VGC 18 Snorlax

Darkmalice

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Bright Size's original analysis. This is an updated continuation of it, where it already received one QC check.



[OVERVIEW]

* With a low base speed of 30, Snorlax functions very well under Trick Room as one of the slowest Pokemon in VGC. Snorlax notably speed ties with Amoonguss. It functions well both as a Trick Room sweeper and against opposing Trick Room teams.

* With base defenses of 160/65/110, and the combination of Gluttony, Wiki Berry, and Recycle, it is very bulky and often requires a lot of effort to KO. Though its lower Defense can be abused, it can be mitigated somewhat by supporting Snorlax with an Intimidate user like Landorus-Therian or Incineroar.

* Can either threaten OHKOs on most of the metagame after a single Belly Drum, or opt for a slower boosting but harder to take down set utilising Curse, often letting Snorlax function as a team's win condition.

* Many teams have moves that hinder set-up sweepers (including Snorlax) from setting up such as Taunt, Haze, Roar, or Clear Smog, or Knock Off which removes Snorlax's Berry and renders Recycle useless. Due to this, and its low Speed, it often needs support such as Trick Room, Fake Out and/or redirection moves to truly shine.

* Snorlax is reliant on a coverage move such as High Horsepower or Fire Punch to break through specific Pokemon, most notably Ghost type Pokemon such as Aegislash. The choice of coverage move (or lack of) can lead it to being checked by certain Pokemon, such as Kartana and Drifblim without Fire Punch, and Tyranitar and Heatran without High Horsepower.

[SET]
Name: DrumLax
Move 1: Belly Drum
Move 2: Return
Move 3: High Horsepower / Fire Punch / Recycle
Move 4: Protect / Recycle
Item: Wiki Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 228 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def / 20 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Belly Drum lets Snorlax OHKO most of the metagame after a boost. Return is the basic STAB move that Snorlax will be attacking with a majority of the time. High Horsepower and Fire Punch hit the Ghost types that it otherwise wouldn't like Mega Gengar and Aegislash and OHKO many Pokemon that resist its Normal STAB at +6 like Mega Metagross. After Belly Drum, High Horsepower OHKOes Tyranitar and even Shuca Berry Heatran, whilst Fire Punch OHKOes Drifblim, non-Sash Kartana, Celesteela, and Ferrothorn. High Horsepower is generally preferred over Fire Punch as it has better neutral coverage alongside Return.

* Protect is a strong option to allow Snorlax to stall either while a teammate sets Trick Room or sets up board position, or for protection against a predicted Z-move. Typically Protect should not be dropped in most cases unless you have redirection and Fake Out support to help set up Snorlax. Recycle, bringing back Wiki Berry, effectively functions as a 50% HP recovery move, and can be used to take advantage of opposing passive play or when both the opposing Pokemon do little to threaten Snorlax.

* The combination of Wiki Berry and Gluttony enables Snorlax to immediately regain the 50% HP lost from using Belly Drum, preserving its bulk. Wiki Berry is chosen over other 50%-healing berries to confuse potential Adamant Bug Bite users like Mega Scizor.

* The EVs and nature focus on Snorlax's weaker physical bulk whilst providing an even HP number so that Wiki Berry activates after using Belly Drum and ensuring that Tapu Lele's Shattered Psyche cannot OHKO in Psychic Terrain. Even with only 4 Atk EVs, Snorlax will OHKO all but the bulkiest of Pokemon and those that resist its STAB - in fact, 252 HP / 4 Def Cresselia has a 62.5% chance to be OHKOed by Return! Minimum speed makes Snorlax faster under Trick Room.

* Snorlax can either switch in on weak hits or after a KO, or alternatively be used as a lead. It should only use Belly Drum if the user feels confident it can then sweep the opposing team (usually mid-late game); otherwise it is safer to either deal chip damage to the opponent with its attacking moves, or switch it out and attempt to sweep later.

* Strong teammates including Trick Room settlers such as Cresselia, Gothitelle, or Mimikyu for speed support, Intimidate users such as Landorus-Therian, Incineroar, and Mega Manetric to mitigate its weaker defense stat, Fake Out or redirection users such as Incineroar, Amoonguss, and Clefairy to help set up, and Tapu Fini to provide status protection through Misty Terrain.


[SET]
Name: CurseLax
Move 1: Curse
Move 2: Double-Edge / Return
Move 3: High Horsepower / Fire Punch
Move 4: Recycle
Item: Wiki Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Nature: Brave
EVs: 68 HP / 188 Atk / 252 Def
IVs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Curse Snorlax requires less support from the rest of the team than Drumlax, as it does not sacrifice its HP to boost its Attack and also boosts its Defense in the process. However, it is more susceptible to opponent's Intimidate lowers its Attack stat, and may need multiple boosts before it has sufficient Attack to sweep your opponent. This set trades power for not having to be as committed to setting up as Belly Drum Snorlax.

* Double-Edge is preferred over Return for the higher damage. With Curse boosting Def without cutting its HP, the recoil isn't as harmful as on a Drumlax set. Return is still viable as a non-recoil STAB, however. High Horsepower and Fire Punch both offer useful coverage against Pokemon that resist or are immune to your STAB move. High Horsepower is generally preferred over Fire Punch as it deals more damage against opponents weak to both moves like Mega Metagross. High Horsepower is better against Mega Gengar, Tyranitar, and Heatran, whilst Fire Punch is better against Kartana, Celesteela, and Drifblim. Recycle takes advantage of the Defense boosts and helps Snorlax set up multiple Curses.

* The EVs enable Double Edge to 2HKO 236 HP / 116 Def Zapdos 98.4% of the time without a Curse boost and then maximise Snorlax's weaker defense stat. Curselax does not need to run as much Def investment as Drumlax because Curse boosts its Def, allowing for more Attack investment. Minimum Speed is preferred to make Snorlax as slow as possible under Trick Room.

* Gluttony and Wiki Berry enable an automatic 50% HP recovery when Snorlax loses half its HP, which can be reactivated with Recycle.

* Snorlax should attempt to sweep mid-lategame when its threats are weakened or removed, either after a free switch or switching it into a weak attack like say Cresselia's Ice Beam. Afterwards it should usually set up Curse once or twice to boost its stats before attempting to sweep, using Recycle as needed after Wiki Berry has been used to bring it back.

* This Snorlax requires less team support than Belly Drum Snorlax. However it still benefits from Trick Room settlers such as Cresselia and Gothitelle, and Tapu Fini whom protects Snorlax from status with Misty Terrain, in particular burn and poison. Incineroar threatens Kartana who can bypass Snorlax's Curse boosts with Sacred Sword and switch into Tapu Lele's Shattered Psyche (which in Psychic Terrain threatens a OHKO on Snorlax), whilst providing Fake Out and Intimidate support to help Snorlax set up.
 
Last edited:
give an odd HP number so that Wiki Berry activates after using Belly Drum
Guessing this was supposed to say even.

228HP / 4Atk / 252Def / 20SpD gives the Belly Drum set a 100% chance to survive the Lele Z-move, at the cost of only a small amount of HP which didn't seem to significantly impact any other calcs I could find.
 

Darkmalice

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Guessing this was supposed to say even.

228HP / 4Atk / 252Def / 20SpD gives the Belly Drum set a 100% chance to survive the Lele Z-move, at the cost of only a small amount of HP which didn't seem to significantly impact any other calcs I could find.
Yes you're right - it's meant to say even.

Can't think of any calcs either. It also improves overall bulk since Snorlax's HP is so high. I updated it with your spread - thanks for the suggestion!
 

Lumari

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dunno how much of a purpose this one serves still but also a waste at this point not to get it on-site, sooo

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/1
[OVERVIEW]

* With a low base Speed of 30 that makes it one of the slowest Pokemon in VGC, Snorlax functions very well under Trick Room as one of the slowest Pokemon in VGC. Snorlax notably speed ties with Amoonguss. It functions well both as a Trick Room sweeper and against opposing Trick Room teams. It notoably Speed ties with Amoonguss.

* With base defenses of 160 / 65 / 110 (RC) and the combination of Gluttony, Wiki Berry, and Recycle, it is very bulky and often requires a lot of effort to KO. Though its lower Defense can be abused, it exploited, it can be mitigated somewhat by supporting Snorlax with an Intimidate user like Landorus-Therian or Incineroar.

* Snorlax can either threaten OHKOs on most of the metagame after a single Belly Drum (RC) or opt for a slower boosting but harder to take down set utilising utilizing Curse, often letting Snorlax function as a team's win condition wincon.

* Many teams have moves that hinder set-up prevent setup sweepers (including Snorlax) from setting up, (AC) such as Taunt, Haze, Roar, or and Clear Smog, or Knock Off, (AC) which removes Snorlax's Berry and renders Recycle useless. Due to this, and its low Speed, it Snorlax often needs support such as Trick Room, Fake Out and/or redirection moves to truly shine.

* Snorlax is reliant on a coverage move such as High Horsepower or Fire Punch to break through specific Pokemon, most notably Ghost-type (AH) Pokemon such as Aegislash. The choice of coverage move (or lack thereof) can lead it to being checked by certain Pokemon, such as Kartana and Drifblim without Fire Punch (RC) and Tyranitar and Heatran without High Horsepower.

[SET]
name: DrumLax
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Return
move 3: High Horsepower / Fire Punch / Recycle
move 4: Protect / Recycle
item: Wiki Berry
ability: Gluttony
nature: Relaxed
evs: 228 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def / 20 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Belly Drum lets Snorlax OHKO most of the metagame after a boost. Return is the basic STAB move that Snorlax will be attacking with a majority of the time. High Horsepower and Fire Punch hit the Ghost-types (AH) that it otherwise wouldn't be able to touch like Mega Gengar and Aegislash and OHKO many Pokemon that resist its Normal STAB attacks at +6 like Mega Metagross. After Belly Drum, High Horsepower OHKOes Tyranitar and even Shuca Berry Heatran, whilst Fire Punch OHKOes Drifblim, non-Focus Sash Kartana, Celesteela, and Ferrothorn. High Horsepower is generally preferred over Fire Punch, (AC) as it has better neutral coverage alongside Return.

* Protect is a strong option to allow Snorlax to stall either while a teammate either sets Trick Room or sets up board position (RC) or for protection against a predicted Z-Move. Typically Protect should not be dropped in most cases unless you have redirection and Fake Out support to help set up Snorlax. Recycle, bringing back Wiki Berry, effectively functions as a 50% HP recovery move (RC) and can be used to take advantage of opposing passive play or when both the opposing Pokemon do little to threaten Snorlax.

* The combination of Wiki Berry and Gluttony enables Snorlax to immediately regain the 50% HP lost from using Belly Drum, preserving its bulk. Wiki Berry is chosen over other 50%-healing Berries to confuse potential Adamant Bug Bite users like Mega Scizor.

* The EVs and nature focus on Snorlax's weaker physical bulk whilst providing an even HP number so that Wiki Berry activates after using Belly Drum and ensuring that Tapu Lele's Shattered Psyche cannot OHKO Snorlax in Psychic Terrain. Even with only 4 Atk Attack EVs, Snorlax will OHKO all but the bulkiest of Pokemon and those that resist its STAB attacks—in fact, 252 HP / 4 Def Cresselia has a 62.5% chance to be OHKOed by Return! Minimum Speed makes Snorlax faster under Trick Room.

* Snorlax can either switch in either on weak hits or after a KO, or alternatively it can be used as a lead. It should only use Belly Drum if the user feels confident it can then sweep the opposing team (usually mid- or late-game); (AH) otherwise, (AC) it is safer to either deal chip damage to the opponent with its attacking moves (RC) or switch it out and attempt to sweep later.

* Strong teammates including Trick Room settlers setters such as Cresselia, Gothitelle, or and Mimikyu for speed support control, Intimidate users such as Landorus-Therian, Incineroar, and Mega Manetric Manectric to mitigate its weaker Defense stat, Fake Out or redirection users such as Incineroar, Amoonguss, and Clefairy to help set up, and Tapu Fini to provide status protection through Misty Terrain.


[SET]
name: CurseLax
move 1: Curse
move 2: Double-Edge / Return
move 3: High Horsepower / Fire Punch
move 4: Recycle
item: Wiki Berry
ability: Gluttony
nature: Brave
evs: 68 HP / 188 Atk / 252 Def
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Curse Snorlax requires less support from the rest of the team than DrumLax, (technically cross-set referencing, guess I don't care much about it though bc this one won't receive any on-site updates) as it does not sacrifice its HP to boost its Attack and also boosts its Defense in the process. However, it is more susceptible to opponent's opposing Pokemon's Intimidate lowers lowering its Attack stat (RC) and may need multiple boosts before it has sufficient Attack to sweep your opponent. This set trades power for not having to be as committed to setting up as Belly Drum Snorlax.

* Double-Edge is preferred over Return for the higher damage. With Curse boosting Defense without cutting its Snorlax's HP, the recoil isn't as harmful as on a DrumLax set. Return is still viable as a non-recoil STAB attack, however. High Horsepower and Fire Punch both offer useful coverage against Pokemon that resist or are immune to your Snorlax's STAB move. High Horsepower is generally preferred over Fire Punch, (AC) as it deals more damage against opponents targets weak to both moves like Mega Metagross. High Horsepower is better against Mega Gengar, Tyranitar, and Heatran, whilst Fire Punch is better against Kartana, Celesteela, and Drifblim. Recycle takes advantage of the Defense boosts and helps Snorlax set up multiple Curses.

* The EVs enable give Double-Edge (AH) to a near-guaranteed 2HKO on 236 HP / 116 Def Zapdos 98.4% of the time (percentage feels pointless here) without a Curse boost and then maximise Snorlax's maximize its weaker Defense stat. Curselax does not need to run as much Defense investment as DrumLax because of Curse boosts its Def, allowing for enabling more Attack investment. Minimum Speed is preferred to make Snorlax as slow as possible under Trick Room.

* Gluttony and Wiki Berry enable an automatic 50% HP recovery when Snorlax loses half its HP, which can be reactivated with Recycle.

* Snorlax should attempt to sweep mid- to late-game (AH) when its threats are have been weakened or removed, coming in either after a free switch or switching it into on a weak attack like say Cresselia's Ice Beam. Afterwards it should usually set up Curse once or twice to boost its stats before attempting to sweep, using Recycle as needed after Wiki Berry has been used to bring it back.

* This Snorlax requires less team support than Belly Drum Snorlax. However, (AC) it still benefits from Trick Room settlers setters such as Cresselia and Gothitelle, and Tapu Fini, (AC) whom which protects Snorlax from status with Misty Terrain, in particular burn and poison. Incineroar threatens Kartana, (AC) who which can bypass Snorlax's Curse boosts with Sacred Sword, (AC) and can switch into Tapu Lele's Shattered Psyche (which in Psychic Terrain threatens a OHKO on Snorlax), whilst providing Fake Out and Intimidate support to help Snorlax set up.
 

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