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Smogon Premier League VI - Commencement
- Thread starter jake
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Satisfied?
im not very satisfied :(
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In other words BINGO
*badabingo
I'll just leave this here.
yep, agree with Mr.E. you could also argue that the optimal play was to actually kill zapdos as fast as possible since tiba was wasting skarmory rest PP on the zapdos struggles and this extra PP may have been useful when attempting to stall out the 999 lax with reflect + skarm
I can understand a decision had to be made, and I can see how this decision was reached, even if there were some logical inaccuracies in the decision post. what I can't stand are the Alpha Ruiners acting like what they did wasn't a pretty gay move. you guys had a chance to show some good sportsmanship and kill zapdos, but instead you decided to stall for a PO glitch in the hopes of forcing a tie.
hope this doesn't get swept under the rug and is not used as precedent in future situations. don't really care how this post is received. I just (oddly) have some strong opinions about this issue. sucks to be a raider
I can understand a decision had to be made, and I can see how this decision was reached, even if there were some logical inaccuracies in the decision post. what I can't stand are the Alpha Ruiners acting like what they did wasn't a pretty gay move. you guys had a chance to show some good sportsmanship and kill zapdos, but instead you decided to stall for a PO glitch in the hopes of forcing a tie.
hope this doesn't get swept under the rug and is not used as precedent in future situations. don't really care how this post is received. I just (oddly) have some strong opinions about this issue. sucks to be a raider
I can't see how the decision was reached. (Unless we're talking $$$ or favors...) How do you justify turning probably at least a 70/30 advantage in Bed's favor (not running the numbers to get the true odds) into a 50/50 "tie," simply because there's a glitch in the battle simulator that allowed the losing player to stall long enough to force outside intervention (TD coming in to make a ruling)? The turn limit is not a feature of the game we're supposedly simulating and the losing player should not be rewarded for abusing it. There's no problem at all if an equally optimal alternative series of plays is made (fast KO) and the losing player should not be rewarded for manufacturing it. Yet, the losing player was rewarded. confusedjackiechan.jpg, areyouseriousface.jpg, etc.
It isn't really Tiba's fault (or the Ruiners). He strictly did what was best for his team. Sure, he's a massive douchebag for doing it (we should extend the sportsmanship rule to cover the actual battles too if this is going to become a thing) and I think less of him for it, but this is more on the hands of the people who made this decision for supporting it.
Calling Tiba's plays optimal is disingenuous since, while that's strictly true from a theoretical standpoint, both the fast KO and slowrolling it are equal options in this particular circumstance. (The outcomes are 100% assured and identical either way.) Regardless, it's contradictory to say on the one hand "Tiba is playing optimally because this is what he would (should) still do if the simulator worked properly" and on the other hand "Bed won't realize his advantage soon enough because the simulator doesn't work properly." Maybe we can't play "infinite" turns but we can certainly play more than would've been necessary to determine the winner of the heavily weighted coinflip. As "unfair" as it supposedly is to force Tiba to make the alternative (equally optimal) play to beat the bug, it's equally unfair if not more so to saddle Bed and his team with an effective loss when he was in the advantaged position.
And hey, just sayin' but this issue could easily be corrected anytime in the next seven weeks...
It isn't really Tiba's fault (or the Ruiners). He strictly did what was best for his team. Sure, he's a massive douchebag for doing it (we should extend the sportsmanship rule to cover the actual battles too if this is going to become a thing) and I think less of him for it, but this is more on the hands of the people who made this decision for supporting it.
Calling Tiba's plays optimal is disingenuous since, while that's strictly true from a theoretical standpoint, both the fast KO and slowrolling it are equal options in this particular circumstance. (The outcomes are 100% assured and identical either way.) Regardless, it's contradictory to say on the one hand "Tiba is playing optimally because this is what he would (should) still do if the simulator worked properly" and on the other hand "Bed won't realize his advantage soon enough because the simulator doesn't work properly." Maybe we can't play "infinite" turns but we can certainly play more than would've been necessary to determine the winner of the heavily weighted coinflip. As "unfair" as it supposedly is to force Tiba to make the alternative (equally optimal) play to beat the bug, it's equally unfair if not more so to saddle Bed and his team with an effective loss when he was in the advantaged position.
And hey, just sayin' but this issue could easily be corrected anytime in the next seven weeks...
I guess here is a little something from me too. The problem is that i am obviously not in an objective persepctive on this.
Tiba was dragging the battle out, not me. While i do agree that my win was nowhere near a 100% win, I was in a winning position for the simple reason that if Tiba kept on doing what he was doing, (switch around with his resting and recovering mons) I would've won for the sole reason that if he's out of rests he has way worse odds combatting my Snorlax. Reflect Raikou and Toxic Skarm and the possibility of special drops (crunch hasn't been confirmed on ttar, as far as i know) is a plan of winning that game, it's just that this plan won't really work out when you barely have any rests or reflects left. I was in an advantaged position and i was in an even more advantaged position because of how long the battle dragged on. Tibas play was not optimal in the sense that he was actually lowering his chances of beating lax by using pp, so he was waiting for a decision to be made too. I was hoping for the decision to go in my favor because of the reasons stated here and by several other users before.
I am actually kinda disappointed by the poor sportsmanship shown towards me. I have been timestalled (seriously, you don't need 45 minutes to pick a team, especially when you got a whole week to prepare) when Tiba was in a clear timezone advantage, and tiba repeatedly tried to troll me or make me insecure and annoy me wherever possible. FAQ special: "hurr durr beds why didn't you agree on the rematch?" - first of all I never asked for a rematch (as wrongly stated on irc by some ruiners people), i asked for a tie before the adv game had started. Tiba refused that. Tiba knew he could drag on the game till the adv match has ended. As soon as the adv match was heavily in the favor of dekzen (at least what i've been told) Tiba requested a tie or a rematch. And as before stated, I was actually in a position where i had the advantage, people told me to go for that and not settle for a tie. Not to mention that i don't really have a big personal interest in cooperating with unsportsmanlike people or to do a rematch that decides on the whole week of my team at fucking 6 am in the morning when i had no sleep and played an exhausting 500 turns game. "hurr durr beds why didn't you instantly go to sleep after the battle, you said it was sooo late t.dekzeh" - I downed like 2 coffees and 3 energy drinks during the match to stay awake. That means i was awake at that point but it doesn't mean i was anywhere near a mental condition in which you can play a rematch (which i wouldn't have agreed on anyways) with the stakes being that high. "hurr durr why would they make tiba kill the zapdos, just tell beds to go for the snorlax crit" - that is the single most retarded thing i have heard the whole night, don't get me wrong. Tiba can easily outstall Snorlax, he just can't outstall last mon Snorlax though (i did have EQ as last move, for anyone wondering. It also depended on Tyranitar's unrevealed moves i guess. Crunch, Dynamic Punch and actually Rock Slide too would've giving Tiba better odds, Curse could've won him the game, that's why he obviously didn't have that.) The difference between making me risk the loss (getting outstalled because tiba can still phaze) and making him risk the loss (kill zapdos) is that killing zapdos was an event that would've happened anyways, because he either kills the zapdos or the zapdos can actually kill his whole team as soon as he runs out of recovery moves. "hurr durr why didn't you let zapdos die first?" - that was the biggest mistake I made, in hindsight. The thing is that i didn't see that turn of events coming beforehand and i doubt many people would've seen it. I guess that's what borat meant that you have to think hundreds of turns ahead.
I am accepting any administrative decision anyways. I do not have an objective standpoint on this and of course i will only be fully happy with the decision favoring me. I realize it's a shitty position to actually make a 100% fair judgement call on this because it's probably not possible at all. I'd like to apologize to my team for not being able to get that win and thank everyone who supported me on IRC and on here. With this post i am not trying to beg for the decision to be reversed, I just wanted to clear some things up and show my perspective of some things. I also hold no grudges on anyone and want to wish the ruiners good luck in the rest of this tournament.
Tiba was dragging the battle out, not me. While i do agree that my win was nowhere near a 100% win, I was in a winning position for the simple reason that if Tiba kept on doing what he was doing, (switch around with his resting and recovering mons) I would've won for the sole reason that if he's out of rests he has way worse odds combatting my Snorlax. Reflect Raikou and Toxic Skarm and the possibility of special drops (crunch hasn't been confirmed on ttar, as far as i know) is a plan of winning that game, it's just that this plan won't really work out when you barely have any rests or reflects left. I was in an advantaged position and i was in an even more advantaged position because of how long the battle dragged on. Tibas play was not optimal in the sense that he was actually lowering his chances of beating lax by using pp, so he was waiting for a decision to be made too. I was hoping for the decision to go in my favor because of the reasons stated here and by several other users before.
I am actually kinda disappointed by the poor sportsmanship shown towards me. I have been timestalled (seriously, you don't need 45 minutes to pick a team, especially when you got a whole week to prepare) when Tiba was in a clear timezone advantage, and tiba repeatedly tried to troll me or make me insecure and annoy me wherever possible. FAQ special: "hurr durr beds why didn't you agree on the rematch?" - first of all I never asked for a rematch (as wrongly stated on irc by some ruiners people), i asked for a tie before the adv game had started. Tiba refused that. Tiba knew he could drag on the game till the adv match has ended. As soon as the adv match was heavily in the favor of dekzen (at least what i've been told) Tiba requested a tie or a rematch. And as before stated, I was actually in a position where i had the advantage, people told me to go for that and not settle for a tie. Not to mention that i don't really have a big personal interest in cooperating with unsportsmanlike people or to do a rematch that decides on the whole week of my team at fucking 6 am in the morning when i had no sleep and played an exhausting 500 turns game. "hurr durr beds why didn't you instantly go to sleep after the battle, you said it was sooo late t.dekzeh" - I downed like 2 coffees and 3 energy drinks during the match to stay awake. That means i was awake at that point but it doesn't mean i was anywhere near a mental condition in which you can play a rematch (which i wouldn't have agreed on anyways) with the stakes being that high. "hurr durr why would they make tiba kill the zapdos, just tell beds to go for the snorlax crit" - that is the single most retarded thing i have heard the whole night, don't get me wrong. Tiba can easily outstall Snorlax, he just can't outstall last mon Snorlax though (i did have EQ as last move, for anyone wondering. It also depended on Tyranitar's unrevealed moves i guess. Crunch, Dynamic Punch and actually Rock Slide too would've giving Tiba better odds, Curse could've won him the game, that's why he obviously didn't have that.) The difference between making me risk the loss (getting outstalled because tiba can still phaze) and making him risk the loss (kill zapdos) is that killing zapdos was an event that would've happened anyways, because he either kills the zapdos or the zapdos can actually kill his whole team as soon as he runs out of recovery moves. "hurr durr why didn't you let zapdos die first?" - that was the biggest mistake I made, in hindsight. The thing is that i didn't see that turn of events coming beforehand and i doubt many people would've seen it. I guess that's what borat meant that you have to think hundreds of turns ahead.
I am accepting any administrative decision anyways. I do not have an objective standpoint on this and of course i will only be fully happy with the decision favoring me. I realize it's a shitty position to actually make a 100% fair judgement call on this because it's probably not possible at all. I'd like to apologize to my team for not being able to get that win and thank everyone who supported me on IRC and on here. With this post i am not trying to beg for the decision to be reversed, I just wanted to clear some things up and show my perspective of some things. I also hold no grudges on anyone and want to wish the ruiners good luck in the rest of this tournament.
Do I lose my trophy if Sharks don't retain?
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Still waiting for that
my post wasn't directed at you specifically but now that we're on the subject, i don't give a shit. i don't remember you insulting anyone, i just remember you haxing windsong and being a smartass.
It wasn't an optimal play to KO Zapdos because that would result in a ~80% chance of losing. Both players knew about the 1024 turn limit before they played, and by agreeing to play on PO instead of the default sim (PS), they consented to playing with the server's limit (a limit that is intentionally programmed into the sim and is not a glitch). Therefore, once it became apparent that Bedschibaer wasn't going to waste Snorlax's PP like he had done at an earlier point, Tiba's optimal play was to force the tie as a 100% tie is preferable to a 20% chance of winning.
As for "sportsmanship", you can't say it's being a bad sport to not intentionally make suboptimal moves during a battle. All Tiba did was play as well as he possibly could after he lost his win condition to several turns of bad luck.
If you think it's being a bad sport to not offer a rematch, then under some circumstances I could see your point. In this case, we offered the rematch at 5-5 when it was completely neutral and benefited no one. Raiders (minus Bedschibaer apparently) only became interested in a rematch once the series went to 5-6 because a tie would ensure a loss. Bedschibaer WANTED the tie before that happened, so there's no way you can claim that they felt that they had the win. Not giving the Raiders the rematch now when they had refused it when it was completely fair is hardly being bad sports.
This is kinda irrelevant now since Raiders are going to get their rematch based on some simulator ruling, but Wutevz.
Getting called out for "bad sportsmanship" by the team I've had people tell me should be removed from the league for their behaviour is pretty funny though.
Hey Ciele, we're friends and all, but a single player does not speak for an entire team. That last line is a really low blow and an actual example of "bad sportsmanship"; despite the popular opinion of the Sharks, we've been trying hard the last couple seasons to keep our players in check and fix the league's perception of us.
good to see the correct decision has been made.
hey man, leave my team out of this. pretty sure from my post its clear that these are the sentiments of only myself. I know u like your metrics, so if you want an indication of whether my team agrees with my post or not, you only have to see how many of them actually 'liked' it. PS maybe there's another reason these people want the sharks removed from the league
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