and spammable 120bp drawback-free STAB move gives Ghost-types like Gengar and Blacephalon a major upgrade over their old STAB options. Shadow Ball's 3HKOs and 2HKOs are turned into 2HKOs and OHKOs with the massive 50% power boost from Astral Barrage. The incredibly dangerous Ghost types were difficult to both build for and play around, as the only solid switch ins to Astral Barrage are Normal- and Dark-types (take notes, this will be coming up later), both of which can often be chipped with coverage moves into 2HKO range, or tricked a Choice item to significantly impede their ability to check the Ghosts. Because of this incredibly limited counterplay to this strong, drawback-free move, Astral Barrage has been restricted.
Secret Sword: Secret Sword's semi-unique mechanic of using defense over special defense to calculate damage proves incredibly useful to a variety of special attackers. Pokemon without special fighting coverage, like Volcarona and Blacephalon, use Secret Sword to both bolster coverage and deal with important checks like Chansey and Tyranitar, while Pokemon like Latios and Alakazam (who would otherwise rely on Aura Sphere/Focus Blast) are able to deal with those same checks much easier. Secret Sword enables lots of dangerous special attackers to muscle past Steel, Dark, and Normal types that would otherwise stop them in their tracks. On a familiar note, two of the most dangerous Secret Sword users are Gengar and Blacephalon, as their checks are forced to find out if these dangerous special attackers are running the powerful STAB Astral Barrage or the dangerous Secret Sword to blow through them. As a result, Secret Sword has been restricted.
Rillaboom, Urshifu-Single-Strike, and Zeraora have been Banned
Rillaboom: It's no secret what Rillaboom does in Sketchmons. Powerful priority STAB in Grassy Glide and a pivoting move in U-turn form the bread and butter of its Choice Band set, while replacing U-turn with Swords Dance allows it to act as a dangerous breaker and sweeper. However, Sketchmons gives Rillaboom the ability to pick which of its checks and counters actually beat it. Pyro Ball allows Rillaboom to OHKO Steel- and Grass-types hoping to switch in to a Grassy Glide, Bolt Strike demolishes Flying types trying to do the same, Diamond Storm destroys Flying and Fire mons, and Close Combat can be used to let Rillaboom beat Steel types and continue its sweep without an Attack drop. Due to its frankly absurd power and difficulty in checking, Rillaboom has been banned.
Urshifu-Single-Strike: The Broken Bear is back at it again. Starting out as a bit of a sleeper pick, Urshifu quickly became infamous for doing the exact same things that got it banned in OU, just slightly better. Banded Urshifu can opt for Gunk Shot over Poison Jab to nail Fairies, while sets utilizing setup are no longer limited to Bulk Up, instead being able to choose between Dragon Dance, No Retreat, and Swords Dance, all having their own incredibly dangerous benefits to Urshifu's sweeping and breaking capabilities. At the same time, Urshifu's checks are no better at checking it, and Dragon Dance and No Retreat (as well as +2 Sucker Punch) make it much harder to revenge kill. Because of its frankly overwhelming power, Urshifu-Single-Strike has been banned.
Zeraora: BoltBeam. That's why it's getting banned. Thanks to Sketch, Zeraora can utilize Plasma Fists alongside either Triple Axel or an Ice-Type Multi-Attack to blow through standard Electric-type switchins like Grass and Ground types. With this combo covering most of the metagame, Zeraora is free to run multple utility moves, with the most common set rounding out its moveset with Bulk Up and Taunt. Being the fastest (relevant) unboosted Pokemon in the format is a big positive too, as it hits nearly everything neutrally or supereffectively while also outspeeding most of the metagame. As drampa's grandpa points out, even without defensive investment Zeraora can take some hits pretty easily at +1, and proceed to blow up mons like Rillaboom and Tapu Bulu with a super effective 120bp Ice move. This powerful combination of attributes has resulted in Zeraora being banned.
Thanks for sticking with me through this post, and more importantly, thank you for playing Sketchmons! We look forward to developing this format even more in the coming weeks!
trick is to punish pokes that can wall it, astral barrage just utterly destroys everything in the late game, fiery dance is also a nice substitute for it
cus holy moly 50% chance to up spatk I'll take it, and finally will-o-wisp just for some control(cus i cant think of a 4th move for it)
Edit: Since astral barrage ia banned guess I'll stick to fiery dance
Astral Barrage
No Retreat
Magearna Secret Sword
Sticky Web
Surging Strikes
Transform** Urshifu-Single-Strike
Zeraora* Rillaboom*
*Not previously on the radar
**Suspect test in progress
Definitely agree with the new wave of bans. Remaining on the watch list we have No Retreat, Magearna, Sticky Web, and Surging Strikes. No Retreat, in my opinion, is still worth looking at but I don't know whether I'd say it's overpowered; most of its prominent abusers have counterplay options and it can only be used once per battle, which severely limits its use, obviously. Magearna is pretty dumb. Even without Secret Sword, it can still take advantage of No Retreat, Blue Flare, Shore Up, etc... honestly I think just about any sketched move could push it over the edge, and even without sketching a move I think it's still arguably broken. Sticky Web really doesn't seem like a problem. Surging Strikes is annoying at times but I don't think its abusers are powerful enough to warrant a ban. I don't have an opinion on Transform yet. I don't really have any other concerns right now, except maybe Strength Sap; it's kinda bs.
While we are talking about Transform, I think that people overlook other Pokemon as users.
Clefable @ Choice Scarf/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Transform
- Trick/Moonblast
- Teleport/Moonblast
- Moonlight/Soft-Boiled
While this set seems pretty sus dumb, Clefable is arguably the second best transformer (if you count Chansey and Blissey for being number one that is) in the meta, due to its ability in Unaware. This means Clefable is able to Transform on more physical attackers and even some special attackers that Chansey/Blissey could not. Namely anything without Mold Breaker, Sunsteel Strike, Moongeist Beam, Photon Geyser, and lower boosting Special Sweepers.
This set has Transform, for obvious reasons, Trick for when you are playing against defensive teams and want to cripple a wall, Teleport to bring in another teammate safely in, Moonlight for compatability reasons, and alternatively replace Trick/Teleport with Moonblast and if you replace Teleport use Soft-Boiled as your healing move.
The stat spread is set up the way it is in order to make sure Clefable Transforms after the opponent uses an attack. You don’t want to take a +2 Rock Blast from Cloyster after copying it, or a +1 Dragon Ascent from Dragonite with Dragonite’s stats. Also Transforming last means that if they just boost more, you won’t fall behind on boosts. That lower speed will also be ignored entirely after Choice Scarf and Transforming.
Additionally, Transform and Imposter have trouble against Hawlucha due to its Unburden, the effects of which can not be copied with Transform. Clefable does however have a work around, which is to just KO Hawlucha with Moonblast. So long as Hawlucha doesn’t have Sunsteel Strike or Photon Geyser, Clefable is healthy, and is using Moonblast in its moveset, it can beat out Hawlucha easily.
Oh, and while we are at it, Clefable does get Imprison, but Imprison tactics are pretty hard to pull off even with Unaware.
Some other Pokemon you can use:
Similar to Clefable, but trades off some utility like Teleport and Trick for a resistance to Sunsteel Strike and even better physical bulk, which may be worth it.
Disguise guarantees Mimikyu can survive a set up sweeper’s hit at least once. It does lack utility, has far less HP, and it does worse against the Alolan Legendary signature moves, but Mimikyu is the most likely to remain healthy after Transforming.
Bisharp can have dual prio with BP and stuff like Pyro Ball to break other steels
Clef does have a great pool but cotton guard absolutely can put in work
Exca is the first one listed but all of the ground types (and a lot of mons in general, so I won't list it every time) love precipice blades; don't forget you bypass grassy terrain!
Ferro (and a lot of other tanks) can use anchor shot to great success
Lucha can use ascent to proc white herb sets easily (and not have to worry about terrain support, etc)
Melm with rapid spin / agility I personally think is super slept on and has the potential to be busted
Pelipper can use water spout to be more of an offensive presence!
Body press + iron Def pex is not necessarily amazing but really fun to use
(I need to get to sleep so I will do the rest later but it's a super cool list and we appreciate the effort!)
Heya, I've been playing this meta for about a week now, and I've been noticing a few things that seem a little poorly managed by the thread. Why, of all things, is Transform being suspected? Or if at all, why is anything being suspected? Banning 5 threats immediately and then suspecting something just says to me that the council is suspecting something for the sake of suspecting - and not only this, but it tends to be very against what the thread is calling for. If there's anything that the thread screams "suspect pls" it's Magearna, not Transform. Regarding some things that I think should be looked at over Transform:
No Retreat
No Retreat on any mon is still just as dumb as Clangorous Soul. Whilst it means that users of it are less variable in how they can play, if given support on a more offensive playstyle, No Retreat users can still be as effective as the ClangSoul abusers of the past metagame. Kyurem & Magearna are two excellent users of No Retreat that are practically impossible to stop once they have been given just one opportunity to set up, and many players have had to resort to using Prankster + Topsy-Turvy to answer these Pokemon reliably. There is no universally good answer to No Retreat aside from this, and given the amount of Pokemon with already constraining coverage like Nidoking, Tapu Lele and the Latis, it's no surprise to me that No Retreat still ends up being the problem at hand with dealing with a lot of these sweepers. It turns everything into a potent sweeper from the instant it's used, and that simply ends up putting too much strain on the teambuilder for me to believe that this is a healthy option to have.
Precipice Blades
Precipice Blades is a very dumb coverage move. The amount of Pokemon it safely hits on a range of Pokemon otherwise walled by Steels or Poisons is insane and the damage output is really incomparable to any other option. The likes of Blacephalon, Weavile and Kyurem are all excellent users of this that push Ground-type coverage to the limit; and abuse the ranges that Precipice Blades gives over Earthquake often. Most targets that would usually be able to beat these Pokemon with Earthquake end up getting turned into some rather slim ranges that can make answering Precipice Blades uncertain, as shown below:
safe answers that are turned into ranges:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 286-339 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 343-406 (87 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+1 200 Atk Kyurem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 292-344 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 200 Atk Kyurem Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 350-412 (86.6 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
200 Atk Kyurem Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 210-248 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200 Atk Kyurem Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 252-298 (92.9 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 200 Atk Kyurem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 280-330 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 200 Atk Kyurem Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 334-394 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 272-322 (74.7 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 328-386 (90.1 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Weavile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 302-356 (73.4 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 362-428 (88 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
212 Atk Life Orb Blacephalon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 146-174 (48 - 57.2%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
212 Atk Life Orb Blacephalon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 177-208 (58.2 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (this gets turned into a range with boots instead)
coverage options that get unlocked
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu in Grassy Terrain: 94-112 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 226-266 (65.6 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery (Aqua Tail, Substitute, Stealth Rock)
The calcs shown here I feel make it clear that Precipice Blades is not just an issue that regards some Pokemon having too many good coverage issues in Sketch but rather it is too powerful as a general coverage move.
Kyurem
Kyurem is a mon I've been trying out a lot in Sketch, and I have to be honest, Sketch Kyurem does not have a lot of good counterplay. Nasty Plot sets are practically guaranteed to get a KO, and Substitute + Dragon Dance sets are really difficult to wall in general, as well as stop sweeping. I'm not even sure what answers this - about the closest I've gotten is Unaware Clefable, which can beat Sub + DD if Kyurem isn't lucky, but this loses to Plot as far as I know. And whilst it does have a few priority moves that can hit it super effectively, none of them are really strong enough to OHKO / significantly damage it, and this really brings up a dilemma of how to effectively answer it. What can you really use (that isn't getting lucky with speed ties) to properly answer this?
I don't necessarily think these next four threats are broken, but I think that these should be looked out for more than Transform.
Magearna
I don't actually think Magearna is broken - but it is an alternate solution to banning No Retreat and even if No Retreat is banned, it still may come up as a major issue later on in the metagame. As for now, I think that the defensive sets are a nice addition to the metagame, and Specs with Earth Power / Blue Flare is still an excellent wallbreaker that's worth looking out for.
Tapu Bulu (Grassy Glide, maybe?)
Likewise with Rillaboom, Tapu Bulu is exceptionally annoying to deal with, but unlike Rillaboom, Tapu Bulu does have some difficulties in trying to fit the right coverage move given that Grassy Glide is practically mandatory to deal anything significant to offensive teams. However, disregarding this issue, Tapu Bulu is still the same broken threat Rillaboom was - the only real difference is that something like Tangrowth or Amoonguss can now successfully wall most Tapu Bulus, and it's unlikely that any time soon, Tapu Bulus will start running Megahorn.
Blacephalon
Whilst Astral Barrage was removed from the metagame, Blacephalon still stands as one of the metagame's most powerful glass cannons. The issue regarding Blacephalon is that it now gets coverage for nearly every target it could think to hit in the metagame (Precipice Blades, Bolt Strike, Focus Blast, Close Combat), and this, in combination with the ability for it to boost its Speed whilst maintaining most of its mixed wallbreaking power generally makes Blacephalon a tough mon to revenge kill. Luckily for Blacephalon, it's difficult to get in and there are a few priority moves like Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch and Accelerock that stop it from snowballing too fast, but I do feel that the lesser viability of these moves compared to more powerful options can make Blacephalon a little frustrating to beat.
Hawlucha
I don't actually think Hawlucha is like most of the other examples here - it IS handlable defensively, but the major issue with it is how heavily punishing Hawlucha is for getting the coverage option wrong. Some examples below:
Triple Axel:
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 474-564 (146.7 - 174.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 414-492 (108 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 261-309 (92.8 - 109.9%) -- approx. 62.5% chance to OHKO
Bolt Strike:
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 332-392 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 280-330 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 262-310 (86.1 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 342-404 (85.5 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 336-396 (97.6 - 115.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 183-216 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
As you can see, most of these calcs either require minimal chip or are outright OHKOs on what should be safe answers. What doesn't help Hawlucha's case is that it's an excellent fit on HO, regardless of archetype - as long as it can get the Terrain boost off, it can still end up forcing a lategame clean simply based on its last moveslot due to its absolutely ridiculous Speed tier with Unburden. This is probably the mon that frustrates me most on the second half of this list right now.
Melmetal @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Substitute - Dragon Dance
I initially considered this as a threat to look at but this mon is very tough to build around reliably at the moment. None-the-less, access to Dragon Dance somewhat patches up Melmetal's lack of Speed and gives it the ability to flinch things much more reliably. Fun (possibly?)
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- U-turn / Aqua Jet
Knock Off is actually a very powerful move on Urshifu-R for multiple reasons - the main ways of beating Urshifu-R often involve contact punishes, and Knock Off removes most of these. Not only is it useful for chipping down other Pokemon, but it also helps deal with Slowbro, one of Urshifu-R's best answers.
Simple guaranteed blanket check to sweepers. Can force a lot of 50/50s between predicting its ability and trying to pivot around its vastly improved coverage.
Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Bolt Strike
- Ice Shard
- Shell Smash
Hope their Steel-type / Fire-type doesn't beat you, then either Bolt Strike or flinch everything to death. Haven't used this yet because Kyurem & Bulu just make it hard to use but this seems broken on paper.
Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Bolt Strike
- Ice Shard
- Shell Smash
Hope their Steel-type / Fire-type doesn't beat you, then either Bolt Strike or flinch everything to death. Haven't used this yet because Kyurem & Bulu just make it hard to use but this seems broken on paper.
King’s Rock is banned in this meta. Without it, Cloyster is still pretty amazing in this meta. If you can deal with Grassy Glide or Prankster Topsy-Turvy, Cloyster wrecks shop after Shell Smash.
So I've watch some simple beam strats on youtube and kinda inspired me to try one, so chansey is basically the setup for gardevoir, chancey itself opens a lot of opportunites to fire simple beam and support gardevoir from the back lines, Then gardevoir just needs to switch in to trace the simple then click no retreat to get that sweet boost then congrats your officially broken
Tho if there is any suggestions to make it more fun it would be nice
Will-O-Wisp 
Trick Room 
Destiny Bond 
Perish Song 
Baneful Bunker 
Leech Seed 
Astral Barrage: The infamous donkey move has proven itself banworthy once again. A strong and spammable 120bp drawback-free STAB move gives Ghost-types like Gengar and Blacephalon a major upgrade over their old STAB options. Shadow Ball's 3HKOs and 2HKOs are turned into 2HKOs and OHKOs with the massive 50% power boost from Astral Barrage. The incredibly dangerous Ghost types were difficult to both build for and play around, as the only solid switch ins to Astral Barrage are Normal- and Dark-types (take notes, this will be coming up later), both of which can often be chipped with coverage moves into 2HKO range, or tricked a Choice item to significantly impede their ability to check the Ghosts. Because of this incredibly limited counterplay to this strong, drawback-free move, Astral Barrage has been restricted.
Secret Sword: Secret Sword's semi-unique mechanic of using defense over special defense to calculate damage proves incredibly useful to a variety of special attackers. Pokemon without special fighting coverage, like Volcarona and Blacephalon, use Secret Sword to both bolster coverage and deal with important checks like Chansey and Tyranitar, while Pokemon like Latios and Alakazam (who would otherwise rely on Aura Sphere/Focus Blast) are able to deal with those same checks much easier. Secret Sword enables lots of dangerous special attackers to muscle past Steel, Dark, and Normal types that would otherwise stop them in their tracks. On a familiar note, two of the most dangerous Secret Sword users are Gengar and Blacephalon, as their checks are forced to find out if these dangerous special attackers are running the powerful STAB Astral Barrage or the dangerous Secret Sword to blow through them. As a result, Secret Sword has been restricted.
Rillaboom: It's no secret what Rillaboom does in Sketchmons. Powerful priority STAB in Grassy Glide and a pivoting move in U-turn form the bread and butter of its Choice Band set, while replacing U-turn with Swords Dance allows it to act as a dangerous breaker and sweeper. However, Sketchmons gives Rillaboom the ability to pick which of its checks and counters actually beat it. Pyro Ball allows Rillaboom to OHKO Steel- and Grass-types hoping to switch in to a Grassy Glide, Bolt Strike demolishes Flying types trying to do the same, Diamond Storm destroys Flying and Fire mons, and Close Combat can be used to let Rillaboom beat Steel types and continue its sweep without an Attack drop. Due to its frankly absurd power and difficulty in checking, Rillaboom has been banned.
Zeraora: BoltBeam. That's why it's getting banned. Thanks to Sketch, Zeraora can utilize Plasma Fists alongside either Triple Axel or an Ice-Type Multi-Attack to blow through standard Electric-type switchins like Grass and Ground types. With this combo covering most of the metagame, Zeraora is free to run multple utility moves, with the most common set rounding out its moveset with Bulk Up and Taunt. Being the fastest (relevant) unboosted Pokemon in the format is a big positive too, as it hits nearly everything neutrally or supereffectively while also outspeeding most of the metagame. As drampa's grandpa points out, even without defensive investment Zeraora can take some hits pretty easily at +1, and proceed to blow up mons like Rillaboom and Tapu Bulu with a super effective 120bp Ice move. This powerful combination of attributes has resulted in Zeraora being banned.
