Resource SM Doubles OU Viability Rankings

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regular metagross deserve to be ranked imo. Loses out on crucial speed, but it's still bulky and clear body is an amazing ability. Tectonic Rage Metagross has been a thing.
I think the most important part is the defensive typing, beating psychic spam easily as well as common fire types without using a mega. Agree on the ranking metagross -> 4 imo
 
Rotom-Heat 4 -> 3

I've been using a team with Rotom-H on it a bunch recently, and it has really overperformed. I think it's at least as good as Rotom-W, and maybe better. In comparison, Rotom-H is worse against Lando-T and waters (but you still have game against those things!), but is way better against steels, Zard, and Tapu Koko. Seriously, this thing's typing is phenomenal. A lot of times, I'll just be sitting in team preview and realize that Rotom-H has a good matchup against 4 or 5 of the enemy pokemon.

I can't think of a single other pokemon in the meta that can simultaneously beat Zard, Mence, Jirachi, and Tapu Koko. I definitely think it's closer to a pokemon that "has broad applications on a wide variety of teams" than one that "can only serve a specific role not needed by most teams".
 
I think the most important part is the defensive typing, beating psychic spam easily as well as common fire types without using a mega. Agree on the ranking metagross -> 4 imo
Regular Metagross is heavily outclassed by it's mega variant or even Heatran. In my eyes, groundium z Metagross is nothing but a below average one-time gimmick, which might surprise an unsuspecting (<--not likely as we have team preview) Aegislash with a not even guaranteed OHKO. It neither 'easily beats common fire types' (<-- ???) because it's outsped by probably 80% of all Heatrans and only after little prior (rock slide, dazzling gleam, aerialate hyper voice) damage, heat wave will likely KO it. Charizard Mega Y will be outspeeding it 90% of the time.
You should notice that shuca berry Heatran beats all of the aformentioned threats, without wasting a team slot and being able to forfill plenty of other niches too (such as killing Jirachi and Celesteela). Mega Metagross possesses way more firepower than its non-mega counterpart (tough claws), actually outspeeds dangerous fire types and can make just as good use of clear body.
Just for the information: Mega Metagross is only tier 2. I really don't think we should give such an outclassed pokémon a place in the viability rankings.
 
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Supporting the nomination of regular metagross. I've used the tectonic rage set quite a few times, in Seasonals and on Ladder, and I think its really solid. Regular gross has some really solid bulk and having the ability to OHKO its best checks (aegislash, Jirachi, heatran) thats great. You lose out on some power but the ability to break through your counters while maintaining solid bulk makes it a definitely viable, if worse, set for Metagross and deserving of a spot in the VR.

Edit: I'll throw in some replays from SPL
SPL week3: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankdoublesou-238448
SPL week3: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7doublesou-241841
 
Rotom-Heat 4 -> 3

I've been using a team with Rotom-H on it a bunch recently, and it has really overperformed. I think it's at least as good as Rotom-W, and maybe better. In comparison, Rotom-H is worse against Lando-T and waters (but you still have game against those things!), but is way better against steels, Zard, and Tapu Koko. Seriously, this thing's typing is phenomenal. A lot of times, I'll just be sitting in team preview and realize that Rotom-H has a good matchup against 4 or 5 of the enemy pokemon.

I can't think of a single other pokemon in the meta that can simultaneously beat Zard, Mence, Jirachi, and Tapu Koko. I definitely think it's closer to a pokemon that "has broad applications on a wide variety of teams" than one that "can only serve a specific role not needed by most teams".
If any of you vote for this I will have to join n1n1 on the new council train.
 
Kang --> 1.5

Kang doesn't care if the opposing mon is bulky or even resistant to it; it basically 2HKO most mons in the metagame. It's also a good Fake Out user in TR and out. If you don't have a strong Fighting-type move in your team, be prepared to face a mon that is "resistant to all types". Wish set is pretty flames too.
 
Zygarde -> 1.5: This mon is really good lol, Jirachi being one of the best mons in the meta just helps that, since it helps it set up really easily. It has really good bulk, DD, and Thousand Arrows, which is the best move in the game, and it becomes even better when paired with Groundium-Z. It also beats a lot of really good mons, such as Heatran, Aegislash, Celesteela, Zapdos, Mega Charizard-Y, and Hoopa. Plus extremespeed is a good move.
 

GenOne

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Kang --> 1.5

Kang doesn't care if the opposing mon is bulky or even resistant to it; it basically 2HKO most mons in the metagame. It's also a good Fake Out user in TR and out. If you don't have a strong Fighting-type move in your team, be prepared to face a mon that is "resistant to all types". Wish set is pretty flames too.
Kang's usage rate and win rate in SPL are also pretty high right now. All but one of the winning Week 5 teams had a Kang on it.
 

GenOne

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Fire Dino --> 1.5
Don't get me wrong, this is still a fantastic mon. It's just not nearly as splashable as Mence, Rachi, Lando or Heatran and it's not something that can just fit on any team build. It's held back by a middling speed tier and, while its special bulk is great, physical attacks drop it pretty quickly. Metagross-Mega even outspeeds/ohkos this inside of Psychic Terrain :O
 

Fire Dino --> 1.5
Don't get me wrong, this is still a fantastic mon. It's just not nearly as splashable as Mence, Rachi, Lando or Heatran and it's not something that can just fit on any team build. It's held back by a middling speed tier and, while its special bulk is great, physical attacks drop it pretty quickly. Metagross-Mega even outspeeds/ohkos this inside of Psychic Terrain :O
When I need a Fire-type, the first mon that comes to mind is certainly not Zard, but Heatran. In my opinion, Heatran just has more to offer against the current metagame. And to add to GenOne's quote, Zard usually needs the support of some Steel-type or speed control to work efficiently as well; this is not entirely true with the other mons ranked under Tier 1.
 
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Arcticblast

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short posts yay

Mega Kangaskhan to 1 - 9-3 in SPL without a single mirror you fucking idiots this is literally best Mega and any set that isn't four special attacks is viable on this thing. Tier 1 description is absolutely perfect for Kang, you can't go wrong

Tapu Koko to 1 - honestly I think Tapu Koko is one of the most threatening Pokemon around, really forcing teams to run their own terrain or something strong to take Electric attacks from it. It's also really damn fast, and basically keeping Mence and Skymin around on its own. Even without a damage item its Thunderbolts still hurt.

Kyurem-B to 1.5 - low key good as fuck; Life Orb 3 attacks fucking destroys Fini/Zap fat shit and is still bulky enough to rampage through offensive teams. Dragon typing is still good defensively even with Fairies around. Also happens to be both a great partner for Tapu Koko and a solid check to Tapu Koko. Has to beware of Jirachi but if you've got Electric Terrain Fusion Bolts flying around even Rachi has to be scared.

Tapu Fini to 1.5 - high use and winrate in SPL, easily best bulky Water around, and Misty Surge does a bunch of cool things (including the terrain reset). Calm Mind is a solid endgame wincon but it also gets a good deal of support (side Swagger and Taunt are cool, Haze is also neat). Defensively it's like what we all wanted when we tried and failed to use AV Azumarill as a pivot last gen.

Hydreigon to 2 - Its life is a bit harder this gen than last gen, but it's still the best offensive Tailwind setter around, and it still hits like a truck.

Tyranitar to 2 - pretty versatile in what it can do while also being pretty darn good at the same time. I'm tired and can't think of more specific reasons but trust me on this one you know what I wanna say

Zapdos to 2 - Misty Seed Zapdos is fucking dumb. Zapdos is still a cool bulky Electric and definitely the best overall Tailwind user, and beating bulky Waters + Mega Salamence is cool af

Pelipper / Politoed to 3: Rain is super good but if you're gonna rank either of these just rank them together honestly. Outside of Drizzle they're basically the same thing
 
Pheromosa to tier 4.
this guy has such nice coverage. being able to High Jump Kick heatrans, Ice Beam Salamences, U-turn on Deo-A
its very valuable
Agreed but low kick>HJK which also OHKOes Heatran and Mega Kangaskhan and doesnt have negatieve side effects.
 

Arcticblast

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Agreed but low kick>HJK which also OHKOes Heatran and Mega Kangaskhan and doesnt have negatieve side effects.
Pheromosa doesn't run Bug STAB besides the occasional U-turn (Poison Jab + Ice Beam is very good) so you're forced to run HJK or give up a lot of damage on important neutral targets like Jirachi
 
Volcanion -> 3

| 17 | Volcanion | 6 | 10.00% | 66.67% |

AssVest Volcanion has seen quite the rise in usage as of recently, and a decent amount of success with it. Being able to deal with fires with steam eruption, steels with heat wave, tapus with sludge bomb, and mence / zyg with hp ice is quite the combination.
 
Araquanid -> 3

Araquanid is basically the most splashable water type in the game right now. While all of azumarill, kingdra and fini are good, they all require team support. Araquanid is much more adept at supporting a team as a slow mode mode mon that isnt useless when it doesnt have the speed advantage, much like aegislash or amoongus last gen. A powerful, bulky support mon is a strong niche to occupy.

Z liquidation is obviously crazy threatening, basically allowing araquanid to nearly ohko anything that doesnt full on resist it. Wide guard is always useful. Given that that araquanid is a fire resist that doesnt fear grass or ground, there is basically no better fire switchin in the game right now.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-540585554

I think this replay does a good job of highlighting araquanid's capabilities. The threat of wide guard lets me play aggresively turn 1, Hydro vortex takes a huge chunk out of a bulky zapdos, even when araquanid is intimidated, and the fact that araquanid can basically ignore heatran on the field essentially seals the game.
 
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Fran

formerly Frania
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aegi - 1
this should be never ranked lower than heatran. definetly belongs in tier 1 with the other two top steel types, one of the few lele answers, definietly one of the metagame defining mons
kang - 1.5
kang balance is one of the better and most consistant playstyles, has a good winrate in spl the mon itself doesnt have many good checks, fits well on trick room, definetly deserves to be higher than metagross and gengar
zapdos - 2
best speedcontrol, got a big buff with misty/psychic seed, synergizes well with the top 3 megas, has positive mu against most of the top mons, good usage in spl
amoongus - 3
hasnt seen much use, spore isnt consistant since fini/koko block it and you dont really want to run it with lele as they stack weaknesses badly. very match up dependant, looses to many of the common threats defensive resist arent really worth it. also often outshined by bulu
lati - UR
no real niche, looses to everything.
hydrei - UR
no real niche, looses to everything. horrible winrate in spl (20%)
kek at post below
 
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Hydreigon is one of the few strong ghost/dark type that is not weak or rather affected by ground type moves. It also has access to status moves (taunt and tailwind) and coverage moves (earth power and fire blast). Not to mention, it's a nice Ghost-resist and TR-killer. Hydreigon should def stay in Tier 3-4 although I admit that it is in the same scenario as Sylveon: useful, but not really used.

hydrei - UR
no real niche, looses to everything. horrible winrate in spl (20%)
kek at post below
And although it's been played by "top players", SPL doesn't show the entire "metagame map". Hydreigon showed up only once every week it was played, and the numbers are too small to make accurate representation. On the other hand, we can def tell that Zygarde should be in 1.5-2 because it won 4/5 games on Week 6 of SPL and has been consistent throughout seasonals.
 
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Matame

New Rules
Yh hydrei is kinda shit now literally every new addition to the sm meta has made it less viable. As a tailwind setter zapdos offers so much more in terms of longlivety and arguably typing. Most of the time if u want a dragon ur better off with mega mence or literally any other fire resist, such as Tran. It loses to most team archetypes except like sun Which it doesn't do much to anyway and like trick room which again isn't an amazing matchup fake out or stuff like any fairy deals with it. Also Dark just isn't the stellar stab it used to be. Only thing it's rly got going for it is ground immune while lando just u turns on it anyway so lol
 
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GenOne

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Hydre -> Tier 4 might be a more reasonable nom

I don't think it's that great, for a lot of the reasons already captured in the above thread. But UR??? Hydre is definitely usable, if lackluster.
 

Idyll

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hydrei's at a perfect spot rn honestly

it still has its good matchups against specific things, it's one of the few true effective offensive mons with tailwind, and the combination of speed + resistances still serve as really handy. It's a mon that's capable of aiding the mu against 3/5 in t1 while in t2, it takes whatever tran and hoopa can do, can smash aegi, and can chunk a good amount on scouted-as-non-scarf lele. Further down the list, there's still specific favorable-to-fine mus against a varied pool of threats (MGar, Zygarde, Zong, Zap) which give it a high probability to always be a useful in-game piece that can keep certain foes in line. Also, the fact that it has a lot of utility for an offensive mon is pretty sick as the resistances and threat of tailwind can make foes respect it enough in-game to adjust a substantial amount. In addition, the threat of either getting hit w/ a strong attack or having twind set on your face is a specific thing that it has that can often be a game changer, only seen in the mega-costing Mega Salamence and (more uncommonly) Mega Charizard Y. (a variant of this conundrum, w/ tr, can be seen on hoopa-u)

it has as much unfavorable mus, however, starting with Mega Mence and the Tapu meta. Getting owned by really common stuff (and wholly destroyed by Fini, thanks to Misty Terrain) is a huge pita to deal with. For an offensive pokemon, its speed is dragging it down as it doesn't have the luxury of high bulk that allows it to comfortably tank through faster offensive foes, and its attacks, when it's not dracoing, don't really feel that they do enough in this bulky-ish metagame; being flawed as an attacker is a bit of a drag to its effectiveness, the only reason it's scraping by is matchups and tailwind, really.

putting hydrei in either 4 or UR is absurd, it does too much to be relegated down there. If it's ever moving a spot, it's up to 2, though i personally don't have any opinion on that one atm.
 
so idk if I have to go through some sort of induction process to post suggestions, but I feel Zygarde-10% UR -> at least Tier 4. Zygarde-10%'s advantage over regular Zygarde is its great base-115 speed, allowing it to get out Thousand Arrows or Thousand Waves very quickly, especially if you can get it to +1 with Dragon Dance. It also has several other useful options such as Extreme-Speed, Rock Slide (for Thousand Waves), Glare and Haze to compliment those moves. Core Enforcer suffers from the added speed, though.
 
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