I was on a 29-0 run then shit went down in the last game.
If you guys run into Demilogic on the ladder then you better lose against him ;)
my issue with the comparison to gambits is thatSmash spam at high levels tens to be beat by balance often enough. I kind of like to think of these teams as a "gambit" in chess. Where the strategy might be objectively not optimal, but if forces your opponent to have to make the "best move" for a consecutive turns at a time. If they do this they should win. Albeit, gambits and "smash spam" are a bit different in nature where one you need skill and the other at times not so much, but building a smash spam team, that doesn't lose to imposter is quite difficult at times so yeah.
From what I've heard, smash is most broken on like balance or bulky offense teams, not revolving around smash spam. Here, simply the pressure of a pokemon in the back waiting to click smash can influence the game a lot and cause a ton of pressure. However, pokemon not named Mega-Gengar are often difficult to improof with Smash and end up forcing a specific team structure to improof, which I believe is a balancing drawback. Shell Smash is also a really commital move, so it does come with its own respective risks, which have to be more carefully managed in a balance game. However, such pressure is something which I don't deem as unhealthy enough to warrant a ban. Various counterplay by pivoting into a mon that won't get ohkoed on smash, predicting with spec thief, prankster, unaware, and priority can all combat smash adequately well enough on balance. Due to the big risk in clicking smash, it's of my opinion that a reward to the player for finding such an opportunity to click it.
Granted there are also situations, where on preview someone may lose to a smash pokemon, such as one with a super effective move on the opposing player's prankster pokemon, or smash pdon which can desimate pokemon like unaware Arceus or prankster Zygaurd. I do believe it would be a bit rash of me to say "the team was just bad if it lost to "x" shell smasher" or if it wasn't prepped for pdon, but generally good team structures should have counterplay to such pokemon. Many random smashers and smash pdon can often be checked by imposter or shedinja, and most good teams should at least have a game plan around these. This is why, feats where someone can ladder to 100 games unbeaten (hi yolk) are possible. In a volatile meta this wouldn't have been very possible.
+----------------------------------------+ | Chansey | +----------------------------------------+ | Raw count: 5795 | | Avg. weight: 0.117258203935 | | Viability Ceiling: 92 | +----------------------------------------+ | Abilities | | Imposter 88.005% | | Fur Coat 5.620% | | Prankster 3.899% | | Unaware 2.209% | | Magic Bounce 0.151% | | Soundproof 0.049% | | Other 0.068% | +----------------------------------------+ | Items | | Eviolite 86.280% | | Choice Scarf 7.355% | | Shed Shell 3.676% | | Other 2.689% |
I think you are also not taking into account the Prankster Haze mon just being a losing matchup against the mon in question, as it's impossible to prepare for Smash Red Orb Groudon, Smash Mega Mewtwo X, and Smash Mega Gengar at the same time. If your Prankster ends up fainting, you effectively autolose unless the Smash mon in question also fainted. I also don't know what you're referring to after this, as Smash on MMY isn't preferred over MMX, and Spectral Thief is a mediocre choice for MMX. Mega Gengar is way better than Mega Mewtwo Y since it doesn't get ohkoed by literally any mon using U-turn at -1. Mega Mewtwo Y is a mon that prefers to come in, KO something, and get out as fast as possible since it's bulk is ass.Those who are arguing that Prankhazers are ineffective against Smash aren't taking into account the actual sacrifices required to handle those threats
Shell Smash isn't uncompetitive. People think it's overpowered. That's literally the reason it's getting suspected. I don't know what implication you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting people just build more checks against setup?I largely suspect that many people aren't frustrated because they genuinely believe this mechanic to be unfair, as much as they are inconvenienced by its potency against Balance/Status-Quo teams.
I think banning Focus Sash is a stupid idea, because Focus Sash enables Shell Smash, but otherwise is unused. Sash on Shedinja isn't as good as you think it is. What's the point of Focus Sash on Prankster and Scrappy mons? The former is typically Safety Goggles, Leftovers, or Rocky Helmet, and the latter is always Choice Scarf since Scrappy mons are always Final Gambit users. Focus Sash itself is not banworthy or it would have been brought up prior to or during this suspect test by other members. Also, Red Orb Groudon can't run Focus Sash and it's one of the premier smash sweepers.Removing Focus Sash from the meta would force Shell Smashers, and offense in general, to play more methodically, and use items that actually synergize with their moveset, rather than indiscriminately splashing the same item on to their teams.
Rocks aren't really a counterplay to smash sweepers, since it only delays the sweeper coming out rather than making them easier to check in general. And anyone who has their wincon be a smash sweeper is going to have multiple hazard removal mons. It's also a thing for teams who rely on Shedinja as well, so this isn't exactly unorthodox. It's also easy to scout with Imposter and doesn't take a high amount of turns to scout multiple mons. Yes, you might lose momentum once or twice bringing in Imposter, but you can safely figure out what you can bring in your Smash mon in on then start gaining massive momentum from there and potentially end up winning the game.Yes, Rocks are a known counterplay for 'Sash teams, however it is largely inexpensive for a player to splash a bulky Bouncer on their team, alongside a spinner/defogger in the event that hazards make it through.
Most of the stuff you listed loses to common Smash sweepers. Phazing moves are not as common as you think as only really Giratina runs Dragon Tail, and I haven't seen Whirlwind that often at high ladder. I already mentioned Imposter in that spoiler above. A ton of mons will only Smash if they have hazards up or will run Mold Breaker to invalidate Shedinja. Dazzling MMX is a common sight for priority mons that also beats Shedinja with Photon Geyser.Voting DNB. I don't see what's so bad about Shell Smash, considering there are a lot of counters for it, including but not limited to:
Some pokemon could use Unaware efficiently like Yveltal (against NormGar / some Shell Sash user/ Tail Glow User, and could check MMX if you burn it with Beak Blast). But I admit this kind of set are pretty rare.Unaware is bad and beaten by Photon Geyser/Moongeist/Sunsteel Strike.
It looks like the same thing but not. Shell Smash in SS BH was ban before the first DLC (if I remember right) . When the meta doesn't have good special attacker (because they are walled by Ice Scales Dark-typed Pokemon like Umbreon or Incineroar). When the meta doesn't have good mixed wall... In this meta, Shell Smash was simply too hard to handle.It was just impossible to check a Reshiram with his STAB, Close Combat, and Shell Smash. Just for that Shell Smash was unhealthy for the BH meta. On top of that, we have got the classic Spam Shell Smash HO, they are just too strong... In SM BH, we have MMX Spam HO but even if it is strong, you can deal with it sometimes...In SS BH, Shell Smash HO obliterate the meta, Shell Smash obliterate the meta, and it was so unhealthy, I was disgusted with BH at this time.Finally, why Shell Smash is banned in SS? Isn't the arguments valid is SM too even if the metagame is different? Ngl I feel the SS BH meta is much more balanced and pleasant to play at a competitive point of view than the SM BH.