Metagame [SPOILERS] Scarlet & Violet OU Discussion [BAN LIST POST 626]

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ironwater

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Hey everyone!

Now that we have a decent amount of reliable information about the new and returning Pokemons in Scarlet & Violet with their stats/abilities/moves, it's time to open a first discussion thread about SV OU. This thread is meant to discuss about all this from a competitive and OU perspective. Keep in mind that there's still some information (like details on new moves, full movepool, some mechanics details) we don't have and that this thread is mainly about theorizing what will be good in SV OU based on what we know yet. Thus, don't forget that we will need to see everything in practice to really judge all the news brought by Scarler & Violet. Also, please stay respectful with each other, even in case of a disagreement.

You'll find just below a bunch of links/screens with most of the competitive relevant information we have as of now.

Wyrdeer-0 - 103/105/72/105/75/65 (Total: 525) - Normal/Psychic - Intimidate/Frisk/Sap Sipper
Kleavor-0 - 70/130/95/45/75/85 (Total: 500) - Bug/Rock - Swarm/Sheer Force/Sharpness
Ursaluna-0 - 130/140/105/45/80/50 (Total: 550) - Ground/Normal - Guts/Bulletproof/Unnerve
Basculegion-0 - 120/112/65/80/75/78 (Total: 530) - Water/Ghost - Swift Swim/Adaptability/Mold Breaker
Basculegion-1 - 120/92/65/100/75/78 (Total: 530) - Water/Ghost - Swift Swim/Adaptability/Mold Breaker
Sneasler-0 - 80/130/60/40/80/120 (Total: 510) - Fighting/Poison - Pressure/Unburden/Poison Touch
Overqwil-0 - 85/115/95/65/65/85 (Total: 510) - Dark/Poison - Poison Point/Swift Swim/Intimidate
Enamorus-0 - 74/115/70/135/80/106 (Total: 580) - Fairy/Flying - Cute Charm/Cute Charm/Contrary
Enamorus-1 - 74/115/110/135/100/46 (Total: 580) - Fairy/Flying - Overcoat/Overcoat/Overcoat
Sprigatito-0 - 40/61/54/45/45/65 (Total: 310) - Grass/Grass - Overgrow/Overgrow/Protean
Floragato-0 - 61/80/63/60/63/83 (Total: 410) - Grass/Grass - Overgrow/Overgrow/Protean
Meowscarada-0 - 76/110/70/81/70/123 (Total: 530) - Grass/Dark - Overgrow/Overgrow/Protean
Fuecoco-0 - 67/45/59/63/40/36 (Total: 310) - Fire/Fire - Blaze/Blaze/Unaware
Crocalor-0 - 81/55/78/90/58/49 (Total: 411) - Fire/Fire - Blaze/Blaze/Unaware
Skeledirge-0 - 104/75/100/110/75/66 (Total: 530) - Fire/Ghost - Blaze/Blaze/Unaware
Quaxly-0 - 55/65/45/50/45/50 (Total: 310) - Water/Water - Torrent/Torrent/Moxie
Quaxwell-0 - 70/85/65/65/60/65 (Total: 410) - Water/Water - Torrent/Torrent/Moxie
Quaquaval-0 - 85/120/80/85/75/85 (Total: 530) - Water/Fighting - Torrent/Torrent/Moxie
Lechonk-0 - 54/45/40/35/45/35 (Total: 254) - Normal/Normal - Aroma Veil/Gluttony/Thick Fat
Oinkologne-0 - 110/100/75/59/80/65 (Total: 489) - Normal/Normal - Lingering Aroma/Gluttony/Thick Fat
Oinkologne-1 - 115/90/70/59/90/65 (Total: 489) - Normal/Normal - Aroma Veil/Gluttony/Thick Fat
Dudunsparce-0 - 125/100/80/85/75/55 (Total: 520) - Normal/Normal - Serene Grace/Run Away/Rattled
Dudunsparce-1 - 125/100/80/85/75/55 (Total: 520) - Normal/Normal - Serene Grace/Run Away/Rattled
Tarountula-0 - 35/41/45/29/40/20 (Total: 210) - Bug/Bug - Insomnia/Insomnia/Stakeout
Spidops-0 - 60/79/92/52/86/35 (Total: 404) - Bug/Bug - Insomnia/Insomnia/Stakeout
Nymble-0 - 33/46/40/21/25/45 (Total: 210) - Bug/Bug - Swarm/Swarm/Tinted Lens
Lokix-0 - 71/102/78/52/55/92 (Total: 450) - Bug/Dark - Swarm/Swarm/Tinted Lens
Rellor-0 - 41/50/60/31/58/30 (Total: 270) - Bug/Bug - Compound Eyes/Compound Eyes/Shed Skin
Rabsca-0 - 75/50/85/115/100/45 (Total: 470) - Bug/Psychic - Synchronize/Synchronize/Telepathy
Greavard-0 - 50/61/60/30/55/34 (Total: 290) - Ghost/Ghost - Pickup/Pickup/Fluffy
Houndstone-0 - 72/101/100/50/97/68 (Total: 488) - Ghost/Ghost - Sand Rush/Sand Rush/Fluffy
Flittle-0 - 30/35/30/55/30/75 (Total: 255) - Psychic/Psychic - Anticipation/Frisk/Speed Boost
Espathra-0 - 95/60/60/101/60/105 (Total: 481) - Psychic/Psychic - Opportunist/Frisk/Speed Boost
Farigiraf-0 - 120/90/70/110/70/60 (Total: 520) - Normal/Psychic - Cud Chew/Armor Tail/Sap Sipper
Wiglett-0 - 10/55/25/35/25/95 (Total: 245) - Water/Water - Gooey/Rattled/Sand Veil
Wugtrio-0 - 35/100/50/50/70/120 (Total: 425) - Water/Water - Gooey/Rattled/Sand Veil
Dondozo-0 - 150/100/115/65/65/35 (Total: 530) - Water/Water - Unaware/Oblivious/Water Veil
Veluza-0 - 90/102/73/78/65/70 (Total: 478) - Water/Psychic - Mold Breaker/Mold Breaker/Sharpness
Finizen-0 - 70/45/40/45/40/75 (Total: 315) - Water/Water - Water Veil/Water Veil/Water Veil
Palafin-0 - 100/70/72/53/62/100 (Total: 457) - Water/Water - Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero
Palafin-1 - 100/160/97/106/87/100 (Total: 650) - Water/Water - Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero
Smoliv-0 - 41/35/45/58/51/30 (Total: 260) - Grass/Normal - Early Bird/Early Bird/Harvest
Dolliv-0 - 52/53/60/78/78/33 (Total: 354) - Grass/Normal - Early Bird/Early Bird/Harvest
Arboliva-0 - 78/69/90/125/109/39 (Total: 510) - Grass/Normal - Seed Sower/Seed Sower/Harvest
Capsakid-0 - 50/62/40/62/40/50 (Total: 304) - Grass/Grass - Chlorophyll/Insomnia/Klutz
Scovillain-0 - 65/108/65/108/65/75 (Total: 486) - Grass/Fire - Chlorophyll/Insomnia/Moody
Tadbulb-0 - 61/31/41/59/35/45 (Total: 272) - Electric/Electric - Own Tempo/Static/Damp
Bellibolt-0 - 109/64/91/103/83/45 (Total: 495) - Electric/Electric - Electromorphosis/Static/Damp
Varoom-0 - 45/70/63/30/45/47 (Total: 300) - Steel/Poison - Overcoat/Overcoat/Slow Start
Revavroom-0 - 80/119/90/54/67/90 (Total: 500) - Steel/Poison - Overcoat/Overcoat/Filter
Orthworm-0 - 70/85/145/60/55/65 (Total: 480) - Steel/Steel - Earth Eater/Earth Eater/Sand Veil
Tandemaus-0 - 50/50/45/40/45/75 (Total: 305) - Normal/Normal - Run Away/Pickup/Own Tempo
Maushold-0 - 74/75/70/65/75/111 (Total: 470) - Normal/Normal - Friend Guard/Cheek Pouch/Technician
Maushold-1 - 74/75/70/65/75/111 (Total: 470) - Normal/Normal - Friend Guard/Cheek Pouch/Technician
Cetoddle-0 - 108/68/45/30/40/43 (Total: 334) - Ice/Ice - Thick Fat/Snow Cloak/Sheer Force
Cetitan-0 - 170/113/65/45/55/73 (Total: 521) - Ice/Ice - Thick Fat/Slush Rush/Sheer Force
Frigibax-0 - 65/75/45/35/45/55 (Total: 320) - Dragon/Ice - Thermal Exchange/Thermal Exchange/Ice Body
Arctibax-0 - 90/95/66/45/65/62 (Total: 423) - Dragon/Ice - Thermal Exchange/Thermal Exchange/Ice Body
Baxcalibur-0 - 115/145/92/75/86/87 (Total: 600) - Dragon/Ice - Thermal Exchange/Thermal Exchange/Ice Body
Tatsugiri-0 - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) - Dragon/Water - Commander/Commander/Storm Drain
Tatsugiri-1 - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) - Dragon/Water - Commander/Commander/Storm Drain
Tatsugiri-2 - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) - Dragon/Water - Commander/Commander/Storm Drain
Cyclizar-0 - 70/95/65/85/65/121 (Total: 501) - Dragon/Normal - Shed Skin/Shed Skin/Regenerator
Pawmi-0 - 45/50/20/40/25/60 (Total: 240) - Electric/Electric - Static/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Pawmo-0 - 60/75/40/50/40/85 (Total: 350) - Electric/Fighting - Volt Absorb/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Pawmot-0 - 70/115/70/70/60/105 (Total: 490) - Electric/Fighting - Volt Absorb/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Wattrel-0 - 40/40/35/55/40/70 (Total: 280) - Electric/Flying - Wind Power/Volt Absorb/Competitive
Kilowattrel-0 - 70/70/60/105/60/125 (Total: 490) - Electric/Flying - Wind Power/Volt Absorb/Competitive
Bombirdier-0 - 70/103/85/60/85/82 (Total: 485) - Flying/Dark - Big Pecks/Keen Eye/Rocky Payload
Squawkabilly-0 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Guts
Squawkabilly-1 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Guts
Squawkabilly-2 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Sheer Force
Squawkabilly-3 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Sheer Force
Flamigo-0 - 82/115/74/75/64/90 (Total: 500) - Flying/Fighting - Scrappy/Tangled Feet/Costar
Klawf-0 - 70/100/115/35/55/75 (Total: 450) - Rock/Rock - Anger Shell/Shell Armor/Regenerator
Nacli-0 - 55/55/75/35/35/25 (Total: 280) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
Naclstack-0 - 60/60/100/35/65/35 (Total: 355) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
Garganacl-0 - 100/100/130/45/90/35 (Total: 500) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
Glimmet-0 - 48/35/42/105/60/60 (Total: 350) - Rock/Poison - Toxic Debris/Toxic Debris/Corrosion
Glimmora-0 - 83/55/90/130/81/86 (Total: 525) - Rock/Poison - Toxic Debris/Toxic Debris/Corrosion
Shroodle-0 - 40/65/35/40/35/75 (Total: 290) - Poison/Normal - Unburden/Pickpocket/Prankster
Grafaiai-0 - 63/95/65/80/72/110 (Total: 485) - Poison/Normal - Unburden/Poison Touch/Prankster
Fidough-0 - 37/55/70/30/55/65 (Total: 312) - Fairy/Fairy - Own Tempo/Own Tempo/Klutz
Dachsbun-0 - 57/80/115/50/80/95 (Total: 477) - Fairy/Fairy - Well-Baked Body/Well-Baked Body/Aroma Veil
Maschiff-0 - 60/78/60/40/51/51 (Total: 340) - Dark/Dark - Intimidate/Run Away/Stakeout
Mabosstiff-0 - 80/120/90/60/70/85 (Total: 505) - Dark/Dark - Intimidate/Guard Dog/Stakeout
Bramblin-0 - 40/65/30/45/35/60 (Total: 275) - Grass/Ghost - Wind Rider/Wind Rider/Infiltrator
Brambleghast-0 - 55/115/70/80/70/90 (Total: 480) - Grass/Ghost - Wind Rider/Wind Rider/Infiltrator
Gimmighoul-0 - 45/30/70/75/70/10 (Total: 300) - Ghost/Ghost - Rattled/Rattled/Rattled
Gimmighoul-1 - 45/30/25/75/45/80 (Total: 300) - Ghost/Ghost - Run Away/Run Away/Run Away
Gholdengo-0 - 87/60/95/133/91/84 (Total: 550) - Steel/Ghost - Good as Gold/Good as Gold/Good as Gold
Great Tusk-0 - 115/131/131/53/53/87 (Total: 570) - Ground/Fighting - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Brute Bonnet-0 - 111/127/99/79/99/55 (Total: 570) - Grass/Dark - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Sandy Shocks-0 - 85/81/97/121/85/101 (Total: 570) - Electric/Ground - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Scream Tail-0 - 115/65/99/65/115/111 (Total: 570) - Fairy/Psychic - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Flutter Mane-0 - 55/55/55/135/135/135 (Total: 570) - Ghost/Fairy - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Slither Wing-0 - 85/135/79/85/105/81 (Total: 570) - Bug/Fighting - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Roaring Moon-0 - 105/139/71/55/101/119 (Total: 590) - Dragon/Dark - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Iron Treads-0 - 90/112/120/72/70/106 (Total: 570) - Ground/Steel - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Moth-0 - 80/70/60/140/110/110 (Total: 570) - Fire/Poison - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Hands-0 - 154/140/108/50/68/50 (Total: 570) - Fighting/Electric - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Jugulis-0 - 94/80/86/122/80/108 (Total: 570) - Dark/Flying - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Thorns-0 - 100/134/110/70/84/72 (Total: 570) - Rock/Electric - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Bundle-0 - 56/80/114/124/60/136 (Total: 570) - Ice/Water - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Valiant-0 - 74/130/90/120/60/116 (Total: 590) - Fairy/Fighting - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Ting-Lu-0 - 165/110/130/50/80/45 (Total: 580) - Dark/Ground - Vessel of Ruin/Vessel of Ruin/Vessel of Ruin
Chien-Pao-0 - 80/130/80/90/65/135 (Total: 580) - Dark/Ice - Sword of Ruin/Sword of Ruin/Sword of Ruin
Wo-Chien-0 - 85/90/100/100/135/70 (Total: 580) - Dark/Grass - Tablets of Ruin/Tablets of Ruin/Tablets of Ruin
Chi-Yu-0 - 55/80/80/145/120/100 (Total: 580) - Dark/Fire - Beads of Ruin/Beads of Ruin/Beads of Ruin
Koraidon-0 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-1 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-2 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-3 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-4 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Miraidon-0 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-1 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-2 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-3 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-4 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Tinkatink-0 - 50/45/45/35/64/58 (Total: 297) - Fairy/Steel - Mold Breaker/Own Tempo/Pickpocket
Tinkatuff-0 - 65/55/55/45/82/78 (Total: 380) - Fairy/Steel - Mold Breaker/Own Tempo/Pickpocket
Tinkaton-0 - 85/75/77/70/105/94 (Total: 506) - Fairy/Steel - Mold Breaker/Own Tempo/Pickpocket
Charcadet-0 - 40/50/40/50/40/35 (Total: 255) - Fire/Fire - Flash Fire/Flash Fire/Flame Body
Armarouge-0 - 85/60/100/125/80/75 (Total: 525) - Fire/Psychic - Flash Fire/Flash Fire/Weak Armor
Ceruledge-0 - 75/125/80/60/100/85 (Total: 525) - Fire/Ghost - Flash Fire/Flash Fire/Weak Armor
Toedscool-0 - 40/40/35/50/100/70 (Total: 335) - Ground/Grass - Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might
Toedscruel-0 - 80/70/65/80/120/100 (Total: 515) - Ground/Grass - Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might
Kingambit-0 - 100/135/120/60/85/50 (Total: 550) - Dark/Steel - Defiant/Supreme Overlord/Pressure
Clodsire-0 - 130/75/60/45/100/20 (Total: 430) - Poison/Ground - Poison Point/Water Absorb/Unaware
Annihilape-0 - 110/115/80/50/90/90 (Total: 535) - Fighting/Ghost - Vital Spirit/Inner Focus/Defiant
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Abilities
Protean/Libero
: Appear to activate once per switch - Posted here
Intrepid Sword/Dauntless Shield: Activate once per match - Posted here

Changes to other abilities we thought were changed: Intimidate (No change), Contrary (No Change), Regenerator (No change in text, not tested mechanically)

Other Abilities: Found here and dotted through the thread

Ancient Paradoxes share an ability called: Protosynthesis - Boosts the Pokémon's most proficient stat in Harsh Sunlight or if the Pokémon is holding a Booster Energy - Image here
Future Paradoxes share an ability called: Quark Drive - Boosts the Pokémon's most proficient stat on Electric Terrain or if the Pokémon is holding a Booster Energy
Rest, Roost and Recover have both been reduced to 5PP. We presume this affects other healing moves too.
List of removed moves: https://pastebin.com/eReqHWpi
Also, Scald is most likely only learnable on Volcanion.
Hail has been replaced by Snowing - As far as we can tell, all references to Hail have now been replaced with Snowing. Snowing gives +Def and + SpD to Ice types and does not appear to do chip damage.

A big thank to Orange Islands people for gathering all these infos, don't hesitate to check the datamines thread there for more infos.

Happy posting!
 
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1LDK

I'm exhausted
is a Top Team Rater
So I want to start with not the biggest change to the meta, but one that ive always wanted
the S N O W I N G buff
do you lads think this will finally let gamefreak fullfill the dream of b u l k y i c e t y p e?
I honestly think not, just slap gyro ball on ferro and we are done here
but im optimistic about at the very least having some impact on the metagame, current OU only has 3 ice types, Weavile (who is frail) Ninetales (who could use it on the special side) and arctozolt, who i have never used, but seems usaable with 90/90/80
 

Aberforth

is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Ubers Leader
There are 7 mons who, according the to level up moves that have been leaked, can legally learn defog unless it becomes an Egg move. 2 of those 7 are Giratina, and 3 of them are Rufflet, Braviary, and Hisuian Braviary. The other two are Hisuian Lilligant and Frosmoth.

I really hope Boots are in this gen.
 
So I want to start with not the biggest change to the meta, but one that ive always wanted
the S N O W I N G buff
do you lads think this will finally let gamefreak fullfill the dream of b u l k y i c e t y p e?
I honestly think not, just slap gyro ball on ferro and we are done here
but im optimistic about at the very least having some impact on the metagame, current OU only has 3 ice types, Weavile (who is frail) Ninetales (who could use it on the special side) and arctozolt, who i have never used, but seems usaable with 90/90/80
There's also the new "Chilly Reception" move that sets Snow and then pivots out. Looks like it could be the dominant weather this Gen, based on my enormous experience.
 
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There are 7 mons who, according the to level up moves that have been leaked, can legally learn defog unless it becomes an Egg move. 2 of those 7 are Giratina, and 3 of them are Rufflet, Braviary, and Hisuian Braviary. The other two are Hisuian Lilligant and Frosmoth.

I really hope Boots are in this gen.
Unless I'm blind Defog isn't a TM this gen meaning that transfer mons are our only hope for non offensive hazard/terrain/screens removal right?
 
So I want to start with not the biggest change to the meta, but one that ive always wanted
the S N O W I N G buff
do you lads think this will finally let gamefreak fullfill the dream of b u l k y i c e t y p e?
I honestly think not, just slap gyro ball on ferro and we are done here
but im optimistic about at the very least having some impact on the metagame, current OU only has 3 ice types, Weavile (who is frail) Ninetales (who could use it on the special side) and arctozolt, who i have never used, but seems usaable with 90/90/80
snow looks like a good way of enabling slush rush sweepers, based off how it + aurora veil will make it a lot easier for them to setup and not get revenge killed. no arctozolt though, only options are beartic and cetitan. beartic is kinda crappy but maybe useable, cetitian has good stats for it but has a really shallow level up movepool. hopefully it gets some good tms and egg moves. it also might be hard to use a snow team if sun ends up taking off cuz of the past paradox mons
 
snow looks like a good way of enabling slush rush sweepers, based off how it + aurora veil will make it a lot easier for them to setup and not get revenge killed. no arctozolt though, only options are beartic and cetitan. beartic is kinda crappy but maybe useable, cetitian has good stats for it but has a really shallow level up movepool. hopefully it gets some good tms and egg moves. it also might be hard to use a snow team if sun ends up taking off cuz of the past paradox mons
In all likelihood Snow Teams/Sand Teams may be the only way to counter Sun Teams in a straight weather war.

What a turnaround from Gen 5 where rain and sand were dominant while sun and hail were not and now the opposite is true.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
If Garchomp still doesn't get dragon dance I'm legit gonna get one of thouse Oujia Board things. Regardless of that, thank Trigon that scald is no longer a tm. That is the single most disgusting move ever introduced and was a massive roadblock for physical attackers. Volcanion isn't even in the game right and that there are no longer transfer moves? I saw that in a youtube comment but I'm not sure if that's true. I don't know what to think about the recovery move pp nerf but as long as it makes stall miserable, I won't be mad

So I want to start with not the biggest change to the meta, but one that ive always wanted
the S N O W I N G buff
do you lads think this will finally let gamefreak fullfill the dream of b u l k y i c e t y p e?
I honestly think not, just slap gyro ball on ferro and we are done here
but im optimistic about at the very least having some impact on the metagame, current OU only has 3 ice types, Weavile (who is frail) Ninetales (who could use it on the special side) and arctozolt, who i have never used, but seems usaable with 90/90/80
If they do, then it's gonna be really hilarious how the worst defensive type becomes a defensive staple. Imagine an Avalugg getting a free boost to its spdef. I guess we're gonna have a lot of weather wars if that really is the case

--

That aside, really hope boots isn't in this gen anymore. If they nerfed the recovery moves then gamefreak probably realized boots is stupid. Also, what does that 0 and 1 mean on mons like Basculegion or Enamorus? And why does Mira and Koraidon have five forms? Have the reasoning for that been revealed?
 
Let's talk about a Pokemon that's flown a bit under the radar, Garganacl.
Code:
Garganacl - 100/100/130/45/90/35 (Total: 500) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
The longer you look at this mon, the better it looks. 100 Attack is nothing to get excited over, but 100/130/90 bulk is pretty darn good for a defensive mon. Pure Rock typing isn't great, but its ability Purifying Salt will go a long way toward fixing that:
Code:
Purifying Salt - The Pokémon’s pure salt protects it from status conditions and halves the damage taken from Ghost-type moves.
Seriously, what the heck is this ability. Total status immunity and a free Ghost resist? That's nothing short of amazing, especially for a mon with stats like these.

On top of that, its moveset looks solid even before TMs and egg moves. Offensively, it gets Stone Edge, Earthquake, Heavy Slam, and its signature move Salt Cure, which is a Fire Spin (BP unknown) that deals boosted damage to Steel and Water mons. Defensively, it gets Stealth Rock and Recover (nerfed but still useful!). Outside of Toxic and Knock, this is just about everything it could realistically want - a physically defensive set with EdgeQuake/SR/Recover is the most obvious way to run it, although that might change depending on how Salt Cure works. (e.g. does only the initial hit get boosted damage against Steel and Water mons, or does it deal more chip damage too? If so, oh boy...)

The bigger question is how viable it will be. Great physical bulk and immunity to status are two huge advantages, but they're partially offset by the pure Rock typing, which leaves it with three common weaknesses (especially EQ). The Ghost resist is also great, making this thing a decent physical Dragapult check for a few weeks before Terastal inevitably gets it banned, but it's no Tyranitar:
Code:
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garganacl: 289-342 (71.5 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
What does everyone else think? My gut says that it'll be decent, but not amazing--maybe somewhere in the ballpark of gen 8 Hippo. Things could swing one way or another depending on what the major threats in gen 9 are and on what the rest of its movepool looks like, though.
So I want to start with not the biggest change to the meta, but one that ive always wanted
the S N O W I N G buff
do you lads think this will finally let gamefreak fullfill the dream of b u l k y i c e t y p e?
I honestly think not, just slap gyro ball on ferro and we are done here
but im optimistic about at the very least having some impact on the metagame, current OU only has 3 ice types, Weavile (who is frail) Ninetales (who could use it on the special side) and arctozolt, who i have never used, but seems usaable with 90/90/80
The wild card here is Chilly Reception, the move that sets Snow and then immediately switches the user out. We still don't know what gets it. If it has good distribution, it'll have potential, especially since (I assume) setting snow and then immediately switching gives abusers an extra turn over Snow Warning.

If it gets bad distribution, Snow teams are going to be stuck with Abomasnow as their setter instead, which...yeah. Not ideal, especially since Torkoal is a decent switch-in and is probably going to be popular with all the Paradox mons running around.
 
The wild card here is Chilly Reception, the move that sets Snow and then immediately switches the user out. We still don't know what gets it. If it has good distribution, it'll have potential, especially since (I assume) setting snow and then immediately switching gives abusers an extra turn over Snow Warning.

If it gets bad distribution, Snow teams are going to be stuck with Abomasnow as their setter instead, which...yeah. Not ideal, especially since Torkoal is a decent switch-in and is probably going to be popular with all the Paradox mons running around.
i think i heard someone say that chien-pao gets it? not sure what they based that off of, it's not in their level up movepool so i'm guessing it must be a tutor move. assuming a decent number of ice mons get the move i think it'd make snow a decent option.

speaking of chien-pao, that mon being allowed in ou honestly sounds like it'll be a formality lol. it's somehow an even more broken weavile and basically has every move it could ever want already in its level up movepool, i imagine it'll be quickbanned pretty fast. chi-yu has a similar defense debuffing ability but it might be more balanced, the stabs are still great but its movepool (so far) seems less ridiculous. great stats though
 
Pretty bummed out about a few things

- no pursuit and no return :(
- Weavile+ for some reason
- no good physical electric attack once again
- move pools look extremely questionable
- some of these mons look way too insane, I know it will take time until we figure out what will happen exactly but that dolphin guy looks scary
- no stat buffs and some weird nerfs

Let's see what will happen. I think it's unfortunate that more and more times we have to ban shit because GF can't/don't want to balance. Would love to have a meta like gen 3 again were there wasn't anything too insane
 

Drifting

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is a Tiering Contributor
About time hazard-stack has a resurgence, gonna be fantastic setting up Rocks and Spikes with Kleavor and Samurott-H and the new Toxic Debris ability. With so few defoggers I'm hoping we can have a meta more similar to DPP/BW where hazard-stack, phasing and spinblocking are dominant

One mon i'm really interested in is Gholdengo. Its ghost typing lets it block spin and it's ability gives "full immunity to all status moves". Could this stop defog from activating, making it the ultimate hazard-stack pokemon? We will have to see.
 
This is going to be the 2nd worst generation of OU, by a landslide. The 8 PP Recover nerf is just murdering stall and bulky offense. Maybe balance can try to stay afloat, but I doubt it. Either way, here’s my prediction for the top 5:

1. Ting-Lu
…Jesus Christ. 160/135/80 bulk with special Intimidate. Also Ground/Dark. If this gets recovery, we have a new top 1 in Ubers as well. It’s unkillable, and the only thing that could kill it is the 2nd broken.

2. Flutter Mane
135 spatk and speed, with THAT typing? Man. This shit is insane. How are we ever going to deal with this? What beats it? Volcarona doesn’t, Ting-Lu doesn’t, Blissey is a fake check because it can just run Sub, this is a nightmare.

3. Volcarona
I’m sure a lot of people are confused about this. Volcarona in top 3? Why? Well, for one, we don’t have Heatran. But we still have Dragonite and Salamence and Toxapex! Those WOULD be checks, but a few problems. First up, Pex can’t even touch Volc without Scald. Effectively a fake check. Then there’s Dragonite and Salamence, which have the slight issue of being demolished by Tera Blast Ice. Want to go Bulkarona and get an immunity to blob TWaves? What about Tera Steel Safeguard? This mon is everything.

4. Dragonite
Dragonite is another incredible Tera abuser! Unlike the first 3, though, this one is balanced. With Tera Normal Extreme Speed, it’s probably the best revenge killer in the tier once Flutter Mane gets banned. It also beats Volcarona with Tera Normal, being the only mon to do so aside from Skeledirge. Incredible overall, probably mandatory for balance.

5. Dragapult
No surprises here. Dragapult is good in a tier without Ferrothorn or Heatran, what a surprise. What more is there to say here? It’s DRAGAPULT. Run the calcs on Tera Specs Draco, you’ll realize.

In short: BAN TERA EVERYTHING BECOMES SO BROKEN LMFAOOOOOOO
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
This is going to be the 2nd worst generation of OU, by a landslide. The 8 PP Recover nerf is just murdering stall and bulky offense. Maybe balance can try to stay afloat, but I doubt it. Either way, here’s my prediction for the top 5:

3. Volcarona
I’m sure a lot of people are confused about this. Volcarona in top 3? Why? Well, for one, we don’t have Heatran. But we still have Dragonite and Salamence and Toxapex! Those WOULD be checks, but a few problems. First up, Pex can’t even touch Volc without Scald. Effectively a fake check. Then there’s Dragonite and Salamence, which have the slight issue of being demolished by Tera Blast Ice. Want to go Bulkarona and get an immunity to blob TWaves? What about Tera Steel Safeguard? This mon is everything.
At least Garchomp's in the game. Sharky boi can rock slide this thing to death with a spdef set
 
I'm really curious how Snowstorm will go and this is the first time I've felt interested in playing competitively since Gen 4 was current. The Dark Legendaries look kind of scary at a glance so they'll probably be where I start experimenting in OU. The changes to Snow are interesting and I wonder how big the loss of chip damage on it will be.
 
I am a silly goose and have to ask a two things

1) I've seen that the move pools of mons have been cut, but that shouldn't influence smogon tiers as mons can be just traded from prior gens to gen 9, right?
2) similarily, is the current list of available mons just the mons you can get before Home? If so, will we have a meta pre-home and then post-home add the mons that have lacked before?
 

Ruft

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I am a silly goose and have to ask a two things

1) I've seen that the move pools of mons have been cut, but that shouldn't influence smogon tiers as mons can be just traded from prior gens to gen 9, right?
2) similarily, is the current list of available mons just the mons you can get before Home? If so, will we have a meta pre-home and then post-home add the mons that have lacked before?
1) Transfer will only be possible when Pokemon Scarlet and Violet are compatible with Home from spring 2023 onwards, so no, it would in fact influence Smogon tiers.
2) We will start off with a pre-Home metagame like we did in Sword and Shield, yes.
 
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