SM UU Beta (Mewnium Z, Staraptor, Victini banned)

[Venoxio]

But I'm quite surprised that Diggersby got the boot to BL, while fellow Huge Power user Azumarill with a better typing did not? What's the deal here?

Diggersby had two things Azu really doesn't have: coverage and speed. Diggersby had a coverage option for almost anything that threatened it (ex: Wild Charge for bulky waters), and it had the speed to outspeed and kill said threats. While Azu is a very good mon it's generally stuck using water or fairy moves and can't really hit mons that resist those types (for example bulky poison mons like Tentacruel) and gets outsped and 2HKOed generally by those mons.

 

[HotFuzzBall]

<-- basically bewear with a choice band

Bewear @ Choice Band/Assault Vest
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Superpower
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

This thing punches holes in almost anything. From what i've seen, Bewear got better with the bans. Torn, Volcarona, AND mega bro leaving took away three mons that can shred this thing to pieces. Fluffy allows it to stand up to most physical attackers in the tier with ease. Looking at the ORAS OU mons that were dropped, it's one of the best checks to Bisharp out there, and Scizor can't really do much to it outside of Superpower. Return and Superpower are very spammable (Ghosts are a problem tho), and EQ and Ice Punch are good coverage options all around. CB and Assault Vest are both viable options on it because of well, more power, and somewhat patching up poor special bulk respectively.

(Also, for anyone wondering: Bewear has a minimum of 392 defense with Fluffy. Combined with 444 HP at max, you have an incredibly bulky mon for physical moves on your hands.)

On mobile currently so excuse any typos,

Anyways,who does EQ hit anyways? From my games most Mons always end up being hit just as hard with Return or Superpower. I run Shadow Claw instead to hit Ghost types.

Ill post more later on since I dislike texting

 

[Venoxio]

On mobile currently so excuse any typos,

Anyways,who does EQ hit anyways? From my games most Mons always end up being hit just as hard with Return or Superpower. I run Shadow Claw instead to hit Ghost types.

Ill post more later on since I dislike texting

It was mainly for Doublade cause I was seeing it a lot when I made the team. Shadow Claw sounds better now that I think about it tho, so thanks. :D

 

[bsu]

alright I'm tired of all these showdown noobers making fun of my triple steel core so Imma talk about it a bit

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite / Knock off / whatever
- Roost

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch / Bullet Punch / whatever

scizor bisharp was a pretty standard core in OU for a while, as they both function to weaken checks and then sweep for the other
lucario only adds to the core. this core loses to quagsire basically, but anything else is weakened and then swept by the others. it seems pretty straightforward and obvious but everybody be talking smack. for team support u can run offense, which would tbh make more sense, but i like to run a weird balance team with it to support the fire weakness and quagsire weakness. I find lucario rarely sets up sd and is more a wall breaker, so u could swap out sd for like vacuum wave to weaken cobalion better, which is also a pretty good check to these guys i just remembered lmao.
but ya everyones always like lol why u run 3 steel types thats so bad kek xD and then they get BOPPED

 

[Alan]

I know I'm a page or so behind, but the couple of people that are freaking out about serperior being banned next... it's stopped hard by goodra (AV or no) AV guzzlord, chandelure (although SR weak does kinda make that easier to workaround) and a handful of other pokemon. It's not THAT good. It's good but it's mortal.

CB Bewear is strong af. Wrecks a lot of things. I prefer using hammer arm over Superpower though because the speed drop is preferable to the atk/def drop. Especially late game if it comes down to it. I also like Cobaloin a lot, both as an offensive option and as a support mon.

edit: because I have to be awake for an overnight shift, I have nothing to do but play pokemon. breloom is pretty legit. persian-a is annoying af. av goodra is basically just as good as it's always been. scarftini also pretty much ruins things.

 

[Bouff]

decided to use some cool sets over the past few days so ill scrap em here.

Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Conversion
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam

theres a lot of options you can go with pz but this is a cool one ive been using as of late. big kicker of it for me is that youre immune to prankster and dont get punked by sucker punch, latter of which is a problem for ghost (which ive learned to be better than elec atm). nasty plot is cool because at +3 you almost always kill azu and keld. +1 you almost always kill bisharp as well, which is cool. i guess a problem with this set is that its more susceptible to scarfers than the others barring krook and hydrei but its pz so sweeping is not difficult under relatively common circumstances. getting walled by conk is annoying though, that thing is a little underrated to me at least..

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- Substitute

finally got around to using this thing. a little difficult to set up with at times, but when you manage to get your boosts up its a monster. nothing likes taking either of its stabs obviously and it can tank some priority decently since it resists mach and sucker. counters are relatively scarce aside from doublade and quag, but those can be dealt with i guess. i tried figy at first and it is basically ass and theres no reason to use it over sitrus.

Thundurus-Therian @ Electrium Z / Lum Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch / Grass Knot / Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Flying] / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Nasty Plot

most people have been using scarf and justifiably so due to its good speed tier, but this thing absolutely mauls some teams getting a nasty plot off isnt difficult since it forces so much out and thanks to its good stab coverage theres not a whole lot that can take it on - i put on electrium z here to dick blissey and raikou, but you can put lum or something else if you already have another z-mon on your team. the coverage is pretty flexible, i just use volt switch most of the time to bluff scarf and keep some midgame utility, but grass knot is cool too because fuck pert / quag. agility is cool in theory but honestly you wont get much opps to set it up with np, although setting up it alone is good for offense!

Keldeo @ Waterium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

Hogg gave me this idea back in like alpha i think...hopefully someone didnt post it before me (or if i even posted it lol i dont remember at this pt. shit i dont even remember if i posted any of these sets before...). z rain dance gives a +1 speed boost, and boosted hydro pumps in conjunction with that make it a real slap in the face for a lot of playstyles, unfortunately this set isnt as good as it was when i first used it since fat teams are actually viable now and people are starting to realize amoonguss is good, but in conjunction with spikes and something like serperior or thundurus, keldeo is a force to be reckoned with.

feel really awkward about being the only one voting ban on breloom lol. have yet to see it at all atm, maybe my opinion will change though thats a little doubtful.

also maybe its just me but holy fuck mega sharpedo is annoying to check. has everything it needs to wreck offense, getting a buff in psychic fangs added a ton to its viability imo.

 

[Kreme]

I know I'm a page or so behind, but the couple of people that are freaking out about serperior being banned next... it's stopped hard by goodra (AV or no) AV guzzlord, chandelure (although SR weak does kinda make that easier to workaround) and a handful of other pokemon. It's not THAT good. It's good but it's mortal.

CB Bewear is strong af. Wrecks a lot of things. I prefer using hammer arm over Superpower though because the speed drop is preferable to the atk/def drop. Especially late game if it comes down to it. I also like Cobaloin a lot, both as an offensive option and as a support mon.

edit: because I have to be awake for an overnight shift, I have nothing to do but play pokemon. breloom is pretty legit. persian-a is annoying af. av goodra is basically just as good as it's always been. scarftini also pretty much ruins things.

Regarding Serperior, while I'm not part of the council or anything like that, I do think you're underestimating it quite a bit. Yes, AV Goodra is a counter but out of the things you listed that's the only thing that does as such. Guzzlord is a very mediocre Pokemon in general and as a check it performs quite badly considering it's unable to beat Serperior 1v1 as +2 DPulse 2HKOes after Stealth Rock while Fire Blast with Modest Max SpA only has a 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. Chandelure is unable to check it decently unless it's a Scarf variant and is in no way a good stop. Not many Pokemon in the tier outspeed it unboosted at this point with the removal of Tornadus-T, and the Pokemon isn't too harmed by priority due to Giga Drain being able to pick off most priority users like Diggersby and gain almost as much as, if not more, HP than it lost in the first place. It's definitely something to at least look at in the current iteration of the metagame.

 

[CBU]

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Energy Ball
- Substitute
- Toxic
​

i don't think i have seen anybody complain about victini being UU since the alpha days. And I found it weird, seeing as during ORAS when it got suspected to drop in UU it was clearly broken. Then i started using it and it felt so underwhelming. Scarf didn't do enough damage and banded was awfully pursuit fodder or momentum vacuum cause u were forced out after a v-create drop. Also the constant presence of fat grounds and waters like hippo, pert, alomomola, slowbro, gastrodon and others made victini borderline useless. So i thought running a slightly ''different'' variant that would potentially help it either flat out kill or severely cripple its supposed counters. Enter Sub, Toxic, Blue Flare, Energy Ball Victini.
This set while it seems weird it has a ton of potential as it actually helped my ladder to no1. Apart from the unpredictability factor that would put the opponent in a hole if they switch out giving u a free sub, victini is actually strong enough to punch holes through mons that resist its hits. yes the difference between base 130 and 180 is a lot, but in my eyes its nothing compared to the feeling of seeing your opponent switch into their bulky water on the sub, catching a toxic if energy ball isn't enough to OHKO, or flat out dying to the energy ball. To get up a sub is fairly easy since the moment u send this thing in u threaten with a potential cb v-create. you will be able to get subs on mons like scizor, tsareena, dhelmise, breloom, amoonguss on the spore(if u burn blue flare, foul play doesnt break sub),cobalion,infernape opposing victinis at -1 stages and many more. One more thing that this set accomplishes is its ability to avoid getting sucker punch revenge killed by mons like bisharp, +2 decidueye, honchkrow etc, which is something that choice-locked victini simply cannot do.
Overall, the purpose of this set is to cripple and/or RKO OHKO out of nowhere fat physical walls, giving teammates the ability to have 1 less wall to break through on the road to sweeping an opposing team.

 

[bluecooljay14]

How is Decidueye in the current meta?

 

[CBU]

either fat defog trapper or sd 3 attacks decidium z

 

[Mikael]

from what most people talk about, decidueye is pretty mediocre. again, with the jack-of-all trades, master of none. funny how there are 3 mediocre grass types in UU with him, tsareena and dhelmise. maybe some of the bans helped these 3, but i dunno

 

[Venoxio]

from what most people talk about, decidueye is pretty mediocre. again, with the jack-of-all, master of none. funny how there are 3 mediocre grass types in UU with him, tsareena and dhelmise. maybe some of the bans helped these 3, but i dunno

IMO Dhelmise isn't really mediocre. It has a great offensive presence (base 131), its bulk isn't too bad either (AV is also a good set which helps this) and it can trap opponents in with a 3rd STAB attack. It also has Spin utility, but its better than Tsareena because of its other STABs. (I say STABs because it essentially has 3 due to steelworker).

On the topic of the bans, like most grass mons Torn and Volcarona leaving really helped it. Scolipede leaving also helped because if Scolipede switched in on Anchor Shot you're essentially giving it no choice but to set up speed boosts. It was a great check to Mega Bro if it didn't get burned (CB Power Whip OHKOs after Rocks and has a small chance of doing so even before rocks, and AV was a guaranteed 2HKO). It also checked Scarf Diggersby if it wasn't locked into Knock Off, but Knock Off destroyed it otherwise.

 

[Eyan]

IMO Dhelmise isn't really mediocre. It has a great offensive presence (base 131), its bulk isn't too bad either (AV is also a good set which helps this) and it can trap opponents in with a 3rd STAB attack. It also has Spin utility, but its better than Tsareena because of its other STABs. (I say STABs because it essentially has 3 due to steelworker).

On the topic of the bans, like most grass mons Torn and Volcarona leaving really helped it. Scolipede leaving also helped because if Scolipede switched in on Anchor Shot you're essentially giving it no choice but to set up speed boosts. It was a great check to Mega Bro if it didn't get burned (CB Power Whip OHKOs after Rocks and has a small chance of doing so even before rocks, and AV was a guaranteed 2HKO). It also checked Scarf Diggersby if it wasn't locked into Knock Off, but Knock Off destroyed it otherwise.

Here's a completely unbiased opinion from our wonderous TL Hikari:

 

[Saria]

It's slow, tons of exploitable weaknesses, gets completely ruined by Scald and the bulk is nothing to brag about

252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise: 105-125 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 55.5% chance to 3HKO

That means your Assault Vest Water-type resistance can switch once into Hydro Pump before being in the ko range, and that's one of the better switch ins it has! You can run Sdef and be even less of an offensive threat, because as fancy as triple STAB sound, Ghost + Grass + Steel coverage is pretty damn mediocre and makes you Bisharp bait. Tsaarena has more longevity and U-turn, and other spinners are much more reliable at actually spinning.

It's not even a decent Breloom check

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dhelmise: 117-141 (34 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Dhelmise Anchor Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 159-187 (60.9 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If the Breloom gets 4 hits once it wins. If the Breloom is unlucky, Dhelmise survives with 10%~ and doesn't spin, or spin and dies

 

[Moutemoute]

Am I the only one who think that since the ban of Volcarona and Tornadus-Therian Serperior is litteraly in fire ?!
You really need to focus on this threat when you're building. The Green Snake has a really good Speedtier and Contrary + Leaf Storm is a pain to deal with because regular check to grass get rekt by Hidden Power Fire or Dragon Pulse.
Or maybe I'm just a newbie.. :(

 

[guan123]

Am I the only one who think that since the ban of Volcarona and Tornadus-Therian Serperior is litteraly in fire ?!
You really need to focus on this threat when you're building. The Green Snake has a really good Speedtier and Contrary + Leaf Storm is a pain to deal with because regular check to grass get rekt by Hidden Power Fire or Dragon Pulse.
Or maybe I'm just a newbie.. :(

Serperior is great now. It probably will get the banhammer before February starts due to the lack of good checks. Speaking of other grass types, the 3 mediocre grasses referenced by mikael (tsareena, decidueye, dhelmise), Tsareena will probably drop as long as there are better rapid spinners (starmie, forretress, tentacruel, etc.) I can see decidueye dropping due to better defoggers (jack of all trades, master of none).

 

[Moutemoute]

Tsareena is good cuz she can handle Breloom easily. For sure it's not the best spinner in the tier but as long as breeloom will be used in UU, Tsareena probably will be used too.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

So much hate for the 3 Grass types mentioned eh?

 

[guan123]

So much hate for the 3 Grass types mentioned eh?

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe these 3 grasses have niches besides hazard removal (decidueye and dhelmise are trappers, IDK what tsareena's other niche is). But is spirit shackle/anchor shot a large enough niche to justify dhelmise and decidueye being UU?

 

[CBU]

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe these 3 grasses have niches besides hazard removal (decidueye and dhelmise are trappers, IDK what tsareena's other niche is). But is spirit shackle/anchor shot a large enough niche to justify dhelmise and decidueye being UU?

Imo dhelmise is pure garbage for reasons mentioned in an above post. Decidueye has extremely big offensive potential. I have found the sd 3 attack z-move set to be a great cleaner seeing as very few mons resist its double stab, coupled with its access to priority is sucker punch. Tsareena's niches are spin, momentum with u-turn and complete walling of slow setup sweepers like bisharp, azu, loom and even decidueye that heavily rely on their priority moves to clean. Tsareena and decidueye will prob end up in ru but they definately can be effective in uu.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe these 3 grasses have niches besides hazard removal (decidueye and dhelmise are trappers, IDK what tsareena's other niche is). But is spirit shackle/anchor shot a large enough niche to justify dhelmise and decidueye being UU?

It's all about usage. People keep forgetting about that. And Tsareena's niche is to stop priority attackers and Taunt users, as well as you know, remove hazards and pivot

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Imo dhelmise is pure garbage for reasons mentioned in an above post. Decidueye has extremely big offensive potential. I have found the sd 3 attack z-move set to be a great cleaner seeing as very few mons resist its double stab, coupled with its access to priority is sucker punch. Tsareena's niches are spin, momentum with u-turn and complete walling of slow setup sweepers like bisharp, azu, loom and even decidueye that heavily rely on their priority moves to clean. Tsareena and decidueye will prob end up in ru but they definately can be effective in uu.

Dhelmise isn't garbage. It's so strong and decently bulky

 

[Found True Love]

Dhelmise isn't complete garbage but it is very bad. It has a few things going for it. It's arguably the best spin blocker in the tier since the Prankster nerf makes Sabelye an easy switch in for too many big threats & Gengar is too frail to reliably spin block anything. That's a pretty small niche though since only a small portion of teams really *need* spinblocking and fewer still are going to need it so bad that Dhelmise would be preferable over generally better mons like Gengar, Sableye, ect. It's a decently reliable spinner I suppose. AV (the only half-decent set IMO) can mess with certain popular special attackers since while Ghost is a really bad defensive typing it's decent offensively for slamming special attackers like Alakazam and Gengar (special/mixed Victini too, I suppose, but if you actually attempt to check Victini with Dhelmise you're truly wild.)

These minor positives don't really make up for its many negatives though (horrendous defensive typing, barren movepool, ect.)

 

[Meru]

I think an even better spinblocker than Dhelmise is something that's been in the tier longer than any of these newcomers, just gone unnoticed with a buff that lets it fit into the meta really well

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

The addition of Will-O-Wisp to Froslass's movepool lets its Bolt Beam coverage really shine. It can now burn Steel-types and certain Water-types like Swampert and Empoleon that can shrug off both of Froslass's attacks. I used Ice Beam instead of the more traditional Icy Wind since I didn't want to give Serperior Contrary boosts. Focus Sash in tandem with burns can check almost any non-Fire type physical threat in the tier and it provides chip damage on top of super fast Spikes for a wide range of offensive threats in the tier. Ice STAB and Ice-type coverage in general has a lot of perks in this meta with Grass-types like Serperior and Tsareena and quad-weak Ground-types like Gliscor and Zygarde 10% while its Ghost-typing gives it immunity to priority like Breloom's Mach Punch and Entei's Extreme Speed. This set struggles more with Fire-types so make sure you cover that but there's plenty of options to do so in this meta.

 

[Korago]

I think an even better spinblocker than Dhelmise is something that's been in the tier longer than any of these newcomers, just gone unnoticed with a buff that lets it fit into the meta really well

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

The addition of Will-O-Wisp to Froslass's movepool lets its Bolt Beam coverage really shine. It can now burn Steel-types and certain Water-types like Swampert and Empoleon that can shrug off both of Froslass's attacks. I used Ice Beam instead of the more traditional Icy Wind since I didn't want to give Serperior Contrary boosts. Focus Sash in tandem with burns can check almost any non-Fire type physical threat in the tier and it provides chip damage on top of super fast Spikes for a wide range of offensive threats in the tier. Ice STAB and Ice-type coverage in general has a lot of perks in this meta with Grass-types like Serperior and Tsareena and quad-weak Ground-types like Gliscor and Zygarde 10% while its Ghost-typing gives it immunity to priority like Breloom's Mach Punch and Entei's Extreme Speed. This set struggles more with Fire-types so make sure you cover that but there's plenty of options to do so in this meta.

I feel like not giving Frosslass destiny bond is a waste as it gives it a lot of utility and makes attempting to knock it out after its sash has been broken risky for most of the tier as base 110 speed is quite fast, additionally it also enables it to revenge kill or force switches vs non scarf mons