Gen 3 Special Offense + Spikes

UD

BeerLover
Hi All,

I have wanted to post an RMT of mine for some time now, to share my ideas and give others an insight into my teambuilding process. I have bounced back and forth many times between many different teams, trying to decide which one I wanted to RMT. The infamous "BeerLover" build was an obvious choice, but I feel I've already shared much of what made that team so great, illustrated in these two posts in the Underrated Sets thread, here and here (fast Blissey from the first one and SpDef Gengar from the second). Though the mythical nature of the ladder cop BeerLover (52-1 ladder record at one point, possibly the highest GXE in the history of the ADV ladder) tells a great story to be sure, I wanted to tell a more recent story, one that more accurately reflects my current teambuilding philosophy.

Only teams I consider to be truly great or, dare I say, revolutionary, would be deserving of an RMT, so that further narrowed down my options. I'm really proud of my performance this past SPL, especially in the teambuilding department, so I wanted it to be something fresh on the mind. The only teams I considered unique enough to be worthy were my teams against Linear, undisputed, CALLOUS (RIP), Jirachee (regular season), deluks, and Asta. I realize I just listed a whopping 60% of the teams I used this season, and yeah I admit I have a pretty high opinion of myself and my teams. But what's the point of playing if you don't love what you use? The Teambuilder is a blank canvas free for us to express our creativity; we are the artists (or bakers? I don't remember the analogy lol).

The two Weezing builds, used against CALLOUS and Jirachee (games linked) are some of my favorite teams of all time. But I acknowledge they are a little tricky to operate and have a few glaring weaknesses, namely Spikes + Offensive Starmie, particularly the one I used against Jirachee. I have already professed my love for Weezing in the Underrated Sets thread so please check out that post for some more Weezing love. These two teams are out.

On paper, the squad I brought against Linear looks super cool. It's the first Offense I can ever recall seeing that utilizes both Aero and Offensive Starmie in the late game. However, that team really suffers from a lack of longevity and I just don't think it is reliable enough to bring game in and game out and expect to win if you play well. So this is out.

I have maybe the biggest Venusaur boner of any ADV player around. Pair it with a Swampert and I'll practically blow my load in excitement. I paired the "VenuPert" combination with Zapdos and Moltres, creating what is undoubtedly The Most Beautiful Team of all time in my week 9 game against Asta. CB Metagross and Snorlax rounded off that team for a rather off-beat sort of offensive but also sort of bulky team that features some unusual combinations. However, despite the Metagross and Snorlax accompaniment, the team was still extremely Blissey weak - more on this to follow - and thus, it is too unreliable to RMT and recommend on an every-game basis.

After crossing off the previous four teams from the list, only left are the teams I used against undisputed and deluks. One team looks like a fairly run of the mill Jolteon Spikes Stack; the other is some wild ass team featuring WishMence, Hariyama, and Mono Fire Jirachi. While I do love my Hariyama team, and was absolutely overjoyed when it put in work in an SPL game, I am going to personally admit that the team has some serious flaws and it isn't consistent enough to warrant an RMT. I needed something that was good enough to win any given game, something that always makes you feel like you're in the driver's seat. Thus, my decision is made and I will explain what went into my W3 team, aptly titled "Special Offense + Spikes."

*TL;DR: scroll to the Hide tag at the bottom if you just want the team. This is going to be a lengthy read.*

*By the way, I am planning on posting a full Team Dump so everything I used this SPL will be posted eventually; stay tuned if you want to use any of the teams I just mentioned.*

At a Glance:​


At first sight, this team looks entirely standard, with little setting it apart from any of the other Jolteon Spikes teams out there. The build is always fairly similar anyway. Jolteon + Gengar + Skarmory + Tyranitar + Water + Rock resist. The most common iteration of the team is probably Swampert and Aero in the last two slots. Occasionally it is a Dugtrio > Aero, and some versions use Flygon + Suicune in the last. I have even seen some pretty cool versions with no Tyranitar, and with a Jirachi plus Dugtrio in its stead (full lineup: Jolteon / Skarmory / Gengar / Jirachi / Dugtrio / Suicune). Basically the goal is similar on all of these teams: Spike up with Skarmory, Spinblock with Gengar, predict well with your Jolteon, who doubles as your Special wall, and eventually overcome the opponent with Spikes plus your late game hard hitter. I didn't really take this approach when teambuilding, however. At least not in my mind.

The most obvious thing off the bat is my lack of a bulky Water type on my team, which automatically puts you at risk of losing to any Magneton + physical offense style team. Another byproduct of using no Water Mon (basically no Suicune or Milotic) means I have no Water resist; however I mitigated this with applying pressure on the Water Mons of the tier from every angle. My philosophy is simple: if you can temporarily check a Spike vulnerable threat - most ADV sweepers are Spike vulnerable save for DD Mence and Gyara, Zapdos, and Aero - then you can win in the long run by preserving the right Mon on your own team for a late game sweep.

Dual Electric cores are extremely potent in today's metagame. The tier's number one physical wall, and arguably greatest presence, is Skarmory. Skarmory CAN be beaten down if you apply pressure on it from all members of your team, or if you reduce the impact of its offense against you. In other words, if you're going to use Mons that can't necessarily 1v1 Skarmory, then at least provide them a method with which to counteract Skarmory's offense - Toxic and Spikes.

I wanted to use the core of Zapdos and Jolteon for my team, because I had been using a lot of Jolteon at the time and rediscovering how amazing of a Mon it was. Incredible Speed tier plus the invaluable trait of switching into Gengar makes it so good in today's ADV metagame. Zapdos is the king of Offensive + Defensive Pressure (pun intended). It switches in on Metagross, Gyarados, MixMence, every Water Mon on the right move. It is a fantastic Mon.

*Side story: I didn't build this team thinking "hey, I want a new Jolteon Spikes team." I started building around dual Electric / Special offense before I started building around Jolteon + Spikes. This is important for explaining a lot of what else went into this team.*

I'm not shy about my opinion - Blissey is the number one most broken Mon in the tier. It completely, utterly, ridiculously, absurdly walls half of the tier, and threatens 90% of the rest of it. Every single specially offensive Mon NEEDS methods with which it can beat, or at least take advantage of Blissey. For Jolteon, the only way it can ever hope to do this is with Spikes + Roar / Baton Pass combination. So Skarmory was the obvious addition. Zapdos can technically pull off the same trick, but Zapper has a few tricks of its own that were ultimately more valuable to this team. Some modern day stalls / balances utilize SpDef Celebi as the special wall, which is impossible to muscle past with an Electric Mon. Even one as strong as Modest HP Ice Zapdos struggles to dent Calm Celebi without full layers of Spikes down. Fortunately, Zapdos has a super nifty Flying typing and access to a great STAB move backed by a pretty formidable Base 90 Att stat. With Drill Peck + HP Grass, you have the only Electric in the game that can work its way through opposing Swampert + Grass Mon defensive cores. Throw in the fact that Drill Peck does a pretty good number to Blissey, and I was sold on the set.

228 Atk Zapdos Drill Peck vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 197-232 (30.2 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Gengar and Tyranitar were extremely obvious additions to the Jolteon / Zapdos / Skarmory core I was working with. Gengar as the only Spinblocker in the tier capable of maintaining Offensive pressure (not that I seriously considered Dusclops, lol), and Tyranitar for the Sand that so many ADV teams desperately need in order to chunk away at opposing Fat Mons. For Tyranitar, I went with the good 'ol BKC Tar. Max Att, Max HP, Focus Punch / Earthquake / Rock Slide / HP Bug. This is probably my favorite new set of 2017. Extremely strong and bulky, it is an asset to every team that doesn't require Tar to end game sweep as a Dragon Dancer.

Gengar was a little trickier to figure out. Offensive Gar with Explosion seemed obvious. Fit the bill as a Special attacker that had an out against Blissey, but it also had the Special coverage that this Spikes team desperately needed. However, Explosion on Gengar has really soured on me. I was so damn sick and tired of Pursuit Tar switching on me and just Exploding on it for 35%. I needed an alternative method that allowed me to use Max SpA, fast Gengar on this team (since SpDef wasn't an option because I lacked Dugtrio or Blissey, AKA Mons that really punished opposing Pursuit Tar, and also I needed the power more to keep my Offensive pressure with the Spikes down). This team gave way to the birth of Dynamic Punch Gengar.

40 Atk Gengar Dynamic Punch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 214-252 (32.8 - 38.6%) -- 4.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If you can hit it on the switch in with Spikes down, you basically force the opponent to risk losing their only Gengar answer on a 50% accurate move, while Softboiling through Confusion. A lot of times my opponent has been forced to pivot their Salamence on my Gengar just to get off a crucial Intimidate for their Blissey to take the impending Dynamic Punch better. I really can not express enough how good this set is. You simply must try it out for yourself to witness all it's capable of.

With the lineup currently at Jolteon / Zapdos / Skarmory / Gengar / Tyranitar, all that was left to decide was which Rock resist to use. I wanted a Spike immune Mon just because I didn't want to concern myself with opposing Skarmory coming in at all. When you don't give a shit about opposing Skarmory, it frees up a lot of your decisions in the Teambuilder. You can use 0 Speed Skarmory. You can use BKC Tar without Mag. You welcome the Skarmory coming in since it gives you opportunities to get your game plan going. Trade Spikes with it if it's early game, go Gengar mid game, or go Zapdos late game. Either way, when the opponent clicks Spikes, make it benefit you, not them.

Between Flygon and Claydol, Flygon was the preferred option as I was still playing with the mentality that this is a Specially offensive team that needs to do everything it can to bone Blissey and Snorlax to a lesser extent. Flygon has a strong EQ and a good Speed tier, so I wanted a beefy Flygon that hit hard. Sure I open myself up more to late game DD Mence with my greedy EV spread, but I take the good with the bad.

TheyWontKnowUrName (Flygon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 208 HP / 136 Atk / 144 Def / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Toxic

Enough HP to survive 0- SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam; it lives CB Meteor Mash from full (though Zapdos is your Metagross switch in after Skarmory gets Magneton'd); Rock Slide > Fire Blast because this is technically both the Aero and CB / DD Mence counter, plus Rock Slide does better chip on bulky Gengar than Fire Blast does.

This team really is exposed to DD Mence late game with this Flygon spread. So if you find yourself too vulnerable to it, then I recommend changing to Impish and going near Max HP and Max Def. Overall I loved the Att pumping just to really punish things like Swampert (whose Ice Beam you will live from full HP more often than not) and the aforementioned Blissey. CurseLax too, as with WoW-less Gengar, your options against CurseLax become a little less clear.

There were only a few decisions left to be made: what Hidden Power type on Jolteon, the fourth move on Zapdos, which coverage move to drop on Gengar, and the Skarmory set. I went with HP Ice on Jolteon because I love love love HP Ice Jolteon. Permanent CB Mence / Flygon revenge killer, plus Mence can never click DD against you unless it is a fully SpDef version. You're also fine with Swampert walling you because Pert coming in means you get free Spikes, and Spikes = everything when you are trying to win with a mixed attacking Zapdos and Dynamic Punch Gengar.

The last move on Mix Zapdos is a bit tricky, as it can technically be anything. Thunder Wave helps for DD Tar weak teams; it is also great for preventing DD Mence from setting up in your face. Light Screen is always cool, Toxic is an option, hell why not Roar. Zapdos has a great support move pool and it almost always gets to choose two of them, which is great. However, on this set, I only had one moveselot remaining, which I settled on Agility. Agility is fantastic on Zapdos as it means you prevent Starmie from trading its life for a Spin, and also means you hit Gengar first, only needing 30% ish of chip damage on it, depending on the spread. You also prevent Aero from revenge killing you, another beautiful tactic. Zapdos also finds itself plenty of free opportunities to Agility - think against a Skarmory using Protect or a Swampert Ice Beaming you as it prepares to die to HP Grass in order for Gengar to have safe entry. This thing is a terror at +2 Speed with Spikes down. Just don't switch out of DD Tar at +2 when T-bolt'ing 2x wins you the game outright.

Offensive Gengar pretty much needs Fire Punch + HP Grass, as being walled by Steels is untenable today, and you need to hit Pursuit Tar for SE damage without NEEDING to click Dynamic Punch. The 90% damage on Swampert is extremely important as well, just time your hit off so you aren't taking a Torrent Hydro Pump to the face - it might OHKO this bulkless Gengar lol. Since I really needed to keep pressure on one annoying fat ass - SpDef Zapdos, Ice Punch was the fourth move of choice. It also meant DD Mence can't set up on me, which is very important. I had two strong Electric Mons in the lineup so I wasn't too upset that my best move against opposing Waters was a 70 BP Hidden Power Grass. It's still coming from Max SpA, so yeah it's hitting super hard. So the final moveset was Dynamic Punch / HP Grass / Fire Punch / Ice Punch.

Last but not least: Skarmory. A lot of Tar / Skarm / Gar builds can be dangerously weak to certain Heracross movesets. Yes, I had both a Drill Peck Zapdos and a Jolteon on this team, but still you never know what Heracross could be using or how fast it might be. Drill Peck on Skarmory had presented itself as a viable option for me. In addition to the Heracross OHKO, Drill Peck on Skarmory provides one of the coolest techs in ADV: forced damage on Gengar. This is like the only legit chip damage on Gengar in the tier, short of Rock Slide on Flygon (funny how I also have that move on this team...). Skarmory has a pretty decent Att stat, so it does a nice 30% or so chunk to any Gengar switching in. Sometimes the best play depending on the game state is to Drill Peck after Gar WoW's you, not wanting to T-bolt into the revealed Jolteon, and then Drill Peck AGAIN, for the 30% combined damage. Now that opposing Gengar has taken enough chip damage to probably be finished off later by your Zapdos's Thunderbolt, or two of your own Gengar's Ice Punches. These are really important in terms of how winning games actually happens with this team.

So, there you have it. The full team is as follows:

AlmostHadMeFooled (Tyranitar) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

OnlyGodCanForgive (Skarmory) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Drill Peck
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Roar

NothinWithoutYou (Jolteon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Baton Pass
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roar
- Thunderbolt

TruthICouldTell (Gengar) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA
- Dynamic Punch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

HopeUFindUrPeace (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 228 Atk / 140 SpA / 140 Spe
Mild Nature
- Agility
- Drill Peck
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt

TheyWontKnowUrName (Flygon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 208 HP / 136 Atk / 144 Def / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Toxic


*Nicknames come from the song Praying - Kesha. I can't believe I just wrote that.*

A few random comments regarding spreads and movesets:
  • Gengar is Hasty and not Naive because 0 HP / 0- SpDef Gengar has a good chance to be OHKO'd by Offensive Starmie Hydro Pump, a far worse scenario for this team than being OHKO'd by Aero.
  • Flygon's Att stat was a jump point; it is otherwise arbitrary. 20 Speed on Flygon outpaces Endeavor Swampert.
  • Gengar has enough Speed to outspeed Adamant Dugtrio; it is also a jump point.
  • No bulk on Jolteon because the closest relevant benchmark is 44 HP to always survive Aero Rock Slide. However, with HP Ice giving a 30 Def IV, this was "technically" a waste since it needed further investment (shoutouts BKC). Also the added power was appreciated on this team.
  • 0 Speed on Skarmory because like I said before, I don't care if opposing Skarmory WW me first. What are they going to WW in that I care about? Tyranitar is the only one affected by Spikes and they have to trade 95% of Thunderbolt damage just to Toxic one of the Electric Mons.
  • Dynamic Punch Gengar gives an out against Pursuit Tar, who otherwise looks annoying for the team, trapping a key Offensive threat.
  • In my game against undisputed, I crept Claydol with my Tyranitar (at the expense of bulk), because I was anticipating a Claydol + Magneton team, and I wanted every possible advantage I could get against that type of build. Unless you are anticipating specifically Clay + Mag, don't bother with Speed investment on the Tar.
Threat list:

DD Salamence:

This is the number one threat to the team. Since the Gengar isn't bulky, it can't switch in on a DD. If there are Spikes down or if your Tyranitar isn't at full HP, it can't switch in either. Basically the counter to this is predicting with the Flygon on Protect vs. DD turns. It's tough and would be a lot easier with a more defensive spread. Up to you to decide.

Offensive Suicune:

Basically means you are losing one of your Electric Mons early. I almost always choose Jolteon because Zapdos is usually more valuable as a late game cleaner, and because Jolteon's secondary duties, defensively at least (switching in on Gengar and opposing Electrics), can sort of be covered by your Tyranitar and Flygon, whereas Zapdos's duties to the team, namely switching in on Metagross, can not be picked up by anyone else after Skarmory gets Magneton'd.

Claydol + Magneton OR Refresh Claydol:

The typical annoyer to any Skarm + Gengar team. Tar is a pretty solid weapon against this combo, but you've gotta play super aggressively and double switch Tar in on Claydol with a Spike down as much as possible. Force it to take the big HP Bug hit in exchange for a Spin. Gengar can take two Psychics so make that trade if it means you kill the 'Dol. Magneton isn't as bad with Flygon around but yeah you need to play super tight against this combination.

Taunt Skarmory:

Not really a threat to be honest. Just make one nice double switch back to your Skarmory against whatever their response to your Gengar / Jolteon / Zapdos, and Spike up. Only way this is really threatening is if it is paired with a Jolteon, i.e. something that threatens your Skarmory switch in.

DD Ice Beam Tar:

This is only REALLY bad if it has SpA investment and OHKO's the Flygon, or if it has Lum Berry and you can't even desperation Confuse it with Dynamic Punch. Basically any Flygon team will be weak to DD Ice Beam Tar from now on.

MixMence:

Kinda not fair that I'm dinging myself for this since every team that lacks a Milotic, P2, or Bold Blissey is technically MixMence weak. But yeah this Mon forces me to take damage on my Gar, Skarm, and / or Jolteon. Basically something valuable is going to take chip damage which means it won't be able to take an important hit later on.

Well, I am just about spent. I considered actually going through my SPL game against undisputed as I thought it was a great one that showcased both of our teams. We had the exceptionally rare mirror dual-Electric matchup, which presents a lot of intriguing mind games for both players. But I've droned on for a long time now and I should really wrap this up. Maybe I will respond to this post later on with more content if I feel inclined to do so.

My final thoughts are just to please try out this team. It is really a beautiful ADV team with the Offensive synergy all the team members have with one another. Agility Zapdos and Dynamic Punch Gengar are terrifying threats that are not to be taken lightly.

I hope you have all enjoyed my content, look for more to come in the near future.
 

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