Metagame SM Monotype Metagame Discussion

[Kantan]

Okay, it's been slightly touched on in this thread, but Kartana is absolutely absurd. The only way for it to die is if it gets outsped and nuked with a special attack.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/azure-gen7pokebankubers-27286
(skip to turn 10)
My Kartana had a band and all I needed to start my sweep was to slightly weaken a pokemon (in this scenario landorus) into range of being KOd. It can instantly demolish ground, and though I have yet to try it on the other types that it's stab beats, I assume that it would be the same against them.

 

[Eien]

Outside of the absurd Power Construct, Zygarde has still received two enormous buffs in both Thousand Arrows and its 10%-forme. In anticipation of the Power Construct ban, I've been testing out some non-Power Construct sets. So, here are two powerful sets I've been using on Ground teams:

Zygarde-10% @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Superpower / Zen Headbutt / Stone Edge

This set is honestly a monster. Choice Band-boosted Thousand Arrows shreds almost anything that doesn't resist it. Because Thousand Arrows smacks down and can hit Flying-types, it's an incredibly safe move to just spam as you wish. Worst case scenario, Zygarde's forced out, but a teammate can still take advantage of the smack down effect. Extreme Speed is always nice, even with Zygarde-10%'s high Speed, so that it can revenge kill easily. Outrage and the fourth slot are really just filler moves. Outrage is a stronger STAB move than Thousand Arrows, but it does have big downsides. I basically never use the last moveslot and I really have no idea what I want there. Just hit Thousand Arrows for safe damage, Extreme Speed to revenge kill, and Outrage to break walls. The power is unreal.

Zygarde-10% @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed

Now this is something I've been really loving recently. Dragon Dance makes Zygarde ridiculously fast, capable of even outspeeding Swift Swim Kingdra in the rain, and boosts its power. Thousand Arrows just sweeps some types at +1 / +1. For example, Flying teams that often rely solely on Skarmory for their physical bulk are seriously vulnerable, as are Electric teams without the "wonderful" and never used Hidden Power Ice Alolan Raichu. I use Z Outrage for its colossal 190 Base Power. With this, Zygarde will just outright shred any wall that's trying to stop its sweep. Even after using Z Outrage, Outrage itself is a fine move to use still, so I'm not sacrificing the moveslot just for a one-time nuke. Extreme Speed is again just great for having reliable priority for revenge killing purposes. It also helps Zygarde outprioritize foes that are trying to take it out. As alternative items, Lum Berry can help Zygarde set up on status-using walls and Life Orb can be used to power up Thousand Arrows and Extreme Speed.

With the ridiculous utility of Thousand Arrows and its great Attack and Speed stats, I think Zygarde will still be omnipresent on Ground teams even without Power Construct. So, what sets are all of you looking forward to using? Are there any good Zygarde-50% sets that could compete with Zygarde-10%?

 

[Clearly]

Currently in Sun/Moon the Baton Pass clause doesn't apply to Z-Moves. As a result of this I've been trying out a team that utilizes Z-Celebrate + Baton Pass on Monotype Dark.

BP Dark

Umbreon @ Normalium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Baton Pass
- Taunt
- Moonlight

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 88 SpD / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Trip
- Earthquake
- Bulk Up
- Substitute

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psychic
- Hyperspace Fury
- Gunk Shot
- Focus Blast

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

The main goal of the team is to pretty much set up Stealth Rock with Bisharp if you think one of your offensive Pokemon can sweep and then accomplish a pass into said member of team. Umbreon's spread gives it enough physical bulk to take a Choice Specs Secret Sword from Keldeo without rocks. Taunt keeps it from being fazed out by an opposing Pokemon carrying Roar / Whirlwind and also finds usage in stopping Pokemon from using Haze against it. The offensive recipients of the pass are Krookodile, Greninja and Hoopa-U. In Gen 7 Dark has received a new move called Power Trip which works similarly to Stored Power in the way that both gain more Base Power as the user's stats increase. The Krookodile spread allows it to outspeed Gyarados and gives it some bulk in Special Defense, and it's usually only passed to when playing against a slower more bulky team. Greninja's coverage can be tailored to any type you want to beat, this one in particular is meant to deal with Steel+Ground teams with little to no trouble since unless they're running Jolly on their Excadrill nothing outspeeds you. Hoopa-U is an eligible receiver but is primarily used for revenge killing weakened Pokemon. Finally, Sableye can be passed to as it appreciates the stat gains and becomes much harder to deal with for opposing teams.

Replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankubers-483330057 -Semi-Finals of a room tour
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankubers-483337112 -Finals of the same room tour

TL;DR Baton Pass + Z-Moves is a pretty broken combination. Other examples of shenanigans that can be pulled at this time include Z-Detect Passing (+1 Evasion), Z-Purify (+1 All Stats) Passing and other teams running Z-Celebrate + BP.

 

[Eien]

For transparency and community involvement, the council would like to encourage discussion on both Evasion Clause and Baton Pass Clause.

Monotype currently uses OU's Evasion and Baton Pass clauses. As shown by Clearly's post above, the current clauses do not exclude Z Moves that would break them. Z Detect legally intentionally boosts evasion and Z Celebrate + Baton Pass legally passes +1 to all stats. A new player would no doubt be confused why it's okay to use Z Celebrate + Baton Pass but not Dragon Dance + Baton Pass. So, we'd like to fix these clauses.

Evasion Clause:
The current clause only bans Double Team and Minimize, as they are the only moves that can intentionally and reliably boost the user's evasion. For a currently relevant example, Yanmega can use Z Detect to gain evasion while also getting a turn of Speed Boost with zero opportunity cost, as it always uses Protect in standard sets. Yanmega can even combine this with Substitute and generally be a complete nuisance. Unlike Double Team and Minimize, this can only be used once. However, even one evasion boost reduces moves with 100% accuracy to 75% accuracy. Considering some Pokemon have access to both Detect and Baton Pass, such as Zapdos and Eevee's evolutions, it's possible to Baton Pass evasion to an appropriate abuser. To give examples, consider using Z Detect Umbreon and Baton Passing +1 Evasion to Mega Sableye, which was already a Pokemon deemed uncompetitive in the past. This strategy turns the game into one of luck instead of skill, which is what we define as uncompetitive.

Baton Pass Clause:
The current clause only bans the use of Baton Pass alongside standard methods to boost Speed and another stat. Z Moves are not covered, so teams like Clearly's can run rampant in the metagame. In similar teams such as Z Celebrate Sylveon Fairy and Z Purify Pyukumuku Water, the opportunity cost of using these strategies is fairly low, losing one teamslot for many more win conditions. This strategy can come in the form of making difficult-to-break Pokemon even more powerful, such as Baton Passing to Mega Sableye, or in the form of boosting the potential of offensive threats, such as Baton Passing to Greninja. Furthermore, it is inconsistent to allow this strategy with the current Baton Pass clause.

Both clauses can be adapted by expanding them to include offending Z Moves. We would like to receive community opinion and welcome any thoughts you may have on the matter.

 

[dusk raimon]

So baton passing has always been seen as uncompetitive and has received many nerfs due to this fact, going from being able to run full baton pass teams, to only 3 pokemon, then down to only 1 baton pass pokemon being able to pass speed as long as another stat wasn't passed with it. This was ultimately the most "competitive" form of baton pass without actually banning the move as a whole. Being able to use z-moves to bypass these clauses are inherently breaking one of the rules of the metagame, as they can make matchups which are in someone's favour be turned around through luck instead of skill, through the use of evasion passing or just passing a z-celebrate as demonstrated in clearly's team which also bypasses the baton pass clause. However for the z-celebrate pass strategy there are reasons why it is less broken than the evasion pass strategy, for example it can only work once as it involves a z-move, this is the same for the evasion pass idea, however if you just pass +1 in every stat you could be hit/crit and worn down easier. Focusing more on the evasion pass strategy, usable through z-detect or z-camoflauge or a move which boosts evasion, this is even more uncompetitive than the aforementioned just passing +1 in all stats strategy as although it can be used only once as only +1 to one stat, this evasion boost makes every 100 percent accurate move effectively a focus blast, and this a way to make uncompetitive or borderline broken pokemon even more broken, as well as allowing for possible turns of setup on a pokemon which would usually always win 1v1 versus said pokemon, for example, if defensive landorus-therian is in on a +1 evasion mega pinsir which has been passed +1 evasion by a pokemon on a bug team, and landorus-therian goes for a stone edge which would usually hit after mega pinsir goes for sd, but misses due to the +1 evasion that creates a very bad situation for the flying/ground user as they are now facing a huge threat which cant be reliably revenge killed as it has +1 evasion and also very hard hitting moves. This is why in essence i believe evasion passing is the more broken type of the two baton passing strategies, however the first strategy also has elements of the second, while not being as unbalance and uncompetitive. However i believe both of these strategies infringe upon the idea of a balanced and competitive metagame which isnt based on luck and skill. So i would say ban both the use of passing +1 in every stat and evasion passing, but thats just me idk about everyone else.

 

[Acast]

I despise the way Baton Pass has been handled in smogon. Baton Pass clause is the second most complex rule smogon has ever devised, only being beaten out by the Endless Battle clause. People have gone to extraordinarily complex lengths to keep the move in check and it seems to always find a way to create more broken strategies. I believe we should take this opportunity to take one of two possible actions regarding Baton Pass:

1. Do away with Baton Pass clause altogether and just ban the move Baton Pass.

2. Alter Baton Pass clause to remove the restriction on the number of Baton Pass users per team, but ban the combination of any and all boosting + Baton Pass (i.e. only allow dry passing)

Either one of these options accomplishes the intended goal of simplifying Baton Pass clause and making sure passing cannot be abused. Option 1 is simpler and maintains our policy of "keeping the banlist simple". Option 2 allows the move to stick around as a method of pivoting. It's not hugely common in monotype, but many pokemon in other tiers use Baton Pass as a sort of U-turn that doesn't inflict damage, so it might be worth considering option 2.

A side benefit of either one of these options is that Blaziken would be nerfed a bit and has a chance to be more manageable, so it could potentially stay in the metagame for once.

Regarding the Evasion clause update, yes absolutely include Z moves in the restrictions. Any evasion boosting is stupid.

 

[scpinion]

Essentially, my opinion on this stuff is to keep the existing clauses, but update them to include new mechanics/moves.

RE: Evasion
The evasion clause should be expanded to include new moves/mechanics. If it only applies to us then so be it, but I wholeheartedly agree the z-move variants should be banned too.

RE: Baton Pass
I prefer to incorporate z-moves into the existing clause that worked well in the previous generation. If new strategies arise that don't violate this clause and are too good/unhealthy for the metagame then we can look into other options.

 

[Sabella]

Had the chance to see how broken z celebrate + bpass is. From what i gather it looks like baton pass will be even better then suspense pass in monotype last gen. Last gen you couldnt pass speed + other boosts im not for banning baton pass bc its still a good pivot move that avoids pursuit so i think thats a good positive. But if we are gonna keep bpass i think it the way it was last gen seemed the most balanced. TLDR: keep bpass but dont allow it to pass speed + other boosts.

 

[Wanka]

Yeah banning the move all together isn't the solution imo. I haven't had the chance to try it myself but I have seen it in play and it does kinda look dumb. It shouldn't be a surprise that the new generation has been fiddling with the clauses in place so I think we can just accept it and edit the clause to make sure BP doesn't get out of hand, which is entirely possible to accomplish if we put in the effort. That's generally what all the OT's do with BP so we wouldn't be straying from smogon policy tbh since everyone else does it.

 

[scpinion]

The council has voted on its first round of quickbans based on the discussion brought up in this thread.

Power Construct: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Aegislash: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Pheromosa: Ban (6/7 voted ban, 1 wait)
Terrain Extender: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Damp Rock: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Smooth Rock: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Blaziken: Ban (6/7 voted ban, 1 wait)
Kartana: Wait (7/7 voted wait)

We also voted to:
1) Extend Evasion Clause to include new z-moves
2) Extend BP Clause to include new z-moves

Tagging The Immortal so these can be ready when the Monotype ladder goes up.

 

[Diakou]

The council has voted on its first round of quickbans based on the discussion brought up in this thread.

Power Construct: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Aegislash: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Pheromosa: Ban (6/7 voted ban, 1 wait)
Terrain Extender: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Damp Rock: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Smooth Rock: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Blaziken: Ban (6/7 voted ban, 1 wait)
Kartana: Wait (7/7 voted wait)

We also voted to:
1) Extend Evasion Clause to include new z-moves
2) Extend BP Clause to include new z-moves

Tagging The Immortal so these can be ready when the Monotype ladder goes up.

I actually really like the Kartana Wait, no need to rush that pokemon. Nice Picks on what to Ban Council , even though these were the obv picks

 

[Sabella]

I agree with all the bans except Blaziken that i had talked about with the council for a bit. I only see one post here which was by a council member. Its not that i think its not very good or anything like that but i think it was very premature for a somewhat controversial mon like blaziken to be banned. The games only been out for a week and even though there have been tours and tests with friends like that I dont think thats even close enough time for people to experiment and get creative with way to check it on teams that maybe weak to it. I could be entirely wrong about this but I want to hear some other peoples thoughts on this. If im the only one that feels this way then ill just shut up lol.

 

[juleocesar]

I agree with all the bans except Blaziken that i had talked about with the council for a bit. I only see one post here which was by a council member. Its not that i think its not very good or anything like that but i think it was very premature for a somewhat controversial mon like blaziken to be banned. The games only been out for a week and even though there have been tours and tests with friends like that I dont think thats even close enough time for people to experiment and get creative with way to check it on teams that maybe weak to it. I could be entirely wrong about this but I want to hear some other peoples thoughts on this. If im the only one that feels this way then ill just shut up lol.

Although I do agree it might have been early to ban it right in first wave / council gathering, I think it was fairly reasonable due to its great ability to sweep teams and provide an autowin scenario against specific types in the metagame. It goes in a similiar vein as Talonflame back in Gen 6 since it has access to Speed Boost and can also run Swords Dance to further increase its sweeping potential, making it nearly impossible to revenge kill.

By the way, I think it would be better if the community nominated the Pokemons they deemed broken and then the council takes the final say about whether the referred Pokemon should be banned or wait. This way it will be better to prioritize the order of banning Pokemons rather than it solely depending on council members bringing it up to the table. For example, Mega-Metagross was a potential pokemon to be nominated and it was rather left behind while Kartana was clearly not as strong and still brought up, but with the community input it could have been discussed right away.

 

[DoW]

Although I do agree it might have been early to ban it right in first wave / council gathering, I think it was fairly reasonable due to its great ability to sweep teams and provide an autowin scenario against specific types in the metagame. It goes in a similiar vein as Talonflame back in Gen 6 since it has access to Speed Boost and can also run Swords Dance to further increase its sweeping potential, making it nearly impossible to revenge kill.

By the way, I think it would be better if the community nominated the Pokemons they deemed broken and then the council takes the final say about whether the referred Pokemon should be banned or wait. This way it will be better to prioritize the order of banning Pokemons rather than it solely depending on council members bringing it up to the table. For example, Mega-Metagross was a potential pokemon to be nominated and it was rather left behind while Kartana was clearly not as strong and still brought up, but with the community input it could have been discussed right away.

This sounds unnecessary and honestly would probably just slow the process down, IMO. Most likely what would happen would be that all pokemon that the council would consider will be nominated, alongside a vast number of other pokemon as well. The purpose of quickbans is, in part, that they're quick, and I think having to get nominations in would slow the process down without adding anything.

 

[juleocesar]

This sounds unnecessary and honestly would probably just slow the process down, IMO. Most likely what would happen would be that all pokemon that the council would consider will be nominated, alongside a vast number of other pokemon as well. The purpose of quickbans is, in part, that they're quick, and I think having to get nominations in would slow the process down without adding anything.

There's more than enough time between the ban waves (which usually happens every 1~2 weeks); I think it is perfectly fine to use that time to see the community's input on what it is more willing to be banned. The main goal is to prioritize Pokemon that are more controversial between the ban waves, which could have a significant impact in consecutive tests. This is a more reliable way to avoid issues like discussing or banning Pokemon way too early (similiarly to Sabella's post was about Blaziken), while still giving room to more explicity broken cases to take place. Do note the final say is still the council's so this suggestion will have zero impact upon the meetings other than the nominated Pokemon.

 

[Wanka]

It's not like the council is leaving pokemon like mega metagross out either. We have time, the ladder isn't even out yet and the council is moving as quickly as they can. There's no need for "how come this mon got banned/voted on, but this mon hasn't" yet. It was the first wave of more to come, there is no isssue with the process imo, we just have to be patient and again, there isn't even a ladder yet lmao.

I do agree with sab somewhat about blaze though. I agree with the popular opinion that all of those things were obvious unanimous decisions, but I think blaze may have been pre mature. It's not that I don't trust vid because I do, and I think that it could still be pretty overwhelming for the meta. That being said though, I think it was somewhat naive due to the fact that it has probably been the least tested with mon/banned thing out of everything we unbanned and are reconsidering. I think it had the potential to be somewhat controversial and It seems it was a matter of one person knowing its impact and everyone else just trusting it. And again, I'm not saying the opinion is wrong because it could very well be true, but I think time could've helped with blaze. if i'm wrong about the opinion thing and you all have had a good amount of experience with testing and seeing its effect so far, then I will eat my humble pie in silence.

Edit: juleocesar that's not how a quick ban system works. The council is currently using something that is called a "koko system" and it doesn't involve community opinion in it. I understand what you are saying, but what you are saying simply just doesn't apply to the system they are using. It is a very proven system for situations like these as well so I think we can trust it for the initial stages of gen 7.

 

[Acast]

We watch this thread to see what you guys think about the metagame. If something comes up in the discussion here and it seems a decent number of people want it banned, we'll discuss it among the 7 of us. If something is clearly overpowered and no one brings it up here, the council is not going to wait for someone to bring it up. We'll bring it up ourselves, which is exactly what Clearly and Eien did in this thread not too long ago with Baton Pass and Evasion. In order to get this metagame functioning properly during such a chaotic time, we need a combination of council initiative and community input. It's not going to work unless we have both.

 

[TheAce22]

Hi, just wanted to bring up how strong Kartana is against ground, especially now that Zygarde-C is banned. (I'm gonna focus more on steel with Kartana for my examples and just sum up the grass matchup by: Kartana+Grassy Terrain+ 4 others.) I'm not at all saying it should not have been banned, it was insanely broken but now that it is banned how can ground really beat Kartana? Hitting a 109 speed tier along with jolly allows Kartana to outspeed threats such as Landorus or Chomp with Blast on ground. Using a band, which allows it to hit 691 attack, will utterly destroy ground. Leaf blade just kills everything honestly, I mean some things such as Hippo or Garchomp can take 1 if there aren't any hazards but what are they doing back unless chomp is scarf. Also Gliscor which can kind of take it on if it's running max def+protect/already got it's orb activated is just baiting in skarm to set up some juicy spikes. I mean exca can attempt to hit it with an earthquake(which doesn't ohko anyways with band) but once again it's just baiting skarm. Overall there are some things that can beat it such as scarf chomp if played very well but Skarmory/Celesteela + Kartana pretty much just destroys ground.

 

[scpinion]

We watch this thread to see what you guys think about the metagame. If something comes up in the discussion here and it seems a decent number of people want it banned, we'll discuss it among the 7 of us. If something is clearly overpowered and no one brings it up here, the council is not going to wait for someone to bring it up. We'll bring it up ourselves, which is exactly what Clearly and Eien did in this thread not too long ago with Baton Pass and Evasion. In order to get this metagame functioning properly during such a chaotic time, we need a combination of council initiative and community input. It's not going to work unless we have both.

Adding on to this: we don't want to vote on things that don't get brought up here in the discussion thread (weather rocks are the exception, we wanted to ban those as soon as we saw weather mechanics didn't change). For example, Kartana was brought up multiple times, so we voted on it in this first wave (and we'll likely vote on it in subsequent waves). Similarly, we made sure things that we deemed troublesome (evasion, BP, pheromosa, aegi, etc.) got brought up in time for people to weigh in before we voted.

Overall, I'd rather tier 'slowly' and let people discuss here, rather than have the council just discuss everything amongst ourselves and post decisions. Community involvement was missing for nearly every decision the council made in gen6 and we don't want the same issue this go round. If something in the metagame bugs you, please post about it so we can discuss it!

 

[G-Luke]

Where can this be played?

Lower Tier Monotype will never be the same

 

[Kilgrave]

I feel that these bans were right and the mons/items banned really should have gone.

Anyway, I've realised that we're missing some vital mega stones. Being a Psychic user, I'm hit hard by the fact that we've lost Mega Gardevoir, Mega Latias, Mega Latios (not like we needed that piece of garbage anyway) and worst of all, my baby Mega Medicham is gone :'(

That leaves us with Mega Metagross and Mega Alakazam. It looks like Psychic will have to rely on Mega Gross as their mega now. It would help against the increasing number of fairies, and Psychic teams could do with it power, bulk, speed and typing.

Of course, we need to give the metagame time to adapt to Mega Gross, but should it get banned like last gen, we're stuck with Mega Alakazam. Honestly I think at that point Psychic teams would be better off not using a mega. Mega Zam doesn't offer much to Psychic apart from Trace, even with the Sp.Def buff it received this gen.

Overall, when it comes to megas, Psychic lost it's Mega Sableye check, it's best answer to Dark, the bulky stall Dragon, and the mega nobody uses or cares about. But it means that we could potentially be stuck with Mega Zam until GF put the rest of the mega stones into a gen 7 game. I'm gonna be using Mega Metagross a lot and I imagine a lot of Psychic teams will too. Still, at least we got Tapu Lele.

 

[archbayleef]

Hi, just wanted to bring up how strong Kartana is against ground, especially now that Zygarde-C is banned. (I'm gonna focus more on steel with Kartana for my examples and just sum up the grass matchup by: Kartana+Grassy Terrain+ 4 others.) I'm not at all saying it should not have been banned, it was insanely broken but now that it is banned how can ground really beat Kartana? Hitting a 109 speed tier along with jolly allows Kartana to outspeed threats such as Landorus or Chomp with Blast on ground. Using a band, which allows it to hit 691 attack, will utterly destroy ground. Leaf blade just kills everything honestly, I mean some things such as Hippo or Garchomp can take 1 if there aren't any hazards but what are they doing back unless chomp is scarf. Also Gliscor which can kind of take it on if it's running max def+protect/already got it's orb activated is just baiting in skarm to set up some juicy spikes. I mean exca can attempt to hit it with an earthquake(which doesn't ohko anyways with band) but once again it's just baiting skarm. Overall there are some things that can beat it such as scarf chomp if played very well but Skarmory/Celesteela + Kartana pretty much just destroys ground.

When I played steel last generation, one of my main fears was Nidoking with the powerful ground/fire combo. Give it scarf and it will outspeed band Kartana with guaranteed OHKO with both EP and Flamethrower. In this case, Skarmory/Celesteela and even Heatran with popped balloon or leftovers are not safe switch-ins.

That said, Kartana still limits teambuilding and probably should be looked at.

 

[feen]

Overall, when it comes to megas, Psychic lost it's Mega Sableye check

That's literally what Tapu Lele does -_-

I think Psychic will be a pretty cool type esp with stuff like Necrozma being a nice rocker although it doesnt get the reliable recovery Mew has. Meloetta will still be amazing on Psychic teams for combating ghosts (dont use Oranguru pls) and Tapu Lele will be very good, as it can not only check Darks but Psychic terrain screws Bisharp and Doublade over so there goes one major threat to Psychic teams. Z-Celebrate Espeon with Dazz Psyshock and HP Fire could be a thing as well. With powerhouses like Hoopa-U, Victini, and Tapu Lele alongside defensive backbones in Mew, Necrozma, Slowbro, and Meloetta, Psychic will prolly be a better type than it was last gen esp due to Psychic Terrain.

Here's a Tapu Lele about to screw the tier up:

Hide

 

[Eien]

I feel that these bans were right and the mons/items banned really should have gone.

Anyway, I've realised that we're missing some vital mega stones. Being a Psychic user, I'm hit hard by the fact that we've lost Mega Gardevoir, Mega Latias, Mega Latios (not like we needed that piece of garbage anyway) and worst of all, my baby Mega Medicham is gone :'(

That leaves us with Mega Metagross and Mega Alakazam. It looks like Psychic will have to rely on Mega Gross as their mega now. It would help against the increasing number of fairies, and Psychic teams could do with it power, bulk, speed and typing.

Of course, we need to give the metagame time to adapt to Mega Gross, but should it get banned like last gen, we're stuck with Mega Alakazam. Honestly I think at that point Psychic teams would be better off not using a mega. Mega Zam doesn't offer much to Psychic apart from Trace, even with the Sp.Def buff it received this gen.

Overall, when it comes to megas, Psychic lost it's Mega Sableye check, it's best answer to Dark, the bulky stall Dragon, and the mega nobody uses or cares about. But it means that we could potentially be stuck with Mega Zam until GF put the rest of the mega stones into a gen 7 game. I'm gonna be using Mega Metagross a lot and I imagine a lot of Psychic teams will too. Still, at least we got Tapu Lele.

I think you're selling Mega Alakazam a little short. I know Mega Metagross was the formerly banned Mega Evolution and that Mega Alakazam was almost unused in ORAS Monotype, but SuMo has really brought Mega Alakazam up to be at least partially competitive with Mega Metagross in my opinion for the current metagame. The most obvious useful buff was the new way Speed is calculated on the turn Alakazam Mega Evolves. It now comes right out of the gates with 438 Speed, which is faster than threats like Ash Greninja, Tapu Koko, and Choice Scarf Xurkitree.

It has also received an amazing teammate in Tapu Lele. Tapu Lele can set Psychic Terrain, which both boosts Mega Alakazam's power and keeps it save from priority attacks, while also taking out Dark-types that Mega Alakazam would often have to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast to take on.

Furthermore, the meta is very offensive right now and the few walls that Mega Alakazam had a hard time breaking like Chansey are nowhere to be seen. Instead, very common threats include weather abusers like Sand Rush Excadrill and Surge Surfer Alolan Raichu, which Mega Alakazam's Trace is basically tailored to check. Many new abilities have been released that Mega Alakazam just can't wait to Trace, such as Beast Boost and Soul-Heart, and Greninja's unban offers up Protean.

I'm not saying that Mega Alakazam is an amazing threat now, but it's definitely something I've already built around and expect to have continued success with. I'd give it a fair try before writing it off to be as useless as it might have been last generation!

 

[Day Healer]

The council has voted on its first round of quickbans based on the discussion brought up in this thread.

Power Construct: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Aegislash: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Pheromosa: Ban (6/7 voted ban, 1 wait)
Terrain Extender: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Damp Rock: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Smooth Rock: Ban (7/7 voted ban)
Blaziken: Ban (6/7 voted ban, 1 wait)
Kartana: Wait (7/7 voted wait)

We also voted to:
1) Extend Evasion Clause to include new z-moves
2) Extend BP Clause to include new z-moves

Tagging The Immortal so these can be ready when the Monotype ladder goes up.

I agree with all the bans which have been done, and it really makes me really happy the council is doing this good this gen yaya.
Now from what I have played, and from what I heard of other players, possible new suspects could be:

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Kartana: 181 attack unboosted, speed enough to outspeed the 4 musketeers and very nice defense (it can resist a banded EQ from excadrill iirc), it can solo sweep grounds, waters (unless SSipper Azumarill or Kingdra outspeed on rain), Rocks, Fairies, Fightings (unless dark/fighting mon or cobalion Psycho cut sweeps)... I personally use choice scarf on it alla Moxie Salamence gen4, and it works great on it
On the downside it have low base power attacking moves, and its spe defense is paper thin so it dies to resisted special attacks. Anyways illama explained Kartana far better than me so check it :3

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Xurkitree: It have average stats all around except its special attack (173) and access to Tail Glow, also further boosted by electric terrain. I have used it like scarfer on monoelectric and it does fairly well with its ability, even if sometimes is still slow like scarfer compared to other ones. Can't comment on Tail Glow becos have never see it being used. A mon to watch out ya

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Tapu Koko: It have great speed tier and nice mixed offenses, greatly support its team (mostly electric) with its ability and can sometimes force pass its counters (excadrill, chansey, cradily from the top of my head) with its z move Guardian of Alola.
On the other hand it greatly helps electric to be relevant again, and also helps them again dragons and breloom, not counting is the main reason alolan raichu is being used too. So im still not sure if the pros outclass the cons or the contrary.

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Tapu Lele: It looks like an upgraded gardevoir, same typing and best stats overall. The mon itself isn't problematic, the issue is the support it bring with its ability to psychic teams (sucker punch, shadow sneak and other priorities disabled) so Hoopa-u and co. can sweep without the danger of priorities. (Not to talk how hard hoopa-u hits with psychic stab)
About the pros, it helps fairy mono again the steel matchup, like bullet punch is disabled, and a nice poison check (always replacing gardevoir)

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Mega Metagross: This thing is a monster and everyone knows it lel. Great speed, attack and super bulk, mega gross helps both steel and psychic monos overall. Not spending too much words because everyone knows what it does ya.

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Mega Slowbro: I don't have seen it used much except in a water stall with a Regenerator core (mega) Slowbro-Toxapex and it was painful to watch. Not many mons can stop it from settupin, and even in its normal form it is useful like physical wall. Not clue how it does on monopsychic, so if someone have experience with it, could be apreciated sharing it :3

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Toxapex: This thing was the surprise of this gen hands down. Regenerator, 152/142 defenses, Poison typing to absorb toxic spikes, recover, a signature move which protects user and poison the opponent, and the best move in the game Scald, whats not to love in this mon. Like expected many types have problems breaking this mon, even if is offensive stats are weak. A mon to have an eye on.

Well thats all I guess, my personal opinion is:
- Kartana, Mega Metagross, Mega Slowbro: Bannable
- Xurkitree, Tapu koko, Tapu lele, Toxapex: Borderline (still not sure)
It helps council banned Terrain Extender, so we can see if it nerfs a bit the 2 tapus.