Resource SM Ubers Tournament Discussion

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Aberforth

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#1
approved by Hack

So with the Auction yesterday, we now know for certain who is playing in this SPL, and with Ubers back in it after being forced to sit out last year. We also know the weekly matchups, and so this seems as good a time as any to make a general thread about the upcoming SPL. This thread will be used to discuss the games that have happened, teams, the draft, innovations seen in SPL and discussion over upcoming (highlight) games.

First, congratulations to the ubers players who got drafted! As a reminder, here they are, with the expected starter bolded:

Sharks - dice, Lord Outrage, Minority
Classiest - sin and victimization
Wolfpack - PROBLEMS, aim
Ruiners - Astounded, Pohjis
Cryonicles - psychicmewtwo, Ice Tea
Scooters - Gunner Rohan, Mr.378
Tigers - Edgar, Steve Angello
Raiders - Hack
BIGs - Level 56
Falcons - zf, Lacus Clyne


There are some rather notable names on there, if only for how unexpected it was that they were picked up. Sin and Victimization was apparently found by Omfuga playing on PO, so nobody knows how good he is at the moment, and I honestly dont know who is first choice between Psychic Mewtwo and Ice Tea. Psychic Mewtwo claimed SM Ubers in his signup post, so I've assumed he'll start, however he is a newcomer to the ubers scene, and Ice Tea was Grand Slam champion, so the Cryos might choose to play him in Ubers, despite the fact that he never won a game in Ubers in that Grand Slam run.

Everyone else on the other hand is a well known ubers main who have all consistantly performed at the highest level, and we're bound to see plenty of high quality games. The strongest lineup is debatable (and please do debate it), but the combination of Dice, Lord Outrage and Minority is looking the most solid to me, having strength across the board. The other two arguable ones (imo) are Astounded and Pohjis, and Hack on his lonesome, with Astounded having an excellent understudy to test teams with while protecting his innovation, and Hack just generally being himself.


Week 8 brought the freeing of Pohjis (Hype!!!), and Kingler12345 subbing in for Hack as he takes his break for regular season.

[TGRS] Mazar vs. Gunner Rohan [SCTR]
[[RUIN] Pohjis vs. Minority [SHRK]
[WOLF] The Trap God vs Lacus Clyne [FLCN]
[RAID] Kingler12345 vs. FAJI [CONG]
[BIGS] Level 56 vs. Fireburn [CRYO]​


For Week 1, two games stand out as being obvious highlight matches, Level 56 vs Lord Outrage pairing off two of the best Ubers players over the last two years against each other right from the start, and the pairing of two veterans of the Ubers tier together in Hack and Edgar. I personally feel like Level 56 might have a very slight edge against Lord Outrage in the first matchup, with ragey having been inactive for about 4 months now, and being rusty while playing Level 56 is a difficult task, although I fully expect ragey to finish with a top 2 record this SPL, and he has the ability to go toe to toe with anyone if his rust is shaken off quickly enough.​

Meanwhile in the Hack and Edgar matchup, Hack has the upper hand, having played while Edgar was inactive, and also performing better than anyone else in Ubers, having won the Open without even dropping a game. However, Edgar is no slouch, and even though Hack has an advantage, he will need to make sure he doesn't make any mistakes.


After Week 1's results, we have 2 particularly highlight games this week, with Hack looking to build on his success from last week and start dominating by taking out the only other veteran he has not played, Problems. However Oli has frequently been Hack's bogeyman, with Hack never having beaten Oli in an official tour. History is on Problem's side, but Hack is the form player of this SPL, not having dropped a game in 6 months, and this could well be the year he breaks that no-win streak.

Meanwhile in the other highlight game, we go from veterans to rookies, at least in the SPL scene. Level 56 and Astounded are both 1-0 in their first SPL season and both of the ORAS powerhouses are going to look to make a statement here that they are just as good in Sun and Moon as they were in ORAS.



Astounded vs aim and Level 56 vs Hack are the two particular standout games of this week, aim taking over from Oli as the wolfpack's ubers player following a rather poor start by Oli, and it's not at all like he's a bad pick for the slot, having the joint best record in Ubers in the last SPL ubers was in. After a game where Astounded got unlucky against Level 56, he'll want to make sure that he returns to winning ways against the poketuber. Level 56 vs Hack is the battle of the 2-0s, where we see a repeat of the Ubers Open Finals, and we can only hope that this game is as good as the first game of that series. Could go either way on this one, but Hack is probably in better form right now.

The other three games see Psychic Mewtwo relocated after doing better than anyone thought he could and going 2-0, with Poek97 replacing him to play Gunner Rohan, who lost last week due to a crit and is playing really well. A tough Ubers debut indeed, but if Poek can pull a win against Gunner he can probably give a tough game to anyone else playing ubers as well. SiV and Lacus are playing each other after both have had rather disappointing starts to the SPL campaign, and will both be looking to pick up a victory and use it to launch their SPL campaigns to higher levels of success. Finally, Lord Outrage and Edgar play each other, both players being known for their building means I'm expecting both good and interesting teams to come of this matchup.



Two Highlight games this week, between Level 56 and Aim, and Gunner Rohan and Astounded. In the Level 56 vs Aim matchup, I've given a slight edge to Level 56 here because I feel he knows the meta more and is in a hot run of form following his victories over what many people felt, coming into the season, were the other three best players. Very few can claim the ability to go 3-0 against Lord Outrage, Hack and Astounded in consecutive weeks, and I feel he will continue his dominance, despite aim having a 90% win last week. Aim's not out of it, but Level 56 is right now staking his claim for title of best Ubers player. In the Gunner Rohan vs Astounded matchup, I flipped a coin and it said Heads. These two are practically inseparable, both have played really well this season, but with Astounded's week 3 win coming down to a freeze, I feel Gunner edges him in terms of performance.

In the other matchups, following his loss last week to Edgar, Lord Outrage has been benched in favour of Minority, who will no doubt be eager to try and stake a claim on the starting slot for ubers for the Sharks. Unfortunately for him, there are very few harder SPL debuts in the entire competition than against Hack in Ubers, and I think it likely that Hack will bounce back from his own Week 3 loss. Sin faces Edgar, who has performed well so far this SPL, and will look to continue his winning run against the only remaining winless starter in Ubers. Given the two's respective performances, I feel he probably will. And finally PsychicMewtwo returns from his trip to OU to take on Lacus, fresh off of her win last week against Sin. This is the only game this week I dont feel confident predicting either way, PsychicMewtwo has not impressed me with his builds or his playing, but the same holds true with Lacus on the most part, and PM2 has a very respectable 3-0 record, which implies he's doing something right at least.



After seasonal we saw a lot of changes in the SPL Ubers lineup. Two new additions to the SPL Ubers cast come in The Trap God, Fireburn, and FAJI. While The Trap God faces relatively unknown OU main FAJI, Fireburn has to face Hack coming off of a loss for his debut. Highlight matches include Lacus Clyne vs Lord Outrage after his 2 week hiatus and also Gunner Rohan vs Level 56 as he hopes to extend his undefeated streak. Also, Astounded looks to pick up a win to solidify his already impressive win while Edgar looks to steal a win from Astounded, after starting a bit slow, but picking up pace as the season went on


[SCTR] Gunner Rohan vs. Hack [RAID]
[CRYO] Fireburn vs Minority [SHRK]
[BIGS] Level 56 vs FAJI [CONG]
[WOLF] The Trap God vs Edgar [TGRS]
[FLCN] Lacus Clyne vs Astounded [RUIN]


[RUIN] Astounded vs. Fireburn [CRYO]
[CONG] FAJI vs. Gunner Rohan [SCTR]
[FLCN] Lacus Clyne vs. BKC [RAID]
[WOLF] The Trap God vs. Minority [SHRK]
[BIGS] Level 56 vs. Mazar [TGRS]​


Usage Stats as of the end of Week 7:

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------- +
| -    | Arceus-*           |  69 |  98.57% |  50.72% |
| 1    | Groudon            |  67 |  95.71% |  49.25% |
| 2    | Xerneas            |  32 |  45.71% |  59.38% |
| 3    | Arceus-Ground      |  25 |  35.71% |  36.00% |
| 4    | Gengar             |  20 |  28.57% |  60.00% |
| 4    | Lucario            |  20 |  28.57% |  50.00% |
| 6    | Yveltal            |  19 |  27.14% |  36.84% |
| 7    | Lunala             |  18 |  25.71% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Salamence          |  17 |  24.29% |  41.18% |
| 9    | Ho-Oh              |  13 |  18.57% |  46.15% |
| 10   | Arceus             |  12 |  17.14% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Arceus-Dark        |  11 |  15.71% |  72.73% |
| 11   | Muk-Alola          |  11 |  15.71% |  54.55% |
| 11   | Giratina-Origin    |  11 |  15.71% |  54.55% |
| 14   | Celesteela         |   9 |  12.86% |  66.67% |
| 15   | Kyogre             |   8 |  11.43% |  37.50% |
| 16   | Zygarde            |   7 |  10.00% |  85.71% |
| 16   | Deoxys-Attack      |   7 |  10.00% |  28.57% |
| 18   | Ferrothorn         |   6 |   8.57% |  66.67% |
| 18   | Smeargle           |   6 |   8.57% |  66.67% |
| 18   | Dialga             |   6 |   8.57% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Magearna           |   6 |   8.57% |  33.33% |
| 18   | Arceus-Fairy       |   6 |   8.57% |  33.33% |
| 18   | Excadrill          |   6 |   8.57% |  16.67% |
| 24   | Arceus-Water       |   5 |   7.14% |  80.00% |
| 24   | Rayquaza           |   5 |   7.14% |  60.00% |
| 24   | Lugia              |   5 |   7.14% |  60.00% |
| 24   | Blissey            |   5 |   7.14% |  20.00% |
| 28   | Arceus-Ghost       |   4 |   5.71% |  75.00% |
| 28   | Deoxys-Speed       |   4 |   5.71% |  75.00% |
| 30   | Cloyster           |   3 |   4.29% |  66.67% |
| 30   | Slowbro            |   3 |   4.29% |  66.67% |
| 30   | Chansey            |   3 |   4.29% |  33.33% |
| 30   | Tyranitar          |   3 |   4.29% |   0.00% |
| 30   | Sableye            |   3 |   4.29% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Tapu Lele          |   2 |   2.86% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Bronzong           |   2 |   2.86% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Giratina           |   2 |   2.86% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Mewtwo             |   2 |   2.86% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Greninja           |   2 |   2.86% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Gyarados           |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Aegislash          |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Froslass           |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Metagross          |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Solgaleo           |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Forretress         |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Clefable           |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Aerodactyl         |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Landorus           |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Kyurem-White       |   1 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Klefki             |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Palkia             |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Shuckle            |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Arceus-Steel       |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Dugtrio            |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Gothitelle         |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Tentacruel         |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Landorus-Therian   |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Arceus-Dragon      |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Arceus-Rock        |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Darkrai            |   1 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
Also, reminder, keep this thread within acceptable boundaries. Salt is ok in mild doses, but too much is not good, and we dont want a repeat of last year when we ended up having to close the thread due to how toxic the discussion was.
 
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Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
#2
I think your initial predictions for starters are about right, I can't fathom why Sharks would purchase 3 Ubers players if they're going to play Dice there given his knowledge of other tiers such as BW, a quick look at the Cryonicles roster leads me to think Ice Tea might play LC but who knows.

I'm looking forward to SPL, a lot of the guys here haven't been seen playing much SM given how close SPL was to the release date and wanting to keep stuff under wraps so it'll be interesting to see what they've been working on, will be interesting to see if there's any major metagame developments throughout the tour.

Sorry for being pedantic but it should be Cryonicles in the first hide tag not Cryonicals, petty i know but it bugs me haha. Good luck to all playing!
 
#5
I think every Ubers player from SPL can lose, the tier is new and there are a lot of surprises and good stuff to be used, I think its an interesting way to learn more about this gen and watch the players what they bring, like my tour battle vs Outrage.
 

Aberforth

Californium is PoMMan now.
is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
#7
Correction: Strongest Ubers core is BKC + Hack. Overlooked him bc he's playing old gens and I only looked for people who'd realistically play in this spl. Really hard to argue that that isn't the strongest ubers core now.

Another week to go... Give Matchas!
 
#10
Level 56 vs Lord Outrage
Astounded vs sin and victimization
Hack vs Edgar
Problems vs PsychicMewtwo
Gunner Rohan vs Lacus Clyne
bolding the "vs" isn't a prediction

Astounded vs sin and victimization
Hack vs Edgar
Problems vs PsychicMewtwo

obv interested to see what kinda teams everyone brings, but most curious about what psychicmewtwo, an apparent outsider, brings

agree with magsy that dice trout ms is the strongest core, but only on paper. largely depends on the type of/amount of interaction trout has with them, and knowing his temperament(tho he's been working on it for a while and looks good) it could end up crashing. i hope it goes well tho don't want any drama to ruin spl for our ubers people(specially the debutants)

scooters wolfpack ruiners are very good on that front tho, and i expect that to reflect in the games we watch(not the result, we know mons is a shit game and result is not always accurate of how the game went)
 
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Aberforth

Californium is PoMMan now.
is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
#11
Astounded beat Sin and Victimisation in the first game of SPL for ubers this season.

Watch it here:

Or, if you dont like my self-plugging, here's the replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankubers-233853

A few things to take from this game:
  1. Red card totally works as a substitute for Custap Berry
  2. Oh shit Groudon could be brought in by Red Card
  3. Nvm abort mission
Astounded brought an all or nothing team featuring AeroForre, the old ORAS classic duo, and replaced both of the Hazard Removal Prevention options on that team (Darkrai/Skymin and Ghostceus) with one slot for Lunala. This means he could afford to slot Ekiller in there as his Arceus of choice, not needing it to fulfil the role of spinblocking. This gives the team a better defensive backbone against certain setup sweepers, with him now having something that can reliably revenge kill them after a fair amount of damage has been done to them setting up. Despite this, the team is clearly very momentum heavy, and astounded cant really let momentum out of his grasp when it comes to the game, because giving free setup to things like Lucario, Arceus-Ground or Opposing Pdon after Lunala's Shadow Shield is broken would not be a wize decision.

On the other hand, Sin Victim has brought a somewhat standard offense team with a bit more of a defensive backbone than Astounded does, having things like Dialga, Yveltal, Xerneas and Groundceus to reliably take hits while exerting their own offensive pressure, to try and swing momentum into his favour against similarly built teams, and vs balance. Vs Hazard Stacking HO, however, its difficult to reliably swing the momentum back in his favour as Astounded knows that he cant and wont let Sin get many, if indeed any, turns to breath while facing the offensive threats he has.

I'm less interested in talking about the game itself here as I am the teams. Despite the result, I feel that the team we saw from Sin is more like what we will be seeing as standard soon than what Astounded brought. Astounded opted with the old Aeroforre, as mentioned, but without Custap it doesn't feel nearly as solid to me, and while the red card does prevent being counterswept, a common fault of suicide leads, it is no less mence fodder once the card has been used, and the choice of leftovers on Ekiller seems an odd one to me, due to the lacking firepower that Ekiller would want to provide the extra solid backbone for against opposing setup sweepers. Mixed Pdon is nice as a lure for Mence, and Aerodactyl does help the Mence Weakness, with Pursuit being a nice bring for Gengars, but I feel like the nature of Forretress just makes this offensive core so much worse than it was back in UPL 3. Also the team still faces an uphil battle vs stall, most especially Sableye stall, which outright invalidates Forretress and Aerodactyl.

Meanwhile, the more I think about the team Sin brought, the more I like it. While it is undoubtedly weak to a few particular things, setup spam being the most obvious, he does offensively cover a large portion of the metagame with his offensive mons, although we never got to see the movesets of most of the team. UTurn Yveltal in particular is a nice bring, although reasonably standard, that does very well in helping Sin claim the offensive momentum that he wants in many matchups, including against similarly build Bulky offences. And, assuming an SD Groudon set alongside the Lucario, the team shouldn't have may problems breaking through common stalls. However, the team is far shakier when it has to be on the defensive, and Astounded demonstrated that perfectly, despite the things I dont like about the team.

Overall I feel this was a good game to start the week off on, even if it was on Saturday (all of u are johns), and that this game shows why Astounded is rated so highly by the ubers community, showing off a player in prime form utilising offensive momentum in a near textbook manner.
 
#12
So today there were a bunch of ubers games and it's time for me to give my thoughts on them

Astounded vs Sin: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankubers-233853
Honestly not very impressed with Astounded's build. Sin actually had a very proper team, I'm pretty impressed. He was terribly ekiller weak though and if Astounded either had LO Jolly or silk adamant there was no question of the outcome. I think there were some pretty poor plays by sin, which cost him a good match up. I feel like it's very clear Astounded knew what to do, as always.

Hack vs Edgar: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankubers-233928
Edgar's team was super cool, and to me undoubtedly solid. But it's sticky webs and some match ups are just not great... Getting shuckle shut down was rather easy. Specs Xern proved to be key in breaking Pdon so Lugia had a good time walling, as planned by yours truly ofc.

Problems vs PsychicM2: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankubers-233952
Aside from a bunch of good luck, this win should probably not have happened for PsychicMewtwo if not for some large errors from Problems. The team PsychicMewtwo used was probably good for breaking 1300 on ladder, being notably weak to mence, darkceus, yveltal, any team with amuk etc
 
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Aberforth

Californium is PoMMan now.
is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
#13
Week 2 is upon us and with it comes whole new match ups!

Hack vs Problems
Level 56 vs Astounded

Gunner Rohan vs Lord Outrage
Lacus Clyne vs Edgar
SIV vs Psychic Mewtwo
After Week 1's results, we have 2 particularly highlight games this week, with Hack looking to build on his success from last week and start dominating by taking out the only other veteran he has not played, Problems. However Oli has frequently been Hack's bogeyman, with Hack never having beaten Oli in an official tour. History is on Problem's side, but Hack is the form player of this SPL, not having dropped a game in 6 months, and this could well be the year he breaks that no-win streak.

Meanwhile in the other highlight game, we go from veterans to rookies, at least in the SPL scene. Level 56 and Astounded are both 1-0 in their first SPL season and both of the ORAS powerhouses are going to look to make a statement here that they are just as good in Sun and Moon as they were in ORAS.

Hack vs Problems
Level 56 vs Astounded

Gunner Rohan vs Lord Outrage
Lacus Clyne vs Edgar
SIV
vs Psychic Mewtwo


I'm going to go with History over current form and back Oli to do what he does best by putting a dent into Hack's plans. He arguably should have won his Week 1 game but for hax and chokes, and I feel like he might just bounce right back against someone who he's had the number on for 3 years now. Astounded I feel is a slight favourite in the Level 56 matchup, largely by way of his prep, having longer for the game and having a helping hand in the shape of Pohjis to test with on his team.

Gunner Rohan and Lord Outrage was the third choice for a highlight match, but I felt 3 would be too many HL games, and I dont think I can seperate these two at the moment, Lord Outrage still finding his feet a bit since returning from his 4 month break, and Gunner fresh from the only 6-0 win of the first week in Ubers. Lacus is going to look to recover from that loss against Edgar, coming off of a loss to Hack week 1, who I give a slight advantage to due to experience at SPL level, although Lacus will be hungry to prove that she deserves her place here. Sin and Victimisation impressed me with his week 1 team, and Psychic Mewtwo's team was not one I liked at all, so I'll give the edge here to SiV here as well.
 
#15
I decided I would give my own try at predictions since I've had a lot of thoughts while watching these games and wanna put my opinion out there.

Hack
vs Problems
While Problems has never lost to Hack, I think Hack's playing and teambuilding capabilities are one of the best if not THE best out there. Problems also showed last week that his playing hasn't gotten back up to the level where it used to be, and taking that loss might be a bit hard to handle, thus making his performance in this coming week a little more shaky. If Hack is unable to be predictable and play at his usual skill level, I think he'll most likely win this one.

Level 56 vs Astounded
Astounded has been going on a tear, recently winning the entirety of Ubers Seasonal and then beating SIV pretty handily with Aero+Forry core. His playing ability has been shown to be one of the best, and his teambuilding isn't anything to slouch on either. While L56 is also an extraordinary Ubers player and one of my favorites, his hobby of stealing teams rather than building them might hurt him a bit in this series as Astounded is one who needs a well crafted team to beat. Astounded looks like the favorite to win, but it will be a close game for sure.

Gunner Rohan
vs Lord Outrage
This is the match that I'm looking forward to the most. Both of these players are great and most definitely unpredictable, constantly bringing different styles of teams to each match they play. Despite popular opinion, I think both of these players are at a very similar skill level, and pretty evenly matched. Even though he lost, Trout showed in his series vs L56 that he can still play this game as one of the best, and will be a tough one to beat. However, Gunner also showed his proficiency in the tier in his series vs Lacus, pulling off possibly the only 6-0 we'll see in Ubers this SPL. I'm going to give Gunner the edge in this series due to the fact that his teams have been quite creative in the past, and that he's not afraid to bring something that's fairly risky if he thinks it'll work.

Lacus Clyne
vs Edgar
Edgar's been out of the game for a quite some time, while Lacus has been grinding and wants to really try and prove that she can play Ubers, deserving her SPL spot. I think that she's much more hungry for the win than Edgar is, and that alone makes me think she'll win the series.

SIV
vs Psychic Mewtwo
Sin actually had a very proper team, I'm pretty impressed.

Aside from a bunch of good luck, this win should probably not have happened for PsychicMewtwo if not for some large errors from Problems. The team PsychicMewtwo used was probably good for breaking 1300 on ladder, being notably weak to mence, darkceus, yveltal, any team with amuk etc
I think Hack's words are more well heard than mine, and shows why I think SIV is going to win this series.
 

Acacia

Tournament Banned
#16
The Ubers scene in SPL 8 has a lot of expectations to live up to, especially coming fresh off the exclusion from SPL 7, and even more so with the large number of featured debuts. While I am pleased that the general reception towards these matches is positive, I feel the rose-tinted glasses need to come off and certain things need to be said regarding the quality of some of these matches. Frankly speaking, it is rather absurd to be seeing misplays of this caliber on the main stage. These games are intended to capture some of the highest level of gameplay Ubers has to offer, and to say that some of these games have really missed the mark there would be quite the understatement. A player firstly represents himself or herself, and then his or her respective team, but do not forget that the player in question also represents Ubers as a whole. Some of the draft choices were already question marks, and week 1 certainly did not set a good precedent. Moving forward I can only hope certain players do not disregard their fundamentals.

I'd also like to add that there is far too much hype surrounding the already established players. There is not a single individual in this lineup that is infallible and people need to pay more attention to users like Outrage and Gunner, as I believe they will do far greater things than what "the greats" are expected to do in this tournament. Their game will be absolutely brilliant and honestly should be the highlight match to look forward to.
 

Aberforth

Californium is PoMMan now.
is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
#17
I mean I outright said that I considered that to be the next choice for a highlight game, and I dont really feel that it's fair to either of the other two games to not include them as highlight games as well.

Also as the managers I spoke with can attest, my money is on Gunner finishing no worse than top 3 this season. Please dont act like I'm not aware of how good these players are, choosing the hl matches was a matter of fine margins.

The rest of it, please discuss these misplays, that is the purpose of this thread, and often misplays can merely appear to be so when people haven't seen various aspects of the game. For example, earlier today Shrang was critical of the way Lord Outrage played his endgame against Level 56, and when it was pointed out that he was considering RP Groudon, the 'misplays' made total sense to him. Most of the games this week were good, with only one game I'm actually disappointed in, being Problems vs Psychic Mewtwo.
 
#18
a certain someone has asked me to elaborate on my approach at team preview vs astounded and how i excogitated my plays which seemed somewhat outlandish to him.so i figured what better place than here

at team preview i make a few assumptions
#1 the arceus form is ground.
looking at his team it is evident that if groudon gets in on red card it's as good as over so groundceus was a fair enough assumption for me
#2 pdon is some rp variant(sd or special) but needs to eschew speed for bulk b/c he desperately needs smth for focus xern which sets up on ekiller/luna/his own xern
#3 luna is either specs or cm(psych spam deo usually runs modest so aero comes in and pursuits coupled with the fact that he needs smth to break stall badly makes me certain he's specs/cm)

the biggest holes in my team are evidently jolly eq ekiller(my only hope vs this is judging the variant at team preview,playing dialga safe and twaving to take it out w/ lucario. which is pretty bad but i gambled here) and any variant of groundceus

turn 2 i close combat>iron tail b/c groundceus comes in and recovers off almost all the damage.cc enables me to take it down to from where grass knot from scarf xern+bp can take it out. even if luna comes in i'm p sure i can still pull from there.
turn 3 i go dialga>yveltal b/c i don't want to eat a specs ice beam(he has an unbroken shadow shield+it's more than conspicuous that i need lucario so he can feel free to beam and i don't even 2hko w/ luc)and i p much need yveltal
turn 17 i go scarf xern>groundceus b/c at that point I'm more than sure his pdon doesn't outspeed timid max scarf xern(as mentioned in assumption #2 at preview)

after that the game was p much over for me
aside from the misclick owing>dark pulse turn 1(cancel button is fucking golden) this is p much my take on the game

pce
 
#19
my thoughts on week 1:

Level 56 vs Lord Outrage

56 played well and executed his strategy and won. Nothing special here. Outrage blamed the loss on match up which is true because his team was rather shaky. It was rather surprising to see a team that resembled swiss cheese coming from a team with Outrage, dice, and ms. Outrage needs to step up in this department if he want to win the following weeks.

Astounded vs sin and victimization

Similar to 56, Astounded just played the game safely due to the match up. sav had an uphill battle from the beginning by facing the best uber player in the first week. However, sav played ok vs a counter team. Ferroaero is a rather strong strategy vs most of teams but completely flops vs mega sableye. I doubt that we will see other ferroaero in this spl.

Hack vs Edgar

Again, Hack just played safe and executed his strategy. Nothing noteworthy from Hack. What was disappointing is to see that edgar brought strategy that have been solved since XY. Similar to Outrage, Edgar needs to step up a lot in teambuilding.

Problems vs PsychicMewtwo

PsychicMewtwo played poorly and brought a poor team. This dude is equivalent to a 1.3k on ubers ladder. Problems played well but choked hard. Not sure what is going on with him. I think ego is probably a factor. Take win when you can!

Gunner Rohan vs Lacus Clyne

Same as other winners, Gunner played safe in this game and capitalized on Lacus' various errors. Gunner won largely due to Lacus' poor risk vs reward assessment on turn 43. Although to be fair, Gunner probably won even if xern moonblasted Zygarde. I thought Lacus' team was adequate but she definitely needs to step up with playing and game sense.

Overall, I thought week 1 was pretty boring but it was expected. The winners are just playing safe and winning as expected. The only aberration was problems and I hope that he will work on his flaws for upcoming weeks.
 
#20
Just to explain briefly what I did in the game. I'm the type of person who plans from preview. I knew that the match up was really difficult and I decided that I had to setup with geoxern asap and take the offensive as my only way to win the game. The plan was working perfectly until sash ray got in my way. And I can assure to everyone here I had the game if that ray wasnt sashed. The second i saw sash i tried my best to find a way to plan the rest of the game because the original plan was shattered. I almost timed out and couldn't find a plan.

I did try my best to overcome the bad machup but that sash ray just stopped me and made me realise i lost the game.

I have to say it was a really fun game tho and i really enjoyed.
 

hyw

Banned deucer.
#21
That one paragraph was more interesting than the other slabs of unfocused regurgitation imo. Shows u that trout plays this game like a grandmaster plays chess. The fact that he almost timed out is a testament to the amount of thinking dedicated towards formulating a coherent game plan before striking for the win and the valiant perseverence backing his logical deduction is a treat to all spectators; he may have lost w1 but imo trout finna bust a cap up in this bitch feels damn gud to be a gangster
 
#22
The Ubers scene in SPL 8 has a lot of expectations to live up to, especially coming fresh off the exclusion from SPL 7, and even more so with the large number of featured debuts. While I am pleased that the general reception towards these matches is positive, I feel the rose-tinted glasses need to come off and certain things need to be said regarding the quality of some of these matches. Frankly speaking, it is rather absurd to be seeing misplays of this caliber on the main stage. These games are intended to capture some of the highest level of gameplay Ubers has to offer, and to say that some of these games have really missed the mark there would be quite the understatement. A player firstly represents himself or herself, and then his or her respective team, but do not forget that the player in question also represents Ubers as a whole. Some of the draft choices were already question marks, and week 1 certainly did not set a good precedent. Moving forward I can only hope certain players do not disregard their fundamentals.

I'd also like to add that there is far too much hype surrounding the already established players. There is not a single individual in this lineup that is infallible and people need to pay more attention to users like Outrage and Gunner, as I believe they will do far greater things than what "the greats" are expected to do in this tournament. Their game will be absolutely brilliant and honestly should be the highlight match to look forward to.
I largely agree with your post. It is obviously the case that there are a few players that maybe doesn't deserve to be in etc.

You are also about right regarding the fact that misplays should probably not happen on this level, but it's also here you assume too much. Every player is an amateur and plays solely for their own enjoyment, there is no true professionality on this site. SPL is largely a social thing, and thus it can somewhat inhibit the standards of players in certain tiers: as it has always been.

I also think you become a bit too harsh by saying "some of these games really missed the mark", which I think is not true. One game was horrible and we all know which one, but the rest were pretty much fine, although sometimes a bit one-sided. Week 1 was certainly a good showing for the tier.
 
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Edgar

Ban Celesteela
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
#23
I decided I would give my own try at predictions since I've had a lot of thoughts while watching these games and wanna put my opinion out there.

Lacus Clyne vs Edgar
Edgar's been out of the game for a quite some time, while Lacus has been grinding and wants to really try and prove that she can play Ubers, deserving her SPL spot. I think that she's much more hungry for the win than Edgar is, and that alone makes me think she'll win the series.
You're completely right, I just don't care about winning or losing anymore.
 

Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
#24
I'm sure I wasn't the only one a little let down after Level 56 Astounded, although certainly not through the fault of either player, it just seemed that whenever a side effect could affect Astounded, it did and when you're playing against one of the best in the tier that's pretty much impossible to overcome. I liked Astounded's team, Alolan Muk plus something that appreciates Ghosts removed, in this case CM Arc Fairy(Gengar) and Lucario(Lunala, Gengar to an extent) is something I feel like we might see more of this SPL because it has the potential to be very potent. Level 56's team was also interesting with the surprise addition of Scarf Solgaleo, a mon that hasn't been received too favourably by the community in SM thus far. However it certainly had a key role to play in this game, keeping both of Astounded's setup options in check so maybe there's hope for it yet. I assume the Mence was also Defog given that it was running Body Slam and he had 2 SR weak mons, which again is a set many considered to not be that great so maybe some opinions will change on those 2 sets now, although in fairness the Mence didn't need to do much in the game outside of checking Lucario defensively and catching Arceus with a para.
Looking forward to more games today and tomorrow!
 
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Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
#25
I think catching the Arceus-Fairy with a para actually proved to be pretty useful in making Hurricane a legitimate option on Specs Yveltal. While normally Arceus-Fairy can just switch into it and Recover off the damage until the inevitable miss, the paralysis allows Yveltal to pressure it a lot better, and it worked out well here being able to use it against both Kyogre and Arceus-Fairy. While Astounded definitely lost most of the 30% rolls in this game, I think they still played pretty well and both players had some interesting sets that worked out well.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankubers-237281 - sin vs psychicmewtwo

This game was basically a textbook example of why stall absolutely needs a good SD Groudon check like Groundceus or Lugia. The choice of Mega Slowbro + Arceus-Dragon together was rather suboptimal as they mostly handle the same threats defensively and neither is adequate versus Swords Dance Groudon, making Groundceus a superior option here to help take on SD Groudon more effectively. It's a bit of a shame as sin would have had a rather straightforward win if he opted for Groundceus, since aside from Groudon he basically had the rest of psychicmewtwo's team on lockdown with Muk trapping his Deo-A/Gengar.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankubers-237225 - Edgar vs Lacus Clyne

Fairly interesting game here. Edgar's team is very similar to Gunner's from Week 1, but instead of Ho-Oh he opted for Xerneas to give clerical support and a stronger wincon than Zygarde with Geomancy. I'm not sure I fully agree with the decision since Arc-Dark already handles Yveltal well enough and the team becomes extremely weak to Lucario without Ho-Oh, but I suppose Edgar assumed Lacus wouldn't bring Lucario two weeks in a row and decided to risk it. Perhaps Lacus may have had a stronger chance to win by opting for Klefki instead of Magearna to give Spikes and increase the status support for the Hexing ghosts - Lacus's team seemed just a little too passive and Spikes would have been nice to help chip down Edgar's Pokemon in order to pave the way for a Gengar clean (which probably would have succeeded had Zygarde been worn down a little more).
 
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