Smogon Simple Questions & Suggestions Thread

Plague von Karma

Os gwelwch yn dda fod yn garedig!
is a Pokemon Researcher
With all due respect Ortheore, I think you could channel this disillusionment into something greater. You've contributed a lot to PP, PO, and more, and nothing can take that away from you. However, you need to understand that like with every other site, you can't just automatically get status and such through others. It just doesn't work like that, and can even come off as entitled to an outsider. Badges are centred around the user's contribution to Smogon rather than the greater community. You may call it arbitrary based on how the RBY Community works, but once again, this is centred around Smogon.

So, why not contribute and earn the badges - which give PR access by the way - as you have elsewhere? Smogon isn't the greatest place for RBY tourneys, but you can host unofficial ones, there are whole channels for that. RBYPL and the Summer Seasonal are running right now thanks to the systems in place, they just need hosts. This is a common way people get Community Contributor. Why not apply and give it a shot?

In regards to the two analyses you've had going on for a while...have you asked the QC team to help? It's how my analyses got through so quickly, I asked Amaranth and FOMG every time I filled it out, then even went to the extent of asking specific GP members. Sure, this is certainly going out of your way, but if you're this frustrated it's not a bad idea.

Hell, if analyses aren't for you, why not try contributing RBY articles to The Flying Press? There's a submission section here, though be sure to read the details in the main forum. I've considered it myself, as I think there's a lot I could do, but since Disaster Area's ban there's not been much going on in terms of RBY content in articles. This is how you earn Smogon Media Contributor, I believe? I know there's one for it, anyway. There's even Facebook Spotlights which has channels for set submissions. This, once again, is a way to earn the badge, and you will very likely get Pre-Contributor on the way.

I'm throwing ideas at the wall here, but hey, I really want to see you become more established and I know you're capable of it. I know you can do it, you just need to swallow your pride and give it a shot. If you need help contributing, you can always message me and I can try to give advice.
 
I keep missing notifications for threads, so I could go a while without knowing those threads were updated. Is there a way to prevent this from happening?
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Smogon Media Contributor
I keep missing notifications for threads, so I could go a while without knowing those threads were updated. Is there a way to prevent this from happening?
afaik, it's a XenForo thing. One of the causes for that is someone made a post that was later deleted, so you were alerted, but the alert got removed and since you never responded to the alert, the forum doesn't bother notifying you till you check the new post(s).

Perhaps you can occassionally check your watched threads page to make sure you have not missed anything
 
With all due respect Ortheore, I think you could channel this disillusionment into something greater. You've contributed a lot to PP, PO, and more, and nothing can take that away from you. However, you need to understand that like with every other site, you can't just automatically get status and such through others. It just doesn't work like that, and can even come off as entitled to an outsider. Badges are centred around the user's contribution to Smogon rather than the greater community. You may call it arbitrary based on how the RBY Community works, but once again, this is centred around Smogon.
I'm not asking for a badge or status though, and I don't want to go chasing them for their own sake. All I want is to get a chance to speak my mind without resorting to the excessive theatrics that I have previously. At present we don't even get that, despite the fact that smogon's role in rby was built off the backs of everyone who contributed at PP then migrated to smogon, only for smogon to bar many from any agency in decision-making processes that impacted their whole community. Sure, you could argue that technically decisions made on smogon technically only need to be adhered to within the context of smogon, but the notion of attempting to disagree with a smogon decision and make a competing ruleset as an external community is absurd in practice. The whole situation is absolutely disgusting and I sincerely believe we'd be better off fully investing in an alternative community.

That said, I had an idea that doesn't make me want to throw up. Maybe it will lead to something.
 

Plague von Karma

Os gwelwch yn dda fod yn garedig!
is a Pokemon Researcher
I'm not asking for a badge or status though, and I don't want to go chasing them for their own sake. All I want is to get a chance to speak my mind without resorting to the excessive theatrics that I have previously. At present we don't even get that, despite the fact that smogon's role in rby was built off the backs of everyone who contributed at PP then migrated to smogon, only for smogon to bar many from any agency in decision-making processes that impacted their whole community. Sure, you could argue that technically decisions made on smogon technically only need to be adhered to within the context of smogon, but the notion of attempting to disagree with a smogon decision and make a competing ruleset as an external community is absurd in practice. The whole situation is absolutely disgusting and I sincerely believe we'd be better off fully investing in an alternative community.

That said, I had an idea that doesn't make me want to throw up. Maybe it will lead to something.
You can, and have, spoken your mind, and people like BKC and Troller have gotten PR access for special cases. Hell, some people have had their posts sent in by proxy if they're of particular notability, though apparently rules are a grey area there. You could well have gone through either of these processes by simply asking, but I'm not sure if you'd get PR access in this situation due to how they perceive you after the tirades you've gone on. There's nothing wrong with giving PR thoughts outside of the thread, people have done it before and some have even been cited in discussions before. You can make an impact outside of PR.

If you need a reason for Smogon not giving everyone PR access, you don't need to look much further than an average OU Suspect Test thread. Many posts get deleted or otherwise criticised for not being the most informed things in the world. Smogon is a much larger competitive community than something like PP or RBY 2k20. I understand your frustrations given the RBY Counter fiasco, hell, I even agree with you on most points. However, I think you need to rethink the scale here. It just isn't realistic.
 

sawamura

Elian and Lemmy are my Dirty Husband
is a Tiering Contributor
You can, and have, spoken your mind, and people like BKC and Troller have gotten PR access for special cases. Hell, some people have had their posts sent in by proxy if they're of particular notability, though apparently rules are a grey area there. You could well have gone through either of these processes by simply asking, but I'm not sure if you'd get PR access in this situation due to how they perceive you after the tirades you've gone on. There's nothing wrong with giving PR thoughts outside of the thread, people have done it before and some have even been cited in discussions before. You can make an impact outside of PR.

If you need a reason for Smogon not giving everyone PR access, you don't need to look much further than an average OU Suspect Test thread. Many posts get deleted or otherwise criticised for not being the most informed things in the world. Smogon is a much larger competitive community than something like PP or RBY 2k20. I understand your frustrations given the RBY Counter fiasco, hell, I even agree with you on most points. However, I think you need to rethink the scale here. It just isn't realistic.
I completely agree with you Plague von Karma and to be honest something bigger than smogon? is completely impossible now at least I think so. It's good that you want to steer that course but without that base and the RBY 2k20 Fiasco it will not be possible but I encourage you. Things are changing a lot and more in these Times where any point makes a difference
 
You can, and have, spoken your mind, and people like BKC and Troller have gotten PR access for special cases. Hell, some people have had their posts sent in by proxy if they're of particular notability, though apparently rules are a grey area there. You could well have gone through either of these processes by simply asking, but I'm not sure if you'd get PR access in this situation due to how they perceive you after the tirades you've gone on. There's nothing wrong with giving PR thoughts outside of the thread, people have done it before and some have even been cited in discussions before. You can make an impact outside of PR.

If you need a reason for Smogon not giving everyone PR access, you don't need to look much further than an average OU Suspect Test thread. Many posts get deleted or otherwise criticised for not being the most informed things in the world. Smogon is a much larger competitive community than something like PP or RBY 2k20. I understand your frustrations given the RBY Counter fiasco, hell, I even agree with you on most points. However, I think you need to rethink the scale here. It just isn't realistic.
I might reply properly via pm when I have time because this is increasingly a 2 person convo that isn't the focus of the thread, but I absolutely dispute that you are free to speak your mind. Speaking your mind about PR matters as a non-PR poster is not a matter of taking part in a regular conversation in a different place, and there are severe limitations on how you're able to contribute your perspective, so it absolutely feels like you're deprived of a voice. Furthermore, at no point did I ask for PR to be fully open. The only thing I mentioned being fully open was a separate space that mirrors what goes on in PR- this mirrored space could theoretically have zero impact on PR, it would literally just be for everyone else to react and discuss among themselves. That's not to say I don't have issues with how PR access is granted, but I definitely am not advocating for it to be fully open

Also I asked for PR access prior to my recent dramas, and I think my case at the time was pretty bloody reasonable. No luck, and here we are.

sawamura I must've missed something- RBY2K20 fiasco? Is this something I missed bc I barely use Discord or something? Because I don't know anything about it
 

Plague von Karma

Os gwelwch yn dda fod yn garedig!
is a Pokemon Researcher
I might reply properly via pm when I have time because this is increasingly a 2 person convo that isn't the focus of the thread, but I absolutely dispute that you are free to speak your mind. Speaking your mind about PR matters as a non-PR poster is not a matter of taking part in a regular conversation in a different place, and there are severe limitations on how you're able to contribute your perspective, so it absolutely feels like you're deprived of a voice. Furthermore, at no point did I ask for PR to be fully open. The only thing I mentioned being fully open was a separate space that mirrors what goes on in PR- this mirrored space could theoretically have zero impact on PR, it would literally just be for everyone else to react and discuss among themselves. That's not to say I don't have issues with how PR access is granted, but I definitely am not advocating for it to be fully open

Also I asked for PR access prior to my recent dramas, and I think my case at the time was pretty bloody reasonable. No luck, and here we are.
I'm not disputing that you may feel alienated or don't have a voice, but I'm talking about the here and the now. I personally doubt PR would change because there's so many ways to get access: be a council member (even RBY, Troller got there through it), contributing tourneys, stuff we've gone over before. All of these show that PR users have investment in the community and want to contribute to the growth of it.

Well, if you couldn't get PR access by asking, why not earn it like others have? It's a lot easier to get a badge than you would initially think, so long as you're dedicated. As mentioned before, Smogon centers contributions around itself. You've hosted tourneys on PP, why not try hosting some here? I know damn well there would be at least a few participants. You could start there, surely? If you just don't want to earn a badge through contributions, which can happen naturally by the way, you can always DM the OP as people do. Not to mention there's cases like ADV Sand Veil which have straight up had mirror posts in other areas, in this case Ruins of Alph. Give it a look, maybe you can even make something of it.

To note, I didn't even expect to get my Researcher badge, but within a week or two of reporting issues with the Stadium sim in a single thread it just kind of happened? I sometimes wonder if I even deserve it. Sure, this is personal experience, but maybe it'll help you.
 
I'm not disputing that you may feel alienated or don't have a voice, but I'm talking about the here and the now. I personally doubt PR would change because there's so many ways to get access: be a council member (even RBY, Troller got there through it), contributing tourneys, stuff we've gone over before. All of these show that PR users have investment in the community and want to contribute to the growth of it.

Well, if you couldn't get PR access by asking, why not earn it like others have? It's a lot easier to get a badge than you would initially think, so long as you're dedicated. As mentioned before, Smogon centers contributions around itself. You've hosted tourneys on PP, why not try hosting some here? I know damn well there would be at least a few participants. You could start there, surely? If you just don't want to earn a badge through contributions, which can happen naturally by the way, you can always DM the OP as people do. Not to mention there's cases like ADV Sand Veil which have straight up had mirror posts in other areas, in this case Ruins of Alph. Give it a look, maybe you can even make something of it.

To note, I didn't even expect to get my Researcher badge, but within a week or two of reporting issues with the Stadium sim in a single thread it just kind of happened? I sometimes wonder if I even deserve it. Sure, this is personal experience, but maybe it'll help you.
It feels like you're missing the point. This suggestion does more than let one salty person sort of get into PR. This is a way for ANYONE to speak on PR matters without flooding PR with uninformed posts. I remember before and during the Cinderace retest, the metagame discussion thread was flooded with posts talking about whether or not Cinderace should be retested. The thread got locked several times because it wasn't the right place for that discussion, but for most of the users involved, there WAS no right place for that discussion.
 

Plague von Karma

Os gwelwch yn dda fod yn garedig!
is a Pokemon Researcher
It feels like you're missing the point. This suggestion does more than let one salty person sort of get into PR. This is a way for ANYONE to speak on PR matters without flooding PR with uninformed posts. I remember before and during the Cinderace retest, the metagame discussion thread was flooded with posts talking about whether or not Cinderace should be retested. The thread got locked several times because it wasn't the right place for that discussion, but for most of the users involved, there WAS no right place for that discussion.
At the time of Cinderace's initial ban, they literally said they were going to retest Cinderace later. The decision was already made, so discussion at that point was meaningless. I don't fault the thread being locked multiple times at all.

People can already discuss most, if not all PR topics in metagame discussion threads, that's the point of them a lot of the time. This has been the usual way of going about it a lot of the time, and hell, sometimes they get cited in discussions as I outlined before. And once again, sometimes threads like ADV Sand Veil are directly made for the express purpose of gauging non-PR opinion. If you make a subforum for less informed discussion, I mean, ok? I'm not disputing the creation of it, but what would it really change that doesn't already have places for it?
 
At the time of Cinderace's initial ban, they literally said they were going to retest Cinderace later. The decision was already made, so discussion at that point was meaningless. I don't fault the thread being locked multiple times at all.

People can already discuss most, if not all PR topics in metagame discussion threads, that's the point of them a lot of the time. This has been the usual way of going about it a lot of the time, and hell, sometimes they get cited in discussions as I outlined before. And once again, sometimes threads like ADV Sand Veil are directly made for the express purpose of gauging non-PR opinion. If you make a subforum for less informed discussion, I mean, ok? I'm not disputing the creation of it, but what would it really change that doesn't already have places for it?
They said they would retest Ace, and then a ton of people thought "wait that's really dumb" and tried to talk the council out of it. Except apparently it was due to tiering policy and not a decision just made by the OU council, so there was nothing that could be done in that thread.

Sure, someone can PM a policy maker to say why the Ace situation was dumb, but that only reaches an audience of one unless they decide to share the PM with other policy makers. And even if you PM all the policy makers at once, non-policy-making badge holders aren't able to see your message and comment on it.
 

Plague von Karma

Os gwelwch yn dda fod yn garedig!
is a Pokemon Researcher
They said they would retest Ace, and then a ton of people thought "wait that's really dumb" and tried to talk the council out of it. Except apparently it was due to tiering policy and not a decision just made by the OU council, so there was nothing that could be done in that thread.

Sure, someone can PM a policy maker to say why the Ace situation was dumb, but that only reaches an audience of one unless they decide to share the PM with other policy makers. And even if you PM all the policy makers at once, non-policy-making badge holders aren't able to see your message and comment on it.
Tiering policy encourages threats to be retested after a quickban to ensure that it gets due process. There's plenty of documentation on it.

You can DM the council + policy makers if you really want to, there's always the option of adding multiple people. It's not necessarily an audience of one, and it ensures you get the most educated response possible.
 
Tiering policy encourages threats to be retested after a quickban to ensure that it gets due process. There's plenty of documentation on it.

You can DM the council + policy makers if you really want to, there's always the option of adding multiple people. It's not necessarily an audience of one, and it ensures you get the most educated response possible.
Except most of the discussion was about how the old tiering policy and documentation doesn't work anymore because of DLC. Also,
even if you PM all the policy makers at once, non-policy-making badge holders aren't able to see your message and comment on it.
 

Plague von Karma

Os gwelwch yn dda fod yn garedig!
is a Pokemon Researcher
Except most of the discussion was about how the old tiering policy and documentation doesn't work anymore because of DLC.
Yes, the DLC does in fact exist and tiering policy has to adapt. It's far from non-functional as you're saying though, and it still needs to be followed while it exists in its current form. You may disagree, but that's how it went. I'm not sure what more you want here.

As for the DM thing, yes I did read that, and I still believe my point is valid. I don't see why having others see what could be misinformed is important regarding tiering policy. You can always voice it somewhere, people have made threads debating bans with extensive posts before with permission from council members. But, you can also contact the council and policy-makers with queries regarding tests. This is common procedure. There's historically been a lot of misinformation regarding how tiering policy works, and while that definitely could be fixed, I think the current system works fine? Once again, I'm not opposing it, I just don't see why it's necessary?

Anyway, I'm gonna leave this discussion as-is, since it's deviating far from the thread's purpose. If you want to converse further my DMs are always open.
 
I straight up cited areas where you can in my previous posts, but ok.

Once again, my DMs are open if you want to discuss this further.
You've only mentioned cases of specific tiering decisions that the council of a particular metagame wants feedback on. Threads like those are not the place to discuss tiering policy as a whole, such as "how is Smogon going to adapt to DLC".

This may be deviating from the purpose of this thread, but given that the core of my and presumably Ortheore's argument is that there isn't any place for non-badged users to discuss this stuff outside of PMs, moving this discussion to PMs seems counterproductive.

Sorry, Quiet. You posted just as I was writing that last sentence.

EDIT: Actually, this isn't just the SQSA thread. It's also the Suggestion thread.
 

Dybala jr

Formerly Centinela
Suggestion: Add a Room Owner Badge

add a room owner badge with the idea of more easily identifying these users and giving them a form of recognition more easily.

Being a room owner is a great contribution to ps in general and I think it would be nice to give a form of recognition for it and also some users who want to talk to a room owner in smogon and they do not know who he is or how he appears in the forum
 

Kalalokki

i have obtained dem leaks
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Social Media Head
Suggestion: Add a Room Owner Badge

add a room owner badge with the idea of more easily identifying these users and giving them a form of recognition more easily.

Being a room owner is a great contribution to ps in general and I think it would be nice to give a form of recognition for it and also some users who want to talk to a room owner in smogon and they do not know who he is or how he appears in the forum
No. A list of all ROs and their rooms can be found here.
 

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