Small Subjective Changes - Controversial Edits

Oglemi

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Post small subjective changes in this thread. This thread is for subjective changes only. If you find an error that is syntactical, grammatical, typographical, orthographical, or technical please use the Small Changes thread

Subjective changes includes:
  • Removing excess move options from a move set.
  • Small additions to a move set.
  • A change in an EV Spread.
  • Any small additions or revisions to Other Options or Counters.
  • Any small change that is subjective in nature, but is too trivial to go in a peer edit.

Notice: To those with SCMS access, you do not need to post here. Simply make the change yourself directly and provide your reasoning in the "Edit Reason" box. If you make a change suggested by another user on the SCMS, please list your reasoning as "Small Changes Thread" so one of us can come and delete the appropriate posts.

Couple each post with a link to the relevant analysis or article you are requesting a change in. Most importantly, if you are suggesting something - back it up with reasoning. It doesn't help us to know that you think Farfetch'd should run 220 HP EVs; what helps us is knowing why you think Farfetch'd should run 220 HP EVs.
 
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MattL

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http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/greninja/

There are no mentions about how the opponent does not know whether it's Protean or Ash when it's first sent out and how this can be taken advantage of. Whether this should be in Overview or Usage tips is up to discretion, but it's important to mention that the threat of it being Ash-Greninja and letting it transform makes the opponent's play slightly more predictable.

Also, Ash-Greninja must be male, so Protean Greninja should always be male since an observant player could notice that a Greninja is female and therefore Protean. This can probably be added in the Overview, and it should be added because revealing Greninja's ability before it attacks decreases its effectiveness.
 
http://www.smogon.com/ingame/guides/ev_manual
Add this to the Platinum EV training locations.
HP: Shellos and Gastrodon by surfing at Route 205 south, Idol Grace in Pokemon centers (Clefairy)
Physical Attack: Gyarados and Seaking by super rod at Twinleaf Town, Eterna City, and Celestic Town, Guitarist Arturo in Pokemon centers (Kricketune)
Special Attack: Golduck and Psyduck by surfing at Resort Area, Interviewers Roxi and Olie at Pokemon centers (Gardevoir and Magnezone)
Special Defense: Tentacruel and Mantyke by surfing at Route 223
Speed: Poke Kid Ariel at Pokemon centers (Pikachu and Raichu)
Route 224 should also be removed from the Platinum table because Tentacruel have only a 30% encounter chance there in Platinum.
http://www.smogon.com/ingame/guides/emerald_ev_manual
Add this to the EV training locations.
HP: Marill by surfing at Petalburg City, Wailmer by super rod at Dewford Town or Slateport City, Barboach and Whiscash by super rod at Meteor Falls or Victory Road
Physical Attack: Carvanha and Sharpedo by super rod at Route 118
Speed: Magikarp by any rod on Route 104, Zubat by walking in Altering Cave, Zubat and Golbat by walking in Seafloor Cavern, Smeargle by walking in cave at Artisan Cave, Golbat by surfing at Victory Road B2F
http://www.smogon.com/ingame/misc/evs_ivs
Add this to the RSE EV training locations.
HP: Ditto, Whismur, Loudred by walking at Desert Underpass, Barboach and Whiscash by super rod at Meteor Falls 1F2R
Physical Attack: Carvanha and Sharpedo by super rod at Route 118
Physical defense: Geodude, Graveler, Torkoal at Magma Hideout (Emerald only)
Speed: Golbat by surfing at Victory Road

Can you please alert me if you delete this post?
 
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Karxrida

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I know I'm wasting my time debating which Pokemon are better for playthroughs, but for some reason it bothers me to see stuff I think is wrong.
http://www.smogon.com/ingame/misc/dpp_ingametiers
http://www.smogon.com/ingame/misc/dpp_plat_ingametiers
In both of them, I want Sneasel to move up to middle tier. Weavile has very good offensive stats, and can get STAB night slash by level up and STAB ice punch by move tutor (though maybe not DP). Froslass is in the middle tier, and I see no reason why Weavile is worse than Froslass.
I want Tropius to be moved to middle tier in the Platinum page simply because it's such a good HM slave. For some reason, the page says it's "Available too late" despite the fact that you only need three gym badges to get it. Additionally, it was high tier on the RSE tiers, and I don't think it's different in Platinum. If someone does make this change, he/she should also change Budew's description, as it currently says, "outside of Turtwig, it is the best grass-type".
http://www.smogon.com/ingame/misc/adv_rse_ingametiers
I want Zigzagoon and Wingull moved to middle tier. Their stats prevent them from being very useful. Zigzagoon is further hindered by the fact that it only has one STAB type, and Wingull is by the fact that it doesn't get any good flying STAB attacks.
This probably needs a dedicated discussion in Orange Islands, as that's where in-game tier stuff is ironed out and the changes you are requesting are significant. Contact one of the OI mods and ask if you can start a thread.

(I wanted to change RSE stuff too. For example, Feebas is way too much of a pain to get and evolve, and needs to drop a tier.)
 
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Might be late but w/e.
Re: special ball list.

HG/SS Safari Zone is missing Beldum (Forest), and Metang (Mountain).
Apricorn ball Bronzor should be moved from "Normal" to "Radio Sound".
"Normal" list for Apricorn balls is missing Eevee (SM only).
"Normal" list for Apricorn balls shouldn't list Gible and Mareanie (SOS only)
"Normal" list for Apricorn balls lists Turtonator twice.
"Normal" list for Apricorn balls lists Kangaskhan, Psyduck, and Skarmory despite them being available in both HG/SS and S/M. (I don't see why it only lists mons exclusive to a single generation but might as well be consistent one way or the other)
Dream World is missing Gothorita (Event).
"Normal" list for Beast balls should not list Aerodactyl (unobtainable) or Garchomp (SOS only).

And a slightly bigger change:
Form Differences
With the release of Generation VI and numerous events, all breedable Pokémon can now legally have their hidden abilities. This does not, however, mean that all Pokémon with form differences can be bred in any regular Ball and have their hidden ability.

In Generation VI, seasons were removed, but the form differences of Deerling and Sawsbuck were preserved through breeding. In Generation V, Deerling is able to be obtained with its hidden ability only as a gift Pokémon in a Poké Ball. Therefore, the Summer, Autumn, and Winter forms can only be in a normal Poké Ball if they have their hidden ability. Only the Spring form can have its hidden ability and be in a different type of regular Poké Ball because it is able to be caught in Friend Safaris and as a hidden Pokémon via the DexNav.

The Flabébé and Pumpkaboo families are similar. Flabébé can only have its hidden ability, and therefore be bred in different Balls, if it is of the Blue, Red, or Yellow Flower form. Pumpkaboo can only have its hidden ability and be in a different Ball if it is Average Sized. Both of these Pokémon are only able to be caught with their respective hidden abilities in Friend Safaris.
First paragraph needs to be rewritten for 7th gen, and it would be nice if someone could confirm but Deerling forms and Super Size Pumpkaboo should no longer have restrictions on HA+Special ball in 7th gen (Flabebe still does though).
 
https://www.smogon.com/ingame/guides/adv_tips
I saw a bunch of problems with this.
Why is Smeargle mentioned in the RS section if it's unobtainable in RS?
Why is Mirage Island the only subsection that appears in both the RS section and E section when a lot of other subsections (such as the one about the Berry Master's wife) are applicable to both RS and E?
Why are the repeat ball and timer ball subsection, effort ribbon subsection, amulet coin subsection, and Kecleon subsection only in the E section when they're also applicable to RS?
The Smeargle subsection should probably mention that it's found in Artisan Cave and can learn every HM move.
The synchronize and flame body subsection is formatted kind of weirdly. Also, it says Emerald introduced those abilities, which isn't true. I'd suggest changing it to something like this.
The Synchronize, Flame Body, and Magma Armor Abilities
Unlike most others, these two abilities were given an outside of battle effect in Emerald. If you're breeding or capturing specific-natured Pokémon, then these abilities will be handy.
  • Synchronize: If a Pokémon with this ability is leading your party, then there is a 50% chance that any Pokémon you encounter will have the same nature as your Pokémon. It should be noted that in Emerald, Synchronize will not work on stationary legendaries, such as Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza.
  • Flame Body and Magma Armor: Having a Pokémon with this ability in your team will reduce the number of steps you need to walk in order for an Egg to hatch by roughly one-half.
Here is a list of Pokémon with Synchronize, Flame Body, or Magma Armor abilities:

Synchronize Pokemon
Abra / Kadabra / Alakazam
Mew
Natu / Xatu
Espeon / Umbreon
Ralts / Kirlia / Gardevoir

Flame Body Pokémon
Magmar / Magby
Slugma / Magcargo

Magma Armor Pokémon
Slugma / Magcargo
Camerupt

https://www.smogon.com/ingame/guides/dpp_tips
I think all mentions of Drifblim should be removed from the HM slaves section, and instead, that section should recommend Pelipper for DP and Tropius for Pt, both of which outclass Drifblim as HM slaves. Tropius can learn all of Drifblim's HM moves plus rock smash and strength, and Pelipper's surf is arguably more useful than Drifblim's cut. Drifblim also requires 6 (DP) 13 (Pt) levels before it can evolve and learn fly, while Tropius doesn't evolve at all, and Wingull can learn fly without evolving and only requires 1 level to evolve and learn surf. The article says Drifblim is the best fly user that players can get early on, but I don't understand how that's relevant. Fly isn't usable until after beating Maylene, no matter which Pokemon is using it, so getting a fly user earlier doesn't really let the player use fly earlier. Also, the section should probably mention that Smeargle is the best post-game HM slave.

Also can you alert me if you delete this post?
 

david stone

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Life Orb's description is inadequate. The text for all generations reads

Holder's attacks do 1.3x damage, and it loses 1/10 its max HP after the attack.
This should include whether the user loses HP if they hit a Substitute or if they hit a Pokemon but do 0 damage.
 

Bughouse

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Life Orb's description is inadequate. The text for all generations reads



This should include whether the user loses HP if they hit a Substitute or if they hit a Pokemon but do 0 damage.
I don’t think the doing 0 damage is relevant enough as a mechanic. The dex is not a fully comprehensive encyclopedia.

But sure I’ll add that LO has no recoil on sub hits in DPP.

also including magic guard/sheer force mentions since that's very relevant.

Not going to add in other esoteric mechanics like gaining a life orb via thief/covet/magician/etc causing you to take its damage or whether it boosts future sight, etc.
 
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david stone

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The dex used to be such a source of information, but it does look like more in-depth information was removed at some point. If I cannot use the Smogon dex to get complete information, is there somewhere else that I can?
 

The Dutch Plumberjack

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Marty deals with item / move descriptions and idk if he has this thread on watch or just the objective changes one, I'll let him be the judge of what is worthwhile to include.

but yes ideally we'd like as much relevant information as possible to be included in the longdescs at least
 

Marty

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The dex used to be such a source of information, but it does look like more in-depth information was removed at some point. If I cannot use the Smogon dex to get complete information, is there somewhere else that I can?
I believe the Smogon Dex has never been more accurate than it is today. I spent a good 2 months researching basically every move in every gen last year to complete an overhaul of long move descriptions. This was finished and ported from PS to the Smogdex around September, and then I started on Abilities soon after and got to Forewarn before burning myself out. Theoretically it should take less effort to go through all of them since there are far fewer Abilities than moves and they exist in even fewer gens, but it's been slow going and I'm only one person.

Anyway, for this situation I think a 0-damage case is only relevant to mention if it's different from any other amount of damage, which is when I'd use phrases like "if the target lost HP, [such and such happens]", like recoil moves, for example. I agree that the interaction with substitutes is worth mentioning for Gen 4, and it'll definitely be part of my overhaul whenever I get to items (which might take all year at this rate!).
 

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