Smogon Triples Viability Rankings

[NOVED]

Approved by The Immortal
Art maybe coming soon? If anyone wants to draw something for this then let me know
Smogon Triples Discussion thread can be found here
Usage stats can be found here(The ladder usage is awful, for better usage stats check here and scroll down. These are the Battle Spot stats, keep in mind it's a slightly different meta and some mons are excluded but it's a great resource for getting a better understanding of the actual usage of certain pokemon and their movesets)

Smogon Triples Viability Rankings

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Welcome to the official Smogon Triples Viability Rankings topic. In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon in the triples metagame into "tiers". You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in triples and what tier they should fall under. The general idea of the topic is to rank each pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats. If you have a good case to add something to a tier, please provide good reasoning and evidence (although same goes for if you want to move something). Keep in mind this is a different format from singles and doubles, do not make nominations based on theorymoning if you don't have experiences with the pokemon in the current meta. Good luck and happy posting!


S Rank

Reserved for the top threats in the Triples metagame. The pokemon in this tier are able to perform multiple roles to tremendous effect, whilst having few to no flaws. Support Pokemon in this tier can easily create free turns for their teammates without creating clear openings for the opponent. Any flaws that these Pokemon have can be taken care of with little to no team support.

Aegislash

Kangaskhan-Mega

Landorus-T

A Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that function very well within the current Triples metagame. The pokemon in this tier are either able to perform multiple roles to great effect, or execute one extremely well. Support pokemon in this tier can create free turns, but not as easily as those in the S Rank.The flaws that the pokemon in this tier may have are usually mitigated by their positive traits, or with minimal team support.

A+

Charizard-Mega Y

Cresselia

Diancie-Mega

Heatran

Hydreigon

Salamence-Mega

Sylveon

Talonflame

Terrakion

A

Bisharp

Blastoise-Mega

Hitmontop

Keldeo

Kyurem-Black

Mawile-Mega

Metagross-Mega

Politoed

Shaymin-Sky

Suicune

Venusaur

Thundurus

Togekiss

Zapdos

A-

Amoonguss

Camerupt-Mega

Excadrill

Gardevoir-Mega

Gengar-Mega

Gyarados-Mega

Gyarados

Meowstic-M

Rotom-Wash

Venusaur-Mega

B Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that can fulfill a viable role in the Triples metagame, but are either somewhat outclassed by Pokemon in a higher rank, or have notable flaws that prevent them from filling their role to full extent.The pokemon in this tier are usually predictable, and either require team support to work to it's full potential, or might provide free turns for the opponent. The flaws that the pokemon in this tier have are sometimes mitigated by their positive traits, or can be patched with some team support.

B+

Abomasnow-Mega

Aromatisse

Azumarill

Breloom

Chandelure

Clefable

Ferrothorn

Genesect

Gengar

Gothitelle

Hariyama

Jellicent

Jirachi

Kingdra

Ludicolo

Mienshao

Milotic

Rotom-H

Scrafty

B

Arcanine

Aerodactyl-Mega

Conkeldurr

Deoxys-A

Greninja

Mamoswine

Mew

Rhyperior

Sableye

Scizor

Slowbro

Slowbro-Mega

Swampert-Mega

Thundurus-T

Tyranitar

Whimsicott

B-

Aerodactyl

Latias

Porygon2

Weavile

C Rank

Reserved for pokemon that can work within the Triples metagame, however, they either have crippling flaws that prevent consistent performance, or require too much specific team support to synergize with most teams. Support Pokemon in this tier have a hard time creating free turns, and often allow the opponent to capitalize on the opportunity to create free turns for themselves. Pokemon that are completely outclassed by those of the upper tiers, may also be placed within this tier.

C+

Clefaify

Crobat

Darkrai

Dragalge

Garchomp

Landorus-I

Latios

Lucario-Mega

Lopunny-Mega

Machamp

Pinsir-Mega

Raikou

Serperior

Tornadus-I

Victini

Virizion

Volcarona

C

Blaziken

Braviary

Charizard-Mega X

Cherrim

Clawitzer

Dusclops

Feraligatr

Gallade-Mega

Garchomp-Mega

Gastrodon

Manectric-Mega

Swampert

Typhlosion

C-

Cofagrigus

Raichu

Rhydon

D Rank

Reserved for Pokemon who do not perform consistent enough to be listed in the above ranks. Many niche Pokemon can be squeezed into Triples teams due to a certain move or ability. Many Pokemon fit here, but none of them have a place in the metagame solid enough to have a special spot on the rankings.

-EVERYTHING ELSE-
But, Triples has a lot of room for interesting strategies that work with very specific pokemon so don't always count out pokemon that aren't in S - C.

 

[superGezy]

Interesting thread, i like the idea... (P.S. im the guy you battled against an hour ago)

Even though some pokemon could arguably be shifted up or down a rank, i think you did a good job portraying the meta in general. On first look, the most notable change that i think could be made though is landorus-t in S rank. I know it has great offensive power with a tremendous base attack stat of 145, coupled with an also great offensive movepool with good coverage, letting him fill in whatever type your team needs to counter, as well as the ability to hit all adjacent opponents with moves like rock slide and earthquake. Also, its ability intimidate gives the everpresent physical attackers like mega-khan a harder time doing their job. However, i still don't consider him a top threat, simply because of its 4x weakness to ice, which makes him prone to 1KO hits and overall doesn't make him as much of a durable and reliable ally as mega-khan and aegislash can be, and as such i don't think it deserves its place aside them in S rank, and a place in rank A or B would fit him better. I might not be fully right though, so i'm open for a debate.

Some other pokemon i also think could be consired for a change in their rank are aromatisse, which is in my opinion the best support for trick room teams, and as such should go up a rank, and mega venusaur which in triples doesn't provide much and can even be outclassed by its non-mega form, which can have a lot of utilities alongside charizard-y, and as such should go down a rank. Let me know what you guys think.

 

[NOVED]

Interesting thread, i like the idea... (P.S. im the guy you battled against an hour ago)

Even though some pokemon could arguably be shifted up or down a rank, i think you did a good job portraying the meta in general. On first look, the most notable change that i think could be made though is landorus-t in S rank. I know it has great offensive power with a tremendous base attack stat of 145, coupled with an also great offensive movepool with good coverage, letting him fill in whatever type your team needs to counter, as well as the ability to hit all adjacent opponents with moves like rock slide and earthquake. Also, its ability intimidate gives the everpresent physical attackers like mega-khan a harder time doing their job. However, i still don't consider him a top threat, simply because of its 4x weakness to ice, which makes him prone to 1KO hits and overall doesn't make him as much of a durable and reliable ally as mega-khan and aegislash can be, and as such i don't think it deserves its place aside them in S rank, and a place in rank A or B would fit him better. I might not be fully right though, so i'm open for a debate.

Some other pokemon i also think could be consired for a change in their rank are aromatisse, which is in my opinion the best support for trick room teams, and as such should go up a rank, and mega venusaur which in triples doesn't provide much and can even be outclassed by its non-mega form, which can have a lot of utilities alongside charizard-y, and as such should go down a rank. Let me know what you guys think.

I like the idea of idea of Aromatisse rising and Venusaur dropping. I'd like to hear what other people think though.

I don't agree with Landorus-T dropping though. I definitely do not agree with B rank at all. I could maybe agree with it being lowered to A but it'd never be short of A+(once that's a thing). I don't think being weak to ice is enough of a reason to drop it. Again, I'd like to hear what other people think.

 

[superGezy]

I like the idea of idea of Aromatisse rising and Venusaur dropping. I'd like to hear what other people think though.

I don't agree with Landorus-T dropping though. I definitely do not agree with B rank at all. I could maybe agree with it being lowered to A but it'd never be short of A+(once that's a thing). I don't think being weak to ice is enough of a reason to drop it. Again, I'd like to hear what other people think.

I agree that B rank is definitely too low. Since it's a huge threat, but just not as huge as m-khan and aegislash, I would see him as an half step between S rank and A rank, like an upcoming A+ rank as you said. Another pokemon i could be tempted to put in A+ as well(and maybe even in S) is hitmontop. It has so many utilities and can blend in ANY kind of team perfectly well and create a lot of opportunities. He really have few flaws, and those he has(e.g. brave bird, hyper voice) can be protected from by its own moves(quick guard, wide guard).

 

[NOVED]

I agree that B rank is definitely too low. Since it's a huge threat, but just not as huge as m-khan and aegislash, I would see him as an half step between S rank and A rank, like an upcoming A+ rank as you said. Another pokemon i could be tempted to put in A+ as well(and maybe even in S) is hitmontop. It has so many utilities and can blend in ANY kind of team perfectly well and create a lot of opportunities. He really have few flaws, and those he has(e.g. brave bird, hyper voice) can be protected from by its own moves(quick guard, wide guard).

Why do you think Lando should drop though? Because in your original post you listed many great qualities and only one downside to lando, it's ice weakness. But you can u-turn, switch out and even shift in triples(which is easier to do with a scarf to outspeed most things) to avoid being hit by ice attacks. That's not a huge issue for lando. I really don't think a typing weakness is worthy of bringing a mon down from S. Especially since lando only has 2 weaknesses. I'd like to hear more of an argument.

 

[superGezy]

Why do you think Lando should drop though? Because in your original post you listed many great qualities and only one downside to lando, it's ice weakness. But you can u-turn, switch out and even shift in triples(which is easier to do with a scarf to outspeed most things) to avoid being hit by ice attacks. That's not a huge issue for lando. I really don't think a typing weakness is worthy of bringing a mon down from S. Especially since lando only has 2 weaknesses. I'd like to hear more of an argument.

Lando has indeed much more qualities than flaws. To me, what makes him worth dropping down to A however is simply the gap that exists between him and the pokemon from S, khan and aegislash, which in my eyes are much more difficult to play around, are much more unpredictable, and are much more versatile and can fit in many different kind of teams. Landorus is more a one way pokemon. The main role he will play upon a team is to put offensive pressure on the opposite team. Sure, being one way isn't bad in the slightest and landorus excels in this role. However, that makes him a bit more predictable and easy to play around. This lack of versatility also narrows the amount of teams he could fit in. For example, he wouldn't do well in a trick room team, whereas aegislash and khan could. As of his 4x weakness to ice, to me, 4x weaknesses are always crippling no matter what meta you play in. Since a lot of pokemon will carry a non-stab ice type move, you don't always suspect it to be directed towards you. This makes landorus an easy target and makes him easier to get rid off.

So, when i'm saying lando isn't a top threat, i'm only saying this by contrast with m-khan and aegislash, which are to me the best pokemon of this meta. Landorus sure is a threat, and a big one, but just not as much as they are. Again, everything i say here is from my personnal experience, so hearing what others have to say would be necessary before giving a definitive conclusion.

 

[NOVED]

Alright, so I just added in +/- for each rank. So you can nominate based on that now :)

Right now, I want to hear more people's opinions. Here are some changes I'd like people to discuss. Some of these have been suggested by other users, some of these are things I just want to hear opinions on.

Aromatisse rise to A/A- ?

Landorus-T drop to A+ ?

Venusaur-Mega drop to B+ ?

Hitmontop, drop or rise ?

Charizard-Y rise to S ?

And feel free to make other nominations as well, these are just some i'm interested in particular.

 

[Funbot28]

Been playing some triples for the first time and I honestly really enjoy it, here are my proposals:

MegaZard Y to S: One of the most powerful mons in the meta. Heat Wave completely destroys everything not Heatran, and EQ support from Lando-T can help it deal with its checks and counters. Good covergae options in Solarbeam and focu Blast, and is overall great top tier threat.

Ammongus to B+: I know redirection is a powerful strategy, but I don't find it being to great in this meta with the abundance of Talonflame, Mega Mence and Mega Zard everywhere. Still great mon, but the meta kinda is not in it's favor.

Mega Gardevoir to A: Kinda is a bit outclassed to Sylveon, but is faster and a bit more powerful (not then Choice Specs Sylveon however). Also has the option of running other things like Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, and Shadow Ball. Great overall mon.

Mega Gengar to A/A+: Even though a loath his Trappinf shenanigans, I have to admit it's quite powerful, and is deserving to rise thanks that it can trap and kill anuthing that is threatening to the rest of your team.

Will finish later

 

[NOVED]

Been playing some triples for the first time and I honestly really enjoy it, here are my proposals:

MegaZard Y to S: One of the most powerful mons in the meta. Heat Wave completely destroys everything not Heatran, and EQ support from Lando-T can help it deal with its checks and counters. Good covergae options in Solarbeam and focu Blast, and is overall great top tier threat.

Ammongus to B+: I know redirection is a powerful strategy, but I don't find it being to great in this meta with the abundance of Talonflame, Mega Mence and Mega Zard everywhere. Still great mon, but the meta kinda is not in it's favor.

Mega Gardevoir to A: Kinda is a bit outclassed to Sylveon, but is faster and a bit more powerful (not then Choice Specs Sylveon however). Also has the option of running other things like Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, and Shadow Ball. Great overall mon.

Mega Gengar to A/A+: Even though a loath his Trappinf shenanigans, I have to admit it's quite powerful, and is deserving to rise thanks that it can trap and kill anuthing that is threatening to the rest of your team.

Will finish later

Agreeing with most of this but still wanna see some opinions.

I like the idea of Zard Y in S cause it's easily the most threatening spread attacker in the game, i'm just not sure if its S rank material cause it has a lot of checks in A+, lando-t, terrakion, mega diancie, and kan & mence have decent matchups as well. But it definitely still shits on a lot of stuff & having weather is really nice, even if you're not abusing it with teammates, it improves your rain matchup a lot. I could see it going S.

Mega Gengar, I can see it going A but not A+. I dont think its A+ because while Shadow Tag is really good, it has to be in the center to work on all 3 mons. And since gar is kinda frail being in the center isnt the best thing. Plus with the perish song ban, it lost a lot of viability. But i think A sounds pretty solid.

 

[Derivatives]

I've actually decided I was going to say a few things about the viability rankings as I just skimmed through the list earlier. I'll add more while I look, but Landorus-Therian just confused me really.

Landorus-Therian to B- or C Rank

There are many reasons that I believe it should drop this much. First, there's the fact that its ability, Intimidate, can be deflected by the even more common Bisharp due to the high usage of Landorus-Therian as well as Mega Salamence and Hitmontop and Gyarados' viability (I think you see where I'm getting at with Bisharp as well, in my opinion it deserves an A+). In Doubles OU the only thing making this different is the lack of Gyarados, Hitmontop, and Salamence, resulting in less Bisharp viability, though Bisharp is still a great Pokemon there. There's also the fact that Intimidate really only gets a few of the Pokemon that are widely used on the Smogon Triples ladder according to the 1760 usage statistics.

Second, it isn't as viable as Landorus-Incarnate for a few reasons.

1. Landorus-Therian needs speed control unless it's holding a Choice Scarf. Sure, games are faster, and Tailwind or Trick Room would seemingly last for longer than usual, but there are less opportunities to set them up in Triples due to the intense speed of a game. Landorus-Incarnate doesn't need a Choice Scarf due to the fact that it already outspeeds Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Charizard Y, two common threats in the meta game.
2. Choice Scarf Landorus-Therian is pitiful. If you lock yourself into Earthquake (which is spread), you basically lock yourself into a move that can hit your own partners if they aren't Flying type/Levitators, but most of them stack weaknesses with Landorus-Therian and it would be better off with a partner that doesn't have the Flying type or Levitate really. They have to Protect in order to Earthquake, which seems simple enough. The catch? If they Protect the Pokemon you're trying to hit with the spread reduced Earthquake, you can't Earthquake a second time without A) hitting your own Pokemon, which can be bad depending on the situation (99% of the time you don't want to hit your partner), or B) by switching, which is difficult in this meta game due to the intense speed, and they could switch just as easily. All this time, both slots, your partner and your Landorus-Therian, are taking unwanted damage from major threats such as Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Charizard Y. Another small thing is that many Aegislash and Hitmontop carry Wide Guard which makes your Landorus-Therian pretty much walled by them (Hitmontop having Intimidate isn't fun for it either). Landorus-Incarnate doesn't have to worry about this problem, because it doesn't need to carry a Choice Scarf and it can safely switch between moves, assuming it's using a physical set. Special Landorus-Incarnate also have the option to hit Aegislash and others with a non spread Earth Power.
3. Landorus-Therian's base 145 Attack stat isn't all that due to the small movepool it gets physically, as many common Pokemon in Smogon Triples are able to resist most of its moves and Earthquake and Rock Slide are both completely blocked by Hitmontop and Aegislash. It's such an awful Pokemon in my eyes that something that is weak to one of its STABs can completely wall it.

Third and finally is that in Triples, you have two varying positions for your Pokemon to be on. The Side, where you have a partner and two enemies, and the Middle, where you have two partners and three enemies. I'd like to talk about how it does on the Side and Middle first.

On the Side, Landorus-Therian can do a few things. It can spread Rock Slide flinches to the two opponents it has, though this isn't enough to consider it a great Pokemon as Rock Slide isn't really that strong due to spread reduction and you aren't guaranteed to flinch/hit really. Earthquake is only worse, as you would have a reduced power Earthquake that makes you hit yourself and can be easily blocked by opposing Pokemon with Wide Guard and you can take unwanted damage in the process, making you lose what might be a needed Heatran or Talonflame check, while also either A) making your partners waste a turn using Protect, B) making your partners take unnecessary damage from Earthquake, or C) stack weakness with other Flying types/Levitators.

The Middle is only worse. Your Landorus-Therian is a dead-weight center of attention in the Middle, as it just 100% gets stopped by Wide Guard with its main attacking moves and takes any spread move damage from any spread move aside from Earthquake or Discharge.

I would like this Pokemon, Landorus-Therian, to drop down to possibly B- to C, because it's so easily checked compared to Pokemon in even B+ rank and does less good for a team than bad.
Sure, the ladder is a bad place to get statistics from especially for Smogon Triples as I have learned (Focus Sash Brave Bird Talonflame is apparently the most used Talonflame and Brick Break/Crunch are more used than Double-Edge on Kangaskhan), but they are also the only place I can really grab statistics from, and the Top 10 most used on the ladder correspond a great amount with the viability rankings.

Gothitelle to A Rank

Gothitelle's ability to trap opponents is just phenomonal in this meta game when you can take out the opponent very quickly, in a process I call "horde killing". The process of horde killing is having a few bulky yet fast attackers, such as Diancie, Metagross, or Salamence, to switch in while Gothitelle Protects, and let them wreak havoc on the Pokemon they just terribly want to bully, usually KOing two or even three of the opponent's Pokemon in just two turns. This is slightly weak to Bisharp, however, as it OHKOs Diancie on switchin, hits Metagross for supereffective damage with a priority Sucker Punch, and absorbs Mega Salamence's Intimidate very well, while dealing a heavy amount of damage to Gothitelle. Despite that, it also has access to a few other tricks, such as Trick Room, Competitive, and a STAB that demolishes Hitmontop in the form of Psyshock. It's an exceptional choice for counter teaming, as you can add five Pokemon that you know have a great time against a specific opponent and Gothitelle, and switch those five in whenever and wherever they are necessary. Its biggest counter and greatest enemy is Bisharp, the one thing that can just demolish a team in seconds if dealt with incorrectly, but it can be dealt with in a way by having Gothitelle trap it while something Bisharp dislikes switches in.

Bisharp to S

If you read the other two, you can probably already tell that I love Bisharp in this meta game. It is, in my opinion, the greatest Pokemon in Smogon Triples due to the high amount of Intimidate as well as a high amount of viable Dark and Steel weak Pokemon. If it were naturally faster I wouldn't be afraid to ask for a ban to be honest, it's just that amazing a Pokemon. It's really hard to Sucker Punch at +1 from Intimidate and not do more than 75% to a Pokemon, and after Tailwind is set up it can OHKO so much at +1 with Knock Off and Iron Head very easily. It doesn't switch well but that's not really a problem because it's a lead that stands to absorb Intimidate and Sucker Punch anything in its way.

Hitmontop to A+

Hitmontop is extremely versatile and there's no reason for it to be lower really. It easily stops opposing spread moves, provides Fake Out which is incredibly useful in this meta game, and it really does deserve an A+ purely because of that. It has amazing bulk too, and it, unlike Landorus-Therian, puts use to its ability Intimidate, giving itself good bulk to stay in longer and it can actually save the day against Bisharp.

 

[NOVED]

While I agree with some of these points, i think you really should not bring up usage statistics in ANY arguments ever. Similar to Doubles OU usage stats, triples usage stats are completely garbage, except more than twice as bad. With the kind of players on the trips ladder, just cause something has a lot of usage doesnt exactly mean its good.

 

[temp]

I think Pinsir-Mega should at least ranked here. It has access to a set up move, overall powerful attacks and priority. Now this priority includes Quick Attack and Feint. Feint is a big move in this metagame, ruining an opponent's Protect, Wide Guard or Quick Guard. After one Pokémon falls for the Feint, all of the others do so they aren't protected any longer. With STAB and the Aerliate ability, Feint's base power rises to 58.8. This is far from terrible when you have a +2 Pokémon on the field.

With that, I think Pinsir should either be ranked C+ or B- or at least somewhere on the viability rankings.

 

[NOVED]

I think Pinsir-Mega should at least ranked here. It has access to a set up move, overall powerful attacks and priority. Now this priority includes Quick Attack and Feint. Feint is a big move in this metagame, ruining an opponent's Protect, Wide Guard or Quick Guard. After one Pokémon falls for the Feint, all of the others do so they aren't protected any longer. With STAB and the Aerliate ability, Feint's base power rises to 58.8. This is far from terrible when you have a +2 Pokémon on the field.

With that, I think Pinsir should either be ranked C+ or B- or at least somewhere on the viability rankings.

Pinsir is definitely cool. I disagree with the whole +2 thing because I feel like against most teams, it's going to be near impossible for Pinsir to find an opportunity to get a free SD. But it's a strong mon and it's the only feint user to hit through Aegislash which is pretty big. I agree with C+. Bug/Flying is still a really shitty typing and hurts pinsir quite a bit with its already below average bulk.

 

[saPower1000]

I've been doing a bit of Triples myself, and I think Whimsicott should be B+
A Couple reasons for this: It can faint on turn 1 and still be the defining factor in winning. It has the fastest Taunt and Tailwind in the game, so it can Taunt other users before they can Taunt it, and getting up Tailwind turn 1 is a amazing boon for Special Mega-Mence and Bulky Mega Khan. It also gets Helping Hand, which with my experiences with The mons listed, as well as C ranked ones like Typhlosion, turns a lot of 2HKO's into 1HKO's. The 4x Poison and 2x Fire Weakness are a bit problematic, as well as its general lack of offensive presence, but it can screw up a good few common leads as well as often make sure that if you are facing a faster team, that you'll outspeed unless it's also a Tailwind team, in which case you just go for a Taunt. Still loses to Aromattise in the sense it can't get past the Veil with Taunt though.

It also gets access to Encore, so it can lock things into undesirable moves, like locking Aegislash into Wide Guard/Kings Shield and Mega Khan into Fake Out, forcing a switch.
Now I haven't tested out Memento/Charm/Confide just yet, but those seem like they could be useful. I'll report if it is or not once I do, though I'm already skeptical about confide..

But from what I do know, I still think it deserves to be bumped up, being one of the only Pokemon with access to a plethora of priority support moves, not limited to Encore, Taunt, Helping Hand, and Tailwind. It just has so much 1st turn Momentum Killing potential with the Utility it has.

 

[Ghoul King]

I think Pinsir-Mega should at least ranked here. It has access to a set up move, overall powerful attacks and priority. Now this priority includes Quick Attack and Feint. Feint is a big move in this metagame, ruining an opponent's Protect, Wide Guard or Quick Guard. After one Pokémon falls for the Feint, all of the others do so they aren't protected any longer. With STAB and the Aerliate ability, Feint's base power rises to 58.8. This is far from terrible when you have a +2 Pokémon on the field.

With that, I think Pinsir should either be ranked C+ or B- or at least somewhere on the viability rankings.

If you get the setup without Pinsir immediately fainting, having accomplished nothing, it's probably because your opponent has set up to Terracott sweep you or something to that effect.

If you're not carrying Wide Guard support, Mega Pinsir is prone to being OHKOed by Rock Slide. If you are carrying Wide Guard, it's still prone to dying horribly for a lot of other reasons. It eats your valuable Mega slot, and one of its biggest advantages in Singles -that it has all the coverage it needs on its own- isn't very useful in a meta where you have two teammates to handle that end for you. Fake Out is everywhere, and Mega Pinsir is perfectly susceptible to it. Stealth Rock and Sticky Web are still the primary hazards to ever get put up, and it hates both of them. It can't sweep an enemy team by itself, unless that team is hilariously Earthquake-vulnerable in which case there are other, better choices for that, like Excadrill with Sand support.

Mega Pinsir's Flying Feint is relevant, just because Wide Guard and Quick Guard are everywhere and huge, but at the same time you can usually just Feint something other than Aegislash if it is Aegislash using Wide Guard, so the obvious utility is actually fairly low. The main use I see for it is actually letting you finish off lone Protecting Ghosts, who are trying to survive the one extra turn they need for their allies to save them, and that's pretty niche.

Mega Pinsir really isn't that good in Triples.

I've been doing a bit of Triples myself, and I think Whimsicott should be B+
A Couple reasons for this: It can faint on turn 1 and still be the defining factor in winning. It has the fastest Taunt and Tailwind in the game, so it can Taunt other users before they can Taunt it, and getting up Tailwind turn 1 is a amazing boon for Special Mega-Mence and Bulky Mega Khan. It also gets Helping Hand, which with my experiences with The mons listed, as well as C ranked ones like Typhlosion, turns a lot of 2HKO's into 1HKO's. The 4x Poison and 2x Fire Weakness are a bit problematic, as well as its general lack of offensive presence, but it can screw up a good few common leads as well as often make sure that if you are facing a faster team, that you'll outspeed unless it's also a Tailwind team, in which case you just go for a Taunt. Still loses to Aromattise in the sense it can't get past the Veil with Taunt though.

It also gets access to Encore, so it can lock things into undesirable moves, like locking Aegislash into Wide Guard/Kings Shield and Mega Khan into Fake Out, forcing a switch.
Now I haven't tested out Memento/Charm/Confide just yet, but those seem like they could be useful. I'll report if it is or not once I do, though I'm already skeptical about confide..

But from what I do know, I still think it deserves to be bumped up, being one of the only Pokemon with access to a plethora of priority support moves, not limited to Encore, Taunt, Helping Hand, and Tailwind. It just has so much 1st turn Momentum Killing potential with the Utility it has.

Whimsicott should be high in the rankings just because it's part of Terracott and Terracott is king of Triples.

It doesn't actually have the fastest Tailwind in the game. That honor goes to Talonflame.

There are many reasons that I believe it should drop this much. First, there's the fact that its ability, Intimidate, can be deflected by the even more common Bisharp due to the high usage of Landorus-Therian as well as Mega Salamence and Hitmontop and Gyarados' viability (I think you see where I'm getting at with Bisharp as well, in my opinion it deserves an A+). In Doubles OU the only thing making this different is the lack of Gyarados, Hitmontop, and Salamence, resulting in less Bisharp viability, though Bisharp is still a great Pokemon there. There's also the fact that Intimidate really only gets a few of the Pokemon that are widely used on the Smogon Triples ladder according to the 1760 usage statistics.

Second, it isn't as viable as Landorus-Incarnate for a few reasons.

1. Landorus-Therian needs speed control unless it's holding a Choice Scarf. Sure, games are faster, and Tailwind or Trick Room would seemingly last for longer than usual, but there are less opportunities to set them up in Triples due to the intense speed of a game. Landorus-Incarnate doesn't need a Choice Scarf due to the fact that it already outspeeds Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Charizard Y, two common threats in the meta game.
2. Choice Scarf Landorus-Therian is pitiful. If you lock yourself into Earthquake (which is spread), you basically lock yourself into a move that can hit your own partners if they aren't Flying type/Levitators, but most of them stack weaknesses with Landorus-Therian and it would be better off with a partner that doesn't have the Flying type or Levitate really. They have to Protect in order to Earthquake, which seems simple enough. The catch? If they Protect the Pokemon you're trying to hit with the spread reduced Earthquake, you can't Earthquake a second time without A) hitting your own Pokemon, which can be bad depending on the situation (99% of the time you don't want to hit your partner), or B) by switching, which is difficult in this meta game due to the intense speed, and they could switch just as easily. All this time, both slots, your partner and your Landorus-Therian, are taking unwanted damage from major threats such as Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Charizard Y. Another small thing is that many Aegislash and Hitmontop carry Wide Guard which makes your Landorus-Therian pretty much walled by them (Hitmontop having Intimidate isn't fun for it either). Landorus-Incarnate doesn't have to worry about this problem, because it doesn't need to carry a Choice Scarf and it can safely switch between moves, assuming it's using a physical set. Special Landorus-Incarnate also have the option to hit Aegislash and others with a non spread Earth Power.
3. Landorus-Therian's base 145 Attack stat isn't all that due to the small movepool it gets physically, as many common Pokemon in Smogon Triples are able to resist most of its moves and Earthquake and Rock Slide are both completely blocked by Hitmontop and Aegislash. It's such an awful Pokemon in my eyes that something that is weak to one of its STABs can completely wall it.

Third and finally is that in Triples, you have two varying positions for your Pokemon to be on. The Side, where you have a partner and two enemies, and the Middle, where you have two partners and three enemies. I'd like to talk about how it does on the Side and Middle first.

On the Side, Landorus-Therian can do a few things. It can spread Rock Slide flinches to the two opponents it has, though this isn't enough to consider it a great Pokemon as Rock Slide isn't really that strong due to spread reduction and you aren't guaranteed to flinch/hit really. Earthquake is only worse, as you would have a reduced power Earthquake that makes you hit yourself and can be easily blocked by opposing Pokemon with Wide Guard and you can take unwanted damage in the process, making you lose what might be a needed Heatran or Talonflame check, while also either A) making your partners waste a turn using Protect, B) making your partners take unnecessary damage from Earthquake, or C) stack weakness with other Flying types/Levitators.

The Middle is only worse. Your Landorus-Therian is a dead-weight center of attention in the Middle, as it just 100% gets stopped by Wide Guard with its main attacking moves and takes any spread move damage from any spread move aside from Earthquake or Discharge.

I would like this Pokemon, Landorus-Therian, to drop down to possibly B- to C, because it's so easily checked compared to Pokemon in even B+ rank and does less good for a team than bad.
Sure, the ladder is a bad place to get statistics from especially for Smogon Triples as I have learned (Focus Sash Brave Bird Talonflame is apparently the most used Talonflame and Brick Break/Crunch are more used than Double-Edge on Kangaskhan), but they are also the only place I can really grab statistics from, and the Top 10 most used on the ladder correspond a great amount with the viability rankings.

Alluding to the fact that Hitomontop walls it while being vulnerable to one of its STABs is meaningless. It effectively doesn't have Flying STAB: Fly is it, and terrible. It's also no commentary on its general effectiveness anyway.

You're completely missing out on the single biggest thing Landorus-Therian brings to a team in Triples: U-Turn Intimidate. Staraptor and Masquerain are your other options, and far inferior. Landorus-Therian with a Scarf is actually quite impressive, and Bisharp being able to take advantage of its boosts isn't that impressive because Bisharp itself tends to fold to any one attack -it's weak to multiple spread moves, and even with Wide Guard support it has to fear stuff like Mach Punch. If you're providing Quick Guard support, you're back to the spread move problem. If you're doing both in the same turn, you're, what, hoping Bisharp can solo the enemy team? It's too fast to outslow Trick Room Pokemon, too slow to keep up with everybody else, and doesn't really benefit from any of the really amazing things uniquely effective in Triples like Gravity. Bisharp has uses, but it's not amazing, certainly not enough to make U-Turn Intimidate value-less or anti-value.

And in Triples Intimidate is basically like putting up Reflect, just by entering the battlefield. In both cases enemy Physical damage goes down by a third, and since Triples is fast and half the enemy team is on the field at any given moment, Reflect's advantage of persisting after switches is actually surprising minor -and you can stack Intimidates. U-Turning out also messes with Wide Guard assuming it can neutralize Landorus-Therian while getting in a different Pokemon.

Landorus-Therian isn't as good in Triples as it is in Doubles, due to Wide Guard being a lot more viable, but it's not bad by any stretch of the imagination.

Gothitelle's ability to trap opponents is just phenomonal in this meta game when you can take out the opponent very quickly, in a process I call "horde killing". The process of horde killing is having a few bulky yet fast attackers, such as Diancie, Metagross, or Salamence, to switch in while Gothitelle Protects, and let them wreak havoc on the Pokemon they just terribly want to bully, usually KOing two or even three of the opponent's Pokemon in just two turns. This is slightly weak to Bisharp, however, as it OHKOs Diancie on switchin, hits Metagross for supereffective damage with a priority Sucker Punch, and absorbs Mega Salamence's Intimidate very well, while dealing a heavy amount of damage to Gothitelle. Despite that, it also has access to a few other tricks, such as Trick Room, Competitive, and a STAB that demolishes Hitmontop in the form of Psyshock. It's an exceptional choice for counter teaming, as you can add five Pokemon that you know have a great time against a specific opponent and Gothitelle, and switch those five in whenever and wherever they are necessary. Its biggest counter and greatest enemy is Bisharp, the one thing that can just demolish a team in seconds if dealt with incorrectly, but it can be dealt with in a way by having Gothitelle trap it while something Bisharp dislikes switches in.

Trapping is incredibly weak in Triples. Switching almost never happens anyway in Triples, except in the form of U-Turning out, Volt Switching out, or Baton Passing out for specific strategies, all of which laugh at Shadow Tag, because switching is just far, far too dangerous, liable to cost you a Pokemon rather than save your Pokemon. Gothitelle itself essentially adds nothing to your team at that point -it's a bulky Psychic type that isn't that fast, which is nothing unique and the other slow bulky Psychic types out there actually do useful things like, you know, kill enemies, or Burn them, or set Trick Room fairly reliably.

If you read the other two, you can probably already tell that I love Bisharp in this meta game. It is, in my opinion, the greatest Pokemon in Smogon Triples due to the high amount of Intimidate as well as a high amount of viable Dark and Steel weak Pokemon. If it were naturally faster I wouldn't be afraid to ask for a ban to be honest, it's just that amazing a Pokemon. It's really hard to Sucker Punch at +1 from Intimidate and not do more than 75% to a Pokemon, and after Tailwind is set up it can OHKO so much at +1 with Knock Off and Iron Head very easily. It doesn't switch well but that's not really a problem because it's a lead that stands to absorb Intimidate and Sucker Punch anything in its way.

Bisharp is tricky to use because if you're not Sucker Punching something successfully, you're probably functionally useless, and a lot of amazing teams open up with arranging teamwide benefits or ridiculous supersweepers like Terracott. (Which Bisharp is completely useless in the face of) It also hates the omnipresent Hitmontop, which is an incredible choice all around. I can see why people like Bisharp in Triples, but I'm not all that fond of it, especially since most Triples teams don't have clerics, which makes it incredibly vulnerable to stuff like being Will O Wisped by Sableye.

Hitmontop is extremely versatile and there's no reason for it to be lower really. It easily stops opposing spread moves, provides Fake Out which is incredibly useful in this meta game, and it really does deserve an A+ purely because of that. It has amazing bulk too, and it, unlike Landorus-Therian, puts use to its ability Intimidate, giving itself good bulk to stay in longer and it can actually save the day against Bisharp.

I'd seriously consider S-rank for it, honestly. It's ridiculous, a general toolbox for literally any team. It's more or less literally "any team is made better by adding it".

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

So I'm new to the Triples metagame, and I want to use Raichu. any ideas on a team I could use?

 

[NOVED]

So I'm new to the Triples metagame, and I want to use Raichu. any ideas on a team I could use?

Hey man, for future reference, it'd be better to post general questions for triples like yours in this thread or the Q and A thread that's sticked in the forum. But with raichu, its hard to say cause you dont really build teams based around raichu, raichu is usually something you use to support a team and normally slapped on towards the end of a teambuilding process, rather than the beginning. But raichu is cool with fake out and feint. So with feint, you want to use it paired with pokemon that use spread attacks like sylveon's hyper voice, charizard y's heat wave, etc. feint will break the very common wide guard for them. Also, you generally should be using raichu to support pokemon weak to electric, making good use of its ability Lightningrod.

 

[Flamedood]

So a mon I've been using lately and have been pretty impressed with is Wartortle- it actually has incredible bulk with eviolite and is, in my opinion one of the best redirectors for a few reasons-
1. it can't be bypassed by safety goggles and grass types like Amoonguss and Volcorona
2. It isn't weak to Bullet punch like Clefairy and Togekiss
3. It actually has incredible bulk, even more so than a bold max/max Jirachi, if that is your follow me user of choice.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Wartortle: 130-154 (40.3 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Wartortle: 175-207 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(This is a neutral Adamant Double Edge!)
252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Wartortle: 230-272 (71.4 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Unlike Jirachi, it is also neutral/ resists 2 of the most common spread moves in the game, Earthquake and Heat Wave.

I have found Wartortle so effective as it synergises so well with the top mons in Triples, tanking Steel type moves for Sylveon and Gardevoir, Fighting and water type moves for Terrakion, Ice moves for Dragons and Landorus, etc etc. Wartortle is amazing with Terracott, tanking brave birds and other priority that threatens Whimsicott and Terrakion.

Atm I'm only running an unoptimized set of Bold 252 hp/ 252 def/ 4 Sp def, although it can obviously be tailored for your own needs.
As for other support moves although he is rather limited, he gets scald/ water pulse to fish for hax, icy wind for speed control, ice beam to chunk 4x ice weak mons and brick break to break screens. I've also been trialing water pledge with a pledge team I've been using, and paired with fire pledge, scald has like 60% chance to burn and rock slide is just evil.

Unfortunately it's offensive presence is lacking and it is a bit of a one trick pony, however this pony is tough to take down without allowing you to first set up/ take out their major threats. Personally I'd shoot for C+/B-, as he is on par/ if not better than Clefairy despite not having access to Friend Guard.

Anyway, I'll try and record some replays and post if i have time, but otherwise I highly encourage everyone to give him a go and decide for yourself :)

 

[temp]

I'd like to nominate Swoobat for C to C- Rank.

Swoobat is more than it seems. With a set of:

Swoobat @ Focus Sash / Mental Herb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Skill Swap
- Helping Hand
- Air Slash / Psyshock
- Taunt

It can function as a great support Pokemon. It can Skill Swap Pokemon, really crippling them. It can also be used to support your own teammates. You can Skill Swap the Simple ability to a set up sweeper like Volcarona. It also has access to Helping Hand, which can easily boost your teammates' attacks. This is especially useful when you Helping Hand onto the set up sweeper that you Skill Swapped Simple to. It should run some sort of attack, be it STAB or some form of coverage. Taunt to annoy Trick Room, opposing set up sweepers, wide guard / quick guard users, etc.. It also has the good speed tier, so it'll be able to outrun

The reason I nominated it for C to C- Rank is because it doesn't work all of the time. In fact, it's a bit of a gimmick. Swoobat is also rather weak, but that's the thing with support mons mostly. It is also very, very frail—meaning it'll take lots of damage from certain attacks and usually get OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by them.

Some other cool things: you can Skill Swap Huge Power away from Mega Mawile, Parental Bond from Mega Kangaskhan, Lightning Rod / Volt Absorb from Manectric / Mega Sceptile / Thundy-T (this really helps vs. those gimmicky Discharge teams) and many more things.

 

[Flamedood]

I'd like to nominate Swoobat for C Rank.

Swoobat is more than it seems. With a set of:

Swoobat @ Focus Sash / Mental Herb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Skill Swap
- Helping Hand
- Air Slash / Psyshock
- Taunt

It can function as a great support Pokemon. It can Skill Swap Pokemon, really crippling them. It can also be used to support your own teammates. You can Skill Swap the Simple ability to a set up sweeper like Volcarona. It also has access to Helping Hand, which can easily boost your teammates' attacks. This is especially useful when you Helping Hand onto the set up sweeper that you Skill Swapped Simple to. It should run some sort of attack, be it STAB or some form of coverage. Taunt to annoy Trick Room, opposing set up sweepers, wide guard / quick guard users, etc.. It also has the good speed tier, so it'll be able to outrun

The reason I nominated it for C Rank is because it doesn't work all of the time. In fact, it's a bit of a gimmick. Swoobat is also rather weak, but that's the thing with support mons mostly. It is also very, very frail—meaning it'll take lots of damage from certain attacks and usually get OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by them.

Some other cool things: you can Skill Swap Huge Power away from Mega Mawile, Parental Bond from Mega Kangaskhan, Lightning Rod / Volt Absorb from Manectric / Mega Sceptile / Thundy-T (this really helps vs. those gimmicky Discharge teams) and many more things.

So this 100% needs protect as

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 168-199 (61 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The thing that I think has the most consistency on this set is taunt- most people we see swoobat and expect simple skill swap shenanigans and double up on it or its obvious receiver; helping hand is always cool but it's so incredibly fragile that this job is better left to a Mon with some bulk that can last on the field more than one turn. Air Slash and Psyshock is pitifully weak and there isn't really any relevant mons that it can hit 4x effective to compensate.

Taunt is cool because of its speed tier and the fact it can't be blocked by quick guard, but whether this niche deserves ranking? Idk.. I think I'll hold off until other people's discussion before seconding this

 

[LagAvenger]

I'd like to suggest Slowking for B-, with a little support from the likes of follow me, friend guard, or fake out to buy it time and a kee berry, calm mind/slack off sets can rapidly make it tough to kill in only a couple of turns. Oblivious blocks anyone trying to stop it with taunt. I saw someone try to hit it with a giga drain from M-Abomasnow using my hail sample team and at +1 SpD it only did 26% damage with friend guard support. However, its offensive typing requires dual stabs or you can get walled pretty easily, either by any dark type or water absorb rain teams, so you can't pick up yawn or much other utility, which is a weakness.

 

[Flamedood]

I'd like to suggest Slowking for B-, with a little support from the likes of follow me, friend guard, or fake out to buy it time and a kee berry, calm mind/slack off sets can rapidly make it tough to kill in only a couple of turns. Oblivious blocks anyone trying to stop it with taunt. I saw someone try to hit it with a giga drain from M-Abomasnow using my hail sample team and at +1 SpD it only did 26% damage with friend guard support. However, its offensive typing requires dual stabs or you can get walled pretty easily, either by any dark type or water absorb rain teams, so you can't pick up yawn or much other utility, which is a weakness.

I think b- is way too high for slowking, putting it above mons such as mega lucario and landorus I... I do think it deserves a rank though, maybe in c or c-. Slowkings other strong niche is oblivious trick room, which with either quick guard or intimidate support can be a relatively reliable setter. But yeah, b-is too high

 

[LagAvenger]

I can't speak for Landorus-I's ranking since i've never used it and rarely see it, but I don't really understand why mega lucario is only c+ or why regular lucario isn't on the list at all, it can ignore fake outs on the first turn with inner focus, has a typing that laughs at Rock Slide and can also boost itself to throw out its own Rock Slides if necessary, and you can surprise people if you go justified and throw in an unusual beat up user next to it. The only drawback is that you can't use other megas, but regular lucario is still no joke. I haven't used it in triples though, only Slowking, which is why I only commented on it instead of other rankings.

 

[Flamedood]

I think the issue here is more the fact that the viability rankings are completely dead. (Not that I think that slowking is b- worthy) but yeah, they haven't been updated in 8 months