Resource SM Doubles OU Viability Rankings

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tran --> tier 2

fires are ugh
jirachi gone so like why even use this thing: you're hitting like 2 things in the meta w/ your fire spread. Sub is not what it used to be. Using Tran as a psyspam check is a good joke.

kyube -> 2

reaction to kang ban --> what the fuck are we going to use to beat fini zap --> yo this kyube stuff is strong. In general a very good breaker and ice STAB with appropriate complimenting coverage is very nice.

also
[11:15 AM] Checkmater: why are we quibbling over tier 4
[11:16 AM] Checkmater: like who gives a fuck literally remove tier 4 and little of value of doubles vr as a resource would be lost
[11:16 AM] Checkmater: just makes more clutter and work for vrc
[11:16 AM] Checkmater: and often becomes wildly inaccurate because no one cares about maintaining a tier 4 that is accurate

keep gastro, diancie, plepper, pory-z in tier 3, get rid of the rest. It just creates more clutter (less is more) and detracts from doubles viability rankings as a resource for players to understand the meta. Yeah i too love to whip out buzzwole and someone's going to be crying tears over victini or some shit but at the end of the day tier 4 is useless for this resource. Scant usage / success isn't a reason to rank something imo.
 
Rotom-H 4 -> UR
Dont really have something to do in this meta. First time you see it you'll say "Oml electric+fire with levitate, how neat!" than you use it and it only sit there and do nothing. It only Fire-type move access is Overheat, mean it requires Firium-Z which not a big deal for a defensive pivot. Becoming dead weight against Rain archetypes and cant be a Water-types check despite have an electric typing. Levitate become useless with Zygarde and Kyurem-B all around. This pokemon can be a Lando-T "check" only if it capable to tank Rock Slide and not getting flinched. Also, who really use Zard-Y nowadays?.

Out of Topic
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i disagree with rotom-h going to UR . Rotom-H is one of the very few pokemon to wall both tapu koko's stabs, which basically has no checks (especially with hp ice) in tier 1 and 1.5 , giving it a good addition when youre short on tapu koko checks, especially that it abuses it's electric terrain. even when not facing tapu koko, Fire/Electric checks fairy types (and all tapus, actually), and allows it to hit Steel hard, which is very good in the meta. its still a good, bulky pokemon which has decent damage, has access to fire type move ( + stab ) which is somewhat rare in the meta since heatran / charizard are the few most relevant fire types. it's also a good pivot with volt switch, and can run scarf to be fast carrying hp ice (which is good coverage) or even trick to cripple trick room quite hard. it's also noteworthy that its a levitator, which is appreciated by most teams it's in, epecially since its covers its one big weakness.

overall, being bulky and decently strong, with amazing typing both offensively and defensively, with a great ability to match, added to the versatility in its sets, and the many options they give it still give rotom-h a use in sumo. opposing for it to go UR

edit: If checkmater's suggestion to remove tier 4 happens, i'd also keep diancie, excadrill, ludicolo, scrafty, suicune, sylveon, terrakion, as they still are relevant if you ask me.
 
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yeah I said most of what I wanted to say but as an add-on we've got 32 mons in tiers 1-3 and 29 mons in tier 4. It's clutter that we seriously don't need and detracts from the resource as a whole. People come to this thread to hold discussion of viability and to get a snapshot of the meta, and tier 4 does nothing to contribute to either of these goals.

For discussion of "up and coming threats" or "things being slept on" ("I used this and I really like it and more people should like it/use it", etc), that kind of conversation should really move either to the meta discussion thread or to creative sets. Too often someone likes a sleeper threat and posts here instead of in the appropriate thread.
 
Checkmater said:
yeah I said most of what I wanted to say but as an add-on we've got 32 mons in tiers 1-3 and 29 mons in tier 4. It's clutter that we seriously don't need and detracts from the resource as a whole. People come to this thread to hold discussion of viability and to get a snapshot of the meta, and tier 4 does nothing to contribute to either of these goals.

For discussion of "up and coming threats" or "things being slept on" ("I used this and I really like it and more people should like it/use it", etc), that kind of conversation should really move either to the meta discussion thread or to creative sets. Too often someone likes a sleeper threat and posts here instead of in the appropriate thread.
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I agree that Tier 4 is a bit cluttered right now and could be cleaned up, but tbh our VR is already shorter than any other tiers'. Here are a few examples for reference:
Not to say we have to do things the same way as other tiers, but ours is definitely not extraneous when you look at the depth most VRs go down to.

The Tier 4 mons are still good if you have a good reason to use them and, in most cases, they have seen at least some success in high level play. Besides, it's not like our metagame has an abundance of variety right now: Mega Gengar balance, Mega Salamence balance, Snorlax SemiRoom, maybe a bit of Metagross, Zard and hyper offense -- that's basically the current meta in a nutshell. Being able to delve a bit lower into the VR is one of the few things that keeps the meta interesting (at least to me), so just because some people don't find it useful doesn't mean it isn't useful.

That said, there are a few debatable mons lurking in Tier 4 rn, so I will take this opportunity to nom some:
  • Metagross 4 -> UR
    Tectonic Rage Meta was cool back in the early SPL days where Rachi was legal, but I haven't seen this mon used since.

  • Nihelego 4 -> UR
    Walled by Steels, poor defensive typing, and drops to literally any physical hit. I usually forget this mon exists until I hop on the ladder. It was only used once in DPL and it lost.
Honestly, those are the only two I can think of that I'd never, ever consider using on a team - the rest of Tier 4 deserves a rank and a few of them were even nommed up recently-ish.
 
VR votes are in. Sorry for the delay. Also we will be discussing the matter of Tier 4 and post about it by next update

Nihilego 4 -> UR
Finally: it’s supposed to beat tapus, but you use something else to beat tapus. You can pull of like 1 surprise kill with your focus sash, but then you die and ultimately end up going 1 for 1 at best. UR

kamikaze: Yes

MajorBowman: Yes, just doesn’t do enough damage or check enough threats to be usable

Memoric: haven’t seen this at all lul, ur

Qsns: too weak with sash and its awkward 3-move coverage doesn’t really help with that. UR

SamVGC: UR, it doesn’t really perform its role effectively enough in this meta and trades poorly with too many pokemon

shaian: yes
Metagross 4 -> UR
Finally: no. i still kinda like the groundium z set and metagross has solid stats + typing. It’s like an offensive jirachi that can’t be intimidated.

kamikaze: Abstain

MajorBowman: No, it still has a place in a metagame flooded with Salamence and a bunch of fairies. It’s one of the best checks to Lele as well, which is definitely worth something

Memoric: Yes, it’s not really that deserving of r4. There are better steels around with much more utility / offensive prowess, mgross is just outclassed. Zground is “neat” but not that great for it to be 4-material

Qsns: I used groundium Z metagross on a team recently and it was still about as good as it was during the Jirachi period of the meta b/c lele and mence are more prevalent and having the strong, unintimated mash was quite nice for breaking. Keep in 4

SamVGC: i haven’t seen anyone use it since early spl, its not bad but i don’t think its deserving of rank 4

shaian: no its fallen out of vogue but it has a usable niche
Terrakion 4 -> 3
Finally: yeah, this mon has a good niche in the metagame beating snorlax, porygon-z, charizard, kyurem-b, heatran, etc. the tapus give it problems, but people are learning how to support terrakion so the tapu weakness isnt as prevalent. An example is bringing a heatran. It shrugs off tapu lele and earth powers tapu koko

kamikaze: Yes. fighting types are valuable

MajorBowman: Abstain. My first thought is no, but I haven’t used it at all and I know some other people have used it to decent success. Kang being gone means one less target for it but there are some uses for it I suppose

Memoric: this boy’s a threat lol. It can beat a handful of guys and being a fighting type is becoming more and more useful in this metagame now being infested by lax

Qsns: best fighting-type in a lax-dominated meta with a pretty good secondary stab, and sash gives it more longevity than you’d expect from a frail mon.

SamVGC: i think its probably the only respectable fighting type currently, which is really valuable. 3

shaian: yeah free fighting types
Heatran 1 -> 1.5
Finally: tapu fini and snorlax hurt heatran. And with jirachi and kang gone (jirachi was a target it wanted to hit and kang was subtitute setup support) heatran has definitely taken a hit. Yes to 1.5

kamikaze: Yes. Rachi is gone, zard is not as present, and big meta threats (fini, snorlax, and zygarde) all give it a hard time

MajorBowman: Yes, Heatran never should have been in 1. It’s a good Pokemon but it’s soooo overrated. It either does not enough damage in a given time period (sub set) or you have to play it super delicately in order to preserve its damage output (eruption set). I think 1.5 is the absolute highest I’d ever place it, maybe even 2.

Memoric: yes, certain threats such as lax, zygarde, tar, RAIN, and the like have made heatran more often a liability than an asset in games. It’s not that good at generating damage anymore with heat wave and the sub set has faced a very notable decline.

Qsns: Much, much weaker than it was in the start of the meta. Last gen, Heatran could wear down its most common check, lando-t, with repeated Heat Waves, but thats much harder against Fini, and basically useless vs Zygarde and Lax, which are all threats on the rise. Definitely does not do something meaningful every match, which goes against the spirit of the tier 1 description.

SamVGC: no, heatran still matches up incredibly well with a lot of the meta, eruptran is as good as its ever been and shuca hp ice needs to see more use

shaian: gonna agree with schweitzdaddy on this one
Tapu Fini 1.5 -> 1
Finally: sigh i didnt want this pokemon to be good. Bear told me tapu bulu was supposed to be the good one at the start of sm. I mean look at his sombrero. And now we got fukn cloyster. Yes to 1

kamikaze: Yes. Others pretty much covered it

MajorBowman: This is hard because when I think of Tapu Fini I don’t think of this dominating metagame force that sweeps teams singlehandedly and that makes me think 1 isn’t the right place for it. However, the description for tier 1 includes “They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.” Fini absolutely offers great team support with Misty Terrain and the potential for Swagger/Heal Pulse stuff, and it definitely can fit on a whole lot of teams. On those grounds I’ll vote yes to 1, even though it kinda pains me to do so

Memoric: yes rofl, fini brings so much utility to the table and can keep a good number of stuff at bay. The ability to be a very effective pivot with its really high bulk and solid typing is very nice, and the terrain control that comes along with it is quite nifty as well as it also stops sleepers such as Amoonguss and Bronzong. More importantly, being able to function as a threat with CM is very very huge, as by itself it can function as a breaker and even wincon in games. Fini is so very damn flexible and will never not contribute in games.

Qsns: remember when people said lele was the best tapu??? Easy 1, best support pokemon in the metagame if running swagpulse (both actively and passively w/ its ability) and dunks nearly every high tier threat with its CM set, giving it flexibility to fit on basically any team not based around another terrain. Biggest contributor to the omnipresent balance trend that’s swept up the meta.

SamVGC: absolutely, incredibly easy and fun to build with, checks a large portion of top threats and pairs incredibly well with them

shaian: yeah
Mega Gyarados UR -> 4
Finally: good against hoopa, has intimidate, and floats around but it uses your mega slot. The opportunity cost of not running salamence, gengar, metagross, or charizard is higher than the payout of mega gyarados. Salamence hits hoopa pretty hard with double-edge and has intimidate and floats around. Stay in ur

kamikaze: Abstain. In theory it seems viable but I could never make it work

MajorBowman: Yeah I think this is fine, Mega Gyarados has a neat typing and the ability to stay non mega and still be a threat with Intimidate and a ground immunity is cool

Memoric: i personally think this is jackshit and is a meme, but people are using it and are getting away with it. abstain

Qsns: i think this thing’s garbage but i’m probably just basing it off of my impressions on it last gen b/c i haven’t seen it enough in sm, so i’ll abstain to be safe.

SamVGC: i think its at least deserving of 4 yes, dark typing hits a lot and pairing it with something like amoonguss helps deal with a lot of its counters

shaian: yeah kinda nifty but not that great. Btw it doesnt have strong jaws for some reason which is lame af

Changes:
Nihilego moves from Tier 4 to UR
Terrakion moves from Tier 4 to 3
Heatran moves from Tier 1 to 1.5
Tapu Fini moves from Tier 1.5 to 1
Mega Gyarados moves from UR to Tier 4
Laga moves from VR Council to UR
 
Silverwhiteblue said:
i disagree with rotom-h going to UR . Rotom-H is one of the very few pokemon to wall both tapu koko's stabs, which basically has no checks (especially with hp ice) in tier 1 and 1.5 , giving it a good addition when youre short on tapu koko checks, especially that it abuses it's electric terrain.
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it's levitating so it's not affected by electric terrain.
 
zapdos.gif

Zapdos 1.5 -> 1

Zapdos is the most reliable speed control user in the meta due to its ridiculous bulk when combined with Misty Seed and its access to reliable recovery. With just two weaknesses, the only things that really threaten it are Ttar, set up sweepers such as Lax, or repeated strong attacks. Even then, Zapdos can often still get up Tailwind and stomach multiple hits. Also since Tran and Zard kinda suck, Zapdos has become the premier check to Celesteela, who otherwise gives many builds trouble (such as Lax balance and Psychic Spam). Fini + Zapdos is pretty much the most dominant archetype rn, so it only seems appropriate it gets bumped up to tier 1.
 
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Zap is good but 1 seems a bit too much lol it's not that strong which leaves it as set up bait for stuff like lax pz ferro yada Tailwind is cool but its not amazing atm seed hoopa shits on it along with most tr setters. It's defensive typing is cool vs mence and zygarde/fini/zap builds but it can fall flat vs other archetypes ie trick room psychic spam rain depending on the build. It should in theory be a pretty cool answer to more offensive teams but usually it can't stomach the hits to do so and a lot of offense/hyper offense builds have countermeasures like taunt gar or lele which prevent it from rly doing much. Its a good mon but far too exploitable for like a tier 1 staple
 
Nido-Rus said:
A few quick thoughts-
Rotom-Wash -> Tier 4
I've seen washtom possibly 3-4 times since Gen7 started, and it hasn't done much at all. Hates facing any of the tapus, skymin is back, rachi still annoying for it to deal with. It can't status stuff nearly as well as it could before, either. Would be nice to actually see it in games, though.

Araquanid -> UR
Why is this ranked? This may be usable in theory, but I haven't ever seen it being worth the slot it's used on. Loses to mence, skymin, all the tapus, and having one usable intimidate-weak stab makes it a huge momentum drag.

Thundurus-I -> Tier 3
Bulky thund-I is still really really good at support. Kind of forces you to use tapu bulu, but priority t-wave and taunt is amazing utility with mega mence and jirachi everywhere. Insurance against skymin is also always nice. Tbolt+HP ice still chunks a lot of the meta, and having an electric that can switch into celesteela is very useful. In general, it's still the same mon as it was before, but it now needs a bit of support for terrains.
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I disagree with your statement of araquanid. I've had great success with it on the ladder (low 1700s with a ranked as 15th). I feel like if you can set up TR successfully, it can do massive work and get great KOs if it has life orb. Outside of TR it isn't as effective, but in TR its a monster.
 
genesect 3 ---> 2

This Pokémon is a great check for stuff like scarf lando, mence, the tapu's, hoopa, ttar, shaymin, ferrothorn, and zygarde. It also has access to uturn making it a great offensive pivot. And finally, with decease usage of zard y and tran, there's not a lot of things that successfully check this mon.
 
mew UR ---> 4

I honestly don't know why this mon isn't ranked yet, it offers incredible team support with moves like fake out, tailwind, transform, roar, taunt, etc.. It also makes for a very solid lax check. Also, Mew can also be used as an offensive mon to check things like lando, mence, zygarde, and tran with moves like ice beam and ep (or earthquake if real).
 
Alright I've been thinking about a lot of different mons recently and I've got a few noms to go through. I also thought I'd try to take this thread in a more discussion-based direction, as otherwise it ends up being lots of one-off posts followed by a council saying their own decisions instead of being able to get a feel for a more widespread community opinion. Sorry in advance for the long-ish post.

Noms of my own:
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-> 1
Mega Gengar offers so much to every team it's on, and is clearly one of the two best Megas alongside Mega Salamence. To show the clear distance between those top two and any others, I think it's fitting that they rest a full tier above any others. With many bulky setup mons and a few niche Pokemon used to check many threats, having trapping is so crucial and Mega Gengar is strong, fast, and has just the right moves. 104 HP / 4 Def / 148 SpA / 252 Spe has been treating me super well, OHKOing 0/0 Mega Mence with HP Ice while surviving hits from both Zygarde and Tapu Koko.

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-> 1.5
With the decrease in fires and people realizing redirection is still good even if Jirachi isn't around, Amoonguss is great. Clear Smog handles the many setup mons, it laughs at Tapu Fini and prevents it from using Heal Pulse too, and its rough Mega Mence matchup isn't enough to say that it's worse than the Pokemon currently sitting in 1.5. Losing the ability to click Spore when Electric and Misty Terrain are set isn't as damaging as people think either.

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-> UR
Losing matchups against all of Tier 1 (except Mega Gengar if that goes through) and too many shared weaknesses with Ttar, which pulls far more weight in most matches. Excadrill has exactly two wins in DPL, and in one of them it didn't even get to attack. I find Excadrill difficult to build with and not much easier to use, and though it's usable, that doesn't mean it should be ranked.

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-> UR
A whopping 0 uses in DPL and a general inferiority to other Pokemon that fulfill its roles makes it difficult to justify except as a stepping stone to Mega Gyarados, which can better take advantage of Intimidate by being threatening as a setup sweeper. It never really does enough damage and is just generally awkward to use. Pick another Water-type or Intimidate user and your team will improve almost every time.

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-> UR
Okay yes it's good on Chase's team but it's never been used on any other team. This is a clear instance, to me, of a Pokemon that is usable and I will not dismiss but that doesn't belong on the Viability Rankings as we currently have them situated. If we wanted to rank every Pokemon that had any sort of non-outclassed niche, Linoone would not be lowest on the list and I'd be more comfortable keeping it.

Noms I agree with:
646-b.png
-> 2
Powerful, bulky (Hashtag's AV set won him two games in DPL), versatile, takes on FiniZap. Check said most of that already, but I wanted to offer my own support. It may not fit perfectly with the description of Tier 2, but I think it fits in better with the Pokemon there and is more comparable in viability to them than to the Pokemon found in Tier 3.

598.png
-> 2
qsns nailed it, and this thing also has a 67% winrate in DPL to back up his claims. The ability to wear down threats and deal respectable damage while slurping up HP from Leech Seed and Leftovers is fantastic, and even Curse sets with Misty Seed have shown some merit.

479h.png
-> UR
I think it's time. Rotom-H has seen 0 use the entirety of DPL and though it checks a few Pokemon it loses to so many and fails to effectively pressure many of the Pokemon it apparently checks. Firium Z should have helped it avoid being a momentum drain by removing the SpA drop of its primary attack but it's underwhelming and unhelpful to most potential teams.

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-> 4
I don't remember who said it, but I saw someone recently say "Mew is a win more mon". It doesn't do a ton on its own, aside from extremely specific moves used to check one or two Pokemon at a time, but if you can get into an advantageous position Mew is great for solidifying that. Tailwind, lots of coverage, decent bulk, Fake Out, Transform, everyone knows what this thing does but they also can't be sure because it has so many options to plug holes.

Noms I don't agree with:
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-> 2
I'll willingly admit that I'm not the quickest to pick up on metagame trends or where the metagame should be, but I feel that Heatran does far too much for teams to be less than 1.5. It definitely shouldn't move up, but with so much versatility between HP Ice, Eruption, Flash Cannon, Taunt, Sub (though it's not great anymore), and more niche things like Roar, Bloom Doom, and Stealth Rock, Heatran is a great add-on to teams as an emergency button.

What I'd like to see more discussion on:
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-> 1.5
I think Snorlax fits the description of Tier 2 far better but I have noticed a high amount of Toxic, Knock Off, Fightinium Z, etc specifically to have answers to it. With more people preparing for it, Snorlax is under control (in my opinion), but does this sheer amount of influence on the metagame mean it should be ranked higher? I feel like at times Snorlax is just answered and can't do much but then other times it just wins. Not really sure, this is a difficult one and I'm curious to see not only what the VR Council has to say but also what other people think.

Removal of Tier 4
I think this entirely depends on what we want the Viability Rankings to stand for. Personally I'm still a fan of keeping Tier 4, it allows Pokemon that I feel are relevant but not necessarily widely usable to be represented and with the C&C section's policy of writing analyses for all ranked Pokemon, I think the current cutoff makes more sense than a theoretical one after Tier 3. However, as check suggested, if we want the Viability Rankings to more aptly sum up what you're likely to face in high-level tournament or ladder matches, I can see the merits of its removal. If people aren't on board for its removal, I think rewriting the description could help fix some of the issues people have expressed with its inclusion. I don't have any ideas off the top of my head for how this new description could read, but I'd be happy to whip something up if anyone is interested but not sure what I'm talking about.
 
great post, ttree! I'd like to defend Excadrill, though. It's kind of like Kingdra and Ludicolo in that it only specializes in one thing, but I think it does it well. In the sand, it serves as an amazing check / speed control to dangerous speedy threats like Scarf Genesect, Deoxys-A, Gengar, Metagross, Tapu Koko, Kyurem-B, +1 Volcarona, just to name a few. Excadrill hits surprisingly hard, with LO Iron Head scoring a 2HKO on Lando-T with SR support. It also cockblocks Electric-types, too, thanks to its typing.

I also don't agree with unranking regular Gyarados, but that's harder to defend ;x DD Supersonic Skystrike Gyarados > Mega Gyarados IMHO. Also with regular Gyarados, you can use Mega Gengar :d
 
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1.5 --> 1


Hoopa has a plethora of possible sets ranging from life orb to choice scarf. Hoopa, while lacking physical bulk, fits on practically every team. It's one of the best tr checks while being one of the most viable tr setters too. This mon can pick up surprise ohko's with moves like gunk shot, drain punch, and ice punch. A set I also want to talk to about Z ally switch, this set hasn't seen a lot of competitive use (or any, really) but I think it has some serious potential. It was first brought to my attention by darksylvion who used it in his ssnl match with some success.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesubers-561597604

479w.png


3 --> 4

This Pokemon is (sadly) not nearly as good as it was in oras. Alas, with a decreased usage of fire types, increase usage of psychic spam, I don't really see a spot for this pokemon in tier 3. With the new terrain negating all of its useful moves its pretty much just dead weight. As someone mentioned before, it cant even take advantage of electric terrain.


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4 --> 3

My justifications for nominating this mon is its adorable. Aside from that, with the new diamond storm buff and the ability to set tr in almost every situation, I think this mon well deserves its spot in tier 3.
 
Thundurus 4 -> UR
Our old friends. Totally broken last gen esp before Swagger ban. Have 3 DPL appearance this year (but always lose).Being the most feared speed control -at least before this gen- but looks like gamefreak want to nerf this mon in a big scale.
  • Pranknerf Dark-types now immune to prankster.
  • Misty Surge Tapu Fini everywhere + Misty Terrain block status = ;_;
  • Psychic Surge Psychic Terrain blocks priority means prankster are blocked, too.
  • T-Wave Nerf Twave accuracy is now 90%, means an aid haxer can outright dodged it.
  • ParaNerf Paralysis now halves speed instead of reducing by 75%. That mean running tailwind can negates speed reduction.
Has a nice typing but frail like shit. Defiant maybe useful in theory, but ive never seen a defiant Thund live more than 2 turns(bcuz wild charge). Still, with a right teammate it can be decent.
 
Jahimm said:
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1.5 --> 1
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[19:16] miltankmilk: >hoopa to tier 1
[19:16] miltankmilk: hold my beer

I think its a stretch to say there are a plethora of viable sets as Choice Scarf is just not good in a meta where Lando-t is running jolly and not adamant, where Tapu Fini is ever present which makes locking into either of its stabs a pain in the ass, a meta where Tyranitar is getting more and more common and as more physical attackers are rising in usage. IMO hoopa-u has one dominant set and a couple of others that are passable on the right team, with its most prevalent and defining set being a bulkier trick room setter. When you vary from this, no matter your coverage options, you lose the bulk to be able to take more than one hit reliably and I think that being able to reliably take more than one hit is essential for a Tier 1 pokemon. The pokemon in tier 1 are tier 1 because they provide excellent offensive and defensive utility to almost any team, hoopa's defensive utility is limited to being a check to a number of special attackers as it has 0 resistances or reliable recovery. You're argument for this being a tier 1 pokemon also hinges on its worst sets being the examples.
Tier 1.5
Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1

This is where Hoopa fits for a reason. It is generally strong and can fit on a variety of teams, but its lack of defensive utility, its middling speed tier (especially for these fast sets you rave about), and general inability to break through the strong, numerous fairies or dark types in this tier when using its best set makes this pokemon decidedly tier 1.5 and that is nothing to be ashamed of. A pokemon can be exceptional at fulfilling one role on a variety of teams, but this does not make it something that can simply be put on 90% of teams with no drawbacks as is the case with fini and lando-t (mence we'll get to in a minute).

094-m.png
Would like to also voice my support of mega gengar to tier 1, I think its the best mega in the tier right now and with options like taunt, hp ice, disable, wisp, and perhaps others Mega Gengar has a variety of tools that let it handle this metagame quite well.

I have a controversial nomination of my own
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Mega Salamence to Tier 1.5
I think this pokemon has been overrated due to its prowess in early ORAS for a little bit now and I don't think its quite tier 1 material. For one, Mega Mence's most dangerous set, DD or bulky DD, has become much riskier to use with the departure of Jirachi from the tier. With the absence of Jirachi there are a variety of pokemon that have an easier time checking Salamence without having to waste turns KOing Jirachi, these checks range from Aegislash to Tyranitar to Celesteela to Heatran with HP ice to Genesect to Zapdos, you get the point. Mega Gengar and Tapu Koko are both incredibly common and frequently pack HP ice to snipe Mega Salamence before it can do damage. While I still think Salamence is a fantastic Pokemon, it hasn't made the greatest transition to a bulkier metagame with more Fairies and a more common Tyranitar that can really punish its frailer sets such as mixed tailwind and make setting up Dragon Dances increasingly difficult with the absence of its premier partner in Jirachi
 
I am very new to doubles, but shouldn't mega lucario at least be ranked? unless I am missing something, I didnt see it at all in the rankings and it seems like a great pokemon
 
Mega Lucario is pretty terrible. With the omnipresence of Intimidate (especially Scarf Landorus-T) its highest damage sets don't really do the damage you need, and its special sets are just a little too weak. It doesn't have the raw stats to get away with being an exclusively single target sort of Pokemon, and the necessity of running Protect on such a frail Pokemon means you have to give up either priority or setup, both of which are very important to singles Mega Lucario.
 
Arcticblast said:
Mega Lucario is pretty terrible. With the omnipresence of Intimidate (especially Scarf Landorus-T) its highest damage sets don't really do the damage you need, and its special sets are just a little too weak. It doesn't have the raw stats to get away with being an exclusively single target sort of Pokemon, and the necessity of running Protect on such a frail Pokemon means you have to give up either priority or setup, both of which are very important to singles Mega Lucario.
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oh ok i get it
 
With six interesting new megas released in the past week, we got two actually viable Megas in Swampert and Abomasnow. While the other four new Megas warrant further testing before being nomed imo, I think it's pretty obvious that Swampert and Abomasnow will have a place in this metagame:

swampert-mega.png

Mega Swampert --> UR to Tier 4
Kingdra is still king when comes to rain sweepers imo, since Mega Swampert takes up your mega slot and can't run an item or z-move. However, having access to Water, Ground, and Ice/Fighting coverage all in one strong, speedy mon makes it less susceptible to being walled by opposing switch-ins. The most recent iteration of the Teambuilder Competition also demonstrated there are no shortage of ways to build viable teams around this mon, and Mega Swampert has notably great synergy with Pelipper as a rain setter. it As a physical attacker, Swampert hates Intimidate, although it can run Ice Punch to outpace and OHKO both relevant Intimidate users.

abomasnow-mega.png

Mega Abomasnow --> UR to Tier 4
This meta's first truly viable full-Trick Room Mega has decent matchups against a lot of the meta's current threats, including Lando-T, Mence, Zygarde, and the island guardians (except Lele when outside of TR). It's also a TR attacker that can't be Spored by Amoonguss, and it works as a decent rain check in a pinch. Obviously it hates Fire-types but, at least in the short-term Fire-types aren't as popular/useful as they used to be, so Abomasnow comes out a bit ahead this gen. Idk if this will move beyond Tier 4, but it's definately good enough to be ranked. I have already built a serious team around this mon that has proven to be formidable.
 
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