Smogon Champions League I - Week 5

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emma

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Participation stayed mostly constant from 58 to 54 predictors this week! Remember, you can win $50 + Discord Nitro just from bolding names in our SCL Discussion Thread! Here are my favorite prediction posts: 1, 2, 3, 4.

Nails (96%) vs. YoBuddy (4%)
Paraplegic (74%) vs. Actuarily (26%)
Z Strats (96%) vs. Frania (4%)
Qwello Lee (65%) vs. Spurrific (35%)
stax (69%) vs. Mishimono (31%)
Nails522YoBuddy
Paraplegic4014Actuarily
Z Strats522Frania
Qwello Lee3519Spurrific
stax3717Mishimono

PlayerWeek 1Week 2Week 3Week 4Week 5
Z Strats33%77%67%88%96%
Nails85%76%93%93%96%
Qwello Lee67%45%53%88%65%
Mishimono63%55%33%79%31%
Paraplegic26%46%33%12%74%
Spurrific65%23%67%7%35%
stax74%24%47%69%69%
Frania15%54%19%21%4%
Memoric / YoBuddy37%66%81%12%4%
Actuarily / zeefable35%34%7%31%26%
 

Adaam

إسمي جف
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis the 8th Grand Slam Winner
Moderator
Participation stayed mostly constant from 58 to 54 predictors this week! Remember, you can win $50 + Discord Nitro just from bolding names in our SCL Discussion Thread! Here are my favorite prediction posts: 1, 2, 3, 4.

Nails (96%) vs. YoBuddy (4%)
Paraplegic (74%) vs. Actuarily (26%)
Z Strats (96%) vs. Frania (4%)
Qwello Lee (65%) vs. Spurrific (35%)
stax (69%) vs. Mishimono (31%)
Nails522YoBuddy
Paraplegic4014Actuarily
Z Strats522Frania
Qwello Lee3519Spurrific
stax3717Mishimono

PlayerWeek 1Week 2Week 3Week 4Week 5
Z Strats33%77%67%88%96%
Nails85%76%93%93%96%
Qwello Lee67%45%53%88%65%
Mishimono63%55%33%79%31%
Paraplegic26%46%33%12%74%
Spurrific65%23%67%7%35%
stax74%24%47%69%69%
Frania15%54%19%21%4%
Memoric / YoBuddy37%66%81%12%4%
Actuarily / zeefable35%34%7%31%26%
Why waste time making predicts every week for nitro when I can get it for free from one of my friends who bought 2 discord nitros by accident and doesn't need both
 
>the tds decided for a recreate, implying that there was a real reason for it given what santu wrote in the chat and that he had no reason to say it if it wasnt true. or maybe he was concern trolling
>the tds failed in recreating the game properly
>only santu pays the failure of the tds in recreating the game, since he is the one that lost by timer. so the tds suddenly changed idea and decided that santu needed to provide proofs about the glitch to minimize the mistake they made. of course mistakes happen but i don't see why you pretend that it's santu's fault because he doesn't have proofs. he didn't have proofs neither when you decided for the recreate. a rematch and an apology to both players would have been way more honest.

Edit: im not gonna comment on March Fires because i think that situation is way more complicated, but if there was a glitch once it's reasonable to believe that it could happen a second time.
 

fran17

I COULD BE BANNED!
Pais gets accused of being a pedo and nothing gets done about the mod who claimed and banned........niko gets banned for concern trolling (for no reason at all) and has to jump the SCL....... the ou forum leader or whatever finch is now who tries to shittalk (why do you do it in the first place) tricking everytime he has the possibility....this loss given to santu where he has no fault....there might be some agenda againist italy........
9 AGOSTO 2020 QUANNO VE PASSA
 
BRO IT’S PROOF NOT PROOFS
After reading this, I want you to go to your router and unplug it. Then take your keyboard, take out all the keys, and dump it in the trash. And finally take your monitor, turn it off and pack it away in a box. Every time you type you just make things worse cause not only do you look beyond cringe, now my days ruined cause I had to read something you typed out and now that’s 2 perfectly good days ruined for no reason.
 

Kink

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Re: Sagiri vs Santu

During Santu and Sagiri's game yesterday, Santu timed out. Prior to running out of time and afterwards, Santu claimed that the simulator was not registering when they selected a move, and that their attempts to fix the issue by reloading the battle did not fix it either time they tried.

The host team agreed to a recreation under the assumption of a simulator glitch, as Santu's behavior in the battle log lined up with their claims, it was both early in the battle and Santu had a fair amount of time remaining when they claimed to be experiencing issues, Santu stated their issues with the simulator accepting their moves in battle chat before timing out, this is an infrequently reported but not unprecedented glitch, and a quick recreation would not provide a significant advantage to either player.

I personally failed to perform the recreation correctly and put Santu and Sagiri in the wrong playing positions, resulting in a team leak. The responsibility for this failure is on me alone, not on any actions made by Santu, Sagiri, or any fault of how recreations are done. Due to this, a fair recreation was no longer possible.

At this point, alternative options such as forcing a rematch with different teams require a higher threshold of proof that the simulator was glitching. As Santu was unable to provide conclusive evidence that they were experiencing a true simulator glitch, the host team is forced to rule as though it did not actually occur. Since Santu's normal timer ran out, Sagiri is given the win by timer.
Merritt, surely this is a joke.

You realize a new precedent is now set where a TD can, by their own manipulation, change the outcome of a match based on their error? Who's to say you didn't do this on purpose? This is absolutely serious - it is your role and duty to ensure that fairness takes place after deciding a recreate exists. You unequivocally, negligently, and irreducibly failed in this role.

"The responsibility for this failure is on me alone, not on any actions made by Santu, Sagiri, or any fault of how recreations are done. Due to this, a fair recreation was no longer possible."

Your failure at upholding your responsibility as a Tournament Director has now resulted in the integrity of the tournament being compromised. All outcomes that could have resulted due to a recreation are now nullified due to your negligent actions.

If, truly, the entire TD team thought this was the best outcomes based on the failure a member of said team, then I call into question the entire decision-making process of the TD team, I call into question the integrity of this tour based on this decision-making process, I call into question our policy decisions after a decision was already made to recreate and a TD fails to ensure this happens due to negligible actions.

Based on the fact that fairness is expected and demanded after a recreate decision was reached, my team and I have no reason to believe you didn't change the teams on purpose in order to alter the outcome. Furthermore, my team and I have no reason to wonder if this won't happen again based on the terrible decision reached by the TD team.

Notwithstanding the players themselves agreed to a rematch. This is truly, truly, the worst decision I have ever seen and it's simply all the more amusing that I happen to be the manager that gets to tackle this issue, and the displayed incompetence, head on. I expect to be contacted immediately by the entire TD team for a conversation that includes myself, Evigaro and the opposing managers in order to reach a fair and justified answer to this problem. Any other course of actions simply cements the undue bias shown in this process.

[11:11 AM] Kink: this is fundamentally unacceptable
[11:12 AM] Kink: this backpeddling is unacceptable
[11:12 AM] Kink: the precedent you are setting is atrocious
[11:12 AM] Kink: any TD can backpeddle and manipulate outcomes
[11:12 AM] Kink: AS HAS ALREADY OCCURRED
[11:13 AM] Kink: the lack of foresight in this decision is not only mind-boggling, but my team has no reason to participate in this tour anymore
[11:13 AM] Vileman: the ruling on timeouts is very clear so idk what your deal is on that
[11:13 AM] Vileman: the initial decision was the incorrect one sadly
[11:13 AM] Vileman: and the communication has not been ideal
[11:13 AM] Kink: so hold on
[11:13 AM] Vileman: and i apologize for that
[11:13 AM] Kink: in a world where merritt gave the right teams
[11:13 AM] Kink: and the game was completed
[11:13 AM] Kink: you'd cancel the outcome of the game?
[11:13 AM] Kink: that's what you're saying, right?
[11:14 AM] Vileman: probably not, what would have (probably) happened was (and this is just theory):
[11:14 AM] Kink: I don't need theory, I need to know what the TD's would have done
[11:14 AM] Vileman: recreation happens, game counts, disclaimer on how this was misshandled
[11:14 AM] Vileman: and should not set precedent
[11:15 AM] Vileman: and as im saying, thats what i imagine would happen
[11:15 AM] Kink: you realize that any answer other than "yes, absolutely" gives rise to more scrutiny
[11:15 AM] Kink: man I hate to say this, and this is far from personal because I like you, I don't think you or your team are qualified to be TDs
[11:16 AM] Vileman: im getting thrown under the bus for how the other tds misshandled this so i won't take this kind of stuff from you tbh
[11:16 AM] Kink: if a recreate game would've not been cancelled, then the TD's have, without any due process, chagned the outcome of a tour
[11:16 AM] Kink: truly it's not my problem how you take it. this is a poor decision and I'm sharing these logs.
[11:17 AM] Vileman: as i said, i do not know what would have happened
[11:17 AM] Vileman: as i do not make these decisions by myself
[11:17 AM] Vileman: if youre just making this to take more stuff out of context/attack me i dont think i can keep this conversation going as it won't lead to anything
[11:17 AM] Kink: then you need to go talk to your team and make sure you craft the right answer - the decision shared by merritt has tons of logistical loopholes
[11:17 AM] Kink: and it does not address the points you've made
[11:17 AM] Kink: so you need to go to your team, and talk to them, and come up with a resolute answer
[11:17 AM] Vileman: it does, ive been busy, as shockingly i have a life
[11:17 AM] Kink: because as of right now, a member of the TD team is saying the game would've counted
[11:18 AM] Kink: and I have you quoted on that
[11:18 AM] Vileman: right now i have family lunch waiting so hopefully after that i can handle it
[11:18 AM] Vileman: i didnt say with certainty thats what would happen
[11:18 AM] Vileman: god
[11:18 AM] Kink: it doesn't matter if you said it with certainty or not

[11:18 AM] Kink: as of right now, that's the closest thing to an official statement from the whole team
[11:19 AM] Vileman: im just imaging what maybe coulda happened, if i was around to make the decisions it would not have counted no
[11:19 AM] Vilman: so what do you want lol
[11:19 AM] Vileman: ill speak with the team, hopefully a better post comes out of all this
[11:19 AM] Vileman: and we can speak with you and evigaro to figure out the best outcome/decision
[11:19 AM] Kink: I really think that's best
[11:19 AM] Vileman: i am open to that but for now this just seems like an excuse to keep attacking me
[11:19 AM] Kink: see it's sheer irony that this situation falls onto me
[11:19 AM] Vileman: which i do not appreciate
[11:20 AM] Kink: if you genuinely see this as an attack on YOU in any way, and not on your positionhood, then perhaps I'll try a little harder at softening my tone
[11:20 AM] Kink: I've been here as long as the next guy, I've seen every decision under the sun
[11:20 AM] Vileman: for now i have family lunch waiting as its my sis birthday
[11:20 AM] Kink: I'm telling you, this one SUCKS
[11:20 AM] Kink: happy family time
[11:20 AM] Vileman: ill just say
[11:20 AM] Vileman: im sorry for all this situation
[11:21 AM] Vileman: hopefully we can get to an agreement on the final decision/communication
[11:21 AM] Kink: on a personal level I appreciate the sorry, on a smogon level it means nothing to me
[11:21 AM] Kink: thank you

 
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once again the people complaining about it (who also happen to have more questionable thinking skills than user starry blanket) lead me to believe the decision made was right. not very flawlessly executed from merritt though so he will rise a rank in the dumb annoying users vr. peace all ^^ '.
 
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let me lay it out for those confused

- santu timed out

- timing out (not dc’ing) as is objectively defined by the rules = loss

- santu loses regardless of recreate

- recreate should have never been done

- recreate was done poorly

- this doesn’t change anything it just looks stupid

- tds did not endorse the recreate i think it was just rogue hosts

- apology should be issued to santu / his team for getting his hopes up, not for the loss
 

Kink

it's a thug life ¨̮
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let me lay it out for those confused

- santu timed out

- timing out (not dc’ing) as is objectively defined by the rules = loss

- santu loses regardless of recreate

- recreate should have never been done

- recreate was done poorly

- this doesn’t change anything it just looks stupid

- tds did not endorse the recreate i think it was just rogue hosts

- apology should be issued to santu / his team for getting his hopes up, not for the loss
You're generating more confusion. The decision for the recreate WAS reached and the TD's were to IMPLEMENT the teams and the game was going to be done and it would've counted. Any argumentation for rogue hosting falls flat when it's a TD that's hosting.
 
You're generating more confusion. The decision for the recreate WAS reached and the TD's were to IMPLEMENT the teams and the game was going to be done and it would've counted.
and that would’ve been an improper decision. the recreate never should’ve counted in the first place if the tds understood their own rules. unfortunately they don’t though
 

Kink

it's a thug life ¨̮
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and that would’ve been an improper decision. the recreate never should’ve counted in the first place if the tds understood their own rules. unfortunately they don’t though
Looks like we've hit the crux of the problem - TD's not understanding their own rules leads to outright manipulation of (one of) the most prestigious tours on Smogon. I like all of you TD's personally - I understand this is a thankless job, but today no one need thank you.
 
You're generating more confusion. The decision for the recreate WAS reached and the TD's were to IMPLEMENT the teams and the game was going to be done and it would've counted. Any argumentation for rogue hosting falls flat when it's a TD that's hosting.
Yeah lol this is the only point that matters now.
If Merritt didn't fail to recreate the game now we would have a winner decided by the actual game and nobody would protest. You could argue that the decision was wrong (I don't think so, the decision was pursuing the specific result of having the game played and santu not punished by something that wasn't his fault) but it doesn't matter as long as it was done.
Also rules have always been flexible to adapt to new or particular scenarios like this one and if you check the list of the precedent decisions in the rules you can see that this happens frequently.
 
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