Metagame Sketchmons

[ReyPescado]

Sunsteel is really a cool move despite not being STAB and offering bad coverage overall except hitting fairies, and i'm glad those kind of moves appeared in sun/moon. Sunsteel also allows Dragonite to bypass Unaware from Clefable which can be noticed somehow.

EDIT: Iron Head should never been used for Steel STABs or coverage unless you already sketched something else.

Well not only does it hit common fairy mons such as the Tapus, and Mimikyu, it also hits rock types like Mega Aero, Ttar, and Terrakion, who would otherwise go toe to toe with Dnite. And yes the ability to hit unaware clefable is nice. (:

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

After using Spore Dugtrio for a while, I think it's just as uncompetitive as the HypnoGar in Ubers and it's definitely a problem. It's able to basically get around the Sleep Clause, in the sense that it prevents the sleep mon to be a Sleep fodder. And yeah, right now Dugtrio is just as troublesome as Mega Gengar in Ubers. It now can Sleep, setup sub and freely

Maybe you think, "hey, only Spore is the problem, it won't be a problem once Spore, Lovely Kiss and other high accuracy sleep moves are banned." Remember that Mega Gengar in Ues uses Hypnosis, which only has 60% Accuracy and it makes Ubers extend the Sleep Clause to prevent Sleep trap.

I am thinking of a ban of Arena Trap + Sleep inducing moves. This includes ALL Sleep inducing moves (Spore, Sleep Powder, Lovely Kiss, Grasswhistle, Sing and Hypnosis). I know that this is basically a complex ban, but the complex ban is justified in this thread. But if this is too complex, maybe just ban Dugtrio or Arena Trap as a whole? What do you guys think?

 

[ReyPescado]

After using Spore Dugtrio for a while, I think it's just as uncompetitive as the HypnoGar in Ubers and it's definitely a problem. It's able to basically get around the Sleep Clause, in the sense that it prevents the sleep mon to be a Sleep fodder. And yeah, right now Dugtrio is just as troublesome as Mega Gengar in Ubers. It now can Sleep, setup sub and freely

Maybe you think, "hey, only Spore is the problem, it won't be a problem once Spore, Lovely Kiss and other high accuracy sleep moves are banned." Remember that Mega Gengar in Ues uses Hypnosis, which only has 60% Accuracy and it makes Ubers extend the Sleep Clause to prevent Sleep trap.

I am thinking of a ban of Arena Trap + Sleep inducing moves. This includes ALL Sleep inducing moves (Spore, Sleep Powder, Lovely Kiss, Grasswhistle, Sing and Hypnosis). I know that this is basically a complex ban, but the complex ban is justified in this thread. But if this is too complex, maybe just ban Dugtrio or Arena Trap as a whole? What do you guys think?

I think the whole "comples ban" ideology is pretty trivial, if a balance change should be done to help the tier that is what should be done. This strategy is obviously extremely unhealthy for the meta. And I don't think doing a complex ban should change what needs to be done.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

After using Spore Dugtrio for a while, I think it's just as uncompetitive as the HypnoGar in Ubers and it's definitely a problem. It's able to basically get around the Sleep Clause, in the sense that it prevents the sleep mon to be a Sleep fodder. And yeah, right now Dugtrio is just as troublesome as Mega Gengar in Ubers. It now can Sleep, setup sub and freely

Maybe you think, "hey, only Spore is the problem, it won't be a problem once Spore, Lovely Kiss and other high accuracy sleep moves are banned." Remember that Mega Gengar in Ues uses Hypnosis, which only has 60% Accuracy and it makes Ubers extend the Sleep Clause to prevent Sleep trap.

I am thinking of a ban of Arena Trap + Sleep inducing moves. This includes ALL Sleep inducing moves (Spore, Sleep Powder, Lovely Kiss, Grasswhistle, Sing and Hypnosis). I know that this is basically a complex ban, but the complex ban is justified in this thread. But if this is too complex, maybe just ban Dugtrio or Arena Trap as a whole? What do you guys think?

I would advise you to ban either spore+lovely kiss (and maybe sleep powder) or ban arena trap. The complex ban of ubers is a dubious precedent, considering how little justification it actually had, and our OM leaders have put out there thoughts on it here:

In response to the precedent with Ubers and HypnoGar, I think that is a somewhat dubious decision that they're just rationalizing in a way that makes it more palpable to the PR crowd. Ubers is not Smogon's all-inclusive metagame (AG is), so it shouldn't get special treatment. I'm almost certain TI shares a similar mindset based on his post in that thread.

Anything Goes exists. It is supposed to be metagame without clauses and bans. Ubers was declared a tier so shouldn't it be treated as such?.

In response to the decision to ban Stag+sleep instead of MGar.

As far as banning all sleep moves go, I don't think that's needed. Hypnogar was lucky- it "broke the sleep clause", was exceptionally fast, was strong, had a great typing, and could hit every faster Pokemon super effectively. Dugtrio is much slower, can't trap fliers, and is far more priority prone.

 

[EchoGaia]

One of the solution would be to ban trapping abilities like shadow tag and arena Trap completely. Sleep inducing moves aren't the problem, it's the fact that Pokemon with trapping abilities can sketch it. Banning all the trapping abilities seems fair to me, and you avoid the complex ban this way.

Edit: If Shadow Tag is already banned, just ban Arena Trap then.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

After using Spore Dugtrio for a while, I think it's just as uncompetitive as the HypnoGar in Ubers and it's definitely a problem. It's able to basically get around the Sleep Clause, in the sense that it prevents the sleep mon to be a Sleep fodder. And yeah, right now Dugtrio is just as troublesome as Mega Gengar in Ubers. It now can Sleep, setup sub and freely

Maybe you think, "hey, only Spore is the problem, it won't be a problem once Spore, Lovely Kiss and other high accuracy sleep moves are banned." Remember that Mega Gengar in Ues uses Hypnosis, which only has 60% Accuracy and it makes Ubers extend the Sleep Clause to prevent Sleep trap.

I am thinking of a ban of Arena Trap + Sleep inducing moves. This includes ALL Sleep inducing moves (Spore, Sleep Powder, Lovely Kiss, Grasswhistle, Sing and Hypnosis). I know that this is basically a complex ban, but the complex ban is justified in this thread. But if this is too complex, maybe just ban Dugtrio or Arena Trap as a whole? What do you guys think?

If this goes through would Spore + Magnet Pull also be looked at? I know it's much more limited, and Magnezone and Magneton aren't nearly as fast and don't have Hone Claws or anything, but in specific circumstances it has the potential to do exactly the same thing as you are discussing with Arena Trap.

I haven't played against Sporetrio yet so I don't know whether it should be banned. Grass types, Poison Heal, Lum Berries, Magic Bounce, etc. etc. can all counter the sleep aspect, but the problem as always with trapping seems to be you don't get to decide to send in your counter, the Dugtrio user decides the matchup. I kind of hate trapping in any meta, so I would absolutely be on board with a limitation on it just as my knee-jerk reaction.

 

[pyuk]

I think the problem here is that Gengarite + Hypnosis is way more complex than it needs to be, as somewhat-reliable-Sleep-inducing move + trapping ability has exactly the same justification as an extension of the Sleep Clause without the frankly shortsighted specificity. That said, the Sleep Clause wasn't originally a ban of any kind. It was (and still is) an actual change to mechanics that prevented Pokemon from being put to sleep by the opponent if one of their allies had already suffered the same fate. As such, the solution most in keeping with the original clause is to prevent Pokemon trapped by the opponent from being put to sleep by them. However, I'm pretty sure that kind of change falls outside the jurisdiction of an OM, so banning trapping abilities + sleep moves is probably the best we can hope for.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sketchmons-493862733

Sleep + Trapping is really, really dumb. Very little counter play. Sleep Turns determines who wins a lot of the time.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Ok. I now see what Sleep trapping can do. I now decide that from now on, Arena Trap + Sleep moves in a set is banned. This includes ALL moves that you'd find in /ms sleep, to prevent more complexity.

Yes, this is a complex ban, BUT this complex ban is justified in Policy Review as the extension of Sleep Clause (I believe you all know this). So this kind of ban should be allowed.

Tagging The Immortal

 

[Fissure]

After 10 days, my journey on the Sketchmons ladder has come to an end. I will describe briefly things that I've seen and things that I've used.

My Journey

snorlax- I used snorlax very early on in my journey. The idea of belly drum and e-speed together sounds very good and it kinda is. The best way to deal with this mon for me was using sableye or a faster e-speed user. I abandoned snorlax about halfway through my journey for a different belly drum user.
Snorlax @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam/Crunch

Metagross- I used metagross throughout my entire journey. Shift gear was my move of choice for metagross. Mega-Metagross is a fast mon that hits hard and can flinch the opponent. Enough said. Metagross can't handle opposing Celesteela very well so i always had a mon that could whenever i used metagross.
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Iron Head

Sableye- I used sableye very early on when i saw other snorlax. Sableye's only role was to burn things and to topsy-turvy stat boosts. I stopped using it when Mimikyu started to become popular since it couldn't do it's sole job against it.

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Topsy-Turvy
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off

Mimikyu- Mimikyu replaced snorlax as my belly drum user. Mimikyu basically gets a free b-drum because of disguise. Unaware Quagsire was my answer to this mon.
Mimikyu @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough

Genesect- Once I learned that I could use genesect, I put it on every team. Scarf genesect helped me with things like serperior, pheromosa, etc...
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 SpA / 244 Spe
Naughty Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Thousand Arrows

Other cool things- Overheat, Leaf storm, taunt Serperior. Transform Chansey. Stealth rocks quagsire. Spore/Oblivion wing Thundurus. Blue Flare Magnezone. 

My newest team

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Earthquake

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Heal Bell

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 SpA / 244 Spe
Naughty Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Thousand Arrows

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Thunder Wave

Mimikyu @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Iron Head

Thank you Sketchmons ladder, it's been a crazy ride!

 

[Boomburst]

Things like endeavor shedinja and final ganbit blissey should be strictly banned

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I don't get why some people complained about Endeavor Shedinja (like the poster above) and Transform Chansey.

Regarding Transform Chansey, yes it is annoying, but it's not Imposter. You don't have to Imposterproof. All you need to do is:
1. Switch your +1/+2 sweepers and accept that your sweep is stopped by Chansey
2. Make sure your sweeper is able to 1HKO Chansey (which is obviously very difficult considering it's bulk).
3. Taunt

Option #1 is more preferable because you don't need to carry a specific solution like option #2 and #3. Chansey only troubles you IF you don't have an open mind to choose option #1 OR you fill your team with 6 setup sweepers.

Regarding Endeavor Shedinja, yes it's also annoying. But it's still a Shedinja. It still dies to pretty much any passive damage from hazard, status, weather, etc. And it's not completely immune to direct attacks either, because it's not BH Sturdinja (or I'd have banned it). It shouldn't be that hard to handle. It's just more annoying thanks to Endeavor.

 

[BoCo365]

Going off of what Why Nerdy said, this is just like BH Shedninja, except it's so much easier to kill. You don't have to dedicate a min to it, just bring status, Rickey Helmet, hazards, or weather and it's dead.

 

[Fissure]

I agree with Why Nerdy and BoCo365. Transform Chansey and Endeavor Shedinja in my opinion are annoying, but not broken, meta changing or defining. Transform chansey has to use a turn to transform and hope that it lives a hit. If a person sends out chansey against a mon that has set-up, chances are they are going to transform or they are trying to play mind games and get you to switch. If you do decide to stay in and you don't ohko the chansey and it uses transform, that chansey then has to win a speed tie to have a chance to survive another attack and potentially ko your mon ( depending on how much hp it has left). Also transform fails if you are behind a substitute so maybe consider running sub if you are that terrified of chansey. Endeavor Shedinja loses to hazards, status (burn, poison), rough skin, rocky helmet, iron barbs, hail, sand, etc. If for some reason you are still terrified of these two mons, here is the best set i could come up with on short notice that could handle both of these mons (it might not be the best set, but it's something)

Silvally-Ghost gimmick

Silvally-Ghost @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword/drain punch/close combat/ whatever fighting type move you want really
- Substitute/Toxic/Roar
Chansey can't Seismic toss you, can't toxic you if you run substitute, and can't hit you if it transforms (if you have roar, it can roar you out. If you have toxic, it can toxic you). Shedinja can't will-o-wisp you if you run substitute and can only shadow sneak and maybe x-scissor you. Toxic is an option if you don't want to 2hko shed (I'm saying 2hko cause focus sash) with multi attack and would rather poison it. Roar is there in case like b-drum mimikyu comes in and it still has a disguise up (situational i know, but an option nonetheless). Sub is the best 4th move imo. Feel free to changing the evs to deal with other specific stuff.

tl;dr: Chansey and Shedinja are fine in the meta

 

[Boomburst]

I agree with Why Nerdy and BoCo365. Transform Chansey and Endeavor Shedinja in my opinion are annoying, but not broken, meta changing or defining. Transform chansey has to use a turn to transform and hope that it lives a hit. If a person sends out chansey against a mon that has set-up, chances are they are going to transform or they are trying to play mind games and get you to switch. If you do decide to stay in and you don't ohko the chansey and it uses transform, that chansey then has to win a speed tie to have a chance to survive another attack and potentially ko your mon ( depending on how much hp it has left). Also transform fails if you are behind a substitute so maybe consider running sub if you are that terrified of chansey. Endeavor Shedinja loses to hazards, status (burn, poison), rough skin, rocky helmet, iron barbs, hail, sand, etc. If for some reason you are still terrified of these two mons, here is the best set i could come up with on short notice that could handle both of these mons (it might not be the best set, but it's something)

Silvally-Ghost gimmick

Silvally-Ghost @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword/drain punch/close combat/ whatever fighting type move you want really
- Substitute/Toxic/Roar
Chansey can't Seismic toss you, can't toxic you if you run substitute, and can't hit you if it transforms (if you have roar, it can roar you out. If you have toxic, it can toxic you). Shedinja can't will-o-wisp you if you run substitute and can only shadow sneak and maybe x-scissor you. Toxic is an option if you don't want to 2hko shed (I'm saying 2hko cause focus sash) with multi attack and would rather poison it. Roar is there in case like b-drum mimikyu comes in and it still has a disguise up (situational i know, but an option nonetheless). Sub is the best 4th move imo. Feel free to changing the evs to deal with other specific stuff.

tl;dr: Chansey and Shedinja are fine in the meta

they do not use TRANSFORM,they use FINAL GAMBIT

 

[Chloe]

they do not use TRANSFORM,they use FINAL GAMBIT

They actually use Transform more than Final Gambit, because Final Gambit is a crappy avoidable gimmick, that just offers a one for one trade at best. It isn't common, it isn't effective and it doesn't hurt the meta in any way by remaining there. Chansey and Blissey would much prefer to run Transform to completely halt setup spam, rather than just eliminate a single threat on the opposing team. The opponent can easily choose what Pokémon they'd like to sack off, and you're usually just 5v5 without the Pokémon they determine to be the weakest link in the matchup. Final Gambit Chansey and Blissey are definitely not banworthy by any means. If you're going to argue further, please use some sort of content to back it up.

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

they do not use TRANSFORM,they use FINAL GAMBIT

Let me add to this...
In making Blissey/Chansey have Final Gambit, you're voluntarily sacrificing one of the best walls in the game to... maybe KO an offensive threat?

Better ideas for that move include Will-o-Wisp, Perish Song, Spore, Nature's Madness (if you indeed want to go for the wallbreaking aspect with a passive wall), the previously and oft-mentioned Transform, and... Baton Pass, which I'll be speaking about now. (I can't believe I'm actually talking about Blissey in a light that's not bashing on it... *insert witty thing here*)

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure/Serene Grace
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
Hyper Voice/whatever special move/Seismic Toss
Calm Mind
Soft-Boiled
Baton Pass

This is actually an incredibly interesting take on Blissey, giving it actual momentum. It's Blissey because Chansey has pretty terrible Special Attack, and you'll not want to be Taunt bait/reliant on teammates that much. Also, if you manage to set up on something, you can enable stuff like this...

Xurkitree @ Normalium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
Timid/Modest Nature
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
Thunderbolt
Energy Ball
Dazzling Gleam/Tail Glow
Lovely Kiss

Basically better Z-Hypnosis Xurkitree. You actually have a decent chance at putting something to sleep and boosting your speed with this. Ideally, you'll want to use this strategy on something faster than Blissey, but slower than Xurkitree, for obvious reasons. If this gets set up... there's a pretty good chance your opponent's going to get swept horribly.

If you don't manage to find a slow enough target, just pass into Greninja or something, and attempt to sweep from there.

 

[RedSabre]

I find Dragon Ascent Mega Aerodactyl to a be a bit much for Sketchmons by virtue of its sheer power and speed. 135 attack and 150 speed, with access to a STAB Tough Claws boosted Dragon Ascent. Certain Pokémon do avoid the 2HKO from it, but it has sheer immense wallbreaking power with Dragon Ascent, and can do amazing feats like 2HKO standard Ferrothorn. It's just not broken enough to pass under the radar for a while, as it needs Stealth Rocks to do things like 2HKO Celesteela without relying on the miss chance of Stone Edge, but it does have great power. Again, not enough to break the tier, but just enough to cause some issues. This all my be the ramblings of a creative mind, though.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

After testing it for a few days, I'm considering to ban Spore. It's a sleep move with 100% Accuracy and no drawbacks. It makes many setup sweepers kinda ridiculous to deal with, similar to Darkrai in Ubers, and it can't even miss. I know there's counterplay in Grass types and Safety Goggles, and I'll be willing to do suspect if the community prefers that way instead of just banning it outright.

 

[Sylveon.]

So finally after playing a bit, I guess I could give my two cents on the metagame. Tbh the ladder is still pretty young, ReyPescado team is actually good for starters, but the amount of good players playing is pretty low and it's relatively easy to get past/peak the ladder.
As far as the meta-game is concerned, below are some of the major threats I encountered :

1) Shift Gear Mega-Gross : Once you take out steels this thing just sweeps. Excellent natural bulk and the funny thing is to outspeed scarf 110s at +2, it basically needs only 40 Speed EVs!!
2) Pheromosa : This thing gets Precipice Blades/Fire coverage now and is pretty sick if you are not prepared for it imo. But generally any decent team packs a check to it either in form of scarf mon( not a good idea due to beast boost) or Mantine.
3) Tapu Lele : Quiver Dance sets are pretty cool since it gets thunderbolt and stuff, but I have been liking scarf sets more due to their ability to perform more consistently.( Just give it Blue Flare or something and you got yourself best mega-pinsir revenge killer)
4) Mega-Pinsir : Damn strong, though the aerialate nerf hurts it as it is no longer able to pick up the 2hko on tank-chomp, pretty much the best hazard setter right now. Also prevalence of Tapu Lele hurts a lot, as it kind of depends on Extreme Speed a lot.
5) Kartana : Scarf Sets are dangerous due to their ability to lure common checks now, but it's still kind of meh. Though it gets Sun-steel strike to get past unaware.
6) Muk-Alola : Underrated imo, has the bulk to switch into stuff and gets recovery now too. With Poison Touch and ability to beat Tapus, it's quite effective if played well.
7) Jirachi : Sacred Fire.
8) Greninja : Can run basically any STAB option.
9) Kyurem-B : Disappointed me the most, I was really hyped since now it finally gets Physical Ice STAB. But it was pretty useless in most of the matches due to number of steels in the meta. Then I switched into conversion set with fusion bolt + ice beam + roost, but ice beam even at +1 was so pathetically weak that it failed to 2hko Tapu Bulu with ice beam since it was non-STAB. So I guess people can try Dragon Dance or Quiver Dance on it.
10) Aerodactyl : Really strong, but prevalence of phero and tank chomp hurts it's usage.

Well, that's pretty much it for now.

I have a team using which I peaked and is a good representation of the meta right now ::

Team :

Hide

Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Precipice Blades
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- V-create
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Blue Flare
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Haze
- Recover

Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Slack Off

Description ::

Hide

Team basically tries to let pheromosa break things apart using it's new found toy in precipice blades and employs bulky mega-gross(Outspeeds max 70s and after a rock polish scarf 110s) with rock polish to bait in steels and hit them with a massively powerful Tough Claws boosted V-Create and just be a powerful cleaner with Mash/Zen Headbutt, I even tried out Grass Knot over either coverage to lure quagsire. Garchomp does usual tank-chomp stuff and forms a really solid defensive core with muk-a and mantine. Where muk controls tapus mostly(except bulu as they generally have precipice blades, but you have bulky Mega-gross for that) and mantini controls shit like contrary serperior with haze and general things like greninja. Finally we have our scarfer in lele which guarantees a no sweep for mega pinsir if somehow it manages to set up and has blue flare to lure celesteela and metagross.

Replay of the team working : http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sketchmons-499573602

Peak ::

Hide

 

[pyuk]

So finally after playing a bit, I guess I could give my two cents on the metagame. Tbh the ladder is still pretty young, ReyPescado team is actually good for starters, but the amount of good players playing is pretty low and it's relatively easy to get past/peak the ladder.
As far as the meta-game is concerned, below are some of the major threats I encountered :

1) Shift Gear Mega-Gross : Once you take out steels this thing just sweeps. Excellent natural bulk and the funny thing is to outspeed scarf 110s at +2, it basically needs only 40 Speed EVs!!
2) Pheromosa : This thing gets Precipice Blades/Fire coverage now and is pretty sick if you are not prepared for it imo. But generally any decent team packs a check to it either in form of scarf mon( not a good idea due to beast boost) or Mantine.
3) Tapu Lele : Quiver Dance sets are pretty cool since it gets thunderbolt and stuff, but I have been liking scarf sets more due to their ability to perform more consistently.( Just give it Blue Flare or something and you got yourself best mega-pinsir revenge killer)
4) Mega-Pinsir : Damn strong, though the aerialate nerf hurts it as it is no longer able to pick up the 2hko on tank-chomp, pretty much the best hazard setter right now. Also prevalence of Tapu Lele hurts a lot, as it kind of depends on Extreme Speed a lot.
5) Kartana : Scarf Sets are dangerous due to their ability to lure common checks now, but it's still kind of meh. Though it gets Sun-steel strike to get past unaware.
6) Muk-Alola : Underrated imo, has the bulk to switch into stuff and gets recovery now too. With Poison Touch and ability to beat Tapus, it's quite effective if played well.
7) Jirachi : Sacred Fire.
8) Greninja : Can run basically any STAB option.
9) Kyurem-B : Disappointed me the most, I was really hyped since now it finally gets Physical Ice STAB. But it was pretty useless in most of the matches due to number of steels in the meta. Then I switched into conversion set with fusion bolt + ice beam + roost, but ice beam even at +1 was so pathetically weak that it failed to 2hko Tapu Bulu with ice beam since it was non-STAB. So I guess people can try Dragon Dance or Quiver Dance on it.
10) Aerodactyl : Really strong, but prevalence of phero and tank chomp hurts it's usage.

Well, that's pretty much it for now.

I have a team using which I peaked and is a good representation of the meta right now ::

Team :

Hide

Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Precipice Blades
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- V-create
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Blue Flare
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Haze
- Recover

Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Slack Off

Description ::

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Team basically tries to let pheromosa break things apart using it's new found toy in precipice blades and employs bulky mega-gross(Outspeeds max 70s and after a rock polish scarf 110s) with rock polish to bait in steels and hit them with a massively powerful Tough Claws boosted V-Create and just be a powerful cleaner with Mash/Zen Headbutt, I even tried out Grass Knot over either coverage to lure quagsire. Garchomp does usual tank-chomp stuff and forms a really solid defensive core with muk-a and mantine. Where muk controls tapus mostly(except bulu as they generally have precipice blades, but you have bulky Mega-gross for that) and mantini controls shit like contrary serperior with haze and general things like greninja. Finally we have our scarfer in lele which guarantees a no sweep for mega pinsir if somehow it manages to set up and has blue flare to lure celesteela and metagross.

Replay of the team working : http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sketchmons-499573602

Peak ::

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View attachment 75141

Any particular reason why you chose to sketch Recover on Mantine instead of just using Roost and sketching something else like Whirlwind or Rapid Spin?

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

K. I think I have seen enough evidence and complaints about how Spore is a problem. It's a 100% Sleep move, which means it can guarantee +1/+2. Because of that, it can pretty much get over most of the mons' checks and counters. I know that everyone in this meta can get around their checks and counters by using coverage, but Spore lets you get around your counter using pure force by hitting twice or boosting.

Another thing to that I want to address is how impossible to play around Spore. This is why SO many cases, practice>theorymoning. In theory, you can block Spore by using a Grass type/Safety Goggles, but in practice, it's pretty much impossible to predict which mon uses Spore, because literally ANY mon with Swords dance/Calm Mind/or even a SUBSTITUTE benefit from it (Spore + Substitute is a working strategy AND everyone gets it). Because of this, you pretty much required to carry multiple Grass types/Safety Goggles holder JUST to prevent your mon from Sleeping. And it can't even miss, making sleep is nearly guaranteed.

In conclusion, Spore in Sketchmons has very little counterplay. It's near impossible to stop from doing it's job. With this, I now announce that Spore is now banned from sketching. Remember that you can always use Spore from it's native users.

Tagging The Immortal

 

[Chloe]

Actually not anything particular, but mantine already had what the team needed - defog, it had good defensive stats and typing and haze. So I just sketched recover only because I had 1 slot left. And I don't like whirlwind in this case as I hate loosing to last mon set-ups like serperior which will eventually overcome mantine if I don't have haze. Also personally I find defog better than rapid spin.(Tbh I wanted to give it milk drink as I thought it'd be funny :3)

Shore Up actually completely outclasses Recover, as in Sand it gains 67% of Health and in other weathers it still continues to gain 50%. They both have 16 PP, and Tyranitar isn't necessarily uncommon. There is no reason to use Recover.

 

[Chloe]

Actually garchomp already has shore up and you can sketch each move only once, so I had no other option.

Oh didn't see that, I'm stupid sorry.

 

[MAMP]

K. I think I have seen enough evidence and complaints about how Spore is a problem. It's a 100% Sleep move, which means it can guarantee +1/+2. Because of that, it can pretty much get over most of the mons' checks and counters. I know that everyone in this meta can get around their checks and counters by using coverage, but Spore lets you get around your counter using pure force by hitting twice or boosting.

Another thing to that I want to address is how impossible to play around Spore. This is why SO many cases, practice>theorymoning. In theory, you can block Spore by using a Grass type/Safety Goggles, but in practice, it's pretty much impossible to predict which mon uses Spore, because literally ANY mon with Swords dance/Calm Mind/or even a SUBSTITUTE benefit from it (Spore + Substitute is a working strategy AND everyone gets it). Because of this, you pretty much required to carry multiple Grass types/Safety Goggles holder JUST to prevent your mon from Sleeping. And it can't even miss, making sleep is nearly guaranteed.

In conclusion, Spore in Sketchmons has very little counterplay. It's near impossible to stop from doing it's job. With this, I now announce that Spore is now banned from sketching. Remember that you can always use Spore from it's native users.

Tagging The Immortal

took long enough lol, it always baffled me that spore had stuck around in this tier for so long despite being the actual most broken shit. tho i think we should just ban sleep in general, ive seen ppl running garbage shit like lovely kiss and its just as cancerous as spore except theres more rng involved.

also why is belly drum still allowed? that shit is stupid broken on anything with a decently strong priority move, especially if it has the bulk/typing to take espeeds. mons like mmeta, mimikyu (this shit is stupid bc it gets a free turn of setup), conkeldurr, whatever. unless youre running unaware or some shit youre gonna get rocked, its really unhealthy.