SPL Midseason

[ABR]

For the upcoming SPL and future iterations, we are making changes to how midseason operates. That being said, TD discussions have not reached a conclusive consensus so we are looking to garner community input on the matter.

What we're left with now is essentially 3 options, which I'll outline below. Note that, for options 1 and 2 (options that keep a midseason auction), we would be making changes to who is eligible for the mids auction. Players would only be eligible for the midseason auction if they signed up for the regular auction prior. So, this would allow teams to patch holes with cheaper players who simply didn't make the cut in the initial auction, and it would eliminate the system of expensive players seeking a cheaper route by skipping the initial auction and signing up only for mids. This ruling is entirely set in stone if a midseason auction remains. Additionally, if sellbacks remain (options 1 and 2 again), the standards would be raised to match that of our team cancer policy. If you'd want to sell back a player, you'd have to prove they're a team cancer and get them banned. The options are as follows.

1) Keep the midseason week, and the auction. Besides the above ruling, the schedule and timing of midseason would otherwise be exactly the same as last SPL.

2) Remove the midseason week, but keep the auction and run it alongside week 4 / 5. Specifically, we would hold signups during week 4, sellbacks/cancers would have to be reported by the end of week 4, and the auction itself + trades would take place during week 5. Players acquired in Week 5 wouldn't be allowed to play until Week 6.

3) Remove the midseason auction entirely. This should be pretty self explanatory, but it would remove all that remains of midseason: the week off, the auction, sellbacks, trades, etc. You could still remove someone from your team if they're a team cancer but you would not get any replacement.

Small details can be adjusted as needed, but this is the general outline of how we intend to proceed. Please note that we are hoping to come to a decision within a week so that managers can properly prepare, so please keep the discussion focused. If you want to get your thoughts in, speak now.

 

[bro fist]

I'd be ok with option 2. Having participated in multiple spls as both a player and a manager, I can tell you that the week off during midseason hardly does anything to add to the tournament. If anything, it messes with the overall pace of the tournament by having us essentially waste time doing things that could easily be done within a normal playing week; it's just a bad disruption of rhythm for what can be a super grindy tour, and I don't think we'd lose too much from just getting rid of it completely. So yea, auction during week 4 or 5.

 

[aim]

agreeing with john. midseason is wack, boring, whatever you wanna call it. killing momentum for the winning team and motivation for the losing teams to come back. just a waste of time. option 2 seems like the best bet. a week in advance of signups is plenty. never understood why we needed the entire week to figure out bids either. option 2 please

 

[Hogg]

I definitely support option 2. I like the mids auction in theory: it's a unique part of SPL, and it's a really cool opportunity for newer players to break into the team tour scene. But the week itself just sucks. As a spectator it's boring, as a player or manager it's just a huge momentum killer. Especially with the other changes we're making, I don't think it'll be too arduous to run the auction alongside the week itself for teams or for hosts, so it's a good middle of the road option.

 

[MANNAT]

I think anything but option 1 is fine because the week off really kills hype for the tour and leads to demotivating for certain teams and is just wack in general. This tournament is only 9 weeks long, that doesn’t really warrant a 1 week break halfway through. Personally, I’m of the opinion the midseason auction should be nuked altogether if no one new is allowed to sign up, but I’d be fine with either option.

 

[Sam]

allow trades before week 4 regardless of what is chosen

 

[tennisace]

I like option 2 and also

allow trades before week 4 regardless of what is chosen

It's silly to have trades only occur in a 1 week period when we had a situation last season where players were effectively benched because they knew they were being traded. It makes for awkward situations and does nothing to help competitiveness.

 

[teal6]

please yeah get rid of mids. option 2.

i'm a little tentative about allowing trades for huge periods of time because it's fairly abusable. i legitimately was going to give obii half my team if things panned out a little differently last year, having a huge trade window kinda extends the bad faith acting thats possible, but when you're a manager you don't really care about setting bad precedent you care about your team. i probably prefer option 2 as written and the trade window to be week 4/5 rather than the first 4 weeks all being open.

 

[tennisace]

please yeah get rid of mids. option 2.

i'm a little tentative about allowing trades for huge periods of time because it's fairly abusable. i legitimately was going to give obii half my team if things panned out a little differently last year, having a huge trade window kinda extends the bad faith acting thats possible, but when you're a manager you don't really care about setting bad precedent you care about your team. i probably prefer option 2 as written and the trade window to be week 4/5 rather than the first 4 weeks all being open.

4 weeks is not a huge period of time, it's less than half the regular season and it give managers the flexability to make changes when they think they need to. Plus, it gives managers time to negotiate. I may get a trade offer week 2, and then decide to hold off until 3 or 4 to act on it depending on how those weeks shake out. With a 1 week negotiation window you're kind of forced to make a snap decision based on how your team is at a particular moment.

 

[Rewer]

I believe option 2 is what it should've always been.

The way its set up now, money is spread too unevenly at the beginning and a bunch of big names that didnt come in the initial auction are coming midseason and leading to bizarre bidding deals that lead to 3k Earthworm/Tiba for example. It will make the auction much better too, no more 30k saving bs.

 

[Ragnarock]

Option 2 is fine, the only thing I don’t like is the player not being able to play until Week 6 part. All previous SPLs you had players that had a chance to play a lil longer after mids (I’ll use Nat as an explain for last year) to give cushion for a little more playing time, which is playing 5 times instead of 4. Week 6 means that assuming a team doesn’t make playoffs, they only get a chance to play 4 times up until Week 9 and it just doesn’t sound fair to me and I rather keep the consistency. I agree with everything involved in option 2, but maybe try to either put up the sign ups a little bit earlier say, maybe at a Saturday of Week 3 and have the auction within midweek of Week 4 or just get done the ENTIRE process during Week 4. I don’t have an issue with if we did the latter as we should all be able to multitask, but either option would work for the midseason pick-up player to play an extra week if we wanted, not to mention that just in case if a team is doing badly, an extra week after a good player could make or break their season.

 

[Saria]

We are making a final decision on this soon. If you have anything to add, do it fast.

 

[Finchinator]

I am fine with option 2 or 3, but support option 2.

The week in the middle of the season should be eliminated as the playerbase clearly feels it does not belong. As for the midseason auction itself, I am pretty indifferent to it. I suppose I would favor it being kept if only because it rewards strategical hesitation later on in the initial auction and having a midseason auction is a status quo that I don't take much of an issue with. So long as the initial sign-up list leftovers forms the player pool, I support option 2.

I do have a brief proposal though: move the timeline proposed under option 2 in the OP up a week. This would give midseason picks the same amount of time to play as before (weeks 5-9), make the auction during week 4, and make sign-ups during week 3. I feel like the trade-off between having an extra week to determine what your team needs is worth having another week of the player you get in the midseason auction, especially seeing as this is the same amount of time you have had these players on roster in past seasons and there has been no issue with that. If people feel that this trade-off isn't for the best, then I am content with the OP's current proposition.

Not sure if this is the place, but I also echo Tennis/Sam on the trade matter. Trades should be allowed from the start of the season until the end of the midseason auction. I am fine with them being implemented between weeks each week, but fr Mr.E should've been a Ruiner

 

[d0nut]

While I'd be mostly in agreement with option 2, I think preserving the amount of time midseason picks are able to play would be preferable as Finch stated above. That said I think another solution to consider could be something like midseason signups going up during the weekend of Week 3 til the weekend of Week 4, then holding the auction during the weekend of Week 4 + Monday, and possibly Tuesday into the next week.

The idea would be to make this 1-2 day period extending into next week a sort of "time off" similar to midseason as it currently exists, except abbreviated to the point that it wouldn't disrupt the flow of the tournament or momentum of teams going forward, while still allowing for a bit of down time for midseason pickups to be added to their team's channel + trades to be conducted in such a way that there is no "awkward period" where a player might end up having to contribute to a team they might no longer be a part of. Being able to add these players to the channel and talk with them in advance before Week 5 where they might have to start would be more manageable with this in mind since these players might not be online between the time they are drafted and the next week starts otherwise. It could also serve as a good last chance for managers to trade and work out deals centered around their midseason decisions without having to juggle the uncertainty of the outcome of the current week and their standings before moving on to Week 5 where trading would no longer be possible. This short midseason break could also be an optimal time to enable any sellback credits from earlier in the season if need be.

The main reason I think we could get away with this change is that it only really impacts 1-2 days during a single week of the tournament, and in particular with it being on Monday/Tuesday not much would be lost as probably less than 5% of matches in SPL's history (or most team tournaments / playoff games in general) happen on those days early in the week so its not exactly the biggest deal. The idea of a trade window lasting a couple days isn't even unprecedented given it occurred between Phase 1 + 2 of snake the year before. That said if people dislike the trade-off of not knowing their opponents til a bit later and therefore not being able to schedule or prepare quite as well in advance that would be understandable and I would be perfectly fine with option 2 going forward (so long as the time frame is about a week earlier like Finch said), but I still think this idea might be something worth consideration and wouldn't mind hearing what TDs/others might think of it, or potential ways to improve upon it.

 

[Mr.E]

So is there a reason I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Don't delete my posts for no reason, thanks. Likes are much less visible.

Midseason week off is lame as shit, especially since nobody is cool enough to take the side show stuff even remotely seriously. I'll go against the grain and voice the preference for #3 because I don't like how stupid midseason auction shenanigans like random-popular-player-didn't-sign-up-but-said-they-would-at-midseason diminishes the excitement and strategy of the season start auction (also the distinction between sellback credits and OG auction credits is dumb, get rid of it even if you change literally nothing else). Trades should just be allowed whenever up until an arbitrary deadline -- if that's week 4 then sure whatever -- and be processed as they occur.

Mr.E should've been a Ruiner

and still quoting this truth, yalls owe me a third trophy for this shit

 

[MANNAT]

I don't like how stupid midseason auction shenanigans like random-popular-player-didn't-sign-up-but-said-they-would-at-midseason diminishes the excitement and strategy of the season start auction.

Players would only be eligible for the midseason auction if they signed up for the regular auction prior.

Just saying...

Regardless, I still agree that we should nuke the midseason auction because the tour frankly isn't long enough to mandate having a midseason auction in the first place, so teams frankly shouldn't need to retool after only a month of competition. If the tour had like a 3 months+ regular season or something, then maybe I could see it mandating a midseason auction. I think that the only thing the midseason auction does is encourage teams to not spend their money in the initial auction "just in case", and that ends up killing the hype in the initial auction in the first place. Obviously, little to no teams are going to be perfect, but that's the whole point of these tournaments, you make due with what you have after the initial auction and use the players you have to their fullest ability. I understand the want for a midseason auction for giving up and rising players a chance to help teams plug up holes in their rosters, but there's really not any official tours that are going to reach a significant round by that point for players to really "break out" in to show they're good enough for SPL that haven't already concluded before the initial auction, so I don't think the trade off is worth it here.

 

[tennisace]

Regardless, I still agree that we should nuke the midseason auction because the tour frankly isn't long enough to mandate having a midseason auction in the first place, so teams frankly shouldn't need to retool after only a month of competition. If the tour had like a 3 months+ regular season or something, then maybe I could see it mandating a midseason auction.

Frankly, I think this is an absurd argument. There's generally a week+ from after auction to week 1, then 4 weeks of playing. It's a lot of time to figure out where the holes are in your roster / where you need to shore up / whether or not various players are working out. You can look at that number and say "oh it's _only_ 4 weeks" but until you play or you manage and you're prepping and chatting about the tournament almost every day for 11+ weeks you frankly don't know how long it really is.

I think that the only thing the midseason auction does is encourage teams to not spend their money in the initial auction "just in case", and that ends up killing the hype in the initial auction in the first place.

This is SEVERELY mitigated this coming season with both the retain changes and proposed option 2 (which seems to be the general consensus here). Essentially, there's a massive influx of talent in the auction this season, so on the whole there's going to be more bidding. Couple that with the mid-season pool being the remainder of the auction pool; there will be no saving money for a "big fish" (heist, earthworm, etc) at midseason. I don't expect there to be much in the way of bidding wars at that point, teams will pick up a player or 2 for ~3k.

The reason in the first place for teams being able to hoard cash in auction is if they hit it big on their retains from the season before, and they get multiple top tier players for ~10-13k. With almost everybody back in auction, teams will need to spend to get talent or risk being left behind.

Obviously, little to no teams are going to be perfect, but that's the whole point of these tournaments, you make due with what you have after the initial auction and use the players you have to their fullest ability.

Since when? The point of these tournaments is to win, not to win while being locked into a roster at the start. There's always issues that pop up; a player cancers their way off the team, or severely under performs, or doesn't have the time to prep as much anymore due to real life commitments. It's always a good thing to get fresh blood in at about the half-way point, because you get different perspectives and new ideas and new energy.

I understand the want for a midseason auction for giving up and rising players a chance to help teams plug up holes in their rosters, but there's really not any official tours that are going to reach a significant round by that point for players to really "break out" in to show they're good enough for SPL that haven't already concluded before the initial auction, so I don't think the trade off is worth it here.

It's not about having a break out tour in the middle of SPL. Setting aside people who signed up late because that's no longer allowed, we're talking about adding players that were on the cusp of SPL rosters already but didn't quite get there. Also, one thing you're not considering is that a lot of times, players build with friends who aren't on an SPL team. Sometimes you have room for a helper player on your roster at auction, sometimes you don't until midseason.

I could list here a laundry list of people either I've picked up or others have picked up at midseason who have made hugely positive impacts on the remainder of the SPL season for their team. Fact is, midseason is a positive on SPL, and it seems like the worst aspects of it are getting axed. There's no good reason to cut it out entirely.

 

[ABR]

As the thread majority would indicate, we will be going with option 2. Now, let me go through the changes we made and the timeline we created for the upcoming SPL.

Trades will be possible from any time after the initial auction (December) all the way through week 5. However, teams cannot trade with each other while they are paired during a given week. For example, if the Wolfpack and Raiders are facing each other during week 3, they cannot make any trades during week 3.

We are allowing earlier trades because there is no real reason not to enable mobility earlier on in the season. If anything, the earlier the trade the more "legitimate" it is because it means players spend more time on their team they end the tour with. We also want to prevent the issue of players not wanting to help a team they know they'll be leaving at midseason. We are disallowing teams to trade while facing each other because we don't want players to take part preparing with and then against the very same team in the same week.

Regarding sellbacks, we have raised the standards to match that of our team cancer policy. If you want to sell back a player, you have to prove they are a team cancer and get them banned. Teams wanting to submit cases of team cancers must do so during week 4, no earlier and no later. Tournament Directors / hosts will rule on these cases during Monday and Tuesday of week 5.

As for midseason itself, signups will open on Wednesday of week 4, and close on Sunday night of week 4. Considering this, the midseason auction will be held from Wednesday of week 5 through Sunday of week 5. After the midseason auction, all roster changes will take effect starting week 6.

Since it has been discussed a bit in this thread, I'd like to explain why we are content with midseason players starting week 6 instead of week 5 like in recent SPLs. Most simply, 5 is in the middle of 1-9. So, we would like for "mid" season to be taking place during the midpoint of the season. We don't want midseason signups to be going on as early as week 3, meaning that players would be signing up after only 2 full weeks have passed. It is important that managers have enough time to evaluate individual performances and roster weaknesses. Furthermore, having the latter half of regular season be 4 weeks compared to the initial half's 5 weeks makes sense when including postseason as part of the entire tournament. If you look at SPL as a whole 11 weeks with playoffs, then starting week 6 is absolutely more appropriate than starting week 5.