Gen 1 Snorlax [QC 2/2, GP 1/2]

Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
[OVERVIEW]

Snorlax is a centerpiece of the RBY metagame. It is present on almost every team due to its incredible strength, bulk, and versatility, in spite of its terrible Speed. Its Body Slam is incredibly difficult to switch into, and on top of that, Snorlax itself is one of the best switch-ins against it, which results in most early-game scenarios revolving around Snorlax on both sides of the field. Snorlax is one of the biggest offensive threats and one of the hardest Pokemon to KO at the same time, which means it's usually hard to find reasons not to run Snorlax on your team.

[SET]
name: Reflect
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Ice Beam / Self-Destruct / Hyper Beam / Earthquake

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Snorlax's Body Slam is one of the most difficult attacks to switch into in the tier due to its sheer power, paralysis chance, and the relative lack of Normal-type switch-ins in the tier. Reflect allows Snorlax to take on physical attackers, most importantly opposing Snorlax, much more comfortably. Rest gives Snorlax the ability to remain healthy throughout the game. A lot of moves can fit in the last moveslot. The most common one is Ice Beam, as it allows Snorlax to to potentially freeze opposing Reflect users, which can otherwise neutralize Snorlax's Body Slam; however, this leaves Snorlax unable to threaten large amounts of damage in one turn, which means its matchup against many important Pokemon such as Exeggutor, Zapdos, Cloyster, and Lapras goes from bad to worse, and even its ability to power through a paralyzed Starmie or Chansey goes down significantly. Self-Destruct allows Snorlax to function as a wallbreaker if needed, as well as a defensive piece thanks to Reflect and Rest if preferred, while Hyper Beam provides some of Self-Destruct's wallbreaking power without you having to sacrifice your Snorlax for it; however, a Snorlax that is only carrying Normal-type attacks will struggle against Rock-types and will be entirely unable to damage Ghost-types. Lastly, although Earthquake doesn't provide the freeze threat of Ice Beam or the immediate power of the other moves, it allows Snorlax to beat Gengar and Counter Chansey, two Pokemon that, albeit rare, are usually specifically devised to beat it.

Using Reflect Snorlax is particularly nuanced due to having to balance Snorlax as both an offensive and defensive tool. If used too aggressively, it might take a KO but subsequently struggle to find turns to heal back up with Rest, making it a trade that is not always worth taking. On the other hand, if used too passively, it will invite too much offensive pressure and eventually collapse without achieving much of anything. Optimal usage of Reflect Snorlax requires careful analysis of the game state as well as appropriate prediction, but when properly managed, it is incredibly potent, as the special attackers that can threaten it lack either recovery or physical bulk, meaning that teams will generally resort to various stalling tactics to force Snorlax to use Rest first and then pressure it during its sleep turns. Reflect Snorlax is at its best early-game when the opponent has one or more paralyzed Pokemon to take advantage of, most commonly Alakazam and Chansey, and when its teammates can offer the necessary defensive cover against special attackers, but it is no slouch late-game either, as it can trade one-for-one with most Pokemon and has an important positive matchup against Tauros.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Hyper Beam / Counter
move 3: Self-Destruct
move 4: Earthquake / Counter

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

This moveset is fairly straightforward: maximize offensive power to wallbreak as well as possible. Body Slam is the go-to attack to inflict damage, and the combination of it with Hyper Beam makes Snorlax particularly dangerous and hard to switch into, especially for paralyzed foes. Self-Destruct is an incredibly potent move to take down an extra Pokemon with Snorlax's last breath or even to take opponents by surprise earlier on if the situation calls for it. The last moveslot is a toss-up: Earthquake allows Snorlax to play around Counter Chansey much more comfortably, as well as hitting Gengar and threatening Rhydon, but it can be dropped in favor of Counter, a tool that allows this Snorlax set to muscle through an opponent's Reflect Snorlax with correct prediction. Counter may also be used in conjunction with Earthquake and in place of Hyper Beam; the lack of Hyper Beam is quite noticeable, as it makes Snorlax much less threatening as a wallbreaker, but Earthquake offers better coverage that could be worth keeping for specific matchups.

The absence of recovery on this Snorlax set makes it far riskier to utilize, as it can only take a few hits before being forced to use Self-Destruct. Therefore, this Snorlax set needs to be considered as a tool to accelerate the game and little else, as its defensive capabilities are very limited. This often just means using an early-game Self-Destruct on the opponent's Reflect user to remove them from the situation before they get a chance to set up Reflect. It must be noted that this is a one-for-one trade, which is not always advantageous, but it is often the best that can be achieved with this set, as it is often endlessly walled by Reflect users otherwise; recognizing when to be greedy and when to accept a simple Self-Destruct trade is key to achieving good results with this Snorlax set.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Blizzard / Ice Beam
move 3: Amnesia
move 4: Rest / Self-Destruct

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Body Slam is the main attack to create pressure on the opposition and hopefully bait in Reflect Snorlax, which this set can take advantage of thanks to the combination of Amnesia and Blizzard. The last move defines the type of game you want to play with this set: Self-Destruct means hard and fast wallbreaking, as Snorlax simply doesn't have the durability to set up Amnesia multiple times throughout the game, while Rest gives Snorlax those opportunities to set up but leaves it notably vulnerable to Tauros. Ice Beam is an option over Blizzard for the higher PP, which is especially relevant on Rest sets, but Blizzard's considerably stronger damage output is generally preferred.

This set is quite dangerous to play against due to how difficult it is to answer if your Chansey is paralyzed. Nearly every other common Pokemon is threatened by either Body Slam or a boosted Blizzard, with Water-types like Starmie and Lapras being the best answers defensively but struggling to deal significant damage in return thanks to the Special boost. However, a healthy Chansey usually has no issues switching in and walling this Snorlax variant until it's forced to use Rest, which, in turn, leaves it vulnerable against Tauros. The conditions for this set to excel are difficult to set up, but when they are achieved, this Snorlax set can decide games on its own.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Snorlax can drop Body Slam entirely to run an Ice Beam / Reflect / Amnesia / Rest set that simply aims to soak up damage and spam Ice Beam until it manages to freeze a foe, but it generally needs to be on very specific types of teams to function, is completely helpless against Ice-types, and needs some luck to break through paralyzed Starmie and Chansey, as Ice Beam's PP is only 16, so Snorlax cannot fish for consecutive paralysis for long.

Surf is the best option available to Snorlax to hit Rhydon and Golem, but given that most Snorlax sets run either Reflect or an Ice-type attack, if not both, the situations where Surf is useful are rare.

Harden is sometimes preferred over Reflect for the higher PP count and ability to reapply the Speed drop on paralyzed foes, but it is considerably weaker at answering physical attackers, which is usually the primary duty of Reflect Snorlax.

Another unusual set is Amnesia / Blizzard / Thunderbolt / Self-Destruct or Rest: given that Starmie is a common switch-in once Amnesia is revealed and that Thunderbolt is a very, very uncommon attack on Snorlax, this set can attempt to lure it in and cripple it with a strong Thunderbolt. However, it struggles incredibly against Chansey and Alakazam. Self-Destruct is preferred as an emergency option that allows Snorlax to bail out of those matchups with an even trade, but it is possible to use Rest instead in an attempt to preserve Snorlax as a long-term defensive answer.

Body Slam / Reflect / Rest sets can afford a few more options in the fourth moveslot. Toxic can allow partial trappers such as Cloyster, Moltres, Victreebel, and Dragonite to be significantly more dangerous, as any poisoned Pokemon attempting to stall out their PP will run out of HP much more quickly, and Snorlax is particularly good at luring in optimal Toxic targets such as Reflect Chansey. Another move that can fill that slot is Amnesia, making Snorlax incredibly difficult to threaten via special attacks alone but ultimately leaving it relatively powerless, with Body Slam as its only attack. Counter is also viable, as after Reflect has been revealed, opponents will most likely stop playing around Counter, giving you some opportunities to net surprise KOs with it.

Other Normal-type attacks such as Mega Kick and Double-Edge are rarely seen due to their drawbacks and overall lack of usefulness when Body Slam is such a reliable move and Hyper Beam is a much stronger one, but the ability to repeatedly hit with a stronger Base Power can occasionally come in handy.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Reflect Users**: Reflect users, particularly Chansey and opposing Snorlax, can switch in on Body Slam and neutralize the damage output from Snorlax fairly efficiently. They are by far the most reliable defensive answers to Snorlax and a vast majority of RBY teams are forced to include one of the two, if not both, to check it.

**Gengar**: Gengar deserves a special mention due to its unique Ghost typing, which allows it to wall all Snorlax sets that lack Earthquake and use Snorlax as an opportunity to threaten either status with Hypnosis or damage with Thunderbolt. It is especially useful against Snorlax sets that only run Normal-type attacks, but it also performs well against any set that lacks Earthquake or Amnesia (unless Snorlax gets a lucky freeze with Ice Beam).

**Cloyster and Slowbro**: Cloyster and Slowbro are the next best options to switch into Body Slam. Their high defensive stats allow them to come out of the one-on-one matchup on top, but their reliance on Rest to stay healthy and failure to pose a significant immediate threat mean they aren't always the most reliable answers to Snorlax. Slowbro is especially notable, as it can use a sleeping Snorlax as a golden opportunity to set up Amnesia; however, Cloyster has better physical bulk, allowing it to avoid a 4HKO from Body Slam, as well as the ability to use Explosion in case things start to go wrong after paralysis from Body Slam.

**Other Special Attackers**: Although there aren't many special attackers that enjoy taking a Body Slam to the face, many of them are powerful enough to 3HKO Snorlax, which means they can exert a lot of pressure over it, especially when it's forced to use Rest and sit still for a few turns. Starmie, Lapras, Exeggutor, and Zapdos are some good examples of Pokemon that can force Snorlax out with their strong STAB attacks.

**Porygon**: Although Porygon's base stats are pitiful, it has access to a very specific set of qualities that make it just good enough to handle Snorlax: it is faster, it is immune to Body Slam's paralysis due to its typing, and Recover's 32 PP allow Porygon to outstall Body Slam's 24 PP. Snorlax's only hopes of breaking down Porygon usually rest on the possibility of landing either a critical hit with Body Slam or a freeze with Ice Beam; however, Porygon is very weak, and it is incredibly easy for the Snorlax player to simply switch out.

**Rock-types Carrying Rest**: Another very specific countermeasure, Rock-types carrying Rest are generally able to outstall any Snorlax variant that isn't carrying the specific coverage for them. As long as the Rock-type has Rest to stall out repeated Body Slams, there are quite a few of them that can win the one-on-one matchup: non-Earthquake Snorlax will be unable to break through Omastar and Kabutops, non-Ice Beam Snorlax will struggle to wear down Aerodactyl, and even Rhydon can beat a Snorlax in the long run if Snorlax is only carrying Normal-type moves.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Amaranth, 265630]]
- Quality checked by: [[Lusch, 254408], [FriendOfMrGolem120, 424525]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Empress, 175616], [, ]]
 
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Toxic & Mimic on Snorlax is not a thing, and should be dropped from OO.

Also, from my experience & preference, I would slash Counter with Hyper Beam not Earthquake on the Physical Attacker set. Reason being to not be walled by Counter & Gengar. Making the set:

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Self-Destruct
move 4: Hyper Beam / Counter
 

Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
Toxic & Mimic on Snorlax is not a thing, and should be dropped from OO.

Also, from my experience & preference, I would slash Counter with Hyper Beam not Earthquake on the Physical Attacker set. Reason being to not be walled by Counter & Gengar. Making the set:

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Self-Destruct
move 4: Hyper Beam / Counter
Mimic could be dropped, but Toxic is definitely viable on specific teams. I brought ToxLax to an SPL game even though it didn't end up revealing it, it's 100% worthy of a mention even if you think it's "not a thing"

On the Counter slash, it was already discussed in the C&C discord, log here, and ultimately leaned towards doing it the way it currently is. Although I suppose it could be slashed on both EQ and HB.
 
My QC comments:
On the ReflectLax set:
I feel you should elaborate more on the weaknesses (which are mostly offensive shortcomings vs certain Pokemon) of any given 4th move, even if it might seem obvious. As it stands, Ice Beam looks like an awesome move. I agree that it is good, and it could even be slashed first (okay) but IceLax struggles vs Cloy (and to an extent Lapras, especially here, Hyper Beam helps dramatically, but even in Cloyster's case). Also it makes Lax kind of tothless (really, really hoping for a Paraslam) against the bulkier special attackers like legendary birds (ik, Lax does not want to fight them anyway, but with Beam or Boom for example they are way more threatened) or anything bulky that sets up like Slowbro or stuff like Exeggutor, not to mention Starmie, where Lax greatly appreciates Hyper Beam too. Same goes for any 4th move. You mention it in C&C but I would also mention it in the set description of mono normal Lax how it cannot touch Gengar and does not exactly love Rhydon (even though Rhydon does not love the MU still). Also I am not convinced that Amnesia deserves a Slash on ReflectLax. Sam alone won't get you far usually. Too weak of an option for my taste. Less slashes makes it look cleaner. You can put that one in OO, I think it's better off there.

I would echo Ebola on the Counter mention (you said yourself already, at least slash it over both EQ and Hyper Beam instead of only over EQ)
Mimic and Toxic should be dropped. It's just my opinion and I believe a lot would share it. Just because you brought it to one SPL game (and did not even come into play) does not mean it's an OO. I mean... if you say "Toxic supports Wrappers" then Toxic is an OO for pretty much anything tbh, and I just don't think it's significant enough for that, especially on a Pokemon like Snorlax who has much much better things to do with his moveslots. Even OO in analsysis should be kept at what you actually might encounter in a game, and in my time playing RBY for almost 5 years now, I have never faced (or used) a Toxic Snorlax in serious play.

Additionally the Mega Kick / Double Edge mention in OO should be higher prioritized, as should the harden one. At the very least it should be after the Thunderbolt mention, but I'd even say before it. I have seen more of those than Thunderbolt (which is a set that I have used in WCoP if we want to go down that road (it does not matter), but that does not make it a more viable OO than Harden.

Other than that the section on AmnesiaLax and PhysLax I liked.

QC once you implemented those changes.
 
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Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
My QC comments:
On the ReflectLax set:
I feel you should elaborate more on the weaknesses (which are mostly offensive shortcomings vs certain Pokemon) of any given 4th move, even if it might seem obvious. As it stands, Ice Beam looks like an awesome move. I agree that it is good, and it could even be slashed first (okay) but IceLax struggles vs Cloy (and to an extent Lapras, especially here, Hyper Beam helps dramatically, but even in Cloyster's case). Also it makes Lax kind of tothless (really, really hoping for a Paraslam) against the bulkier special attackers like legendary birds (ik, Lax does not want to fight them anyway, but with Beam or Boom for example they are way more threatened) or anything bulky that sets up like Slowbro or stuff like Exeggutor, not to mention Starmie, where Lax greatly appreciates Hyper Beam too. Same goes for any 4th move. You mention it in C&C but I would also mention it in the set description of mono normal Lax how it cannot touch Gengar and does not exactly love Rhydon (even though Rhydon does not love the MU still). Also I am not convinced that Amnesia deserves a Slash on ReflectLax. Sam alone won't get you far usually. Too weak of an option for my taste. Less slashes makes it look cleaner. You can put that one in OO, I think it's better off there.
I didn't want to go on for too long about every single move, because there's a lot of possible 4th moves and explaining everything about every single one just makes the analysis amazingly large. But I'll look over it and check for places where I can elaborate in the next few days.

I would echo Ebola on the Counter mention (you said yourself already, at least slash it over both EQ and Hyper Beam instead of only over EQ)
Mimic and Toxic should be dropped. It's just my opinion and I believe a lot would share it. Just because you brought it to one SPL game (and did not even come into play) does not mean it's an OO. I mean... if you say "Toxic supports Wrappers" then Toxic is an OO for pretty much anything tbh, and I just don't think it's significant enough for that, especially on a Pokemon like Snorlax who has much much better things to do with his moveslots. Even OO in analsysis should be kept at what you actually might encounter in a game, and in my time playing RBY for almost 5 years now, I have never faced (or used) a Toxic Snorlax in serious play.
Are we talking about the same pokemon? The one that could only have access to 3 moveslots and still be a tier staple because Slam+Ref+Rest is just that good? Snorlax's 4th slot is one of the least essential moveslots in any team of RBY and one of the easiest places to go to whenever you need to tech for specific match ups, which is exactly what Toxic is. I'm willing to drop Mimic because it's really unreliable and even when it snatches moves like TWave or Soft-Boiled they don't really do anything that he can't already sort of do with BSlam and Rest; but I'm really not willing to drop Toxic, it's an amazing tech in any team with a Cloy or a Vic and both of these mons are quite common, plus it's the best enabler of Moltres. I know it's not very popular but if fucking Kinesis can get an OO mention in the Alakazam analysis (or screens on the Starmie analysis, and so on), Toxic is not going anywhere.

Additionally the Mega Kick / Double Edge mention in OO should be higher prioritized, as should the harden one. At the very least it should be after the Thunderbolt mention, but I'd even say before it. I have seen more of those than Thunderbolt (which is a set that I have used in WCoP if we want to go down that road (it does not matter), but that does not make it a more viable OO than Harden.

Other than that the section on AmnesiaLax and PhysLax I liked.

QC once you implemented those changes.
Has Mega Kick or Double Edge Snorlax ever done anything of relevance? Genuine question. I've never seen it but I don't watch as many RBY games as I used to.

Harden above TBolt set, sure, will implement when I get around to working on the other things as well.
 
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Toxic can be added to almost any Pokemon. Why is it only being mentioned specifically with Snorlax? I feel that is just some sort of general statement, "using Toxic makes partial-trappers better". This can basically be added to almost every single analysis then. Many other mons do not need to use all standard 4 moves. Also many can squeeze them into their attacks if really needed, ex. your Chansey set in SPL. Is Toxic on Snorlax specifically really that much better of an option then using it with a different mon? Or are other analysis lacking Toxic in OO? Such as Alakazam, Jynx, & Cloyster to name a few, of which all have flexible 4th move slots. What specifically makes Snorlax a good option to carry Toxic?
 

Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
Toxic can be added to almost any Pokemon. Why is it only being mentioned specifically with Snorlax? I feel that is just some sort of general statement, "using Toxic makes partial-trappers better". This can basically be added to almost every single analysis then. Many other mons do not need to use all standard 4 moves. Also many can squeeze them into their attacks if really needed, ex. your Chansey set in SPL. Is Toxic on Snorlax specifically really that much better of an option then using it with a different mon? Or are other analysis lacking Toxic in OO? Such as Alakazam, Jynx, & Cloyster to name a few, of which all have flexible 4th move slots. What specifically makes Snorlax a good option to carry Toxic?
Toxic is mentioned on the Chansey analysis because it's another pokemon that can easily afford space for it. Alakazam absolutely does not have a flexible 4th slot. Fair point about Cloyster and Jynx analyses, but they're even more niche users than Lax and Chansey who are the best mons at both luring Toxic targets and not sacrificing too much to run the move in the first place. On those two Toxic really is entering "not a thing" territory and I'm fine with it not being mentioned, but Chansey and Lax are by far the best Toxic spreaders on any team that uses Toxic. And Toxic is also mentioned on the Exeggutor analysis - hands down the third best user for the move.

Snorlax is a good option for Toxic because it lures in unparalyzed Reflect Chanseys with amazing consistency. It's not that difficult.

Now I appreciate that you're willing to come to these threads to be educated on those things, but please use less confrontational tones because I've put in a shitload of effort for these analyses and I'm not gonna take any shit from undisciplined brats, even less so if they don't even know the facts ("only being mentioned on Snorlax" - could have taken five minutes to check the others.)
 
Checks & Counters section:
Porgon is rank D+ in the RBY OU Viability Rankings for the sole purpose of stopping Snorlax dead in its tracks, I think it deserves a mention.

Also, Rock-Types deserve a mention in counters/checks that affect Mono-Normal Lax, clear cuts are Rhydon & Golem, but idk if a small mention of Aerodactyl, Omastar & Kabutops fit there too, depending on the Snorlax build. As it is a center-piece of RBY, some players will dig deep to counter that. Ex: Sceptross Vs. Nails in the last SPL.
 

Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
Checks & Counters section:
Porgon is rank D+ in the RBY OU Viability Rankings for the sole purpose of stopping Snorlax dead in its tracks, I think it deserves a mention.

Also, Rock-Types deserve a mention in counters/checks that affect Mono-Normal Lax, clear cuts are Rhydon & Golem, but idk if a small mention of Aerodactyl, Omastar & Kabutops fit there too, depending on the Snorlax build. As it is a center-piece of RBY, some players will dig deep to counter that. Ex: Sceptross Vs. Nails in the last SPL.
Thank you. Will add when I have time
 

Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
- Moved Harden above Toxic and Thunderbolt sets in OO
- Removed Mimic from OO
- Moved Amnesia from the main set to OO
- Expanded on the shortcomings of Ice Beam, Hyper Beam, and Self-Destruct in the Reflect+Rest set description
- Added Porygon and Rock-types carrying Rest in C&C

Lusch take another look when you have time
 
Sorry it took so long, forgot about this, Amaranth.
I guess, if you really want to mention Toxic, mention it...
Still, I maintain than Counter should be slashed over both EQ and Hyper Beam
Lastly, I also still believe that the shortcomings of Ice Beam are not descrived enough. Snorlax also loses something by running Ice Beam, it's not only a positive, and I think it is important to point that out more explicitly.

If those are implemented, I'll say QC 1/2
 

Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
Still, I maintain than Counter should be slashed over both EQ and Hyper Beam
This is something we've argued over a lot and never came to an agreement on. Me and Nails believe slashing Counter over HB should not be a thing, you and FOMG believe that it should, and we've made no progress on this specific argument in months. Not really sure how to handle this.

Lastly, I also still believe that the shortcomings of Ice Beam are not descrived enough. Snorlax also loses something by running Ice Beam, it's not only a positive, and I think it is important to point that out more explicitly.
What exactly do you want me to expand on? Mentioning that match ups such as Cloy, Lapras, and legendary birds get a little tougher? Or is it something else? I'm not really clear on this
 
This is something we've argued over a lot and never came to an agreement on. Me and Nails believe slashing Counter over HB should not be a thing, you and FOMG believe that it should, and we've made no progress on this specific argument in months. Not really sure how to handle this.
Don't know what to tell you about this one... Writing those analysis is also a bit of a compromise. I gave in with Toxic, you could give in with Counter. Not like it is false or changes much. Absolutely not shitting on Nails (to be clear), but he is or has been the "Fire Blat Tauros guy" who drops EQ on Normals whenever he gets the chance to, to the point people bring Omastar against him. It's no surprise he's on your side with this. With all those mone normal Laxes you guys don't seem to like good old type coverage all that much, huh?

What exactly do you want me to expand on? Mentioning that match ups such as Cloy, Lapras, and legendary birds get a little tougher? Or is it something else? I'm not really clear on this
You only mentioned it cannot do immediately huge damage (or somethign along those lines). This is fine, but yea, I would like to read that Ice Beam over something like Hyper Beam increases the amount of hits it takes for Snorlax to KO stuff like Exeggutor and Zapdos (you are really dependant on getting that paraslam) and even Starmie becomes a much harder MU. And yea, CLoyster is used that much because of IceLax, I think it should also be mentioned. I suppose if you wanna cut it really short the "leaves Snorlax unable of threatening large amounts of damage in one turn. " covers all that, but for a newer reader, I think it's important to read explicitly that you struggle more ve Exeggutor or Zapdos for example.
 

Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
Slashed Counter over Hyper Beam and expanded on Ice Beam's shortcomings. Lusch one last mention to confirm the QC and we can finally move on ^^
 

FriendOfMrGolem120

aka. FOMG
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a defending SPL Champion
Moderator
Snorlax can drop Body Slam entirely to play an Ice Beam / Reflect / Amnesia / Rest set that simply aims to soak up damage and click Ice Beam until it manages to freeze something, but it is a rather situational set that generally needs to be in very specific teams to function, and is completely helpless against Ice-types.
Nitpicking here but at +6 you have very high odds to 3HKO'ing Jynx. Even though Lapras can get worn down over time, I don't think it's necessary to mention that since Lax dying to crits/freezes is far more likely.
I'd rather mention that (paralysed) Starmie has decent chances to stall it out due to Ice Beam having less PP than Body Slam (and slightly lower damage output).
Another oddball set is Amnesia / Blizzard / Thunderbolt / (Rest or Self-Destruct)
Do you think Rest is a good choice on that set? I think it's usually better to try to get a surprise KO with that set and then trade with Boom. I am not opposed to keeping Rest as option but I personally would state that Self Destruct would usually be preferred.
Body Slam / Reflect / Rest sets can afford a few more options in the fourth slot.
If you mention Toxic, I'd also mention Counter here. Having revealed Reflect earlier in the game, the opponent is less likely to scout for it.
**Gengar**
To me it sounds a bit too much as if Gengar almost autowins against any Lax without EQ. I would make it more clear that 1. Lax can try to outstall Gengar even though it risks fainting due to TBolt crits 2. Ice Beam can freeze 3. +2 Blizzard is threatening. Maybe just replace "wall" with "check" or so.
**Cloyster, Slowbro**
Cloyster handles Lax a bit better defensively (not getting 4HKO'dby Body Slam) which I would briefly mention. It also has the ability to explode which could come in handy since PhysLax is quite threatening still (If paralysed Cloy once rested against it, it would always be forced resting immediately since with Hyper Beam Lax threatens a 4HKO).

Even though I adressed a lot of stuff, I truly think the analysis is really excellent overall. Great work!
 

Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
To me it sounds a bit too much as if Gengar almost autowins against any Lax without EQ. I would make it more clear that 1. Lax can try to outstall Gengar even though it risks fainting due to TBolt crits 2. Ice Beam can freeze 3. +2 Blizzard is threatening. Maybe just replace "wall" with "check" or so.
It sounds that way because I meant for it to sound that way - the regular IceLax gets absolutely dumped on by Gengar and I want that to be pretty clear. 21.5% crit chance means Lax has to chain Rests slightly under half the time, and whenever it dares to click Ice Beam it's exposing itself to very likely death once again (T0: Tbolt -> Rest, lax at 100; T1: Tbolt -> Rest, lax at <80; T2: Tbolt, Rest, lax at <60; T3 Tbolt, Ice Beam, lax at <40; T4 Tbolt, Rest, lax at 20 before going back to full. If either T3 or T4 are TB crits Lax dies). As far as I can remember I've never had anyone attempt to 1v1 my Gengar with IceLax without it ending up poorly for them, I know anecdotal evidence is not worth much but when there's decent math backing it up I feel pretty confident overall. There's also the factor that this is one situation where if the Gengar player gets "lucky" it's a free 1 for 0 for them, if the Snorlax player gets lucky often the best thing they can get is a PP stall on a Gengar that can just proceed to explode for a 1 for 1 (or at least a 1 for 0.75 or a trade of that sort). Unless Snorlax somehow manages a freeze that is, but I've explained why it has a rough time trying for any additional Ice Beam clicks after the first rest. I have added that Lax can luck out and get an IB freeze but I'm not going to actually recommend people to attempt fishing for it.

Amnesia Lax beats Gengar for sure though, great catch


On the other stuff: very good nitpicks. Added that mono IB lax struggles to break through paralyzed mie/chans, added that self-d is preferred to rest on the amne tb set, added slam/ref/rest/counter, elaborated on Cloyster's merits a little.
 

FriendOfMrGolem120

aka. FOMG
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a defending SPL Champion
Moderator
I wasn't trying to say that regular ReflectIceLax can really fish for freezes in a 1v1 vs Gar but it can do so if Gar switches in. If Lax is trying to wall Gar, I agree that the best play is to always click Rest once you are in regular Tbolt + TBolt crit range (so basically immediately after waking up from Rest).
The Gar section sounds good now, I will check the other stuff later when I have more time.
 
AMGP check, implement what you want

General comments:
  • Don't pluralize Pokemon (just say "Snorlax" instead of "Snorlaxes")
  • "matchup", not "match up" or "match-up"
  • "you" refers to the player, use "Snorlax" to refer to the Pokemon
  • Add a comma before "as" when it means "because"
add remove (comment)
(AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; AH=add hyphen; RH=remove hyphen; AP=add period; SC=semicolon)

[OVERVIEW]

Snorlax is a centerpiece of the RBY metagame. It is present on almost every team due to its incredible strength, bulk, and versatility, in spite of its terrible Speed. Its Body Slam is incredibly difficult to switch into, and on top of that, (AC) Snorlax itself is one of the best switch-ins against it, which results in most early games revolving around Snorlaxes Snorlax on both sides of the field. Snorlax is one of the biggest offensive threats and one of the hardest things to kill at the same time, which means it's usually hard to find reasons not to run Snorlax on your team.

[SET]
name: Reflect
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Ice Beam / Self-Destruct / Hyper Beam / Earthquake

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Snorlax's Body Slam is one of the most difficult attacks to switch into in the tier, due to the its sheer power, paralysis chance, and the relative lack of Normal-type resists in the tier. Reflect allows Snorlax to take on physical attackers, most importantly an opposing Snorlax, much more comfortably. Rest gives Snorlax the ability to remain healthy throughout the game. A lot of moves can fit in the last slot. The most common one is Ice Beam, as it allows Snorlax to threaten a freeze on opposing Reflect users which can otherwise neutralize Snorlax's Body Slam; however, (AC) this leaves Snorlax unable of threatening to threaten large amounts of damage in one turn, which means its match(remove space)up against many important Pokemon such as Exeggutor, Zapdos, Cloyster, and Lapras goes from bad to worse, and even its ability to power through a paralyzed Starmie or Chansey goes down significantly. Self-Destruct adds a lot of versatility to this Snorlax set, as the move allows it to function as a wallbreaker if needed, or just as a defensive piece (did you mean "pivot"?) thanks to Reflect and Rest if preferred, while Hyper Beam provides some of Self-Destruct's wallbreaking power without you having to sacrifice your Snorlax for it; however, (AC) a Snorlax that is only carrying Normal-type attacks will struggle against Rock-types and will be entirely unable to damage Ghost-types. Lastly, although Earthquake doesn't provide the freeze threat nor the immediate power of the other moves, it allows Snorlax to beat Gengar and Counter Chansey, two options Pokemon that, albeit rare, are usually specifically devised to beat it.

Using Reflect Snorlax is particularly nuanced due to having to balance Snorlax as both an offensive and defensive tool. If used too aggressively, (AC) it might take a KO (RC) but subsequently struggle to find turns to Rest back up, making it a trade that is not always worth taking. On the other hand, if used too passively, (AC) it will invite too much offensive pressure and eventually collapse without achieving much of anything. Optimal usage of Reflect Snorlax requires careful analysis of the game state as well as appropriate prediction ("use this carefully" doesn't actually tell me anything), but when properly managed it is incredibly potent, as the special attackers that can threaten it either lack recovery or physical bulk, meaning that teams will generally resort to various stalling tactics to force Snorlax to use Rest first, and then pressure it during the asleep its sleep turns. Reflect Snorlax is at its best in the early game, early-game when the opponent has one or more paralyzed Pokemon to abuse, most commonly Alakazam or Chansey, and when its teammates can offer the necessary defensive cover against special attackers, but it is no slouch in the later stages of the game late-game either, as it can trade 1 for 1 one-for-one with most Pokemon and has an important positive match(RH)up against Tauros.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Hyper Beam / Counter
move 3: Self-Destruct
move 4: Earthquake / Counter

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

This moveset is fairly straightforward: maximize offensive power to wallbreak as well as possible. Body Slam is the go-to attack to inflict damage, and the combination of it with Hyper Beam makes it Snorlax particularly dangerous and hard to switch into, especially for paralyzed opponents. Self-Destruct is an incredibly potent move to take down an extra Pokemon with Snorlax's last breath, or even to take opponents by surprise earlier on if the situation calls for it. The last slot is a toss-(AH)up: Earthquake allows Snorlax to play around Counter Chansey much more comfortably, as well as hitting Gengar and threatening Rhydon, but it can be dropped to include Counter, a tool that allows this Snorlax set to muscle through an opponent's Reflect Snorlax with correct prediction. Counter may also be used in conjunction with Earthquake and in place of Hyper Beam; the lack of Hyper Beam is quite important, (AC) as it makes Snorlax much less threatening as a wallbreaker, but Earthquake offers unique coverage that could be worth keeping for specific match(remove space)ups.

The absence of recovery on this Snorlax set makes it far riskier to handle (did you mean "utilize"? "handle" gives off the impression that it's more difficult for the opponent to play around), as it can only take a few hits before being forced to Self-Destruct. Therefore, this Snorlax set needs to be considered as a tool to accelerate the game and little else, as its defensive capabilities are very limited. This often just means using an early-(AH)game Self-Destruct on the opponent's Reflect user of choice to remove them from the equation before they get a chance to set up their Reflect. It must be noted that this is a one-(AH)for-(AH)one trade, (AC) which is not always advantageous, but it is often the best that can be achieved with this set, as it is often otherwise endlessly walled by Reflect users; recognizing when to be greedy and when to accept a simple Self-Destruct trade is key to achieving good results with this Snorlax set.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Blizzard / Ice Beam
move 3: Amnesia
move 4: Rest / Self-Destruct

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Body Slam is the default main attack to create pressure on the opposition and hopefully bait in Reflect Snorlaxes Snorlax, which this set can abuse thanks to the combination of Amnesia and Blizzard. The last move defines the type of game you want to play with this set: Self-Destruct means hard and fast wallbreaking, (AC) as you Snorlax simply don't doesn't have the durability to set up Amnesias Amnesia multiple times throughout the game, while Rest gives you Snorlax those opportunities but leaves you it notably vulnerable to Tauros. Ice Beam is an option over Blizzard for the higher PP, which is especially relevant on Rest sets, but Blizzard's considerably stronger damage output is generally preferred.

This set is quite dangerous to play against due to how difficult it is to answer if your Chansey is paralyzed. Nearly every other common Pokemon is threatened by either Body Slam or a boosted Blizzard, with Water-types like Starmie and Lapras being the best answers defensively, but struggling to deal significant damage in return thanks to the Special boost. However, a healthy Chansey usually has no issues switching in and walling this Snorlax variant until it's forced to use Rest, which in turn leaves it vulnerable against Tauros. The conditions for this set to excel are difficult to set up, but when they are achieved, (AC) this Snorlax can decide games on its own.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Snorlax can drop Body Slam entirely to play an Ice Beam / Reflect / Amnesia / Rest set that simply aims to soak up damage and click Ice Beam until it manages to freeze something, but it is a rather situational set that generally needs to be in very specific types of teams (like what?) to function, is completely helpless against Ice-types, and it needs some luck to break through paralyzed Starmie or and Chansey, (AC) as Ice Beam's PP is only 16, (AC) so Snorlax cannot fish consecutive paralysis for long.

Surf is the best option available to Snorlax to hit Rhydon and Golem, but given that most Snorlax sets run either Reflect or an Ice-type attack, if not both, the situations where Surf is useful are rare.

Harden is sometimes preferred over Reflect for the higher PP count and the ability to reapply the Speed drop on paralyzed opponents, but it is considerably weaker at answering physical attackers, which is usually the primary duty of Reflect Snorlax usually.

Another oddball set is Amnesia / Blizzard / Thunderbolt / Self-Destruct or Rest (remove parentheses): given that Starmie is a common switch-in once Amnesia is revealed, and that Thunderbolt is a very, very uncommon attack on Snorlax, this set can attempt to lure it in and cripple it with a strong Thunderbolt. However, it struggles incredibly against Chansey and Alakazam. Self-Destruct is preferred as an emergency option that allows Snorlax to bail out of those match(remove space)ups with an even trade, but it is possible to use Rest instead in an attempt to preserve Snorlax as a long-term defensive answer.

Body Slam / Reflect / Rest sets (can't you just say "Reflect sets" since none of the other sets have reflect) can afford a few more options in the fourth slot. Toxic can allow partial trappers such as Cloyster, Moltres, Victreebel, or and Dragonite to be significantly more dangerous, as any poisoned Pokemon attempting to stall out Snorlax's PP will much more quickly run out of HP, and Snorlax is particularly good at luring in optimal Toxic targets such as Reflect Chansey. Another move that can fill that slot is Amnesia, making Snorlax incredibly difficult to threaten via special attacks alone, but ultimately leaving it relatively toothless with Body Slam as its only attack. Counter is also viable, (AC) as after Reflect has been revealed people will most likely stop playing around Counter, giving you some opportunities to find surprise kills with it.

Other Normal-type attacks such as Mega Kick and Double-Edge are rarely seen due to their drawbacks and overall lack of usefulness when Body Slam is such a reliable move and Hyper Beam is a much stronger one, but the ability to repeatedly hit with a stronger Base Power can occasionally come in handy.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Reflect Users**: Reflect users, Chansey and Snorlax first and foremost, can switch in on Body Slam and neutralize the damage output from it Snorlax fairly efficiently. They are by far the most reliable defensive answers to Snorlax and a vast majority of RBY teams are forced to include one of the two, if not both, to check Snorlax.

**Gengar**: Gengar deserves a special mention due to its unique Ghost typing, which allows it to wall all Snorlaxes Snorlax sets that lack Earthquake and use Snorlax as an opportunity to threaten either status with Hypnosis or damage with Thunderbolt. It is especially useful against Snorlax sets that only attack with Normal-type moves, but it also performs well against any set that lacks Earthquake or Amnesia (unless Snorlax gets a lucky Ice Beam freeze).

**Cloyster (RC) and Slowbro**: Cloyster and Slowbro are the next best options to switch into Body Slams Slam. Their high defensive stats allow them to come out of the 1-on-1 one-on-one on top, but their reliance on Rest to stay healthy and lack of failure to pose a significant immediate threat means they aren't always the most reliable answers to Snorlax. Slowbro is especially notable, (AC) as it can use a Resting sleeping Snorlax as a golden opportunity to set up Amnesia; however, (AC) Cloyster has better physical bulk allowing him it to avoid a 4HKO from Body Slam, (AC) as well as the ability to explode in case things start to go wrong after a Body Slam paralysis.

**Other Special Attackers**: Although there aren't many special attackers that enjoy taking a Body Slam to the face, many of them are powerful enough to 3HKO Snorlax, which means they have a lot of pressure over it, (AC) especially when it's forced to Rest and sit still for a few turns. Starmie, Lapras, Exeggutor, and Zapdos are some good examples of Pokemon that can force Snorlax out with their strong STAB attacks.

**Porygon**: Although Porygon's base stats are pitiful, it has access to a very specific set of qualities that make it just good enough to handle Snorlax: it is faster, immune to Body Slam's paralysis due to its typing, and Recover's 32 PP allow it Porygon to outstall Body Slam's 24 PP. Snorlax's only hopes of breaking down a Porygon usually rest on the possibility of landing either a critical hit with Body Slam or a freeze with Ice Beam; however, (AC) Porygon is very weak and it is incredibly easy for the Snorlax player to simply switch out.

**Rock-types Carrying Rest**: Another very specific counter(RH)measure, Rock-types carrying Rest are generally able to outstall any Snorlax variant that isn't carrying the specific coverage for them. As long as the Rock-type has Rest to stall out repeated Body Slams, there are quite a few that can win the one-on-one: Earthquake-less Snorlax will be unable to break through Omastar or Kabutops, Ice Beam-less Snorlax will be unable to break through Aerodactyl, and even Rhydon can beat a Snorlax long-term if Snorlax is only carrying Normal-type moves.
 

Empress

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
bigtalk: add remove (comment)
me: add remove comment
[OVERVIEW]

Snorlax is a centerpiece of the RBY metagame. It is present on almost every team due to its incredible strength, bulk, and versatility, in spite of its terrible Speed. Its Body Slam is incredibly difficult to switch into, and on top of that, (AC) Snorlax itself is one of the best switch-ins against it, which results in most early games early-game scenarios revolving around Snorlaxes Snorlax on both sides of the field. Snorlax is one of the biggest offensive threats and one of the hardest things to kill Pokemon to KO at the same time, which means it's usually hard to find reasons not to run Snorlax on your team.

[SET]
name: Reflect
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Ice Beam / Self-Destruct / Hyper Beam / Earthquake

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Snorlax's Body Slam is one of the most difficult attacks to switch into in the tier, (RC) due to the its sheer power, paralysis chance, and the relative lack of Normal-type resists switch-ins in the tier. Reflect allows Snorlax to take on physical attackers, most importantly an opposing Snorlax, much more comfortably. Rest gives Snorlax the ability to remain healthy throughout the game. A lot of moves can fit in the last moveslot. The most common one is Ice Beam, as it allows Snorlax to threaten a to potentially freeze on opposing Reflect users, (AC) which can otherwise neutralize Snorlax's Body Slam; however, (AC) this leaves Snorlax unable of threatening to threaten large amounts of damage in one turn, which means its match(remove space)up against many important Pokemon such as Exeggutor, Zapdos, Cloyster, and Lapras goes from bad to worse, and even its ability to power through a paralyzed Starmie or Chansey goes down significantly. Self-Destruct adds a lot of versatility to this Snorlax set, as the move allows it Snorlax to function as a wallbreaker if needed, or just as well as a defensive piece (did you mean "pivot"?) thanks to Reflect and Rest if preferred, while Hyper Beam provides some of Self-Destruct's wallbreaking power without you having to sacrifice your Snorlax for it; however, (AC) a Snorlax that is only carrying Normal-type attacks will struggle against Rock-types and will be entirely unable to damage Ghost-types. Lastly, although Earthquake doesn't provide the freeze threat nor of Ice Beam or the immediate power of the other moves, it allows Snorlax to beat Gengar and Counter Chansey, two options Pokemon that, albeit rare, are usually specifically devised to beat it.

Using Reflect Snorlax is particularly nuanced due to having to balance Snorlax as both an offensive and defensive tool. If used too aggressively, (AC) it might take a KO (RC) but subsequently struggle to find turns to heal Rest back up with Rest, making it a trade that is not always worth taking. On the other hand, if used too passively, (AC) it will invite too much offensive pressure and eventually collapse without achieving much of anything. Optimal usage of Reflect Snorlax requires careful analysis of the game state as well as appropriate prediction ("use this carefully" doesn't actually tell me anything), but when properly managed, (AC) it is incredibly potent, as the special attackers that can threaten it either lack either recovery or physical bulk, meaning that teams will generally resort to various stalling tactics to force Snorlax to use Rest first, (RC)and then pressure it during the asleep its sleep turns. Reflect Snorlax is at its best in the early game, early-game when the opponent has one or more paralyzed Pokemon to abuse take advantage of, most commonly Alakazam or and Chansey, and when its teammates can offer the necessary defensive cover against special attackers, but it is no slouch in the later stages of the game late-game either, as it can trade 1 for 1 one-for-one with most Pokemon and has an important positive match(RH)up against Tauros.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Hyper Beam / Counter
move 3: Self-Destruct
move 4: Earthquake / Counter

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

This moveset is fairly straightforward: maximize offensive power to wallbreak as well as possible. Body Slam is the go-to attack to inflict damage, and the combination of it with Hyper Beam makes it Snorlax particularly dangerous and hard to switch into, especially for paralyzed opponents foes. Self-Destruct is an incredibly potent move to take down an extra Pokemon with Snorlax's last breath, (RC) or even to take opponents by surprise earlier on if the situation calls for it. The last moveslot is a toss-(AH)up: Earthquake allows Snorlax to play around Counter Chansey much more comfortably, as well as hitting Gengar and threatening Rhydon, but it can be dropped to include in favor of Counter, a tool that allows this Snorlax set to muscle through an opponent's Reflect Snorlax with correct prediction. Counter may also be used in conjunction with Earthquake and in place of Hyper Beam; the lack of Hyper Beam is quite important noticeable, (AC) as it makes Snorlax much less threatening as a wallbreaker, but Earthquake offers unique better (unique = "only one of its kind") coverage that could be worth keeping for specific match(remove space)ups.

The absence of recovery on this Snorlax set makes it far riskier to handle (did you mean "utilize"? "handle" gives off the impression that it's more difficult for the opponent to play around), as it can only take a few hits before being forced to use Self-Destruct. Therefore, this Snorlax set needs to be considered as a tool to accelerate the game and little else, as its defensive capabilities are very limited. This often just means using an early-(AH)game Self-Destruct on the opponent's Reflect user of choice to remove them from the equation situation (I'd allow this word in a Flying Press article) before they get a chance to set up their Reflect. It must be noted that this is a one-(AH)for-(AH)one trade, (AC) which is not always advantageous, but it is often the best that can be achieved with this set, as it is often otherwise endlessly walled by Reflect users otherwise; recognizing when to be greedy and when to accept a simple Self-Destruct trade is key to achieving good results with this Snorlax set.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Blizzard / Ice Beam
move 3: Amnesia
move 4: Rest / Self-Destruct

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Body Slam is the default main attack to create pressure on the opposition and hopefully bait in Reflect Snorlaxes Snorlax, which this set can abuse take advantage of thanks to the combination of Amnesia and Blizzard. The last move defines the type of game you want to play with this set: Self-Destruct means hard and fast wallbreaking, (AC) as you Snorlax simply don't doesn't have the durability to set up Amnesias Amnesia multiple times throughout the game, while Rest gives you Snorlax those opportunities (to do what?) but leaves you it notably vulnerable to Tauros. Ice Beam is an option over Blizzard for the higher PP, which is especially relevant on Rest sets, but Blizzard's considerably stronger damage output is generally preferred.

This set is quite dangerous to play against due to how difficult it is to answer if your Chansey is paralyzed. Nearly every other common Pokemon is threatened by either Body Slam or a boosted Blizzard, with Water-types like Starmie and Lapras being the best answers defensively, (RC) but struggling to deal significant damage in return thanks to the Special boost. However, a healthy Chansey usually has no issues switching in and walling this Snorlax variant until it's forced to use Rest, which, (AC) in turn, (AC) leaves it vulnerable against Tauros. The conditions for this set to excel are difficult to set up, but when they are achieved, (AC) this Snorlax set can decide games on its own.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Snorlax can drop Body Slam entirely to play run an Ice Beam / Reflect / Amnesia / Rest set that simply aims to soak up damage and click spam Ice Beam until it manages to freeze something a foe, but it is a rather situational set that (redundant) generally needs to be in on very specific types of teams (like what?) to function, is completely helpless against Ice-types, and it needs some luck to break through paralyzed Starmie or and Chansey, (AC) as Ice Beam's PP is only 16, (AC) so Snorlax cannot fish for consecutive paralysis for long.

Surf is the best option available to Snorlax to hit Rhydon and Golem, but given that most Snorlax sets run either Reflect or an Ice-type attack, if not both, the situations where Surf is useful are rare.

Harden is sometimes preferred over Reflect for the higher PP count and the ability to reapply the Speed drop on paralyzed opponents foes, but it is considerably weaker at answering physical attackers, which is usually the primary duty of Reflect Snorlax usually.

Another oddball unusual set is Amnesia / Blizzard / Thunderbolt / Self-Destruct or Rest (remove parentheses): given that Starmie is a common switch-in once Amnesia is revealed, (RC) and that Thunderbolt is a very, very uncommon attack on Snorlax, this set can attempt to lure it in and cripple it with a strong Thunderbolt. However, it struggles incredibly against Chansey and Alakazam. Self-Destruct is preferred as an emergency option that allows Snorlax to bail out of those match(remove space)ups with an even trade, but it is possible to use Rest instead in an attempt to preserve Snorlax as a long-term defensive answer.

Body Slam / Reflect / Rest sets (can't you just say "Reflect sets" since none of the other sets have reflect) can afford a few more options in the fourth moveslot. Toxic can allow partial trappers such as Cloyster, Moltres, Victreebel, or and Dragonite to be significantly more dangerous, as any poisoned Pokemon attempting to stall out Snorlax's PP will much more quickly run out of HP much more quickly, and Snorlax is particularly good at luring in optimal Toxic targets such as Reflect Chansey. Another move that can fill that slot is Amnesia, making Snorlax incredibly difficult to threaten via special attacks alone, (RC) but ultimately leaving it relatively toothless powerless, (Again, less formal words are fine in Flying Press articles) with Body Slam as its only attack. Counter is also viable, (AC) as after Reflect has been revealed, opponents people will most likely stop playing around Counter, giving you some opportunities to find net surprise kills KOs with it.

Other Normal-type attacks such as Mega Kick and Double-Edge are rarely seen due to their drawbacks and overall lack of usefulness when Body Slam is such a reliable move and Hyper Beam is a much stronger one, but the ability to repeatedly hit with a stronger Base Power can occasionally come in handy.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Reflect Users**: Reflect users, particularly Chansey and opposing Snorlax first and foremost, can switch in on Body Slam and neutralize the damage output from it Snorlax fairly efficiently. They are by far the most reliable defensive answers to Snorlax and a vast majority of RBY teams are forced to include one of the two, if not both, to check Snorlax it.

**Gengar**: Gengar deserves a special mention due to its unique Ghost typing, which allows it to wall all Snorlaxes Snorlax sets that lack Earthquake and use Snorlax as an opportunity to threaten either status with Hypnosis or damage with Thunderbolt. It is especially useful against Snorlax sets that only attack with run Normal-type moves attacks, (subjective change) but it also performs well against any set that lacks Earthquake or Amnesia (unless Snorlax gets a lucky freeze with Ice Beam freeze (This is to create a parallelism with a later change)).

**Cloyster (RC) and Slowbro**: Cloyster and Slowbro are the next best options to switch into Body Slams Slam. Their high defensive stats allow them to come out of the 1-on-1 one-on-one matchup on top, but their reliance on Rest to stay healthy and lack of failure to pose a significant immediate threat means mean they aren't always the most reliable answers to Snorlax. Slowbro is especially notable, (AC) as it can use a Resting sleeping Snorlax as a golden opportunity to set up Amnesia; however, (AC) Cloyster has better physical bulk, (AC) allowing him it to avoid a 4HKO from Body Slam, (AC) as well as the ability to explode use Explosion in case things start to go wrong after a paralysis from Body Slam paralysis.

**Other Special Attackers**: Although there aren't many special attackers that enjoy taking a Body Slam to the face, many of them are powerful enough to 3HKO Snorlax, which means they have can exert a lot of pressure over it, (AC) especially when it's forced to use Rest and sit still for a few turns. Starmie, Lapras, Exeggutor, and Zapdos are some good examples of Pokemon that can force Snorlax out with their strong STAB attacks.

**Porygon**: Although Porygon's base stats are pitiful, it has access to a very specific set of qualities that make it just good enough to handle Snorlax: it is faster, it is immune to Body Slam's paralysis due to its typing, and Recover's 32 PP allow it Porygon to outstall Body Slam's 24 PP. Snorlax's only hopes of breaking down a Porygon usually rest on the possibility of landing either a critical hit with Body Slam or a freeze with Ice Beam; however, (AC) Porygon is very weak, (AC) and it is incredibly easy for the Snorlax player to simply switch out.

**Rock-types Carrying Rest**: Another very specific counter(RH)measure, Rock-types carrying Rest are generally able to outstall any Snorlax variant that isn't carrying the specific coverage for them. As long as the Rock-type has Rest to stall out repeated Body Slams, there are quite a few of them that can win the one-on-one matchup: non-Earthquake-less Snorlax will be unable to break through Omastar or and Kabutops, non-Ice Beam-less Snorlax will be unable to break through struggle to wear down Aerodactyl, and even Rhydon can beat a mono-attacking Snorlax in the long run long-term if Snorlax is only carrying Normal-type moves. (I might've changed the sentence's meaning here. If Snorlax sometimes runs mono-attacking sets with no Normal-type moves, this change is incorrect, so we can rework the sentence accordingly.)
As we discussed on Discord, bigtalk, there are too many misses for this to receive a stamp. However, you made no unnecessary changes whatsoever! You should be very proud of that; just be sure not to rush. GP 1/2
 

Amaranth

Formerly The Idiot Ninja
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
Self-Destruct adds a lot of versatility to this Snorlax set, as the move allows it Snorlax to function as a wallbreaker if needed, or just as well as a defensive piece (did you mean "pivot"?) thanks to Reflect and Rest if preferred
Nah I didn't mean pivot, closest thing to a pivot in RBY is Cloyster but without uturn/vswitch/bpass I'd say that role doesn't really exist. I meant defensive piece as in 'part of a larger core (=piece) that allows you to stall out the opposition's attempts to break through (=defensive)'. If there's better wording that retains this meaning I'd be happy to edit

but Earthquake offers unique better (unique = "only one of its kind") coverage that could be worth keeping for specific match(remove space)ups.
EQ's coverage is unique in the scope of Snorlax's moveset which is why I used that word but 'better' fits too so I used that

The absence of recovery on this Snorlax set makes it far riskier to handle (did you mean "utilize"? "handle" gives off the impression that it's more difficult for the opponent to play around)
I did! Good catch

while Rest gives you Snorlax those opportunities (to do what?)
to set up multiple times; slightly modified the text to reflect this

Snorlax can drop Body Slam entirely to play run an Ice Beam / Reflect / Amnesia / Rest set that simply aims to soak up damage and click spam Ice Beam until it manages to freeze something a foe, but it is a rather situational set that (redundant) generally needs to be in on very specific types of teams (like what?) to function, is completely helpless against Ice-types, and it needs some luck to break through paralyzed Starmie or and Chansey, (AC) as Ice Beam's PP is only 16, (AC) so Snorlax cannot fish for consecutive paralysis for long.
That "like what?" is a loaded question... could write pages about how to set up the exact conditions for that Lax set to stand out. It's an OO section so I didn't want to elaborate much, it would take a lot of space to properly explain

Body Slam / Reflect / Rest sets (can't you just say "Reflect sets" since none of the other sets have reflect) can afford a few more options in the fourth moveslot. Toxic can allow partial trappers such as Cloyster, Moltres, Victreebel, or and Dragonite to be significantly more dangerous, as any poisoned Pokemon attempting to stall out Snorlax's PP will much more quickly run out of HP much more quickly,
I could just say Reflect sets but since I'm speaking about a 'fourth moveslot' I think it makes sense to mention the first three explicitly. Also, poisoned Pokemon will be attempting to stall out PP from the partial trappers (cloy molt vic and dnite) rather than Snorlax, so instead of that "Snorlax's" I added "their".

even Rhydon can beat a mono-attacking Snorlax in the long run long-term if Snorlax is only carrying Normal-type moves. (I might've changed the sentence's meaning here. If Snorlax sometimes runs mono-attacking sets with no Normal-type moves, this change is incorrect, so we can rework the sentence accordingly.)
Yep there's two issues with changing the sentence this way, one is that mono-Ice Beam exists, two is that there are sets that are walled by Rhydon but aren't mono-attacking (Slam+HyperBeam, Slam+SelfDestruct). I replaced "long-term" with "in the long run" but kept the rest of the wording for now


Implemented.
 

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