OU SM OU - Victim of the Week (Week 4 - Zard-Y)

Katy

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banner made by royalfluxh thanks alot ^.^<3

The SM OU metagame is full of a plethora of both offensive and defensive threats, and this thread is dedicated to finding answers to a Pokemon each week!

Rules:

1. When nominating your check/counter take a gander at The Smog:
Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

There are some parts of those definitions that may be confusing to the unfamiliar, so now I'm going to make sure we're all on the same page. "Hax" does not mean cheats or codes used to win. "Hax" means, loosely, things that have a chance of happening but usually don't, for example, critical hits (under most circumstances), Ice Beam freezing, and Fire Blast missing. This means that we don't take into account these types of things when we analyze if one Pokémon checks or counters another. Despite this, it's unwise to declare that one Pokémon checks another when the victorious Pokémon relies on hitting Focus Blast three times in a row, or something like that. Basically, you're often okay ignoring hax unless something that doesn't have a high chance of happening must happen in order for a Pokémon to check or counter another.

There are some things, like flinching, which you would normally consider to be hax but aren't always so. For example, Jirachi has a 60% chance to flinch a slower opponent with Iron Head, so in this case, flinching is not hax because it happens over half the time. For things such as missing or secondary effects, such as a Scald burn or Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, that have a decently high chance of happening, you need to think about them when you analyze checks or counters. Even though they might fit the standard definition of hax, they happen often enough for you to expect to see them in real situations somewhat commonly. There's no official or best guideline, but in my opinion, if some form of "hax" has a 30% chance or higher of happening, you should keep it in the back of your mind because it's not a negligible occurrence.

2. Only post Pokemon and Sets that are viable in SM OU. Try to stick to the Pokemon on the Viability Rankings.
3. Reservations are allowed, however if you don't complete your post within 24 hours someone else is free to take your Pokemon.
4. You can correct people, but obviously be nice.
5. Calcs are incredibly helpful, but not necessary.
6. Give explanations. Not a thesis or anything, but more than one sentence should be fine.
7. If someone posts a Pokemon with a certain set, you can only submit the same Pokemon if it has a directly different set.​
 
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Katy

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Week 1:

:ss/greninja-ash:
Greninja (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken

- Spikes

With a great Speed tier combined with a great SpA stat and an incredible good typing is Ash-Greinja an amazing Pokemon in the SM OU metagame and for sure one of the mest metagame defining Pokemon in this tier. Hydro Pump / Surf lets it fire off some powerful attacks and can threaten a plethora of Pokemon and Dark Pulse gives it the 2nd STAB it needs to burst through a lot of Pokemon, which can't take both STABs very well. With Spikes it is able to wear down its check and counters in an incredible helpful way and with Battle Bond and Choice Specs it can even threaten resistent Pokemon. Water Shuriken is a great way of dealing with faster threats such as Choice Scarf Landorus-T, Mega Alakazam, and it can pick off Choice Scarf Kartana as well. What are Pokemon, which can deal well with this blue frog?

Submissions end on next Saturday and I wish you all a lot of fun! :blobwizard:
 

Magnum

ready to go!
is a Pre-Contributor
Reserving Tapu Fini!

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Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 120 SpD / 104 Spe
Calm Nature
- Defog
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Taunt

While set up fini is a lot rarer in SM as oppossed to its normal Defog set, CM is one of the hardest counters in the game to gren, if not the hardest counter since it after a single boost Greninja can’t hope to break through it

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 120 SpD Tapu Fini: 83-98 (24.1 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery


0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 266-314 (93.3 - 110.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
 
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Reserving Magearna.

:SM/Magearna:

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Volt Switch
- Fleur Cannon
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire / Ice Beam
- Iron Head / Energy Ball / Explosion

Nomming Magearna as a check. The incredible bulk on Magearna on the special side (boosted by Assault Vest) allows him to resist Ash-Greninja's Hydro Pump (or Surf under Rain). Some calcs to prove my point:

- 252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 224+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 102-121 (28 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

- 252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Surf vs. 248 HP / 224+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna in Rain: 127-150 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Moreover, he's probably the only check to Ash-greninja able to recapture the momentum with Volt Switch (Fleur Cannon is enough to scare off Ash-Greninja). However, his lack of recovery oblige him to fit only on really offensive teams (where you only need to keep under control Ash-Greninja on very short terms).
 
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specially defensive bulu: COUNTER

:sm/tapu-bulu:
Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Synthesis/Protect

:tapu-bulu: resists both stabs from :greninja-ash: and OHKO in return. The extra recovery of the grassy terrain coupled with leftovers makes it even harder for :greninja-ash: to win the duel.

some calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 82-97 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 113-133 (32.9 - 38.7%) -- 96.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

0 Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash in Grassy Terrain: 416-492 (145.9 - 172.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power Fire
- Focus Blast

Tapu Lele is a reliable check to Ash-Greninja because it will always outspeed and knock out the typical Choice Specs set. This is thanks to its Psychic Surge ability, granting it immunity to priority Water Shuriken which other Choice Scarf revenge-killers struggle with. Greninja is reliant on Water Shuriken to stop fast threats like Kartana and Mega Alakazam, so even if Tapu Lele isn’t currently on the battlefield, the lingering effects of Psychic Terrain will temporarily limit Greninja’s offensive presence. The Choice Scarf allows Tapu Lele to bypass Dark Pulse flinches and surpass Greninja’s outstanding Speed tier, OHKOing it with a super-effective Moonblast.
 

Egor

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:sm/toxapex:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 144 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic / Toxic Spikes / Baneful Bunker / Knock Off

A very common way to handle Ash-Greninja (to prevent it from transforming, more precisely) is using a combination of Water + Dark resists. Toxapex, while being one of the best Pokemon in general, is also an amazing fit to this combination: Water typing, nice special bulk, access to Regenerator & Recover all contribute to this. Toxapex can use the turn it forces out Greninja to various purposes, such as spreading status and regaining itself health. However, Ash-Greninja, due to how well it forces switches, can easily abuse Toxapex coming in by setting Spikes, which puts enough pressure on the opposition and eventually makes it possible to overwhelm Toxapex. Thus, Toxapex is not quite a counter but a hard check to Ash-Greninja, in my vision.
 
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Pujo

Trip to heaven
is a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
reserving Kommowo

kommowo.png

Kommowo (Kommo-o) @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 116 SpD / 140 Spe OR 252 HP / 196 SpD / 60 Spe
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock / Rock Slide / Earthquake
- Protect
- Drain Punch​

Nominating Kommowo as a counter (check to unviable Ice Beam sets) to Greninja. Kommowo is able to reliably switch into Greninja, threatening it with its STAB Drain Punch serving as a semi-reliable source of recovery. Kommowo stands out as a Gren check by its niche of being the only Gren counter capable of setting up Rocks (Ferrothorn counting as a semi-check). It is also a tremendous Heatran and Charizard-Y switch in if running Rock Slide, making it useful outside of Gren MUs (as opposed to a certain grass-type Tapu). Kommo-o is also quite difficult to switch into without Tapu Fini or Gliscor, since it can easily spread Toxic on Drain Punch resists, or set-up Rocks as Greninja switches out. It is also resistant to opposing Stealth Rock, and Protect allows it to easily negate Spikes damage.

Calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Kommowo: 84-99 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Kommowo: 60-72 (16.9 - 20.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Kommowo: 182-216 (51.4 - 61%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (3HKO after Protect + Lefties recovery if no hazards are up.)

0 Atk Kommowo Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 242-288 (84.9 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (34.1 - 40.3% recovered)
 
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Reserving Tapu Fini!

View attachment 376954

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 12 SpA / 40 SpD / 192 Spe
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Scald
- Taunt


While set up fini is a lot rarer in SM as oppossed to its normal Defog set, CM Draining Kiss is one of the hardest counters in the game to gren, if not the hardest counter since it heals the exact same amount of health Gren does with it's strongest move at neutral

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 106-126 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

12 SpA Tapu Fini Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Ash: 140-168 (49.1 - 58.9%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO (30.6 - 36.7% recovered)
In Gen 7, Tapu Fini doesn't get draining kiss. However, I think you can keep your post like that and just remove Draining Kiss from his Moveset.
 
Reserving hydreigon

Hydreigon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 68 SpA / 96 SpD / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Earth Power
- Draco Meteor
Free spread lol

Nomming hydreigon as a hard check (fuck ice beam) to Ash Greninja. With resistances to both water and dark, and an immunity to spikes thanks to levitate, Hydreigon can consistently switch in and prevent it from gaining offensive momentum. While the majority of Hydreigon use offensive z-move sets, Hydra has the unique niche in it's ability to prevent the spikes A-Gren sets, as well as its access to reliable recovery. Hydras usefulness also extends outside of the Ash Gren MU as an effective defogger against most Heatran variants, as well as checking balance breakers Blacephalon and Kyurem-B (draco meteor is good trust).

Calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 112 HP / 96 SpD Hydreigon: 112-132 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 112 HP / 96 SpD Hydreigon: 81-96 (22.9 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 112 HP / 96 SpD Hydreigon in Rain: 168-198 (47.5 - 56%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Surf vs. 112 HP / 96 SpD Hydreigon in Rain: 138-162 (39 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Ice Beam vs. 112 HP / 96 SpD Hydreigon: 246-290 (69.6 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (lol)

68 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 237-280 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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adem

lovely
is a Live Chat Contributor
:bw/chansey:
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

Chansey hard walls all Ash Greninja variants, taking minimal damage from any of its attacks. However, Chansey can be overwhelmed in the long term by Greninja stacking multiple layers of Spikes, as well as Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps. This situation is generally not that common though as it requires meticulous proactive play on behalf of the Greninja player, as well as the Chansey player not responding actively in Defogging Greninja’s Spikes.
 
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Pujo

Trip to heaven
is a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
reserving kyurem black

:ss/kyurem-black:

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Substitute
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

ok yea, so kyurem black itself is a pretty good mon, which a solid enough typing. its stats are decent enough to take some hits and deliver a fatal blow to the opponent. speaking of greninja, i would like to nominate kyurem-black as a decent enough check, as its is able to tank hits and kill it afterwards.

some calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 139-164 (35.5 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 204-240 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black in Rain: 208-246 (53.1 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 368-434 (129.1 - 152.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(its my first project submission gg)
I don't think LOKB has the defensive capabilites to check Greninja, even prior to Battle Bond activating.
Dark Pulse is the cleanest of 2HKOs on Naive Sets, while HPump has a good chance of 2HKOing after Rocks as well, especially since you're not running Roost on this set.
Going with a bulkier spread might work, since KB prolly doesn't need investment to mold Gren with Fusion Bolt.
 

a salamence

formerly Dinesh Raj Gujjula
hello again, reserving tangrowth

:ss/tangrowth:

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake


so tangrowth is without out a doubt, some of the best check for greninja (besides the ice beam set), since its typing itself is a great counter for water typings and along with assault vest, it is able to tank greninja's stab dark pulse and at the same time recover and hurt it using giga drain

some calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 84-99 (20.7 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 121-144 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 31.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth in Rain: 126-148 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- 72.5% chance to 3HKO


0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 234-276 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Katy

You should know I'm never gonna change!
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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Alright pretty people, lets get it going! This week we started with Ash-Greninja as the Victim:

Checks:
Assault Vest Magearna by KaiserKaiba
Choice Scarf Tapu Lele by martinvtran
Specially defensive Toxapex by Egor
Defog Hydreigon by Proftreez
Eviolite Chansey by adem
Assault Vest Tangrowth by Dinesh Raj Gujjula

Counters:
Defog Tapu Fini by Magnum
Specially defensive Tapu Bulu by Maktyum
Leftovers Kommo-o by Pujo

Vote for 2 Checks and 2 Counters! Voting deadline is Monday!
 

Katy

You should know I'm never gonna change!
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
So our winners of Week 1 for Counters are: Tapu Fini and Kommo-o. For Checks the winners are: Toxapex and Magearna.

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Gratulations to you. Your submissions will go into the Hall of Fame.

Now onto the next Pokemon:

:ss/Tapu Koko:
Tapu Koko @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
Hidden Power: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt

- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

- Roost

This Rooster can outrun a lot of Pokemon in the OU Metagame with its fantastic Speed tier and its great offensive but also defensive typing it can act as a check to a plethora of offensive and defensive Pokemon alike in the SM OU Metagame such as Hawlucha, Tornadus-T, Toxapex, and Celesteela. Tapu Koko can also pressure Ground-types such as Landorus-T, which repeatedly comes in to check Tapu Koko. Furthermore, Shuca Berry and Hidden Power Ice allows Tapu Koko to pressure Landorus-T, and Gliscor. U-turn allows it to constantly pivot out of unfavorable Matchups such as Assault Vest Tangrowth, Amoonguss, and Excadrill. However, how would you check this amazing electrifying Fairy? Let us find out.

Submission ends on Friday. Have fun everyone <3

 
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Magnum

ready to go!
is a Pre-Contributor
Reserving Chansey!

:ss/Excadrill:

Excadrill @ Steelium Z
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin

Drill is immune to Thunderbolt and takes little from both HP Ice and U-turn and is able to either KO it or force it out, making it a pretty solid check!

252 Atk Excadrill Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 307-363 (109.2 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Tapu Koko: 193-228 (68.6 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Tapu Koko: 384-453 (136.6 - 161.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Reserving Gastrodon.

:SM/Gastrodon:
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic / Clear Smog / Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Earth Power​

Gastrodon is a very interesting pokemon capable of containing many threats from the metagame like Ash-Greninja, Heatran (beware of Toxic), Magearna, Rotom-Wash or, what interests us, Tapu Koko. Indeed, with his very good bulk on the Special, his excellent dual-typing and his ability to regenerate, Gastrodon is able to hold Tapu Koko in check over very long terms, particularly when he cannot stay on Gastrodon because of Earthquake. However, if grass coverage is rarely seen on Tapu Koko, moves like Toxic can annoy Gastrodon, even U-turn if the opponent manages to maintain enough pressure to prevent Gastrodon's Recover. However, despite all these points mentioned, I nominate Gastrodon as a Counter to Tapu Koko.

Some Calcs to prove my point:

-252 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 44-52 (10.3 - 12.2%)

-0- Atk Tapu Koko U-turn vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Gastrodon: 69-82 (16.2 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

Some Calcs with other Tapu Koko's Sets:

-For Tapu Koko Choice Specs: 252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 129-153 (30.3 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

-For Tapu Koko Z-Wild Charge: 252 Atk Tapu Koko U-turn vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Gastrodon: 96-113 (22.5 - 26.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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