Metagame [SPOILERS] Scarlet and Violet Speculation Thread

Aberforth

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Approved by me, OP taken from Ironwater.

Hey everyone!

Now that we have a decent amount of reliable information about the new and returning Pokemons in Scarlet & Violet with their stats/abilities/moves, it's time to open a first discussion thread about SV Ubers. This thread is meant to discuss about all this from a competitive and Ubers perspective. Keep in mind that there's still some information (like details on new moves, full movepool, some mechanics details) we don't have and that this thread is mainly about theorizing what will be good in SV Ubers based on what we know yet. Thus, don't forget that we will need to see everything in practice to really judge all the news brought by Scarler & Violet. Also, please stay respectful with each other, even in case of a disagreement.

You'll find just below a bunch of links/screens with most of the competitive relevant information we have as of now.

https://pastebin.com/6cYuSv92 part 1
https://pastebin.com/wKuA8ZRj part 2 - Currently broken, use the google doc below.
Wyrdeer-0 - 103/105/72/105/75/65 (Total: 525) - Normal/Psychic - Intimidate/Frisk/Sap Sipper
Kleavor-0 - 70/130/95/45/75/85 (Total: 500) - Bug/Rock - Swarm/Sheer Force/Sharpness
Ursaluna-0 - 130/140/105/45/80/50 (Total: 550) - Ground/Normal - Guts/Bulletproof/Unnerve
Basculegion-0 - 120/112/65/80/75/78 (Total: 530) - Water/Ghost - Swift Swim/Adaptability/Mold Breaker
Basculegion-1 - 120/92/65/100/75/78 (Total: 530) - Water/Ghost - Swift Swim/Adaptability/Mold Breaker
Sneasler-0 - 80/130/60/40/80/120 (Total: 510) - Fighting/Poison - Pressure/Unburden/Poison Touch
Overqwil-0 - 85/115/95/65/65/85 (Total: 510) - Dark/Poison - Poison Point/Swift Swim/Intimidate
Enamorus-0 - 74/115/70/135/80/106 (Total: 580) - Fairy/Flying - Cute Charm/Cute Charm/Contrary
Enamorus-1 - 74/115/110/135/100/46 (Total: 580) - Fairy/Flying - Overcoat/Overcoat/Overcoat
Sprigatito-0 - 40/61/54/45/45/65 (Total: 310) - Grass/Grass - Overgrow/Overgrow/Protean
Floragato-0 - 61/80/63/60/63/83 (Total: 410) - Grass/Grass - Overgrow/Overgrow/Protean
Meowscarada-0 - 76/110/70/81/70/123 (Total: 530) - Grass/Dark - Overgrow/Overgrow/Protean
Fuecoco-0 - 67/45/59/63/40/36 (Total: 310) - Fire/Fire - Blaze/Blaze/Unaware
Crocalor-0 - 81/55/78/90/58/49 (Total: 411) - Fire/Fire - Blaze/Blaze/Unaware
Skeledirge-0 - 104/75/100/110/75/66 (Total: 530) - Fire/Ghost - Blaze/Blaze/Unaware
Quaxly-0 - 55/65/45/50/45/50 (Total: 310) - Water/Water - Torrent/Torrent/Moxie
Quaxwell-0 - 70/85/65/65/60/65 (Total: 410) - Water/Water - Torrent/Torrent/Moxie
Quaquaval-0 - 85/120/80/85/75/85 (Total: 530) - Water/Fighting - Torrent/Torrent/Moxie
Lechonk-0 - 54/45/40/35/45/35 (Total: 254) - Normal/Normal - Aroma Veil/Gluttony/Thick Fat
Oinkologne-0 - 110/100/75/59/80/65 (Total: 489) - Normal/Normal - Lingering Aroma/Gluttony/Thick Fat
Oinkologne-1 - 115/90/70/59/90/65 (Total: 489) - Normal/Normal - Aroma Veil/Gluttony/Thick Fat
Dudunsparce-0 - 125/100/80/85/75/55 (Total: 520) - Normal/Normal - Serene Grace/Run Away/Rattled
Dudunsparce-1 - 125/100/80/85/75/55 (Total: 520) - Normal/Normal - Serene Grace/Run Away/Rattled
Tarountula-0 - 35/41/45/29/40/20 (Total: 210) - Bug/Bug - Insomnia/Insomnia/Stakeout
Spidops-0 - 60/79/92/52/86/35 (Total: 404) - Bug/Bug - Insomnia/Insomnia/Stakeout
Nymble-0 - 33/46/40/21/25/45 (Total: 210) - Bug/Bug - Swarm/Swarm/Tinted Lens
Lokix-0 - 71/102/78/52/55/92 (Total: 450) - Bug/Dark - Swarm/Swarm/Tinted Lens
Rellor-0 - 41/50/60/31/58/30 (Total: 270) - Bug/Bug - Compound Eyes/Compound Eyes/Shed Skin
Rabsca-0 - 75/50/85/115/100/45 (Total: 470) - Bug/Psychic - Synchronize/Synchronize/Telepathy
Greavard-0 - 50/61/60/30/55/34 (Total: 290) - Ghost/Ghost - Pickup/Pickup/Fluffy
Houndstone-0 - 72/101/100/50/97/68 (Total: 488) - Ghost/Ghost - Sand Rush/Sand Rush/Fluffy
Flittle-0 - 30/35/30/55/30/75 (Total: 255) - Psychic/Psychic - Anticipation/Frisk/Speed Boost
Espathra-0 - 95/60/60/101/60/105 (Total: 481) - Psychic/Psychic - Opportunist/Frisk/Speed Boost
Farigiraf-0 - 120/90/70/110/70/60 (Total: 520) - Normal/Psychic - Cud Chew/Armor Tail/Sap Sipper
Wiglett-0 - 10/55/25/35/25/95 (Total: 245) - Water/Water - Gooey/Rattled/Sand Veil
Wugtrio-0 - 35/100/50/50/70/120 (Total: 425) - Water/Water - Gooey/Rattled/Sand Veil
Dondozo-0 - 150/100/115/65/65/35 (Total: 530) - Water/Water - Unaware/Oblivious/Water Veil
Veluza-0 - 90/102/73/78/65/70 (Total: 478) - Water/Psychic - Mold Breaker/Mold Breaker/Sharpness
Finizen-0 - 70/45/40/45/40/75 (Total: 315) - Water/Water - Water Veil/Water Veil/Water Veil
Palafin-0 - 100/70/72/53/62/100 (Total: 457) - Water/Water - Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero
Palafin-1 - 100/160/97/106/87/100 (Total: 650) - Water/Water - Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero
Smoliv-0 - 41/35/45/58/51/30 (Total: 260) - Grass/Normal - Early Bird/Early Bird/Harvest
Dolliv-0 - 52/53/60/78/78/33 (Total: 354) - Grass/Normal - Early Bird/Early Bird/Harvest
Arboliva-0 - 78/69/90/125/109/39 (Total: 510) - Grass/Normal - Seed Sower/Seed Sower/Harvest
Capsakid-0 - 50/62/40/62/40/50 (Total: 304) - Grass/Grass - Chlorophyll/Insomnia/Klutz
Scovillain-0 - 65/108/65/108/65/75 (Total: 486) - Grass/Fire - Chlorophyll/Insomnia/Moody
Tadbulb-0 - 61/31/41/59/35/45 (Total: 272) - Electric/Electric - Own Tempo/Static/Damp
Bellibolt-0 - 109/64/91/103/83/45 (Total: 495) - Electric/Electric - Electromorphosis/Static/Damp
Varoom-0 - 45/70/63/30/45/47 (Total: 300) - Steel/Poison - Overcoat/Overcoat/Slow Start
Revavroom-0 - 80/119/90/54/67/90 (Total: 500) - Steel/Poison - Overcoat/Overcoat/Filter
Orthworm-0 - 70/85/145/60/55/65 (Total: 480) - Steel/Steel - Earth Eater/Earth Eater/Sand Veil
Tandemaus-0 - 50/50/45/40/45/75 (Total: 305) - Normal/Normal - Run Away/Pickup/Own Tempo
Maushold-0 - 74/75/70/65/75/111 (Total: 470) - Normal/Normal - Friend Guard/Cheek Pouch/Technician
Maushold-1 - 74/75/70/65/75/111 (Total: 470) - Normal/Normal - Friend Guard/Cheek Pouch/Technician
Cetoddle-0 - 108/68/45/30/40/43 (Total: 334) - Ice/Ice - Thick Fat/Snow Cloak/Sheer Force
Cetitan-0 - 170/113/65/45/55/73 (Total: 521) - Ice/Ice - Thick Fat/Slush Rush/Sheer Force
Frigibax-0 - 65/75/45/35/45/55 (Total: 320) - Dragon/Ice - Thermal Exchange/Thermal Exchange/Ice Body
Arctibax-0 - 90/95/66/45/65/62 (Total: 423) - Dragon/Ice - Thermal Exchange/Thermal Exchange/Ice Body
Baxcalibur-0 - 115/145/92/75/86/87 (Total: 600) - Dragon/Ice - Thermal Exchange/Thermal Exchange/Ice Body
Tatsugiri-0 - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) - Dragon/Water - Commander/Commander/Storm Drain
Tatsugiri-1 - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) - Dragon/Water - Commander/Commander/Storm Drain
Tatsugiri-2 - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) - Dragon/Water - Commander/Commander/Storm Drain
Cyclizar-0 - 70/95/65/85/65/121 (Total: 501) - Dragon/Normal - Shed Skin/Shed Skin/Regenerator
Pawmi-0 - 45/50/20/40/25/60 (Total: 240) - Electric/Electric - Static/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Pawmo-0 - 60/75/40/50/40/85 (Total: 350) - Electric/Fighting - Volt Absorb/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Pawmot-0 - 70/115/70/70/60/105 (Total: 490) - Electric/Fighting - Volt Absorb/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Wattrel-0 - 40/40/35/55/40/70 (Total: 280) - Electric/Flying - Wind Power/Volt Absorb/Competitive
Kilowattrel-0 - 70/70/60/105/60/125 (Total: 490) - Electric/Flying - Wind Power/Volt Absorb/Competitive
Bombirdier-0 - 70/103/85/60/85/82 (Total: 485) - Flying/Dark - Big Pecks/Keen Eye/Rocky Payload
Squawkabilly-0 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Guts
Squawkabilly-1 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Guts
Squawkabilly-2 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Sheer Force
Squawkabilly-3 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Sheer Force
Flamigo-0 - 82/115/74/75/64/90 (Total: 500) - Flying/Fighting - Scrappy/Tangled Feet/Costar
Klawf-0 - 70/100/115/35/55/75 (Total: 450) - Rock/Rock - Anger Shell/Shell Armor/Regenerator
Nacli-0 - 55/55/75/35/35/25 (Total: 280) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
Naclstack-0 - 60/60/100/35/65/35 (Total: 355) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
Garganacl-0 - 100/100/130/45/90/35 (Total: 500) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
Glimmet-0 - 48/35/42/105/60/60 (Total: 350) - Rock/Poison - Toxic Debris/Toxic Debris/Corrosion
Glimmora-0 - 83/55/90/130/81/86 (Total: 525) - Rock/Poison - Toxic Debris/Toxic Debris/Corrosion
Shroodle-0 - 40/65/35/40/35/75 (Total: 290) - Poison/Normal - Unburden/Pickpocket/Prankster
Grafaiai-0 - 63/95/65/80/72/110 (Total: 485) - Poison/Normal - Unburden/Poison Touch/Prankster
Fidough-0 - 37/55/70/30/55/65 (Total: 312) - Fairy/Fairy - Own Tempo/Own Tempo/Klutz
Dachsbun-0 - 57/80/115/50/80/95 (Total: 477) - Fairy/Fairy - Well-Baked Body/Well-Baked Body/Aroma Veil
Maschiff-0 - 60/78/60/40/51/51 (Total: 340) - Dark/Dark - Intimidate/Run Away/Stakeout
Mabosstiff-0 - 80/120/90/60/70/85 (Total: 505) - Dark/Dark - Intimidate/Guard Dog/Stakeout
Bramblin-0 - 40/65/30/45/35/60 (Total: 275) - Grass/Ghost - Wind Rider/Wind Rider/Infiltrator
Brambleghast-0 - 55/115/70/80/70/90 (Total: 480) - Grass/Ghost - Wind Rider/Wind Rider/Infiltrator
Gimmighoul-0 - 45/30/70/75/70/10 (Total: 300) - Ghost/Ghost - Rattled/Rattled/Rattled
Gimmighoul-1 - 45/30/25/75/45/80 (Total: 300) - Ghost/Ghost - Run Away/Run Away/Run Away
Gholdengo-0 - 87/60/95/133/91/84 (Total: 550) - Steel/Ghost - Good as Gold/Good as Gold/Good as Gold
Great Tusk-0 - 115/131/131/53/53/87 (Total: 570) - Ground/Fighting - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Brute Bonnet-0 - 111/127/99/79/99/55 (Total: 570) - Grass/Dark - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Sandy Shocks-0 - 85/81/97/121/85/101 (Total: 570) - Electric/Ground - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Scream Tail-0 - 115/65/99/65/115/111 (Total: 570) - Fairy/Psychic - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Flutter Mane-0 - 55/55/55/135/135/135 (Total: 570) - Ghost/Fairy - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Slither Wing-0 - 85/135/79/85/105/81 (Total: 570) - Bug/Fighting - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Roaring Moon-0 - 105/139/71/55/101/119 (Total: 590) - Dragon/Dark - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Iron Treads-0 - 90/112/120/72/70/106 (Total: 570) - Ground/Steel - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Moth-0 - 80/70/60/140/110/110 (Total: 570) - Fire/Poison - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Hands-0 - 154/140/108/50/68/50 (Total: 570) - Fighting/Electric - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Jugulis-0 - 94/80/86/122/80/108 (Total: 570) - Dark/Flying - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Thorns-0 - 100/134/110/70/84/72 (Total: 570) - Rock/Electric - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Bundle-0 - 56/80/114/124/60/136 (Total: 570) - Ice/Water - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Valiant-0 - 74/130/90/120/60/116 (Total: 590) - Fairy/Fighting - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Ting-Lu-0 - 165/110/130/50/80/45 (Total: 580) - Dark/Ground - Vessel of Ruin/Vessel of Ruin/Vessel of Ruin
Chien-Pao-0 - 80/130/80/90/65/135 (Total: 580) - Dark/Ice - Sword of Ruin/Sword of Ruin/Sword of Ruin
Wo-Chien-0 - 85/90/100/100/135/70 (Total: 580) - Dark/Grass - Tablets of Ruin/Tablets of Ruin/Tablets of Ruin
Chi-Yu-0 - 55/80/80/145/120/100 (Total: 580) - Dark/Fire - Beads of Ruin/Beads of Ruin/Beads of Ruin
Koraidon-0 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-1 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-2 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-3 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-4 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Miraidon-0 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-1 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-2 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-3 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-4 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Tinkatink-0 - 50/45/45/35/64/58 (Total: 297) - Fairy/Steel - Mold Breaker/Own Tempo/Pickpocket
Tinkatuff-0 - 65/55/55/45/82/78 (Total: 380) - Fairy/Steel - Mold Breaker/Own Tempo/Pickpocket
Tinkaton-0 - 85/75/77/70/105/94 (Total: 506) - Fairy/Steel - Mold Breaker/Own Tempo/Pickpocket
Charcadet-0 - 40/50/40/50/40/35 (Total: 255) - Fire/Fire - Flash Fire/Flash Fire/Flame Body
Armarouge-0 - 85/60/100/125/80/75 (Total: 525) - Fire/Psychic - Flash Fire/Flash Fire/Weak Armor
Ceruledge-0 - 75/125/80/60/100/85 (Total: 525) - Fire/Ghost - Flash Fire/Flash Fire/Weak Armor
Toedscool-0 - 40/40/35/50/100/70 (Total: 335) - Ground/Grass - Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might
Toedscruel-0 - 80/70/65/80/120/100 (Total: 515) - Ground/Grass - Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might
Kingambit-0 - 100/135/120/60/85/50 (Total: 550) - Dark/Steel - Defiant/Supreme Overlord/Pressure
Clodsire-0 - 130/75/60/45/100/20 (Total: 430) - Poison/Ground - Poison Point/Water Absorb/Unaware
Annihilape-0 - 110/115/80/50/90/90 (Total: 535) - Fighting/Ghost - Vital Spirit/Inner Focus/Defiant




Abilities
Protean/Libero
: Appear to activate once per switch - Posted here
Intrepid Sword/Dauntless Shield: Activate once per match - Posted here

Changes to other abilities we thought were changed: Intimidate (No change), Contrary (No Change), Regenerator (No change in text, not tested mechanically)

Other Abilities: Found here and dotted through the thread

Ancient Paradoxes share an ability called: Protosynthesis - Boosts the Pokémon's most proficient stat in Harsh Sunlight or if the Pokémon is holding a Booster Energy - Image here
Future Paradoxes share an ability called: Quark Drive - Boosts the Pokémon's most proficient stat on Electric Terrain or if the Pokémon is holding a Booster Energy

Box art legends abilities:
Orichalcum Pulse: Turns the sunlight harsh when the Pokémon enters a battle. The ancient pulse thrumming through the Pokémon also boosts its Attack stat in harsh sunlight.
Hadron Engine: Turns the ground into Electric terrain when the Pokémon enters the battle. The futuristic engine within the Pokémon also boosts its Sp. Atk stat on Electric terrain.
Rest, Roost and Recover have both been reduced to 5PP. We presume this affects other healing moves too.
List of removed moves: https://pastebin.com/eReqHWpi
Also, Scald is most likely only learnable on Volcanion.
Hail has been replaced by Snowing - As far as we can tell, all references to Hail have now been replaced with Snowing. Snowing gives +Def to Ice types and does not appear to do chip damage.

A big thank to Orange Islands people for gathering all these infos, don't hesitate to check the datamines thread there for more infos.

Happy speculating!
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
not an ubers player but won't koraidon/miraidon be super broken with those offenses + abilities that give them sun/eterrain plus a boost to their atk/spa respectively? like how do u stop miraidon from clicking draco vs the ground type once and then winning by spamming volt switch?
 
Really looking into using Baxcalibur, Thermal Exchange looks nice to get rid of Will-O-Wisp and can bait Fire moves to boost itself, type pairing is nice but he looks kinda squishy to Physical Damage? If he can learn Glaive Rush it could be an unstopable monster that cleaves walls
 

Denial

is a Past WCoP Champion
RUPL Champion
THE BIG 4
If there's something that im definitely not looking forward to is having 4 potentially amazing Pokemon all sitting at 135 base speed. Hoping to be wrong but this could potentially mean lots of speed ties that could easily change games. If you still don't know who im talking about, i'll talk about them a little bit.

1668242953351.png

Koraidon @ Choice Band
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn

Koraidon @ Leftovers
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe (100% you want a bulky spread here while still having max speed, but i am too lazy to work on something like that right now)
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Collision Course
- Flame Charge

I honestly think this guy has more potential than Miraidon. Both are pretty busted honestly but having 3 STABS thanks to the Sun comes so in handy, and its pretty much perfect coverage outside very specific type combinations (or Fidough). Even if the abiity boost turns out to be only 1.3x, that's still pretty fucking strong.

1668243775639.png


Miraidon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Hadron Engine
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat / Dragon Pulse

Miraidon @ Leftovers
Ability: Hadron Engine
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (same point as Koraidon above)
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Parabolic Charge
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt

Instead of a third STAB, here your electric stab turns even stronger... Zekrom this gen wasnt enough i suppose. Honestly if Zekrom is any indiciation of how this is gonna go im really not looking forward to this Pokemon LOL.

1668244103908.png

Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire
- Psyshock

Flutter Mane @ Spell Tag
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Taunt

Flutter Mane @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (somehow bulky spread)
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Draining Kiss
- Calm Mind
- Taunt

^ don't personally think this one is gonna work but... you know... putting it out there.

Ghosts were'nt broken enough for them last gen i guess LOL this thing is kind of insane you have no real reliable answer :sob:. We'll see how they turn out to be but i don't expect anything less than great. Let's not forget its even stronger under sun.

1668244436891.png

Chien-Pao @ Heavy-Duty Boots (if its back in the game, could do Black Glasses / Never Melt Ice otherwise)
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash/Ice Spinner
- Crunch
- Ice Shard


Chien-Pao @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash/Ice Spinner
- Crunch
- Ice Shard
- Sacred Sword

Can maybe make a bulky set since it has recover?

So... this guy has an ability that puts your whole team on -1 Def as long as he's on the field... this guy is gonna hit so stupidly hard LMAO Ice Shard gives it an edge over all the other 3 135 base Speed Stat so thats already a huge bonus.

THE SAVIOR
1668244875092.png

Iron Bundle @ Choice Specs/Heavy-Duty-Boots/Choice Scarf
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Modest Nature (with Choice Scarf)
- Freeze-Dry
- Hydro Pump
- Terablast / Ice Beam
- Flip Turn

Movepool is unfortunately lacking a bit, but it has what it mostly needs, 1 more point in its base Speed stat, sitting at 136. While 124 is nothing too crazy to write home about, its still decently strong and its main STAB is supereffective against the 2 legendaries, which is already good enough. With the Modest Choice Scarf set you can also boost your Special Attack instead of Speed under Electric Terrain, which is pretty great. Don't see it making BIG waves but it should be viable.

Outside those 5 i really cant tell what ubers is gonna look like. Gothitelle is back, Baton Pass strats are gonna be as common as ever since Polteageist is still there, Dragapult is faster than all 5 mons listed above, Kingambit might be viable, Ditto will most likely be S rank again for now, and Roaring Moon and Baxcalibur look pretty good as well. And with Teramax on the mix, things are gonna be even more confusing. Can only wait but i'm still pretty excited for the meta to come.
 
Last edited:
U pray they miss Draco and if they don't u click x
Praying won't help

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Zekrom Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo in Electric Terrain: 325-383 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Casually OHKO Mewtwo while pivoting. And it's faster

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 464-547 (115.7 - 136.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So much for Electric immunity.
 
View attachment 464669

Miraidon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Hadron Engine
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat / Dragon Pulse

Miraidon @ Leftovers
Ability: Hadron Engine
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (same point as Koraidon above)
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Parabolic Charge
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt

Instead of a third STAB, here your electric stab turns even stronger... Zekrom this gen wasnt enough i suppose. Honestly if Zekrom is any indiciation of how this is gonna go im really not looking forward to this Pokemon LOL.
i feel life orb would be common on mirai to prevent lock into electric move
the only speed boosting move it gets this gen, however, is agility. speed ties abound ig, but miraidon has the most power of them all. im pretty sure it 3hkos spdef blissey with thunder

Edit: life orb miraidon vs blissey
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Zekrom Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Electric Terrain: 274-324 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Zekrom Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 239-282 (33.9 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
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Praying won't help

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Zekrom Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo in Electric Terrain: 325-383 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Casually OHKO Mewtwo while pivoting. And it's faster

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 464-547 (115.7 - 136.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So much for Electric immunity.
Ok no one uses Mewtwo in ubers (and by this I mean in the new gens like oras/usum)and there is still not surety that it will be used
And as for groudon u pray they miss .
 
Ok no one uses Mewtwo in ubers (and by this I mean in the new gens like oras/usum)and there is still not surety that it will be used
And as for groudon u pray they miss .
I used Mewtwo as an example just to demonstrate the power of Volt Switch. Mewtwo has 106/90/90 bulk which is not too shabby.

Groudon better start visiting church soon because he will need the faith to survive this demon
 

Manaphy

Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am family guy
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Hi everyone, there are SO MANY metagame changes to get to, but I wanted to get out a post near the beginning of this thread to first highlight all of the new legendaries we're getting, before I discuss broader metagame changes later. I've been keeping up with the leaks all of my free time at work so I'm pretty pumped to finally put pen to paper :swole:

For now, I'll keep this discussion mostly Pre-Home related - it will be our metagame for the first 4 months. But I'll be sure to talk about the future home meta as well!

Overall, the box legends feel very strong to me - Very, Very Good, but probably not too problematic overall.

KORAIDON

100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670)
Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse


Koraidon's ability sets sun and it gives him an attack boost while sun is active (1.3x? not entirely sure). Because of this it also gets Fire-type coverage. It has access to good set-up options in Swords Dance, Agility, and Bulk Up. For coverage options, Dragon/Fighting/Fire is already very good, but it also gets stuff like Wild Charge and Iron Head. Notably, Earthquake is absent. 135 is VERY FAST but as we'll see, that number is speed tied with a couple of other new threats. 135 Attack with the free boost from Orichalcum Pulse is quite strong. Notably, there aren't a lot of really bulky Fairy-types around. A big limiting factor for this thing will be that Dragon Claw simply has kinda low base power.

Set I have in mind:

Koraidon @ Life Orb / Haban Berry / Fairy resist berry? Seems super flexible
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse.
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature (probably Adamant with Agility)
- Collision Course
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance / Agility
- Flare Blitz / Iron Head / Wild Charge

Very fast and it looks like a great breaker. Collision Course is Koraidon's signature move - base 100 power that gets boosted even more when super effective (in addition to the normal boost). Dragon Claw seems to be the most reliable Dragon-type STAB option, since Dragon Rush is too inaccurate. Flare Blitz will get boosted by Sun and hit the Fairy/Steel types and other things that may try to stop Koraidon. Meanwhile Iron Head could be useful to smack Fairy-types and Wild Charge may be this thing's best bet against Toxapex. Swords Dance would give it the power to break much better, while Agility could be great to sweep offense or weakened teams and outspeed most Choice Scarf mons.

WHAT STOPS IT?
1668247680581.png

Scream Tail Jigglypuff seems like an interesting option! It has 115/65/99/65/115/111 for it's stat spread, with it's highest stat getting boosted in the Sun - probably it's Speed. As a Fairy/Psychic Type, this means it would be immune to Dragon-type moves and 4X resistant to Fighting, and with it outspeeding after the boost, it could smack Koraidon with a 4x Moonblast in the face. Must be careful of Iron Head, though. Jigglypuff's only healing method in this game is Wish, notably - maybe a set of Moonblast/Wish/Protect/X (maybe sing lmao)? This mon may end up being a pre-home staple or a total flop, not sure yet!

1668245406505.png

Pex seems decent as well - thankfully for it, Regenerator has not been nerfed. Koraidon does have coverage for it including Wild Charge and Zen Headbutt. Coming in with Rocky Helmet and Haze may bequite good. Pex may be really useful especially if Koraidon goes more inclinced to stick with Fire- or Steel-type coverage.

1668245586923.png

Hippowdon may seem strange, but it's notable for the sheer fact that the Sand that it sets up upon switch-in negates Orichalcum Pulse's boost.

1668247599980.png

New Fire/Ghost starter, Skeledirge - notably, it gets Unaware and Slack Off. Type is good and Unaware could mean it ignores Swords Dance. Koraidon does get Ghost-type coverage but it probably will never run that, unless this thing REALLY catches on. Unaware is notably a hidden ability, so this may not be available until home comes out, but I felt like it was worth mentioning.

There are other stuff that is sure to put up a fight to this thing as well, but those 4 are the first that popped up in my head. Let's move on to...


MIRAIDON
1668245724106.png

100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670)
Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine


If Koraidon looks scary, then Miraidon is just as much, if not more, of a monster than it is. Hadron Engine sets up Electric Terrain, which notably boosts Miraidon's Electric-type STAB, in addition to giving Miraidon increased Special Attack in Electric Terrain (again, 1.3x? not sure the exact amount). 135 SpAtk when boosted by Hadron Engine, STAB and Electric Terrain is quite insane - not quite on the level of Kyogre, but it has 135 Speed on top of that. And for god knows what reason, they decided to give this guy FIRE-TYPE COVERAGE. Zekrom is rolling in his grave right now. Additionally, electric terrain may be a lot harder to remove than weather is.

Here's the main set for it I conceived:

Miraidon @ Choice Specs / Magnet / Life Orb
Ability: Hadron Engine
252 SpAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electro Drift
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch
- Overheat

Electro Drift is the same thing as Koraidon's unique move - 100 base power and stronger when super effective. Draco Meteor just wrecks most things that will try to switch-in on the Electric-type attacks, while Overheat will annihilate any Ground/Steels (like the new donphan) and potential Grass-type that may come in. Volt Switch really makes this thing crazy - with it's high speed, it can come in and Volt Switch pretty openly with minimal risk, while always threatening Draco Meteor on any Ground-type that may come in and try to absorb it.
Like, Chansey/Blissey technically hard walls it, but if you can Volt Switch on Blissey for 0 risk, then that's still a major problem.

WHAT STOPS IT?
not an ubers player but won't koraidon/miraidon be super broken with those offenses + abilities that give them sun/eterrain plus a boost to their atk/spa respectively? like how do u stop miraidon from clicking draco vs the ground type once and then winning by spamming volt switch?
I'll show you my theory on what may be one of the few things that can come in safely:

1668246468143.png

TING-LU
155/110/120/50/80/45
Dark/Ground - Vessel of Ruin


One of the new legendary Dark-type quartets, all of them based on Chinese mythology. It's bulk is MASSIVE - 155/120/80 already makes it a fearsome physical wall and sport great Special Defense to boot. This goes even further when you consider it's ability, Vessel of Ruin, which lowers the Special Attack of everything on the screen besides itself. No, this doesn't work like Intimidate, it appears to be constantly active, meaning it goes through Substitute and lasts upon the opponent's switches. Again, I'm assuming this drop is 30%, essentially cancelling out Miraidon's Hadron Engine boost, and thanks to being Ground-type it can eat Volt Switch and Electro Drift. To top it off, it has a pretty good support movepool - Ruination is the signature move of the Dark Quartet, and it does 50% damage constantly, like Nature's Madness. Not that it even needs it per say, since 110 attack is pretty damn good. It also gets Spikes and Whirlwind, both of which are going to be pretty rare in the new Ubers meta due to their poor distribution. Unfortunately, no Recover or Slack Off.
Assuming Hadron Engine is negated by Vessel of Ruin, I've calced this:
252 SpA Life Orb Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ting-Lu: 235-278 (44 - 52%)
Still a lot of damage, but you have to keep in mind that Miraidon may be guessing between Electric move and using Draco here, so sometimes you'll be coming in for free, and this is in addition to the fact that Miraidon is either going to be choice locked, take LO recoil, or be weaker with Magnet.
So, I think RestTalk Ting-Lu may be the most consistent switch-in that doesn't grant momentum for Volt Switch. Maybe another set like spikes/whirlwind/ruination/eq in addition to having wish support from Scream Tail?

ANOTHER OPTION
1668247273465.png

252+ Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

LOL SCARF DUGTRIO

TO BE CONTINUED
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Hi everyone, there are SO MANY metagame changes to get to, but I wanted to get out a post near the beginning of this thread to first highlight all of the new legendaries we're getting, before I discuss broader metagame changes later. I've been keeping up with the leaks all of my free time at work so I'm pretty pumped to finally put pen to paper :swole:

For now, I'll keep this discussion mostly Pre-Home related - it will be our metagame for the first 4 months. But I'll be sure to talk about the future home meta as well!

Overall, the box legends feel very strong to me - Very, Very Good, but probably not too problematic overall.

KORAIDON

100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670)
Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse


Koraidon's ability sets sun and it gives him an attack boost while sun is active (1.3x? not entirely sure). Because of this it also gets Fire-type coverage. It has access to good set-up options in Swords Dance, Agility, and Bulk Up. For coverage options, Dragon/Fighting/Fire is already very good, but it also gets stuff like Wild Charge and Iron Head. Notably, Earthquake is absent. 135 is VERY FAST but as we'll see, that number is speed tied with a couple of other new threats. 135 Attack with the free boost from Orichalcum Pulse is quite strong. Notably, there aren't a lot of really bulky Fairy-types around. A big limiting factor for this thing will be that Dragon Claw simply has kinda low base power.

Set I have in mind:

Koraidon @ Life Orb / Haban Berry / Fairy resist berry? Seems super flexible
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse.
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature (probably Adamant with Agility)
- Collision Course
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance / Agility
- Flare Blitz / Iron Head / Wild Charge

Very fast and it looks like a great breaker. Collision Course is Koraidon's signature move - base 100 power that gets boosted even more when super effective (in addition to the normal boost). Dragon Claw seems to be the most reliable Dragon-type STAB option, since Dragon Rush is too inaccurate. Flare Blitz will get boosted by Sun and hit the Fairy/Steel types and other things that may try to stop Koraidon. Meanwhile Iron Head could be useful to smack Fairy-types and Wild Charge may be this thing's best bet against Toxapex. Swords Dance would give it the power to break much better, while Agility could be great to sweep offense or weakened teams and outspeed most Choice Scarf mons.

WHAT STOPS IT?
View attachment 464683
Scream Tail Jigglypuff seems like an interesting option! It has 115/65/99/65/115/111 for it's stat spread, with it's highest stat getting boosted in the Sun - probably it's Speed. As a Fairy/Psychic Type, this means it would be immune to Dragon-type moves and 4X resistant to Fighting, and with it outspeeding after the boost, it could smack Koraidon with a 4x Moonblast in the face. Must be careful of Iron Head, though. Jigglypuff's only healing method in this game is Wish, notably - maybe a set of Moonblast/Wish/Protect/X (maybe sing lmao)? This mon may end up being a pre-home staple or a total flop, not sure yet!

View attachment 464675
Pex seems decent as well - thankfully for it, Regenerator has not been nerfed. Koraidon does have coverage for it including Wild Charge and Zen Headbutt. Coming in with Rocky Helmet and Haze may be pretty useful. Pex may be really useful especially if Koraidon goes more inclinced to stick with Fire- or Steel-type coverage.

View attachment 464676
Hippowdon may seem strange, but it's notable for the sheer fact that the Sand that it sets up upon switch-in negates Orichalcum Pulse's boost.

There are other stuff that is sure to put up a fight to this thing as well, but those 3 are the first that popped up in my head.
View attachment 464682
New Fire/Ghost starter, Skeledirge - notably, it gets Unaware and Slack Off. Type is good and Unaware could mean it ignores Swords Dance. Koraidon does get Ghost-type coverage but it probably will never run that, unless this thing REALLY catches on.



MIRAIDON
View attachment 464677

100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670)
Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine


If Koraidon looks scary, then Miraidon is just as much, if not more, of a monster than it is. Hadron Engine sets up Electric Terrain, which notably boosts Miraidon's Electric-type STAB, in addition to giving Miraidon increased Special Attack in Electric Terrain (again, 1.3x? not sure the exact amount). 135 SpAtk when boosted by Hadron Engine, STAB and Electric Terrain is quite insane - not quite on the level of Kyogre, but it has 135 Speed on top of that. And for god knows what reason, they decided to give this guy FIRE-TYPE COVERAGE. Zekrom is rolling in his grave right now. Additionally, electric terrain may be a lot harder to remove than weather is.

Here's the main set for it I conceived:

Miraidon @ Choice Specs / Magnet / Life Orb
Ability: Hadron Engine
252 SpAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electro Drift
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch
- Overheat

Electro Drift is the same thing as Koraidon's unique move - 100 base power and stronger when super effective. Draco Meteor just wrecks most things that will try to switch-in on the Electric-type attacks, while Overheat will annihilate any Ground/Steels (like the new donphan) and potential Grass-type that may come in. Volt Switch really makes this thing crazy - with it's high speed, it can come in and Volt Switch pretty openly with minimal risk, while always threatening Draco Meteor on any Ground-type that may come in and try to absorb it.
Like, Chansey/Blissey technically hard walls it, but if you can Volt Switch on Blissey for 0 risk, then that's still a major problem.

WHAT STOPS IT?

I'll show you my theory on what may be one of the few things that can come in safely:

View attachment 464678
TING-LU
165/110/130/50/80/45 (Total: 580)
Dark/Ground - Vessel of Ruin


One of the new legendary Dark-type quartets, all of them based on Chinese mythology. It's bulk is MASSIVE - 165/130/80 already makes it a fearsome physical wall and sport great Special Defense to boot. This goes even further when you consider it's ability, Vessel of Ruin, which lowers the Special Attack of everything on the screen besides itself. No, this doesn't work like Intimidate, it appears to be constantly active, meaning it goes through Substitute and lasts upon the opponent's switches. Again, I'm assuming this drop is 30%, essentially cancelling out Miraidon's Hadron Engine boost, and thanks to being Ground-type it can eat Volt Switch and Parabolic Charge. To top it off, it has a pretty good support movepool - Ruination is the signature move of the Dark Quartet, and it does 50% damage constantly, like Nature's Madness. Not that it even needs it per say, since 110 attack is pretty damn good. It also gets Spikes and Whirlwind, both of which are going to be pretty rare in the new Ubers meta due to their poor distribution. Unfortunately, no Recover or Slack Off.
Assuming Electro Surge is negated by Vessel of Ruin, I've calced this:
252 SpA Life Orb Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ting-Lu: 235-278 (44 - 52%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO
Still a lot of damage, but you have to keep in mind that Miraidon may be guessing between Electric move and using Draco here, so sometimes you'll be coming in for free. I think RestTalk Ting-Lu may be the most consistent switch-in that doesn't grant momentum for Volt Switch. Maybe another set like spikes/whirlwind/ruination/eq in addition to having wish support from Scream Tail?

ANOTHER OPTION
View attachment 464680

252+ Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

LOL SCARF DUGTRIO

TO BE CONTINUED
boost is normal +1 to atk or spatk depends on legendary
Edit: changing weather does not remove orichalcum pulse boost
nor does changing terrain remove hadron engine boost
its a +1 to the stat

EditEdit: tablets also drops 1 spatk stage, and electric terrain stays up
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone, there are SO MANY metagame changes to get to, but I wanted to get out a post near the beginning of this thread to first highlight all of the new legendaries we're getting, before I discuss broader metagame changes later. I've been keeping up with the leaks all of my free time at work so I'm pretty pumped to finally put pen to paper :swole:

For now, I'll keep this discussion mostly Pre-Home related - it will be our metagame for the first 4 months. But I'll be sure to talk about the future home meta as well!

Overall, the box legends feel very strong to me - Very, Very Good, but probably not too problematic overall.

KORAIDON

100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670)
Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse


Koraidon's ability sets sun and it gives him an attack boost while sun is active (1.3x? not entirely sure). Because of this it also gets Fire-type coverage. It has access to good set-up options in Swords Dance, Agility, and Bulk Up. For coverage options, Dragon/Fighting/Fire is already very good, but it also gets stuff like Wild Charge and Iron Head. Notably, Earthquake is absent. 135 is VERY FAST but as we'll see, that number is speed tied with a couple of other new threats. 135 Attack with the free boost from Orichalcum Pulse is quite strong. Notably, there aren't a lot of really bulky Fairy-types around. A big limiting factor for this thing will be that Dragon Claw simply has kinda low base power.

Set I have in mind:

Koraidon @ Life Orb / Haban Berry / Fairy resist berry? Seems super flexible
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse.
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature (probably Adamant with Agility)
- Collision Course
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance / Agility
- Flare Blitz / Iron Head / Wild Charge

Very fast and it looks like a great breaker. Collision Course is Koraidon's signature move - base 100 power that gets boosted even more when super effective (in addition to the normal boost). Dragon Claw seems to be the most reliable Dragon-type STAB option, since Dragon Rush is too inaccurate. Flare Blitz will get boosted by Sun and hit the Fairy/Steel types and other things that may try to stop Koraidon. Meanwhile Iron Head could be useful to smack Fairy-types and Wild Charge may be this thing's best bet against Toxapex. Swords Dance would give it the power to break much better, while Agility could be great to sweep offense or weakened teams and outspeed most Choice Scarf mons.

WHAT STOPS IT?
View attachment 464683
Scream Tail Jigglypuff seems like an interesting option! It has 115/65/99/65/115/111 for it's stat spread, with it's highest stat getting boosted in the Sun - probably it's Speed. As a Fairy/Psychic Type, this means it would be immune to Dragon-type moves and 4X resistant to Fighting, and with it outspeeding after the boost, it could smack Koraidon with a 4x Moonblast in the face. Must be careful of Iron Head, though. Jigglypuff's only healing method in this game is Wish, notably - maybe a set of Moonblast/Wish/Protect/X (maybe sing lmao)? This mon may end up being a pre-home staple or a total flop, not sure yet!

View attachment 464675
Pex seems decent as well - thankfully for it, Regenerator has not been nerfed. Koraidon does have coverage for it including Wild Charge and Zen Headbutt. Coming in with Rocky Helmet and Haze may be pretty useful. Pex may be really useful especially if Koraidon goes more inclinced to stick with Fire- or Steel-type coverage.

View attachment 464676
Hippowdon may seem strange, but it's notable for the sheer fact that the Sand that it sets up upon switch-in negates Orichalcum Pulse's boost.

There are other stuff that is sure to put up a fight to this thing as well, but those 3 are the first that popped up in my head.
View attachment 464682
New Fire/Ghost starter, Skeledirge - notably, it gets Unaware and Slack Off. Type is good and Unaware could mean it ignores Swords Dance. Koraidon does get Ghost-type coverage but it probably will never run that, unless this thing REALLY catches on.



MIRAIDON
View attachment 464677

100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670)
Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine


If Koraidon looks scary, then Miraidon is just as much, if not more, of a monster than it is. Hadron Engine sets up Electric Terrain, which notably boosts Miraidon's Electric-type STAB, in addition to giving Miraidon increased Special Attack in Electric Terrain (again, 1.3x? not sure the exact amount). 135 SpAtk when boosted by Hadron Engine, STAB and Electric Terrain is quite insane - not quite on the level of Kyogre, but it has 135 Speed on top of that. And for god knows what reason, they decided to give this guy FIRE-TYPE COVERAGE. Zekrom is rolling in his grave right now. Additionally, electric terrain may be a lot harder to remove than weather is.

Here's the main set for it I conceived:

Miraidon @ Choice Specs / Magnet / Life Orb
Ability: Hadron Engine
252 SpAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electro Drift
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch
- Overheat

Electro Drift is the same thing as Koraidon's unique move - 100 base power and stronger when super effective. Draco Meteor just wrecks most things that will try to switch-in on the Electric-type attacks, while Overheat will annihilate any Ground/Steels (like the new donphan) and potential Grass-type that may come in. Volt Switch really makes this thing crazy - with it's high speed, it can come in and Volt Switch pretty openly with minimal risk, while always threatening Draco Meteor on any Ground-type that may come in and try to absorb it.
Like, Chansey/Blissey technically hard walls it, but if you can Volt Switch on Blissey for 0 risk, then that's still a major problem.

WHAT STOPS IT?

I'll show you my theory on what may be one of the few things that can come in safely:

View attachment 464678
TING-LU
165/110/130/50/80/45 (Total: 580)
Dark/Ground - Vessel of Ruin


One of the new legendary Dark-type quartets, all of them based on Chinese mythology. It's bulk is MASSIVE - 165/130/80 already makes it a fearsome physical wall and sport great Special Defense to boot. This goes even further when you consider it's ability, Vessel of Ruin, which lowers the Special Attack of everything on the screen besides itself. No, this doesn't work like Intimidate, it appears to be constantly active, meaning it goes through Substitute and lasts upon the opponent's switches. Again, I'm assuming this drop is 30%, essentially cancelling out Miraidon's Hadron Engine boost, and thanks to being Ground-type it can eat Volt Switch and Parabolic Charge. To top it off, it has a pretty good support movepool - Ruination is the signature move of the Dark Quartet, and it does 50% damage constantly, like Nature's Madness. Not that it even needs it per say, since 110 attack is pretty damn good. It also gets Spikes and Whirlwind, both of which are going to be pretty rare in the new Ubers meta due to their poor distribution. Unfortunately, no Recover or Slack Off.
Assuming Electro Surge is negated by Vessel of Ruin, I've calced this:
252 SpA Life Orb Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ting-Lu: 235-278 (44 - 52%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO
Still a lot of damage, but you have to keep in mind that Miraidon may be guessing between Electric move and using Draco here, so sometimes you'll be coming in for free. I think RestTalk Ting-Lu may be the most consistent switch-in that doesn't grant momentum for Volt Switch. Maybe another set like spikes/whirlwind/ruination/eq in addition to having wish support from Scream Tail?

ANOTHER OPTION
View attachment 464680

252+ Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

LOL SCARF DUGTRIO

TO BE CONTINUED
If those are the only viable options to stop Miraidon, I don't see it lasting very long in Ubers.

Btw, Miraidon also works very well on Sun teams. That Overheat under Sun will hurt a lot.

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Zekrom Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane in Sun: 433-511 (108.7 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(I know NDM isn't around anymore, but it's fun to think what if it was)
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone, there are SO MANY metagame changes to get to, but I wanted to get out a post near the beginning of this thread to first highlight all of the new legendaries we're getting, before I discuss broader metagame changes later. I've been keeping up with the leaks all of my free time at work so I'm pretty pumped to finally put pen to paper :swole:

For now, I'll keep this discussion mostly Pre-Home related - it will be our metagame for the first 4 months. But I'll be sure to talk about the future home meta as well!

Overall, the box legends feel very strong to me - Very, Very Good, but probably not too problematic overall.

KORAIDON

100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670)
Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse


Koraidon's ability sets sun and it gives him an attack boost while sun is active (1.3x? not entirely sure). Because of this it also gets Fire-type coverage. It has access to good set-up options in Swords Dance, Agility, and Bulk Up. For coverage options, Dragon/Fighting/Fire is already very good, but it also gets stuff like Wild Charge and Iron Head. Notably, Earthquake is absent. 135 is VERY FAST but as we'll see, that number is speed tied with a couple of other new threats. 135 Attack with the free boost from Orichalcum Pulse is quite strong. Notably, there aren't a lot of really bulky Fairy-types around. A big limiting factor for this thing will be that Dragon Claw simply has kinda low base power.

Set I have in mind:

Koraidon @ Life Orb / Haban Berry / Fairy resist berry? Seems super flexible
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse.
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature (probably Adamant with Agility)
- Collision Course
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance / Agility
- Flare Blitz / Iron Head / Wild Charge

Very fast and it looks like a great breaker. Collision Course is Koraidon's signature move - base 100 power that gets boosted even more when super effective (in addition to the normal boost). Dragon Claw seems to be the most reliable Dragon-type STAB option, since Dragon Rush is too inaccurate. Flare Blitz will get boosted by Sun and hit the Fairy/Steel types and other things that may try to stop Koraidon. Meanwhile Iron Head could be useful to smack Fairy-types and Wild Charge may be this thing's best bet against Toxapex. Swords Dance would give it the power to break much better, while Agility could be great to sweep offense or weakened teams and outspeed most Choice Scarf mons.

WHAT STOPS IT?
View attachment 464683
Scream Tail Jigglypuff seems like an interesting option! It has 115/65/99/65/115/111 for it's stat spread, with it's highest stat getting boosted in the Sun - probably it's Speed. As a Fairy/Psychic Type, this means it would be immune to Dragon-type moves and 4X resistant to Fighting, and with it outspeeding after the boost, it could smack Koraidon with a 4x Moonblast in the face. Must be careful of Iron Head, though. Jigglypuff's only healing method in this game is Wish, notably - maybe a set of Moonblast/Wish/Protect/X (maybe sing lmao)? This mon may end up being a pre-home staple or a total flop, not sure yet!

View attachment 464675
Pex seems decent as well - thankfully for it, Regenerator has not been nerfed. Koraidon does have coverage for it including Wild Charge and Zen Headbutt. Coming in with Rocky Helmet and Haze may bequite good. Pex may be really useful especially if Koraidon goes more inclinced to stick with Fire- or Steel-type coverage.

View attachment 464676
Hippowdon may seem strange, but it's notable for the sheer fact that the Sand that it sets up upon switch-in negates Orichalcum Pulse's boost.

View attachment 464682
New Fire/Ghost starter, Skeledirge - notably, it gets Unaware and Slack Off. Type is good and Unaware could mean it ignores Swords Dance. Koraidon does get Ghost-type coverage but it probably will never run that, unless this thing REALLY catches on. Unaware is notably a hidden ability, so this may not be available until home comes out, but I felt like it was worth mentioning.

There are other stuff that is sure to put up a fight to this thing as well, but those 4 are the first that popped up in my head. Let's move on to...


MIRAIDON
View attachment 464677

100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670)
Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine


If Koraidon looks scary, then Miraidon is just as much, if not more, of a monster than it is. Hadron Engine sets up Electric Terrain, which notably boosts Miraidon's Electric-type STAB, in addition to giving Miraidon increased Special Attack in Electric Terrain (again, 1.3x? not sure the exact amount). 135 SpAtk when boosted by Hadron Engine, STAB and Electric Terrain is quite insane - not quite on the level of Kyogre, but it has 135 Speed on top of that. And for god knows what reason, they decided to give this guy FIRE-TYPE COVERAGE. Zekrom is rolling in his grave right now. Additionally, electric terrain may be a lot harder to remove than weather is.

Here's the main set for it I conceived:

Miraidon @ Choice Specs / Magnet / Life Orb
Ability: Hadron Engine
252 SpAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electro Drift
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch
- Overheat

Electro Drift is the same thing as Koraidon's unique move - 100 base power and stronger when super effective. Draco Meteor just wrecks most things that will try to switch-in on the Electric-type attacks, while Overheat will annihilate any Ground/Steels (like the new donphan) and potential Grass-type that may come in. Volt Switch really makes this thing crazy - with it's high speed, it can come in and Volt Switch pretty openly with minimal risk, while always threatening Draco Meteor on any Ground-type that may come in and try to absorb it.
Like, Chansey/Blissey technically hard walls it, but if you can Volt Switch on Blissey for 0 risk, then that's still a major problem.

WHAT STOPS IT?

I'll show you my theory on what may be one of the few things that can come in safely:

View attachment 464678
TING-LU
165/110/130/50/80/45 (Total: 580)
Dark/Ground - Vessel of Ruin


One of the new legendary Dark-type quartets, all of them based on Chinese mythology. It's bulk is MASSIVE - 165/130/80 already makes it a fearsome physical wall and sport great Special Defense to boot. This goes even further when you consider it's ability, Vessel of Ruin, which lowers the Special Attack of everything on the screen besides itself. No, this doesn't work like Intimidate, it appears to be constantly active, meaning it goes through Substitute and lasts upon the opponent's switches. Again, I'm assuming this drop is 30%, essentially cancelling out Miraidon's Hadron Engine boost, and thanks to being Ground-type it can eat Volt Switch and Electro Drift. To top it off, it has a pretty good support movepool - Ruination is the signature move of the Dark Quartet, and it does 50% damage constantly, like Nature's Madness. Not that it even needs it per say, since 110 attack is pretty damn good. It also gets Spikes and Whirlwind, both of which are going to be pretty rare in the new Ubers meta due to their poor distribution. Unfortunately, no Recover or Slack Off.
Assuming Hadron Engine is negated by Vessel of Ruin, I've calced this:
252 SpA Life Orb Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ting-Lu: 235-278 (44 - 52%)
Still a lot of damage, but you have to keep in mind that Miraidon may be guessing between Electric move and using Draco here, so sometimes you'll be coming in for free, and this is in addition to the fact that Miraidon is either going to be choice locked, take LO recoil, or be weaker with Magnet.
So, I think RestTalk Ting-Lu may be the most consistent switch-in that doesn't grant momentum for Volt Switch. Maybe another set like spikes/whirlwind/ruination/eq in addition to having wish support from Scream Tail?

ANOTHER OPTION
View attachment 464680

252+ Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

LOL SCARF DUGTRIO

TO BE CONTINUED
Do u really want specs on it instead of lo just so that u don't have to be restricted to a particular move LO >> specs from what I can see
 
Caveat that I'm not an especially amazing ubers player, so take all this with a grain of salt.

Pre-Home, there will be maybe 3 or 4 mons on the immediate banlist so I don't think it makes a huge amount of sense to think about banning one or even two of them from Ubers.

Thinking mostly of post-Home, I don't think we can really assume Choice items on these, for the same reason Zekrom doesn't generally carry one: all three of their STABs have common immunities, so they need the flexibility. U-turn and Volt Switch make me think they're best used as hit-and-run wallbreakers; they don't have the speed to sweep post-Home. They're fast, but scarf is a liability on them, they need to run Agility to boost their speed, and there are a lot of threats in the meta that are faster: Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, scarf Chien-Pao, Zacian, Calyrex-S, and Scarf Kyogre to name a few. The number of offensive checks they have lends itself to a playstyle minimally liable to grant free turns by being Choice locked or incorrectly predicting with a setup move.

There are two major unknowns for how the meta will shape up: hazards and Arceus. Which Arceus form is most common heavily depends on what is on greatest need of defensive checks, but also on what actually effectively checks them. I'm not sold on Arceus-Dark solving the Calyrex problem because Calyrex learns Pollen Puff, and with Yveltal getting dexited for the time being, it can spare the moveslot to use it. With non-normal Arceus being immune to Trick, it'll need to use more blunt forms of counterplay. For my money, I think Ekiller Arceus will be the biggest problem for Calyrex and will be a serious barrier to it carrying Choice items. Besides Normal Arceus and maybe Ting-Lu, I don't see much in the meta that can handle Calyrex defensively, so I won't be surprised if teams start dealing with it more proactively by making sure it never gets a turn to Substitute or set up. Hazards are a difficult one: SR has gotten great distribution including Rayquaza of all things, and Groudon gets spikes now (but may be short of opportunities to use them with the amount of offensive pressure being put on it), while Sticky Web has no good users and most importantly Defog has only one.

Which brings me on to the other two and a half new entrants to Ubers: the Origin forms of the Sinnoh trio. It's been discovered that the Orbs work essentially as key items that can be held: attaching the item transforms them (actually there are separate items that do this but the effect is the same and the orbs still exist), but you can detach it without losing the form; attaching it again deactivates the Origin form.

Dialga and Palkia's origin forms are clearly superior to their base forms, but I still think power creep has been unkind to them: 680 BST mons without a particularly good ability and a fairly "balanced" stat distribution aren't good enough without attributes such as meta-relevant typings keeping them in play. Dialga doesn't have great typing against the biggest threats, and Palkia is just hopelessly power crept by other things while also suffering from there being two very strong sun setters in the meta and only one good rain setter. There's just a clear power bracket difference here.

Giratina, despite not being new, seems like the best beneficiary of this change. It's the only Pokemon that can learn Defog that is remotely Ubers viable, and it can now run its Levitating Origin form with a more useful item like Leftovers. It seems like one of the Pokemon most able to make interesting use of Terastal, especially since turning it into Electric gives it zero weaknesses and a resistance to a very relevant threat. (Terastal in general seems to be being overlooked as an option for defensive checks.) I can see it being highly used for these reasons alone, but teams that can't make space for it are just going to have to find other ways to deal with hazards, whether it's using HDB more or putting enough immediate pressure on the opponent that they struggle to get hazards in play to begin with. Koraidon benefits from resistance to Stealth Rock, but chip damage is a serious concern otherwise between possible Life Orb recoil and Flare Blitz recoil vs fairies; Miraidon pretty much needs HDB once hazards are up if it wants to use Volt Switch. I can see offensive pressure being lessened across the tier by the need to more carefully manage chip damage (making LO recoil more of an issue) alongside three of the top threats having greatly diminished ability to rely on Choice items.

Two Pokemon I'm having real trouble evaluating. Zacian got nerfed into the ground, but it does have a nice matchup with the two new box legends, outspeeding and OHKOing comfortably. I can see it using Terastal to deal with specific threats (e.g. Dark to lure Calyrex), but it's hard to theorycraft when the mon has so fundamentally changed; it might be something you want to save as a wincon with SD because its ability is one time only now, but it might also be that you treat the ability as a nice-to-have because it's needed to offensively check things. The attack nerf might also be enough to make it lose some important matchups.

The other is Rayquaza. It gets SR and U-turn, which in theory are great for it. On the other hand, using it as part of a VoltTurn core with the other two legends that get pivots means tripling up on dragons which seems like a questionable choice. I feel like the new dragons might mean it's too slow to use U-turn effectively (given it's not very durable and is SR weak), and losing V-create is a real shame for its breaking power. Negating weather might have some uses, but it doesn't exactly have a great matchup against Koraidon or Scarf Kyogre without prediction. Maybe I'm underestimating how good a breaker it is, especially now that its only real competition as a Dragon Dance user is Roaring Moon (which hits harder under Sun and is faster, but has arguably worse typing and can't run mixed sets).

EDIT to add my post-Home team idea. Definitely needs work so feedback welcome, appreciating we can only theorcraft right now.

Koraidon @ Life Orb or something (tera Fire)
Jolly 252 Spe 252 Atk
- Collision Course/Close Combat
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn

Miraidon @ Heavy Duty Boots (tera Electric)
Timid 252 SpA 252 Spe
- Electro Drift
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat
- Volt Switch

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf (tera Water)
Timid 252 Spa 252 Spe
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Groudon @ Leftovers (tera Ground or Dragon)
Whatever defensive spread ends up being needed, maximally focusing on Attack otherwise
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Claw

Zacian @ Rusted Sword (tera Dark)
Jolly 252 Atk 252 Spe
- Behemoth Blade
- Play Rough
- Night Slash
- Swords Dance/Close Combat

Calyrex @ Life Orb/Choice Specs (tera Ghost)
Timid 252 SpA 252 Spe
- Astral Barrage
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Pollen Puff
- Substitute/Nasty Plot/Draining Kiss

Calyrex set seems odd but it's because Arceus-Dark will almost certainly replace Yveltal as the main Calyrex check and Pollen Puff is your best option against it. Arceus-Dark is also immune to Trick so you need more direct counterplay. I'm not super convinced Calyrex can afford to be taking loads of chip damage, so Specs might be the play here and I can rely on Koraidon to deal with Arceus.

Zacian has Dark tera type so it can function as a Calyrex check -- shaky, but it's the only thing this team has for it and probably relies more on putting enough immediate offensive pressure on the opponent that they don't get any setup opportunities. Night Slash for extra STAB in this scenario and more reliably beating Calyrex, but you might be able to safely forgo it. With Intrepid Sword only working once per battle, it ideally wants to be staying in as long as possible, hence Swords Dance. These are your main wincons. I haven't done the calcs for whether Zacian's stat nerf hurts it enough to make you want to replace it with something else.

Koraidon and Miraidon focus on hitting hard and then pivoting out. Koraidon benefits from a Rock resistance, but Miraidon wants HDB to do its job properly. Tera fire on Koraidon for burn protection, but it's a risk with Rocks unless you run HDB on it aswell. The fact that all three of their combined STABs have common type immunities makes Choice items a massive liability on these two, IMO.

Groudon sits there being bulky and setting hazards, but also puts offensive pressure on. It runs Dragon Claw purely for Giratina-O; it no longer gets Heat Crash, and even if you wanted to run Fire Punch, its overlap with Precipice Blades means it has no relevant targets. Given that this team has no defoggers, you want to be winning the hazards game, so I think it's important that everything can offensively pressure Giratina (the only thing that learns Defog and is even remotely viable.) Groudon still just punches holes with Precipice Blades in the event that your opponent isn't worth playing the hazards game with (e.g. they have loads of mons with HDB on), so I think Tera Ground is the play, but hitting Koraidon and Giratina harder might be something you want to prioritise.

Scarf Kyogre is pretty self-explanatory (running Timid to outspeed Calyrex-S) and still beats face, especially with Tera Water, but I'm not sure how good it will be at its job with Groudon *and* Koraidon everywhere and hazard control options being quite limited. You might want to nix it for Arceus-Dark or potentially Rayquaza to go all-in on VoltTurn as a strategy while pulling double duty as a potential setup sweeper (it's now the only thing that gets Dragon Dance). In theory you can screw Koraidon over by disabling the weather, but in practice this is only really useful if your opponent's Koraidon doesn't have dragon coverage (and depends on whether or not the two new box legends work such that disabling the field effect turns off their stat boosts). Rayquaza is hard to evaluate in this meta because it has a lot of tools but it also has pretty big 4MSS. Tripling up on Dragons seems like it also has the potential to be a massive liability.
 
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LouisIX

is a Tiering Contributor
UPL Champion
Zacian-C will be almost mandatory like Yveltal in SS as its like the only steel after ndm gone

Flutter Mane will force every single dragon to run roseli berry
&
Calyrex straight to AG without doubt I cant withstand flutter mane+calyrex shadow

Calyrex Ice is super good with agility and snow support
 
What sort of sets are people thinking for Flutter Mane? Max speed is basically mandatory without Scarf, but then you're getting the stat boost on speed. You could go Specs with Timid or Scarf with Modest depending on which stat you want to be able to reliably boost outside of sun. I suppose you could also run max speed, get the sun boost on speed and then rely on 135 SpA and a boosting item, but without any boosting moves it might struggle to hit important benchmarks.

With the Paradox mon boost being stronger than the boost Koraidon and Miraidon get themselves, and the fact that Band and Life Orb both have serious risks on Koraidon, I wonder if you might seriously want to run Heat Rock on it to buff your paradox mons more reliably. It might be overkill, especially since your opponent will also benefit from the buff *and* probably be setting it for you, but a loss of speed in particular seems like you won't want to get caught with your pants down when the 135-136 speed tier is so stupidly crowded this gen.

I haven't seen anyone talk about Chi-Yu; if it sees play at all, I expect Scarf to be by far the best set. 135 special attack plus its ability plus Sun on its fire attacks seems plenty enough to buff its offensive power into the stratosphere; its main problems are getting outsped by every relevant threat without Scarf and its relatively bad typing for the meta, relying on choiced psychic coverage to beat Koraidon which is obviously a massive problem.
 
What sort of sets are people thinking for Flutter Mane? Max speed is basically mandatory without Scarf, but then you're getting the stat boost on speed. You could go Specs with Timid or Scarf with Modest depending on which stat you want to be able to reliably boost outside of sun. I suppose you could also run max speed, get the sun boost on speed and then rely on 135 SpA and a boosting item, but without any boosting moves it might struggle to hit important benchmarks.

With the Paradox mon boost being stronger than the boost Koraidon and Miraidon get themselves, and the fact that Band and Life Orb both have serious risks on Koraidon, I wonder if you might seriously want to run Heat Rock on it to buff your paradox mons more reliably. It might be overkill, especially since your opponent will also benefit from the buff *and* probably be setting it for you, but a loss of speed in particular seems like you won't want to get caught with your pants down when the 135-136 speed tier is so stupidly crowded this gen.

I haven't seen anyone talk about Chi-Yu; if it sees play at all, I expect Scarf to be by far the best set. 135 special attack plus its ability plus Sun on its fire attacks seems plenty enough to buff its offensive power into the stratosphere; its main problems are getting outsped by every relevant threat without Scarf and its relatively bad typing for the meta, relying on choiced psychic coverage to beat Koraidon which is obviously a massive problem.
252 SpA Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Koraidon in Sun: 208-246 (60.9 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (If Beads of Ruin drops SDef the equivalent of 1 stage)
252 SpA Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Koraidon in Sun: 186-219 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (If Beads of Ruin reduces SDef by 33%, the same rate that Aura abilities boost Fairy/Dark moves, respectively)
Chi-Yu most certainly has the juice to smoke Koraidon in the Sun even without a boosting item or nature. Scarf seems like a nasty cleaner in the late game.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
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Looking through the painfully small amount of defensive answers to Koraidon, I got one other Pokemon in mind: Great Tusk

Thanks to Protosynthesis, a phys def Great Tusk can facetank some of Koraidon's heaviest hits and retaliate with Play Rough. Being part Ground can also dissuade Koraidon from Terastalizing into a Fire-type, and its decently beefy HP stat means it can at least cause significant recoil if Koraidon commits to it. With that said, +2 Life Orb Koraidon can still OHKO Great Tusk after Terastallizing into a Fire-type, but it'll lose half of its HP in recoil + LO in the process.

Boosts assumed here include 1.3x for Orichalcum Pulse and 1.5x for Protosynthesis, and 1.33x for superstab Tera

252 Atk Choice Band Koraidon Close Combat (156 BP) vs. (+1) 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 156-184 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Fire Tera Koraidon Flare Blitz (156 BP) vs. (+1) 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk in Sun: 407-480 (93.7 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Fighting Tera Koraidon Close Combat (156 BP) vs. (+1) 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 361-426 (83.1 - 98.1%)

4 Atk Great Tusk Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Koraidon: 292-344 (85.6 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

If nothing else, with great STABs, 131 base Atk, and the rare Rapid Spin, Great Tusk might be able to offer more than just being a Koraidon answer.
 

Death Phenomeno

I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
is a Contributor Alumnus
Apologies if this isn't the correct place to ask.

Is the Legend Plate obtainable? I know Arceus is post-HOME, but I've heard conflicting reports about whether the plate is in the game or not.
 
Two Pokemon I'm having real trouble evaluating. Zacian got nerfed into the ground, but it does have a nice matchup with the two new box legends, outspeeding and OHKOing comfortably. I can see it using Terastal to deal with specific threats (e.g. Dark to lure Calyrex), but it's hard to theorycraft when the mon has so fundamentally changed; it might be something you want to save as a wincon with SD because its ability is one time only now, but it might also be that you treat the ability as a nice-to-have because it's needed to offensively check things. The attack nerf might also be enough to make it lose some important matchups.
At the end of the day, Zacian-C is still a Fairy/Steel type with an automatic +1 Attack boost when it switches in. Think of how good Xerneas is, yet how it can only really use Geomancy once thanks to Power Herb. I can see Zacian-C being played in a similar way and probably achieving S or S- rank in Ubers. It has a better typing and stats than Xerneas and a similar gimmick in that it gets a one-time boost that needs to be played carefully.

The other is Rayquaza. It gets SR and U-turn, which in theory are great for it. On the other hand, using it as part of a VoltTurn core with the other two legends that get pivots means tripling up on dragons which seems like a questionable choice. I feel like the new dragons might mean it's too slow to use U-turn effectively (given it's not very durable and is SR weak), and losing V-create is a real shame for its breaking power. Negating weather might have some uses, but it doesn't exactly have a great matchup against Koraidon or Scarf Kyogre without prediction. Maybe I'm underestimating how good a breaker it is, especially now that its only real competition as a Dragon Dance user is Roaring Moon (which hits harder under Sun and is faster, but has arguably worse typing and can't run mixed sets).
I feel like U-Turn is great for Ray, especially on scarfed sets where it can revenge kill the new Dragon-type box legends (if they themselves aren't scarfed). SR weakness is a big caveat, though, especially since most teams will need to run one of either Koraidon or Miraidon along with Giratina-O to get rid of hazards (which is even more important for Ray). Losing V-Create won't be a big deal for mixed and scarfed sets since they can run Overheat instead (or even enhance it with tera fire if it needs a Fire-type nuke that badly).

I have a feeling that scarfed Ray will be great. It can run tera flying Dragon Ascent as its main nuke, plus Draco for Miraidon and other dragons not named Koraidon (since it's Flying-weak anyway), Overheat for Steels (especially Zacian-C), and U-Turn for momentum. You could also run Espeed in one of the moveslots though the scarf reduces the need for it somewhat, unless you're REALLY scared of scarfed Koraidon/Miraidon.
 
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