Spiritomb (GP 2/2)

Not quite done with 4th gen yet!


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/spiritomb

[Overview]

<p>Spiritomb often faces stiff competition from the Rotom formes due to their useful resistances, wide and unique movepools, and Levitate. However, unlike Rotom-A, it doesn't sport a nasty Dark-type weakness which can be exploited by physical behemoths such as Tyranitar and Scizor. Spiritomb is a solid and effective check to major threats such as Rotom-A, Machamp, Azelf, and Lucario, and access to Pressure further sets it apart from other bulky Ghost-types, as Spiritomb can PP stall many Pokemon to death. Spiritomb is also one of the only few true Machamp counters. Overall, Spiritomb has enough to set itself apart from the Rotom formes, and can function as an effective spinblocker even in the Standard environment.</p>

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Spiritomb's main attraction over Rotom-A is that it is not Pursuit bait, and this set aims to take advantage of that. Rest allows Spiritomb to recover HP while curing status. Sleep Talk as always, pairs well with Rest; it ensures that Spiritomb isn't a sitting duck for two turns, and if it selects Will-O-Wisp, Spiritomb can actually spread burns even when asleep. Will-O-Wisp shuts down most physical attackers, and the residual damage caused by the burn allows Spiritomb to wear down many threats. Shadow Ball is used as the STAB, mono-attacking option over Dark Pulse for two reasons: Spiritomb is too slow to abuse Dark Pulse's chance to flinch, and the occasional Special Defense drops afforded by Shadow Ball can actually force switches.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Taunt can be used over Sleep Talk to prevent Pokemon such as Skarmory and Forretress from setting up entry hazards, as they are common switch-ins to Spiritomb. Hidden Power Fighting can replace Will-O-Wisp as it gives Spiritomb perfect coverage alongside Shadow Ball, but spreading burns and shutting down physical attackers are too good to pass up. Pursuit can be used over Shadow Ball with a Careful nature to make Spiritomb a better check to Gengar, Starmie, and Azelf. Alternative EV spreads can be used too: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm nature balances Spiritomb's defenses after inflicting a burn, and 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD with a Bold nature to make Spiritomb a better physical wall.</p>

<p>Though Spiritomb itself functions as a team player, it will need quite some support to be effective. Tanks such as Heatran and Blissey walk all over Spiritomb, as they can freely switch into Will-O-Wisp or Shadow Ball and wear it down, or in Blissey's case, force it to use Rest by hitting it with Toxic and switch to a counter. A strong Fighting-type thus makes a good teammate, as it can OHKO both of the aforementioned tanks. Infernape in particular also takes down Pokemon such as Skarmory and Forretress, who commonly use Spiritomb as setup bait, as well as Scizor, who can hurt Spiritomb with a Choice Band U-turn, making it an excellent partner for Spiritomb. Ironically, Blissey and Skarmory too make great teammates; the former sponges powerful special attacks for Spiritomb, while the latter sets up entry hazards that wear Spiritomb's checks down and Skarmory can OHKO Breloom with Brave Bird, who can prove to be troublesome with its immunity to Will-O-Wisp once Toxic Orb activates. Spiritomb also aids in safeguarding Skarmory's entry hazards with its ability to spinblock.</p>

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although this set is a gimmicky one, it works well when used properly. It is particularly useful on a stall team as the main purpose of this set is to wear down Pokemon using Curse and Will-O-Wisp. Since Spiritomb has three immunities and no weaknesses, it forces a lot of switches. Pursuit is therefore the preferred STAB move as its power doubles when the target switches out. This allows Spiritomb to trap various early and late game threats such as Gengar, Starmie, and Azelf, which are all weak to Pursuit. Spiritomb can also take on Pokemon that set-up later in the game, such as Snorlax and Suicune, with this set as it can wear them down very quickly with both Curse and Will-O-Wisp. This is also very helpful to stall teams which are unable to deal with set up Pokemon, especially when they are the last Pokemon left and cannot be phazed. These traits are the reasons to consider using Spiritomb over Rotom-A.</p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread maximizes Spiritomb's Special Defense because Will-O-Wisp halves the burnt target's Attack, reducing the need to have a high Defense EVs investment. Shadow Ball with Calm nature can be used over Pursuit with Careful nature. Calm nature also helps in increasing Spiritomb's special bulk. However, Pursuit with a Careful nature is usually the better option.</p>

<p>A cleric is highly recommended as this set does not carry Sleep Talk, leaving Spiritomb a setup bait as it sleeps for two turns after using Rest. Since Spiritomb often replaces Rotom-A, most teams do not have a reliable way to take down Skarmory and Gyarados. Therefore a Choice Scarf Jirachi with ThunderPunch helps in solving this problem. Gyarados has to be wary of Will-O-Wisp but it can hold a Lum Berry to cure its burn. A Rapid Spinner helps Spiritomb a lot because for Spiritomb to set up a Curse, it will need to be at a substantial amount of health. As far as teammates go, Blissey is a great option as it can wake Spiritomb from its slumber after the latter uses Rest or pass Wishes to Spiritomb. Several physical walls such as Steelix, Skarmory, and Forretress all make good teammates. They can also sponge physical attacks from foes which are not affected by Will-O-Wisp or have the Guts ability.</p>


[Other Options]

<p>Sucker Punch is Spiritomb's strongest priority move, but is unreliable and has low PP, making it a bad choice for a mono-attacking option; Shadow Sneak might be considered for its reliability, but it is too weak to deal significant damage. Pain Split can be used to recover health as well as inflict damage, but Rest is more reliable. Taunt prevents Pokemon from setting up entry hazards and shuts down opposing walls. A Trick + Choice item set can be used to mess up various walls, though several other Pokemon outclass Spiritomb for this role. Finally, Spiritomb has boosting options in Calm Mind and Nasty Plot, but it's sadly too slow to sweep effectively.</p>


[Checks and Counters]

<p>Heatran walks all over Spiritomb, as it resists both Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse while taking even Hidden Power Fighting comfortably, gets a Flash Fire boost from Will-O-Wisp, and can take it out with its powerful Fire-type attacks. Setup sweepers with Taunt, such as Gyarados, do a great job of checking Spiritomb as well, as they can shut it down completely and proceed to set up on it. Blissey doesn't mind taking a Will-O-Wisp thanks to Natural Cure, and laughs at Spiritomb's other attacks as well, though it can only slap a Toxic back on Spiritomb. Choice Band users such as Metagross, Dragonite, and Scizor can muscle through weakened Spiritomb with their sheer power, though they need to be careful when switching in, as Will-O-Wisp will severely cripple them. Finally, if Spiritomb lacks Taunt, Pokemon such as Skarmory and Forretress can freely switch in and use it as setup bait.</p>
 
Whether or not you are running Will-o-wisp, I think you should run a specially defensive spread on the main Resttalk set. Spiritomb does a much better job of walling special attackers, many of which are VERY hard to handle, giving him a unique niche. In particular Azelf and Gengar are nightmares for any stall/defensive team and Spiritomb laughs at them, he even spin blocks Starmie AND out tanks it! Its typing may allow it to wall fighting/dark combos from the likes of Lucario and Machamp, but Will-o-wisp isn't good to rely on and there are better choices to take on both of them. Overall, running near max special defense allows you to easily handle arguably the 3 most common and biggest threats to a defensive team.

There is a Dark Pulse/CM/Resttalk set with max Defense, however I wouldn't personally use it because it's not particulary hard to shut down with its not-so-stellar defense. Ive heard it is great against stall, but it seems like a sitting duck in many situations.

An interesting set I saw once was a Cursetomb-

248 HP, 8 def, 252 spD Careful
-Curse
-Will-o-wisp
-Rest
-Pursuit

This was one of the sets used on imperfectluck's RMT that hit #1 on the ladder, it meshes the job of killing last pokemon stat-uppers with its niche of beating Azelf, Gengar, and Starmie. There are probably other options including Taunt to prevent the last pokemon stat-upper from resting but im not the most familiar with this set so ill leave this up to someone who can say more about the set.
 

Setsuna

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In my experience, Spiritomb nearly always needs a lot of investment in Special Defense in order to do its best. Pokemon such as Gengar, Rotom-A, and Starmie are ones that Spiritomb can give a pretty hard time in most circumstances. For instance, against 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 SpD Calm Spiritomb, LO Gengar needs SR in order for Shadow Ball to be a safe 2HKO; and 0 SpA Rotom-A / Starmie need both SR in order to score a 3HKO with Thunderbolt and Surf, respectively. Without a +SpD nature and a few EVs in that stat, Spiritomb can't achieve any of this, and that's really bad. On the physically defensive side, with 148 EVs Spiritomb can still win against max Attack Machamp (1vs1 factoring only on SR damage, not Will-o-Wisp's work on Machamp's side) and outstall Stone Edge's PPs with no problems.

To be honest, I'd definitely go with that EV spread that I used for my example and that you have listed under AC, for the reasons explained above. Using a physically defensive variant for this set isn't the way to go, in my opinion.
 
The physical spread's main benefits are checking SD Lucario more efficiently and that's pretty much it. Setsuna's mixed spread seems the best and should be the main choice imo. Also, Taunt definitely needs more attention; Tomb is going to be blocking Forretress's Spins alot and needs to be able to prevent it from setting up multiple Spikes. Taunt also is a weapon against other stall teams, making it a solid choice. I think it could be slashed in with Sleep Talk, mentioning Aroma Bliss as a partner (good synergy, both work best on stall).

Also, why is there no mention of Pursuit? It's one of Spiritomb's biggest assets. Trapping Rotom-A / Gengar means Forretress can Spin, trapping Starmie means you can set up your hazards without fear of them being blown away.
 
I'd like to see CB Tomb get a mention, actually, if not a whole set. Trick/Sucker Punch/Pursuit/Will-o-wisp is better in terms of spinblocking than Rotom-A. It works fantastically on stall since it both keeps your hazards down, and can easily take out opposing spinblockers.
 
I also think a SpD variant is the way to go; your beating machamp anyhow and the EVs are necessary to beat the special attackers that Setsuna listed.
 

supermarth64

Here I stand in the light of day
is a Contributor Alumnus
The mixed defensive set is now the main option with the physical option in AC.

Curse seems highly risky due to the need to be at least 50% HP unless you want Spiritomb to die and because stall teams should have some way of stopping last-Pokemon sweeps. Suicune is stopped by Rotom-A (so if your stall team is stopped by Suicune, you should probs use Rotom-A instead) and Snorlax can be Intimidate/Roar shuffed around.

Taunt will be mentioned AC, forgot Spiritomb can get that. Will mention Aromatherapy support moreso if using Taunt.

Pursuit is mentioned. CB Tomb will stay in OO because it can be very hard to use (Gengar has Sub on your Sucker Punches and can deal massive damage and can't tank Thunderbolts/Surfs as well). Mentioned Crotomb in OO.
 
Suicune is stopped by Rotom-A (so if your stall team is stopped by Suicune, you should probs use Rotom-A instead) and Snorlax can be Intimidate/Roar shuffed around.
Uhhh no. Suicune isn't stopped by Rotom-A at all. T-bolt does 46.5% - 55.4% before a Calm Mind, so it's very easy to CM twice, Rest, and then win, barring a crit. Snorlax can play a similar game. Curse definitely needs a mention.
 

Setsuna

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That depends on the game style / set that you decide to go with when using Rotom-A, evidently. If Rotom is an offensive variant, then Thunderbolt will hurt Suicune, not to mention that CS Trick is something Suicune really hates taking, and LO Thunderbolt from 252 SpA Rotom-A is terribly dangerous for this guy. But, yeah, standard Rotom-A variants not always pose a problem for that kind of Suicune.

Anyways...

QC APPROVED (1/2)
 
QC APPROVED (2/2)

Looks good

edit: okay approval will be rescinded until you sort that out

edit 2: I approve of the Curse set, talked to SM64 on IRC
 

supermarth64

Here I stand in the light of day
is a Contributor Alumnus
Hi I'm alive but I'm testing out a Curse set so this will be put on hold for now.

Mods please don't change the topic title.
 

supermarth64

Here I stand in the light of day
is a Contributor Alumnus
Sorry for the double post but the Curse set is now up. I just need Setsuna/SDS to approve of it cuz:

[18:35:36] <supermarth64> ok so it's up
[18:35:44] <supermarth64> can i just say you approve of it
[18:35:47] <meganfox> yeah
 
Since Spiritomb replaces Rotom-A, some teams don't have anything to take out Skarm/Gyara so Scarf Jirachi with Tbolt helps
From the curse set, just pointing out that it is viable to run alongside Rotom-A. Spiritomb takes on special spinners better while Rotom-A handles the physical ones, this was the plan on the #1 RMT I first saw this set on. Things like Donphan (which are good now that Assurance works properly) will be very hard to block with Spiritomb alone and Rotom has a hard time with Starmie. Plus, double ghost lets you block Foresight Spin from Hitmontop :)
 
Just a suggestion: CB Tomb can have Shadow Sneak over Will-o-Wisp. Beats Gengar and Starmie very reliably if you don't mind the loss in power temporarily. Tomb also has like zero coverage moves apart from Return so Shadow Sneak isn't too bad.
 

supermarth64

Here I stand in the light of day
is a Contributor Alumnus
Still alive, school's over now and I finished moving to my new house so I have more free time on my hands.
 
I don't know how you'd feel about this, but since you mentioned Aroma support in the team comments, a slash of Shadow Sneak is deserving next to Sleep Talk IMO. As one of the people that heavily used Spiritomb in UU, Shadow Sneak should function the same way in OU, giving teams a false sense of security if they decide to stay in on a Shadow Ball and aren't KO'd.
 
Amateur GP check, so take it with a grain of salt.

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[Overview]

<p>Spiritomb often faces stiff competition with from various Rotom forms, due to various factors such as their useful resistances, their wide and unique movepool and their ability, Levitate. One key thing which makes it not completely outclassed by Rotoms forms is that it is not weak to Dark- type, meaning that Scarf Tyranitar, one of the most common Pokemon in the metagame, can not cannot Crunch or Pursuit it as easily as it can on all Rotom forms. Spiritomb is a solid and effective check to major threats such as Rotom-A, Machamp, Azelf, and Lucario. Spiritomb can also be used as a Rapid Spin blocker, but is much more reliant to Rapid Spin on due to it not having Levitate.(Don't understand what you're trying to say here.) Spiritomb isn't as unique as the Rotom forms.</p>

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Spiritomb's main use over Rotom-A is that it is not Pursuit bait, and therefore the this moveset is tailored to take advantage of this. Rest is Spiritomb's most reliable form of recovery as it can also be used to cure status conditions. Sleep Talk works alongside with Rest. The reason Shadow Ball is used over Dark Pulse is because Spiritomb is too slow to take advantage of Dark Pulse's flinch rate. Shadow Ball can also lower the foe opposing Pokemon's Special Defense by one stage which is quite useful for forcing switches and getting more Pokemon burnt inflicting burns on more Pokemon. Will-O-Woisp completely cripples Physical threats.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

</p>Taunt can be used over Sleep Talk to prevent Pokemon, such as Skarmory and Forretress, from setting up entry hazards. They are a good switch in to Spiritomb when it is switched in to try to block Rapid Spin.(Don't know what you mean.) Hidden Power Fighting can be used over Will-O-Wisp as it gives Spiritomb almost-perfect coverage, but loses the ability to inflict residual damage each turn and also makes it a less-better Physical wall Spiritomb lose Physical walling capabilities. Pursuit can be used over Shadow Ball can be used with a Careful nature can be used to make Spiritomb a better check to Gengar, Starmie, and Azelf. Also a Alternate EV spreads can be used, one being
248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm nature can be used to make Spiritomb's overall defenses better after inflicting a burn. Another EV spread than can be used is; 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD with a Bold nature to make Spiritomb a better Physical wall.</p>

<p>As for teammates, Blissey can be used to take any Special move and can also function as a cleric with Aromatherapy. Hippowdon on the other hand. can be used to take strong Physical moves. Pokemon that can lay down various forms of entry hazards are also helpful, as it does damage to every Pokemon switched in and gives Spiritomb a purpose to be used as a Rapid Spin blocker.</p>

</p>There are a few notable Pokemon that counter Spiritomb such as Choice Band Scizor which does a lot of damage to Spiritomb with a U-Turn. Although Scizor can not really switch into Spiritomb as Will-O-Wisp really hurts it. Blissey can also stop Spiritomb on in its tracks because it is not affected by Shadow Ball and Will-O-Wisp does not hurt it too much., as Blissey has access to Natural Cure. It also has access to Toxic which hurts Spitiomb. Although Rest can be used to clear Toxic, it is not that reliable in this scenario as it gives the opponent a free turn to switch out. Heatran can also completely wall Spiritomb as it resists Shadow Ball and gets a free boost from Will-O-Wisp. Breloom is also a somewhat decent counter to Spiritomb as it becomes immune to Will-O-Wisp after Toxic Orb activates. Both, Forretress and Skarmory can set up entry hazards freely.

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>In order to take down long lasting Pokemon such as Suicune and Snorlax, Spiritomb with this set can be used since many stall oriented teams have difficulty in taking down Spiritomb. This set doubles Spiritomb's reliability in getting rid of offensive threats such as Gengar, Starmie and Azelf who are all weak to Pursuit. Curse raises Spiritomb's defense and attack making it a better physical wall. Will-O-Wisp makes it an even more better wall. Rest is Spiritomb's most reliable form of recovery and can cure status condition.
</p>

Here I think you may have forgotten the fact that Curse acts differently when used by a Ghost.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread used maximizes Spiritomb's Special Defense because Curse and Will-O-Wisp helps in raising Spiritombs defense. Shadow Ball with Calm nature can be used over Pursuit with Careful nature. Calm nature also helps in increasing Spiritomb's bulk.</p>


<p>A cleric is highly recommended as this set does not carry Sleep Talk. Although once Spiritomb sets up a few Curses, it would be pointless to switch out as it would have high enough defenses to take a few hits. Since Spiritomb replaces Rotom-A, most teams do not have a reliable way to take down Skarmory and Gyarados, therefore Scarf Jirachi with Thunder Bolt helps in solving this problem. Although Gyarados gets hurt by Will-O-Wisp, it can just use Substitue to block Will-O-Wisp and set up with Dragon Dance. A Rapid Spinner helps Spiritomb a lot because if it wants to set up with Curse it will need to be at a good amount of health. As for teammates, Blissey can be used. As well as several physical walls such as Steelix, Skarmory, and Forretress.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Sucker Punch is Spiritomb's strongest priority move but is not very reliable and has a low max PP. Shadow Sneak is a weaker but more reliable priority. Pain Split can be used to recover health as well as inflict damage on the foe Pokemon, but RestTalk is more reliable. Taunt can be used to stop Pokemon from setting up Entry Hazards and can be used to stop Blissey. A Trick + Choice item set can be used to mess up various walls, although several other Pokemon outclass Spiritomb in doing this job. Nasty Plot can be used to set up but Spiritomb is too slow to sweep. Calm Mind is a more reliable set up move but, again, Spiritomb is too slow to sweep.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Heatran is arguably the best Ccheck to Spiritomb. It resists both of Spiritomb's STAB's and gets a nice boost from Will-O-Wisp with Flash Fire. Shaymin is a strong special attacker that doesn't mind being burned because of its ability, Natural Cure. Crocune can set up all over on Spiritomb with Calm Minds. Magnezone can both hit hard and set up all over on Spiritomb. Blissey can also completely wall Spiritomb if Spiritomb is not carrying Taunt. Taunters like Pokemon with Taunt, such as Gyarados, can prevent Spiritomb from doing anything. Spikers Pokemon that can set up entry hazards, and other Pokemon that set up entry hazards like, such as Skarmory and Forretress can set up all over on Spiritomb. Powerful attackers, like Choice Band Dragonite and Metagross, can muscle through Spiritomb and eventually KO it. </p>


I didn't check the Curse set because you've confused the mechanics up and it doesn't make sense. Someone more experienced should go over this as I've probably left a lot out.
 

Fatecrashers

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please get rid of the curse set altogether as it is extremely idiotic

curse works differently for ghost-types you see
 

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